Movie Review: Expelled
posted at 3:00 pm on April 18, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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While at CPAC in February, I had an opportunity to attend an advance screening of the new documentary, Expelled: The Movie. Ben Stein focuses on a perceived lack of intellectual freedom afforded to those who either believe in or investigate Intelligent Design theories in the scientific community. I wrote the following review at the time; the producers may have made some changes since, but I don’t believe it would change the thrust of my review. I plan on seeing the theatrical release this weekend, and would recommend it to everyone as at least a way to discuss the values and limitations of scientific inquiry and intellectual openness in American Academia.
The bloggers at CPAC received an invitation to screen a new documentary on academic intolerance called Expelled: The Movie this evening. The documentary features Ben Stein on a quest to understand the near-hysteria caused by scientists who so much as broach the idea of intelligent design in papers or in research. It follows Stein as he interviews professors denied tenure, editors fired, and journalists shunned for touching the subject even at its most innocuous levels.
Before discussing my feelings about the film, which is still in post-production and will not go into release until April, I should explain my approach to the ID/evolution debate. I believe evolution is demonstrably proven in enough examples to say that its effect on variation in species cannot be denied. The example I used tonight in discussing this with another viewer (certainly not the only example) is antibiotic effects on bacteria. Antibiotics that kill 99% of bacteria eventually promote the survival and the expansion of the 1% that resist them, created superbacteria that require another set of antibiotics to cure, and so on.
That said, evolution does not interfere with my faith in God. God certainly could have created the universe with a design that included life. The rational laws of nature would include evolution, as well as the myriad of other rational and mathematically provable mechanisms that undergird nature. In fact, the impulse of man to discover the rational laws of nature began with the belief in a rational God, as scientists understood nature’s rationality to reveal an intelligent Creator.
I’d go deeper than that, but Dinesh D’Souza covers it nicely enough already in his book What’s So Great About Christianity, and it’s getting late enough as it is. Suffice it to say that evolution doesn’t present a threat to my worldview.
Rationally, we have to admit that some use ID as an excuse to teach the more literal form of Creationism that has been used to argue against evolution entirely, especially against teaching evolution in primary-school classrooms. That admission does not appear in Expelled, which is a glaring omission. It tends to take out of context the frustration some scientists have about ID, and its place in polarizing the debate over its use. Properly framed, ID accepts all of the science without accepting its transformation into its own belief system.
What do I mean by that? In this, the film does an excellent job of demonstrating atheism as a belief system. Atheism as represented by Richard Dawkings and others in this film gets exposed as exactly the kind of belief system they claim to despise. They can’t prove God exists — and they can’t prove God doesn’t exist. They make the common fallacy of arguing that absence of evidence amounts to evidence of absence.
But in a way, this is all secondary to the real issue of the film: academic intolerance. The debate over ID vs Darwinism sets the table for a truly disturbing look at academia. Science should be about the free debate and research of ideas and hypotheses for duplicable results and provable theorems. However, as the examples Stein and the film provide amply show, the Darwinist academic establishment will brook no dissent from the orthodoxy — and scientists have to be shown with hidden faces to speak to the issue for the film.
Amusingly, Stein asks people how the first cell came to be. None of the scientists could give him a straight answer. Dawkins himself admits he doesn’t know and that no one else does, either — but postulates that aliens could have brought life to this planet, and then postulates that another alien civilization could have brought life to that planet, and so on. He then concedes that one entity could have been the original source … but insists that entity could not possibly have been God. For this he gives absolutely no evidence at all, relegating it as a belief system somewhat akin to Scientology.
All of this is extremely effective, as are the many allusions made to the Berlin Wall during the film. The theme runs throughout, and it explicitly refers to the defensive academic establishment as having built a wall that tramples on freedom of thought and discourse. Less effective is the heavy references to the Nazis in the movie. Although emotionally affecting for some obvious reasons, the fact is that while the Nazis were mostly Darwinists (along with a lot of other things), the vast majority of Darwinists aren’t Nazis. Certainly the eugenicists in Nazi Germany were mightily influenced by Darwinism, but America had its own eugenicists, which the film points out.
I should point out that the film has not finished production, and that changes will be made between now and its release in April. The filmmakers just completed an interview with Christopher Hitchens and will include it in the final cut. I believe other changes may be made which could address some of the criticisms I’ve written here.
Overall, though, the film presents a powerful argument not for intelligent design as much as for the freedom of scientific inquiry. If scientists get punished for challenging orthodoxy, we will not expand our learning but ossify it in concrete. Expelled: The Movie is entertaining, maddening, funny, and provocative, and well worth your time.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:33 PM
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/insinuate
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Is your evolution ocean god a god of Truth?
Or does he tolerate lies?
Is he a god of lies?
Who called you a necrophiliac?
I was asking what is right and what is wrong according to evolutionists?
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:34 PM
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:33 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_%28Internet%29#Internet_Baiting
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:35 PM
fossten. Didn’t you already dismiss me? Gee. Do you have a point other than I suck?
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Not only are triple & ronsfi reduced to name-calling, but they can’t comprehend the simple message of
He’s just saying that if there’s no God, there is no right & wrong.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:37 PM
You don’t listen very well, apparently. So you need more disciplining.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:38 PM
“Oh, he called me a necrophiliac!” Duh.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Pretty much the same thing as the rest of civilization.
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:38 PM
tephen Roberts I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours 281 votes6%4200 votes94%
Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d. Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. 185 votes7%2456 votes93%
Blaise Pascal Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions 196 votes9%2000 votes91%
Emo Philips When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me. 353 votes14%2227 votes86%
Richard Jeni You’re basically killing each other to see who’s got the better imaginary friend 97 votes6%1600 votes94%
Bertrand Russell And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence 137 votes8%1560 votes92%
George Bernard Shaw The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one 156 votes9%1549 votes91%
Epicurus Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? 227 votes12%1671 votes88%
Doug McLeod I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence 291 votes14%1776 votes86%
Unknown Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. 204 votes12%1519 votes88%
unknown Don’t pray in my school, and I won’t think in your church 332 votes16%1750 votes84%
Gene Roddenberry We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes 104 votes8%1167 votes92%
Carl Sagan You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep-seated need to believe. 157 votes11%1261 votes89%
Steven Weinberg With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. 94 votes8%1105 votes92%
Richard Lederer (Anguished English) There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages. 174 votes12%1282 votes88%
Unknown Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer 68 votes7%966 votes93%
George Carlin Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man — living in the sky — who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any… [more] 79 votes8%971 votes92%
Ferdinand Magellan The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church 142 votes12%1075 votes88%
Albert Einstein A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death 99 votes10%941 votes90%
Galileo Galilei I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them 81 votes9%863 votes91%
Napoleon Bonaparte Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet 93 votes10%860 votes90%
Delos B. McKown The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike 116 votes11%909 votes89%
Unknown Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence. 148 votes13%959 votes87%
Unknown George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd. 22 votes3%632 votes97%
Aldous Huxley “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” 11 votes2%593 votes98%
unknown Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish 42 votes6%676 votes94%
Robert A. Heinlein Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. 53 votes7%688 votes93%
Carl Sagan Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence 82 votes10%745 votes90%
Voltaire Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities 23 votes4%585 votes96%
H. L. Mencken We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart 118 votes13%798 votes87%
Marie Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent. 35 votes6%601 votes94%
Thomas Jefferson I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. 50 votes7%639 votes93%
William Drummond He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave 37 votes6%604 votes94%
Friedrich Nietzsche Which is it, is man one of God’s blunders or is God one of man’s? 97 votes12%742 votes88%
Robert G. Ingersoll As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers 72 votes10%682 votes90%
John Adams, 2nd President of the United States The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion. 97 votes12%717 votes88%
Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, 1988 We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don’t stand up to experimentation, Buddha’s own words must be rejected. 45 votes7%594 votes93%
Carlespie Mary Alice McKinney Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. 21 votes4%521 votes96%
Giulian Buzila History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god. 19 votes4%513 votes96%
Benjamin Franklin The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason 48 votes8%584 votes92%
Coral Yoshi So you really think that God would plant a bunch of bones in the earth to test your faith? Either you’re in denial or God has some serious self-esteem issues. 27 votes5%530 votes95%
Mark Twain The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also 71 votes10%638 votes90%
Bumper sticker You keep believing, I’ll keep evolving 136 votes15%779 votes85%
Arthur C. Clarke I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent. 38 votes6%554 votes94%
unknown People who don’t like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn’t have such funny beliefs 172 votes17%849 votes83%
Russian Proverb Pray to God, fine; but keep rowing to shore. 39 votes7%552 votes93%
Justin Brown If the Bible is mistaken in telling us where we came from, how can we trust it to tell us where we’re going? 60 votes9%603 votes91%
Gustaf Lindborg The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail 113 votes14%721 votes86%
Terry Pratchett The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they’ve found it. 34 votes6%536 votes94%
Justin Brown An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanishe
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:40 PM
I don’t have enough faith to believe that lightning struck a mud puddle, & peptites, polypeptites, & cells were formed.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Oooh you know how I like it!
ronsfi on April 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Ronsfi,
Is nothing right or wrong according to you?
So if new zealand natives practice murder and cannibalism legally is that ok?
If necrophilia is legalized would you do it?
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Dude you’re just begging to get banned with that wall of text.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:42 PM
If Darwin had known that cells are as complex as they are, he never would have come up with such an impossible theory of origins.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:43 PM
You’ve got to see the movie. There is a CGI simulation of a cell’s inner workings that is STUNNING.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:43 PM
1400+ comments-Increased Ad Rates
Perhaps a dozen worth reading-Easy To Pick Best Of
Proof humans are devolving-Priceless
Beto Ochoa on April 19, 2008 at 11:44 PM
Murder is legal, in many cases. You have to be in a Planned Parenthood clinic, though.
That’s what you get when you teach that we are merely evolved protoplasms. Human life is of no more value than paramecia.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Is this part of it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xp7FNC0mmFc&feature=related
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:46 PM
We’ll see it tomorrow night.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Yeah. Was breathtaking in the theater.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Philippines?
TheCulturalist on April 19, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Are you saying that YOU would practice necrophilia if it was legal here?
Or would you consider that wrong?
Are you saying that you would practice child rape if it was legal here?
Or is that wrong according to you?
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:50 PM
ID will be taken seriously when it can be observed, which it can’t by its very nature. Evolution CAN and HAS been observed.
If you choose to remain ignorant of that fact and deny reality, that’s up to you, just don’t get all upset when the rest of us don’t buy into make believe.
triple on April 19, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Absolutely incorrect. NeoDarwinian evolution has NEVER been observed, nor is it falsifiable.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM
What about the Philippines? It’s my home away from home (& my wife’s birthplace).
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM
I repeat. NEVER.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:56 PM
ronsfi,triple,
Would you stop someone from raping a child?
Or would you let them do it because it’s right for them according to their morality?
If you did stop them…why would you do that?
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:56 PM
triple & fossten, you’re BOTH right on that one. But one of you means macroevolution, & the other means microevolution.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM
noticed the “pinoy” in ur name. my wife’s birthplace too, but i’ve never been there.
TheCulturalist on April 19, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Obviously species can evolve–look at Chihuahuas & Great Danes. But a dog always has been & always will be a dog.
That’s the difference between macro- & micro-.
jgapinoy on April 19, 2008 at 11:59 PM
It is impossible for a species to muatate into another species because in order to do that it would need NEW INFORMATION….not just a slimmed down version of their existing information.
SaintOlaf on April 19, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Exactly. He doesn’t understand that microevolution, which is merely a fancy term for adaptation, is NOT the same thing as NeoDarwinian evolution, nor does it prove it in any way.
Pretty sad that he doesn’t even understand the difference between the two.
fossten on April 19, 2008 at 11:59 PM
So as not to be off topic, I’ll point out that the variety of animal & plant life in the Philippines is stunning! My favorite vacation spot.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:01 AM
some day i hope to verify that
TheCulturalist on April 20, 2008 at 12:02 AM
And mutations are harmful, thus making a creature less fit & less likely to survive, & unable to further develop the change in the species.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Boracay is the most beautiful beach in all CREATION.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:03 AM
I stayed on topic!
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:04 AM
my wife says you are correct, it’s like heaven… with sand
TheCulturalist on April 20, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Irreducible complexity–
How did flight evolve?
How did eyesight evolve?
How did blood coagulation evolve?
I could go on ad infinitum.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:07 AM
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:03 AM
You’re right.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:07 AM
In Boracay, the water is so clear, you can stand neck deep & still see the tiny fish swimming around your feet.
There’s a place offshore where they have about 300 sq yards surrounded by a net. The net lets in small fish but screens out the predators. Thus, millions of beautiful fish as far as the eye can see are swimming around you. Stunning beauty. A great place to admire God’s creation! (staying on topic)
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:12 AM
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:14 AM
i’m sold. i’ll call it the creation vacation.
TheCulturalist on April 20, 2008 at 12:20 AM
Would you?
And if so why ronsfi?
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Mabuhay!
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:21 AM
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re2/chapter10.asp
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:23 AM
You are one sick puppy.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Irreducible complexity.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Don’t you even understand the very simple point he’s making?
If there is no God, there is no right or wrong.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Ronsfi,
So you would stop him?
Why would you stop him if what wrong for you is right for someone else?
What would compel you to stop him?
Is it because you KNOW what he is doing is wrong?
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:27 AM
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Really? Why not?
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:28 AM
ronsfi already said it is wrong–”poison”–to teach creationism.
If there is no God, how can he make such a judgement? There is no wrong.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:30 AM
Dude. If you look at the news you will find it’s not Atheist abusing children but fine upstanding bible thumpers. Where is your superior god given morality now?
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:31 AM
salamat
TheCulturalist on April 20, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Hitler claimed to be doing what’s best for humanity. Was he wrong?
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:31 AM
So you know what he is doing is wrong.
How do you know that?
How is it that you have a inner moral law?
Where did that moral law come from?
Who created it?
And why does every person on earth have it?
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Devout evolutionist Hitler was merely taking humanity from compassion for the weak to survival of the fittest.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:33 AM
ronsfi, you have to be kidding!?!
The 20th century was the Era of Atheist/Evolutionist Mass Murder, from USSR to Cambodia to Red China.
No one who follows Jesus would do what you cite.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:35 AM
And here I thought they were communists.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:40 AM
On the moral results of atheism.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:40 AM
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Just Priests and Deacons and Pastors etc.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:41 AM
ronsfi, you forgot your claim at 12:31AM.
Communists are atheistic evolutionists. You do agree with that, right?
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Ronsfi,
Why do you have that moral law inside of you?
What is it’s purpose?
Did your evolution/ocean god give you that moral law because he is a JUST god who will judge you in righteousness?
Or is your ocean god not holy himself and therefore doesn’t care?
Is he a evil god?
Did your ocean god give you the moral law for no reason?
Or maybe did someone else give you the moral law?
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:43 AM
We’ve all seen the same show and clearly you get all your ideas from it.
Really you should read a book.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:43 AM
There are child abusers in every profession.
Again, no one who is following Jesus will abuse a child.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:44 AM
I don’t even know what show you’re talking about.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:44 AM
I’m out of the loop.
ronsfi says there’s a show that teaches what I’ve been saying. I’d like to see the show. What is it?
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:47 AM
You seem to think that’s clever argument.
Where did wheel come from?
Where did Art come from?
Where did Architecture come from?
Where did Farming come from?
Where did Arithmetic, Philosophy, Medicine, Chemistry, Metallurgy, Music, come from?
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Is it Expelled? I haven’t seen it yet.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Well, if nothing else, we have demonstrated why scientists do not want to debate ID. 15 pages, over 1400 posts, and here we are still arguing over the basic terms of the debate. There is no conspiracy, they just don’t have the time to rehash the flood, the age of the earth, dinosaurs riding the ark, not to mention the satanists at The National Geographic. And after all this time, the real answer was given in the first page or so. Scientists don’t want to discuss ID because it isn’t science. As soon as you say “and then a miracle happened” it stops being science and becomes religion. Totally different game.
The Buzz on April 20, 2008 at 12:48 AM
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Just Priests and Deacons and Pastors etc.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:41 AM
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:49 AM
Anyway. I got a Date. Enjoy the Interwebs.
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:51 AM
ronsfi, morals are not scientific. Morals are not always practical. Morals often contradict Darwinian survival of the fittest.
So where do morals come from?
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:51 AM
ronsfi, drive safely.
jgapinoy on April 20, 2008 at 12:52 AM
What does that have to do with right and wrong?
Are you evading because you are afraid?
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:52 AM
I think ronsfi just broke the 9th commandment.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 12:54 AM
Yes. They are even spoken of in the Bible.
They are the fallen angels spoken of in Genesis 6 etc.
Fallen angels are evil and the greeks were by no means known as a moral people.
Tartarus is mentioned in the Bible as where the fallen angels were imprisoned below the earth before the flood.
The same fallen angels who bred with humans and created Nephilim(Giants). Half human half fallen angels(demi-gods in Greek).
Apollo(Apollyon) is also mentioned in the Bible. He is the leader of the fallen angels when they are released from tartarus(underworld/greek) in the end days.
He is either the Anti-Christ or the false prophet, spoken of in revelations.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 1:04 AM
The sumerians also worshipped the fallen angels.
In fact gilgamesh himself was a nephilim(giant).
Ironically the non scientific theory of evolution began by being lifted from sumerian theology.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 1:07 AM
Observed by who?
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:10 AM
ronsfi on April 20, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Name calling again?
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:17 AM
So if someone could somehow convince you that there is no god, would you go out and rape and steal and murder anytime you thought you could get away with it?
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:20 AM
A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
- Albert Einstein
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:23 AM
It should be: except for human frailty.
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:28 AM
MB
I could be wrong, but didn’t Einstein believe in god?
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Yes. Albert Einstein believed in a false god.
But even Einstein wasn’t dumb enough to believe in evolution.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 1:34 AM
That has been seen by different people in different ways.
Yes and no as I read him.
It depends on what the meaning of God is. I think that he believed in God as the Universe, not in a personal God.
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Either way Einstein believed in a false god.
SaintOlaf on April 20, 2008 at 1:41 AM
“”I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew.”
Is this Spinoza’s God? “I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but I admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.”
Do you believe in immortality? “No. And one life is enough for me.”
His belief in causal determinism was incompatible with the concept of human free will. Jewish as well as Christian theologians have generally believed that people are responsible for their actions. They are even free to choose, as happens in the Bible, to disobey God’s commandments, despite the fact that this seems to conflict with a belief that God is all knowing and all powerful.
Einstein, on the other hand, believed–as did Spinoza–that a person’s actions were just as determined as that of a billiard ball, planet or star. “Human beings in their thinking, feeling and acting are not free but are as causally bound as the stars in their motions,” Einstein declared in a statement to a Spinoza Society in 1932.
It was a concept he drew also from his reading of Schopenhauer. “Everybody acts not only under external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity,” he wrote in his famous credo. “Schopenhauer’s saying, ‘A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills,’ has been a real inspiration to me since my youth; it has been a continual consolation in the face of life’s hardships, my own and others’, and an unfailing wellspring of tolerance.”"
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:41 AM
Apparently a very troubled soul.
It was YOUR KIND that censured Galileo. By YOUR KIND, I mean those who rejected the scientific theory of heliocentrism for non-scientific reasons. The Catholic church of the day believed in a geocentric universe, NOT because the Bible teaches the universe revolves around the earth, but because Greek philosophers had taught it. In other words, they took their current “science,” geocentrism, and made it dogma.
Science is not determined by consensus, and is not advanced by acting as if evolution is beyond question.
If ID is really bad science, then it can’t stand up to scientific scrutiny. But there seems to a movement to make sure it’s never given scientific scrutiny, and that raises a big red flag about just how settled the theory of evolution is.
And your attempt to equate people who don’t accept evolution with the people who “burned witches”, “established the Inquisition”, and “destroyed native peoples in the name of Christ” is not just ad hominem, but vicious ad hominem as well as nonsense. First, each instance you cite was done by a different group of people for different reasons, so it makes no sense at all to call them “YOUR KIND” as if they were all one kind. Second, the people you insult with this have almost certainly never burned a witch, done an Inquisition, etc. The only thing you listed that was even relevant to science was Galileo, and he got in hot water not for putting science above religion, but for contradicting the science of the past.
As for the fossil record being full of transitional forms, all these “transitional forms” you list are just extinct species that have been put on a supposed evolutionary scale. The evolutionist believes that reptiles evolved from amphibians, so they claim any reptile species that looks somewhat amphibian — or amphibian species that looks somewhat reptilian — as a transitional species.
The fossil record does not show the one thing that would prove evolution: a continuous sequence of transitional forms. The “transitional forms” you do list don’t show such a continuous sequence, just smaller gaps than previously supposed. But they’re still individual species.
Which means that the fossil record still shows far more gaps than transitional forms.
In fact, the platypus could just as easily be labeled a “transitional form,” since it seems in some ways to be halfway between reptile and mammal, but I don’t believe it’s considered that way at all in modern evolutionary thinking.
theregoestheneighborhood on April 20, 2008 at 1:42 AM
He is clearly a man without any invisible means of support.
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:47 AM
We’ve got to stop feeding the trolls.
Good night all, see you tomorrow.
fossten on April 20, 2008 at 1:48 AM
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:36 AM
God, as in creator?
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:49 AM
Hence the scientific theory that is sometimes called “Punctuated equilibrium”.
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:50 AM
2000?
TheCulturalist on April 20, 2008 at 1:54 AM
As I read him the answer would be probably no, that when he does speak of God he is doing so metaphorically, but others say otherwise. So take your pick, although I do think that it is safe to say that he did not believe in a personal God or the God of the Bible.
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:54 AM
Do you think, as many scientist do, that it can scientificly be proven, that a certain star is 1000 light years away? {In our lifetime}
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:56 AM
This rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are
insanetrolls [updated].- Mark Twain.
MB4 on April 20, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Good night.
Johan Klaus on April 20, 2008 at 1:59 AM
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