Obama in 2004 on guns, God, and Democrats
posted at 11:12 am on April 19, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
More than three years before claiming that middle Americans “cling” to religion, guns, and bigotry because of economic turbulence, Barack Obama addressed the same themes with Charlie Rose on PBS. Three weeks after cruising to an easy victory over Alan Keyes, Obama told Rose that men went hunting and women went to church out of frustration with economic hardships because of the comfort of family and cultural traditions. He told Rose that Democrats had to learn to speak that kind of cultural language if they wanted to gain votes in these areas (h/t: BrianA):
Obama actually does a little better in this interview than he did three and a half years later in San Francisco. He doesn’t refer to bigotry or xenophobia at all, for instance, nor does he use the word “cling”. However, the construct still appears to follow the Thomas Frank assumption that voters who don’t vote for economic pandering are essentially idiots. Rose even mentions at the end how difficult it will be to keep the massive condescension it requires from becoming too obvious. Obama says, “Exactly” — but three years later, failed to heed Rose’s warning.
Ironically, at the same time, two columns in the New York Times, of all places, also challenge the Frankian assumptions of irrationality of Kansas rubes. Both Paul Krugman and Larry Bartels note that liberal elites also vote against their economic interests when they support higher taxes and redistributionism (h/t: Scott M). Clearly, the impetus for political philosophy doesn’t come strictly from economics, and given the evidence, not even primarily from economics. Rather, economics provides one battleground for competition between political philosophies, which decades and centuries of voting patterns prove.
The reliance on economics as the basis for political determinism serves as the basis for Marxist thought. It runs in opposition to the American experiment, which arose from isolation from the British political system more than any other impetus. The founding documents of the nation barely mention economics at all, with references only to minting currency and regulating interstate commerce. The focus on economic determinism insults the intelligence of the entire spectrum of American voters, and once again calls into question Obama’s concepts of politics, American culture, and the breadth and depth of how America changed the world.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages:
Yeah, I brought this up in the original discussion when Talking Points Memo posted it. He does a lot better here explaining himself IMO.
And it’s funny you say “NY Times of all places” considering their board endorsed Hillary and their columnists have been against Obama since the beginning (Even Dowd at times, but she isn’t a fan of Clinton either). Has Krugman ever liked Obama?
Typhonsentra on April 19, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Elitist snob.
Squid Shark on April 19, 2008 at 11:27 AM
understatment of the year..
DaveC on April 19, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Ironically, contemporary Europe – you know, the place Democrats reletlessly cherish as the Promised Land(tm) – did indeed start from a purely economic definition, and the only glue that holds 500 million citizens of the European Union together is their common currency, given that all attempts at political unification were shattered at the polling booths.
Niko on April 19, 2008 at 11:30 AM
From each according to Obama to each according to Michelle.
Damn the reality and full speed aMarx!
profitsbeard on April 19, 2008 at 11:34 AM
I’m glad this turned out to be an extra-long election season, because it allows additional time for the message to penetrate to the American heartland about just how clueless Obama really is. This man clearly does not comprehend or appreciate who Americans are, and he is not fit to lead this country.
AZCoyote on April 19, 2008 at 11:35 AM
The short three minute excerpt is filled with “them” and “they” in a manner of anthropologists discussing a lost tribe of pygmies. The Democrats and their mouthpiece media are elitist swine. How could it be more obvious?
Kalapana on April 19, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Amen AZCoyote! This snob and his horrible ungrateful wife have no business near the White House!!!!!!!!!
Winebabe on April 19, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Typhonsentra,
Sorry I missed it when you first posted it. It’s tough to keep up with the comments at times!
Has Krugman ever liked Obama? If I read Krugman, I might know the answer to that question. ;-)
Ed Morrissey on April 19, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Part of Barry’s perceived snobbery can be equated with the same attitude of most democrats – simply that they think they are so much smarter that questioning begets arrogance. Clinton avoided it until Monica, but it’s been downhill from there. Their ad hominem perception that anyone who goes to church, keeps guns, hunts, etc. is a primitive and not worthy of serious consideration is why they fail to connect.
TinMan13 on April 19, 2008 at 11:47 AM
It also helps to actualy believe in that culture.
ThePrez on April 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Of course, Ed, you conveniently fail to mention how property ownership, along with race, was the determining criteria for voting rights in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. No vote for the rubes in the America of 1790.
I doubt Obama would disagree with you that there are a many other factors besides economics affecting the voting patterns of Americans, but in this game of dishonest ‘gotcha’ politics y’all enjoy playing, it’s much more fun to scream ‘Marxist’ and be done with it.
Grow Fins on April 19, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Yeah, as in liberal elite Fat Ted Kennedy sheltering his family money in an off shore trust that pays around 1% in annual taxes.
Or how about the Clintons donating over 10 million of their income to charity. Of course that happens to be their own charity.
Vote against their economic interest, my ass.
there it is on April 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM
B. Hussein Marx.
Its what he IS, people.
.
Bitter? Yup, the obama’s are bitter.
Luckily we have months to find more and more reasons this guy shouldn’t be in public office ANYWHERE.
shooter on April 19, 2008 at 12:18 PM
s’cool
Typhonsentra on April 19, 2008 at 12:24 PM
Both Hillary and Fauxbama are from the school of Marxism. Put that out in the media, and McCain wins in a landslide. That’s my prediction anyway……..
adamsmith on April 19, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Last week Obama pronounced that it is fair to punish me by raising my capital gains tax from 15% to 28% because I committed the following sins: worked since the day I turned 14, saved enough to go to law school at 40 and graduate without debt so that I could go into public service, then wisely invested money I earned. It would have been better, according to Obama, that I partied, popped out babies I couldn’t pay for, and basically lived irresponsibly and didn’t serve my fellow man, because THAT’S what he wants to reward people for…and the reward comes out of MY bank account.
Ever since he said that, my eyes have been opened…he is contemptuous of me, and my lifestyle of loving God and going to church and serving my fellow man. He really, truly thinks that he is better and smarter and knows better how to run my life than I do, and he is going to do everything he can to take from me what I have earned and give it to someone else who made selfish, stupid choices. I pay my fair share, I just did my taxes…I paid MORE than my fair share. Obama is the worst thing, ever, that could happen to us.
JustTruth101 on April 19, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Morrisey, you are brilliant
Ropera on April 19, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Forgot to add: even if it REDUCES GENERAL REVENUE, it’s worth it to punish people like me because that’s what’s fair. I’ve never had such a visceral reaction to a politician in my entire life…I’m going to have to stop watching the news…
JustTruth101 on April 19, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Oh, the little people, they are so fascinating!
PattyJ on April 19, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Quite so. He said sipping tea with his pinky finger extended
Channeling Rev Wright without the anger.
Kini on April 19, 2008 at 1:01 PM
I’ve mentioned this previously,
A good example of the democrats attempting “to speak that kind of language” was John Kerry:
Needless to say, this impressed less gun owners than Kerry and his political strategist had planned. (thank God)
wise_man on April 19, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Obama doesn’t want equal chances. Obama wants equal outcome, regardless of actual effort or talent.
Equal outcome being defined as, everyone gets the same tiny wages, tv sets, cars, houses, employment opportunities.
(Of course, some people *cough* Democrat elite *cough* are more equal than others.)
Niko on April 19, 2008 at 1:20 PM
If one thinks that cultural attitudes or tradition are mere prejudices inherited from the past (and easily disposable) and if you combine that with the view of the malleability of human nature, one then views economics as the guiding lodestar of human activity.
Obama is (largely) an economic determinist. That worldview is the one he was steeped in in academia.
The left thinks that if all economic problems are solved, crime and alienation and racism and all of the ills of society will also disappear.
It’s a completely false understanding, in my view, of human beings.
SteveMG on April 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Putting aside Obama’s idiotic linking of unemployment to hunting, Obama claims that for laid off union workers in Galesburg, Illinois the best that is being offered to them is re-training to become a nurses’ assistant, tough guys with beards that are used to handling heavy machinery.
I know this will shock all of you, but that is a false statement.
Moreover, this is what the State of Illinois is doing for Galesburg (and other similarly affected towns). One excerpt:
Finally, this is what the Feds offer through Trade Adjustment Assistance:
What would Obama do?
Buy Danish on April 19, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Very well put Ed…your insights saved me from having to reach for the bucket after watching that clip.
Christine on April 19, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Exactly! I am a self-taught entrepreneur, learning all my lessons in the School of Hard Knocks. I didn’t get to go to college because I had to work to survive. And because I held down two jobs, I made too much money to qualify for financial assistance to go to school. Plus, I’m caucasian which puts me squarely at the bottom of all lists for receiving any assistance. But that’s ok. It just made me stronger and more self-reliant.
I’ve paid (dearly) for the mistakes I’ve made (plenty of them, too) and been amply rewarded for my persistance and tenacity.
I have spent my life pursuing and living the American Dream. What I have, I’ve earned. Hard-fought and won, and doing no other harm in the making.
And yet liberal elitists like the big O, the hildabeast, and all on the far left of the political-sociological spectrum want to penalize me for my efforts and take away from me the things I’ve justly earned and accumulated and give them to those, like you said, who’ve made unwise and even stupid choices in their lives. And all in the name of ‘fairness’.
How the hell is that fair at all to ME? People should have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I damn sure have to. And sometimes it costs a lot. And you know what? I learn from that experience and DON’T DO THAT ANYMORE.
This is the America and Americans they simply don’t understand. We don’t want to be dependent on anybody or anything. To be so is weakness.
Why is that such a difficult concept for the left to grok? But then someone who is more interested in perceived ‘fairness’ than the very real economic boon that lowering taxes actually brings about is as close to hopelessly ignorant as I can imagine.
It’s not about ‘fairness’. It’s about Power and Control.
Neither of the dem candidates should be allowed to gain the Presidency. Hell, McC’s only barely better. America deserves much better leaders than the choices we’re currently being offered.
techno_barbarian on April 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM
One thing that really got my blood boiling was his comment about the big guys (morons who are used to working with farm equipment) who lost their jobs to Mexico. Instead of focusing on HOW to keep those jobs here for AMERICANS he insults even those of us who don’t yet own guns or go to church but still want to preserve the traditions and language* of our culture along with it’s sovereignty.
*Those of you who live on the southern border know how frustrating it is to have to press 5 for English or hear Spanish being spoken everywhere you go…even in telemarketing messages.
Christine on April 19, 2008 at 2:06 PM
This arrogant meme that forms the basis of his reasoning, that people cling to (and vote on) guns and God because of economic hardship simply underscores how out of touch he is with Americans outside the liberal latte set. I was born in a town of 1000 population in Illinois, raised in Oklahoma and live in Texas. I first hunted when I was 12 years old and still look forward to dove season, turkey season, and deer season every year. This guy has no clue as to what makes me tick or VOTE! I hunt and support the second amendment in good economic times and bad. I pray to God in good times and bad. And I dang sure don’t cling to either God or guns simply when the economy hits a rough patch. This guy simply does not GET the lifestyle I live and cherish.
second digit on April 19, 2008 at 2:11 PM
I thought this was funny and timely passing it along, given Obama turned into a “typical politician” Maybe we could get his opinion on this it relates to health care.
An appropriate joke.: Four surgeons were comparing the easiest patients
to work on. One said it was accountants: “All their parts are numbered.”
One said electricians: “All their parts are color-coded.” One said
librarians: “All their parts are in alphabetical order.” The fourth
surgeon said, “You’re all wrong – it’s politicians. They have no guts,
no heart, no spine, and the head and the butt are interchangeable.”
Dr Evil on April 19, 2008 at 2:27 PM
It is the height of foolishness to think that people, like the hunters mentioned, only started to care about things they like because they lost their jobs. Did they not hunt while they were employed? Are employed people not religious? Do they not seek the comfort of their families?
Obama understands nothing about human nature.
Pablo on April 19, 2008 at 2:27 PM
So let me see if I fellow what Obama said in 2004.
I’m not sure,but is their open season 24/7!
In Canada we have open season,say for Partridge its
Sept/15 for 3 months!
Ummm,So Obama is saying when tough heavy machinery
workers,mechanics are about to loose their livihood
they can take therapy by going out with the guys to
blow of ammunition and steam?
So,I’m not sure,is this the good ol’boy attitude
he’s speaking of,guns and God!
And it sounds like Obama doesn’t know sport shooting
from hunting to target practise to self-defence,me
thinks!
canopfor on April 19, 2008 at 2:28 PM
With the reference to recreating the positive experience with the father he implies that hunting is pathological. He has absolutely no understanding of small town people and seems to have a need demonize them. I now he’s very, very special but I doubt that he’s the antichrist. But I want to remain open minded.
snaggletoothie on April 19, 2008 at 2:35 PM
I love it, just love it when foreign commenters on HA make the case better for America, than many here.
Marxism if first and foremost with the Obamas. The couple is downright dangerous to this country. It’s the overriding driver against them. All else fades in comparison, and it’s not gotcha. Your Emperor has been unveiled, for all to see now.
How persnickety of him.
Entelechy on April 19, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Thanks for the h/t Ed!
BrianA on April 19, 2008 at 2:55 PM
“Obama is (largely) an economic determinist.”
What makes this so surprising is he lives reasonably close to University of Chicago. Does he even know that they have a few Nobel Prize winners in Economics.
David on April 19, 2008 at 2:56 PM
How different things would be if it had been the other way…
Keyes is going to the Constitution Party. Maybe it’s time for a re-match?
(I kid. Obama won’t be the nominee.)
emailnuevo on April 19, 2008 at 3:05 PM
amailnuevo, he’ll be the nominee, and lose in the general, because they Left miscalculates. Utopia drives/punishes them.
Entelechy on April 19, 2008 at 3:18 PM
People keep mentioning “power and control”. How about “statism”, on the road that leads to “totalitarianism”?
The state should be in charge of your body (Universal Health Care), your food (biofuels), any of your activities that involve breathing, energy, or combustion (Anthropogenic Global Warming), and the amount you can benefit from the risks you take (tax on capital gains, limits on executive compensation).
When people advocate statist solutions, two things are generally true. First, that they are, or mean to be, part of the ruling class of that state….and, second, that decisions made by that state will be far better than the decisions made by anyone else.
The first half is “arrogance”, the second, “condescension”.
cthulhu on April 19, 2008 at 3:34 PM
And ironically, both are the result of ignorance. Imagine that. Ignorance from the annointed ‘elites’.
They are so going down. America’s just not that stupid.
techno_barbarian on April 19, 2008 at 3:49 PM
According that clip and what we’ve heard recently,
Bitter = Camaraderie
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on April 19, 2008 at 4:04 PM
This argument can only be made by someone who actually lived it…Obama/Hildebeast/the Left cannot even articulate this sentiment because it is not true for them, not their experience…what they didn’t have handed to them on a silver platter, they lied/cheated/stole to get. That’s why they hate us…they think we HAD to have done the same thing or else we wouldn’t be successful, and they want us to pay the way they know they should pay. They are projecting their sins onto us.
JustTruth101 on April 19, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I don’t think the liberal elites vote against their self-interest by voting leftist at all. At that level it is mostly about power and influence. Elites like to be part of power and influence. There is an old saying “pay to play”, the rich can always have a place at the table to direct some of the money their way.
A CBO study some time ago estimated the cost impact of Green taxes on the ecomony by income quintile. Every quintile lost money except for one. The top quintile benefited.
r keller on April 19, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Obama just go away…
Chakra Hammer on April 19, 2008 at 5:26 PM
He doesn’t understand that people have spiritual needs apart from economic ones. That’s why he has adhered to Black Liberation Theology. Like all of the other Liberation Theologies, BLT doesn’t address spiritual needs at all and has distorted the purpose of Jesus Christ to be the resolver of earthly issues, such as vengeance against earthly oppressors.
Obama doesn’t get spirituality and, therefore, doesn’t understand what the uproar has been about. He doesn’t understand that “man cannot live by bread alone.”
baldilocks on April 19, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Exactly right. And I, for one, am sick and tired of it.
techno_barbarian on April 20, 2008 at 12:47 AM
men go hunting because of economic hardship? I grew up in DuPage county (which at the time was constantly in the top 3 wealthiest counties in the US and even after they relocated some kids and their families from the worst parts of Chicago proper so they’d get an actual education, it’s still pretty damn high up there)and a solid 6/8ths of the people I went to school with hunted regularly.
Oh and need I point out that this is on Obama’s doorstep? He could drive 20 minutes outside of the city he lived in to see that the wealthiest area of his constituency are probably the biggest hunting enthusiasts in the state of Illinois.
Try again, Hussein.
MannyT-vA on April 20, 2008 at 1:39 AM
Man! If there’s anyone who needs Universal health care, it’s gotta be Charlie Rose. What’s up with him – hacking his way through that interview, and bloodying himself up by tripping while walking down the street playing with his new laptop?? Get that man to a doctor – stat!
Captain Scarlet on April 20, 2008 at 3:47 AM
CE, Excellent post. Thanks.
SwabJockey on April 20, 2008 at 5:35 AM
I guess in December 2009 our nations Capital will be
celebrating Kwanzaa.
gary on April 20, 2008 at 9:27 AM
#%@! GOVERnMENT!
Kids, get your coats, we’re going to the mall to buy another gun.
Capitana on April 20, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Haven’t been to DC lately, have you.
Oldnuke on April 20, 2008 at 11:21 AM
These are some of the most ridiculous “explanations” of why people do things I’ve ever heard. People don’t hunt because they don’t have a job and want to feel as though they belong – people hunt because they enjoy doing something that is NOT work. Dumbass.(es) Hunting is a lifestyle, and if people who enjoy hunting are able to find better employment, they will end up owning nicer guns! Duh.
And I’m not even going to touch the comments about why people go to church except to just point out that people participate in church because it’s something that BELIEVE in. If they have better employment, they have nicer CHURCHES. DUH.
Obama is an idiot.
KMC1 on April 20, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Wham! Bam! Thank you, Ma’am! ;)
AH_C on April 21, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Comment pages: