And the time in between? Is that simply up for debate depending on the latest advances in science, which can already make a fetus viable even when it’s legal to abort.

Esthier on April 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Yes, it is debated and may always be. I don’t think viability should be the measure since the fundamental right to life ought not be granted and rescinded based on medical changes.

A moment before birth it is a person. A moment after fertilization it isn’t.

dedalus on April 18, 2008 at 1:22 AM

And the time in between? Is that simply up for debate depending on the latest advances in science, which can already make a fetus viable even when it’s legal to abort.

And a human being who is born is not different in any way from one that was in the womb, just one hour ago. What about two hours ago? Still a life? What about a month before birth? Is that alive?

An egg is not a life. Neither is a sperm. Most people who look at this logically recognize that they are – today, a live human being that was once born, and before that, alive in the womb. This whole concept of defining a life, a person, “a being” as only after they are born is without merit. And it’s annoying.

wise_man on April 17, 2008 at 5:49 PM

A moment before birth it is a person. A moment after fertilization it isn’t.

darclon on April 17, 2008 at 7:29 PM

I had just never heard it put that way, tis all. I’m good if you are.

We don’t. But we didn’t have any proof that she didn’t.

However, it does look like it may be just “performance art”

http://www.nysun.com/news/national/yale-students-art-project-creative-fiction

the goddess anna on April 17, 2008 at 7:10 PM

Well, as with most generalizations, this one fell short. There is sometimes irregular bleeding, typically called spotting, that does not translate to a miscarriage.

Exceptions to the rule, such as your family, do exist. In general, a period during pregnancy, within the first trimester especially, does coincide with the expulsion of the fetus. A period is just the sloughing off of the uterine wall, the wall that the zygote/fetus/placenta is attached.

My point was just that we don’t know whether she did it or not, and there is nothing that I have read to contradict what she claims to have done.

BTW, I’m a guy, I’ve just got two kids and I’ve picked up a little info along the way.

darclon on April 17, 2008 at 6:45 PM

What proof do we have other than her say-so that she actually became pregnant?

darclon on April 17, 2008 at 6:45 PM

While I’m glad you mentioned something about herbs that do induce miscarriage, I have to disagree about your first point. I had a regular cycle while pregnant the first time, up until my 7th month. My mother had hers with me for 5 months, and with all five of hers my maternal grandmother had a regular period all 9 months.

According to dictionary.com, a miscarraige is

1. the expulsion of a fetus before it is viable, esp. between the third and seventh months of pregnancy; spontaneous abortion. Compare abortion (def. 1).

Interesting that it is usually not considered a miscarriage until the third month.

Herbal abortifacients? Puhleeze. She menstruated on her art project and will probably get an A+ for her efforts.

Herbal abortifacients make your period start…of course not taking them would have, well, made you period start.

Smart girl though. She’s gonna get straight A+ on her big show and all she had to do was keep her maxipads for a few months. She’ll probably get a big NEA grant too, and laugh all the way to the bank. She’s got another 30 years until menopause, after all.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 11:01 AM

If you have a period while pregnant, it’s called a miscarriage.

Second, there are herbs that do induce a miscarriage. They are even mentioned in the original Hippocratic oath. If a woman stresses her body enough (through drugs, work, exercise, etc.) the body will induce a miscarriage.

Newsbusters is calling this a hoax because the idea of artificial insemination sounds unbelievable? Ever heard of a mule?

Whether this is legit or not is one thing, but the basic biology of the situation is completely believable. It’s the motivation and the act that is unbelievably horrendous.

It is much harder, I think, for the “modern” art movement to reach a lower level of vacuity….

Newsbusters says it’s a hoax.

indythinker on April 17, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Yes, but without proof. I’m inclined to believe it’s a hoax, but I wouldn’t put it above a Yale student to consider this art and attempt something like this.

Either way, this girl is making her point and getting attention while doing it.

I understand. I’m only referring to the abortion issue……

buzzkiller.

beefytee on April 17, 2008 at 5:30 PM

Just checking.

Pardon me while I go hug my two kids…

I hope it inspires some sort of discourse

Star Trek Universal Translator – “I hope it makes people pay attention to Me-e-e-e-e.”

While, I find some merit to the argument the two situations are not analogous and each must be decided on its own merits.
dedalus on April 17, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Slavery, treating other human beings as property to be bought and sold, it’s existence terminated by the whim of the owner is wrong. It is evil. No one on this planet can argue that this is something that is about “choice.”

Destroying an unborn life that has not been allowed to grow to the point that he or she is born, calling it a “fetus” and a clump of cells when it is not a cyst, not a tumor or growth – but an undeveloped human being – is also not a “choice” when the mother decides to terminate it’s life. (in my opinion.) As I said previously, it may take another hundred years when we as a people look back at a time when this was allowed and call it as it actually was, and not use the disgusting terms we use today to dismiss the death of a human, that has life.

Similarly, a fertilized egg is different in many of its qualities from an adult of an enslaved race or of a woman.

And a human being who is born is not different in any way from one that was in the womb, just one hour ago. What about two hours ago? Still a life? What about a month before birth? Is that alive?

An egg is not a life. Neither is a sperm. Most people who look at this logically recognize that they are – today, a live human being that was once born, and before that, alive in the womb. This whole concept of defining a life, a person, “a being” as only after they are born is without merit. And it’s annoying.

I’d like to see this disgusting mentality and illogical definition of what is a life, and who is and is not “a being” go away in my lifetime, but I seriously doubt that it will.

wise_man on April 17, 2008 at 5:17 PM

There’s an argument that because we were previously wrong about interracial marriage that we therefore must be wrong about gay marriage. While, I find some merit to the argument the two situations are not analogous and each must be decided on its own merits. Similarly, a fertilized egg is different in many of its qualities from an adult of an enslaved race or of a woman.

A severe case of oppositional personality dosorder.

I’m becoming surprised that the D.O.J. doesn’t tell all those nosy ACLU, Yale and Harvard lawyers that Gitmo is a work of art that’s not quite ready for viewing. Wouldn’t that move checkmate any serious lefty?

snaggletoothie on April 17, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Only if someone involved has an art degree from a recognized institution…or a sizeable body of work

Not to pick, but we’re anti-abortion, not anti-choice. We favor in many areas, like school vouchers.

Esthier on April 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM

I understand. I’m only referring to the abortion issue……

buzzkiller.