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Whither the superdelegates now?

posted at 9:15 am on April 17, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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In my earlier post, I failed to identify the big loser from last night’s debate. It wasn’t Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and it certainly wasn’t ABC, despite the general spleen-venting on the Left. Superdelegates lost last night, and the pressure now will build on them to make a decision from which most of them hoped to escape.

Superdelegates exist in the Democratic party for one purpose: to invalidate the popular vote when disaster looms. Most of the media has ignored this as campaign activists from across the spectrum have demanded that superdelegates honor the decision of their constituents. If the party wanted that, superdelegates wouldn’t exist at all. They would simply have pledged delegates attending their August convention, and the constituencies would have their votes recorded accordingly.

The DNC deliberately created the college of superdelegates and made them 20% of the convention for a purpose. They wanted to block a narrow victory by a train wreck of a candidate who would lose the White House in a landslide. The debacle of George McGovern prompted it, and Jimmy Carter’s disastrous loss to Ronald Reagan provided the final impetus for such a structure. And in this race, regardless of the rest of the vote, superdelegates will have to provide the nominee with the margin of victory, since neither Hillary nor Obama can mathematically win enough pledged delegates to sew up the nomination.

After last night’s debate, the superdelegates have to ask themselves whether they are rubber stamps or whether they serve a purpose. Obama had already kneecapped himself with his Crackerquiddick comments in San Francisco, alienating a large portion of middle America with sneering comments about Midwestern voters “clinging” to religion and guns because they hadn’t had enough federal intervention in their lives, and all but calling them bigots in the same breath. Last night, when challenged on those remarks, he did nothing to reverse the damage:

And so the point I was making was that when people feel like Washington’s not listening to them, when they’re promised year after year, decade after decade, that their economic situation is going to change, and it doesn’t, then politically they end up focusing on those things that are constant, like religion.

People don’t “focus” on religion because Washington doesn’t listen to them. People “focus” on religion because they have faith in God. Obama said exactly the same thing he did in San Francisco, changing “cling” for “focus” — and this is after having most of a week to develop a response.

Afterwards, when asked about his years-long political association with unrepentant domestic terrorist William Ayers, Obama tried equating the Weather Underground bomber with Senator Tom Coburn:

The fact is, is that I’m also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who during his campaign once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried out abortions.

Do I need to apologize for Mr. Coburn’s statements? Because I certainly don’t agree with those either.

I doubt Senator Coburn will remain friendly with Obama after equating him to a terrorist because of a policy dispute. Coburn wanted to pass a law through legitimate democratic and political means; Ayers tried to terrorize people into policy changes by blowing up buildings, for which he remains unapologetic to this day. Does Obama really see no difference between the two? And if not, what does that say about Obama?

On policy, Obama turned out to be just as incoherent last night. He couldn’t specify where his payroll-tax expansion would hit, couldn’t explain how capital-gains tax increases would work, and offered (along with Hillary) the laughable notion that local communities could override Constitutional rights, as long as it was only the 2nd Amendment that was under consideration. It was an unmitigated, wall-to-wall disaster.

If superdelegates weren’t aware of Obama’s spectacular weaknesses before last night, they know them now. Under pressure, Obama looks lost and sounds unprepared. He will have no time to prep against John McCain in the fall, whose own personal narrative trumps Obama’s and whose lengthy track record in the Senate dwarfs the meager accomplishments of the one-term Senator from Illinois. The train wreck appearing on the horizon may have a scope approaching 1972 or 1984, even without the hurdle of incumbency.

Will the superdelegates act on their responsibility to avoid that? Or will they essentially make themselves irrelevant?


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Comment pages: 1 2

Listen Ed Morrissey, Hussein bought these elections, it’s over.

He got the votes. The Democratic Party “elders” will not look for trouble.

This election is about putting the first Black in the White House, whether anybody likes it or not.

That’s it.

I don’t know how it’s hard for many to understand.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM

He will have no time to prep against John McCain in the fall, whose own personal narrative trumps Obama’s

No way! Obama is black, that’s all that matters.

OneGyT on April 17, 2008 at 9:24 AM

RIght, Indy, there is a poll up at Drudge that shows that Obama won the debate. Totally delusional and in denial, but that is their way of life, why stop now?

bbz123 on April 17, 2008 at 9:24 AM

Please, please, please…

Everyone on the right, pick up the I-don’t-really-carte-about-revenue-I-just want-life-to-be-”fair”-stick and pummel Barry about the head and shoulders with it.

Please.

To me that was the key last night.

Imagine that. I couldn’t believe he said it outloud.

Life’s “fair” in Cuba, Barry. No billionaires there paying less in taxes than their secretaries.

That what we’re after here?

Typhoon on April 17, 2008 at 9:25 AM

I don’t know how why it’s hard for many to understand.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:25 AM

It is a national shame that such a dangerous and potentially subversive person has gotten so close to the Presidency because of the coordination between a fawning Left-wing press and a corrupt, pandering political party.

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 9:26 AM

RIght, Indy, there is a poll up at Drudge that shows that Obama won the debate. Totally delusional and in denial, but that is their way of life, why stop now?

bbz123 on April 17, 2008 at 9:24 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Will the superdelegates act on their responsibility to avoid that? Or will they essentially make themselves irrelevant?

The superdelegates will do what requires the least courage and the least scruples. They will select a black man, and blame his loss on others.

And remember, they’re self-called Superdelegates. More likely, they’re pandering sniveling spineless cowards. Might as well call them the Pu**ydelegates.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

I agree with this and have been predicting that Obama was the weaker candidate. I also think the super delegates have to go with obama or they lose the black vote for a while. But as weak as obama looks now I’m a little worried thats its only april who knows what could change? I just don’t want us to get too cocky. I think this election is TOO important.

tottoritodd on April 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

“… there is a poll up at Drudge that shows that Obama won the debate …” – bbz

It’s obvious that some people see only what they want to see. This is why I call them ‘Obamatrons’.

Tony737 on April 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

With the power the Superdelegates gave to the nutroots, I think they are to scared of their own constituents go against Obama.

Either way the Democrats are going to pick up seats in both the House and the Senate so when McCain wins they will have enough leverage against a liberal Republican.

Lance Murdock on April 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

I doubt Senator Coburn will remain friendly with Obama after equating him to a terrorist because of a policy dispute.

In fairness, Ed, I disagree a bit here, just as a point of logid. When a person offers a counterexample or analogy to illustrate what he feels is an illogical position, he’s not necessarily equating the things under discussion. I see this often in political discussion. Someone will mention tactics they feel are reminiscent of Nazism, and they will be accused of “equating” the object of the analogy with Hitler. Analogies are not equations.

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 9:32 AM

Oops, logic.

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 9:32 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Hyperbole. If he doesn’t get the nomination, perhaps. Obama is like welfare reform. There’s a fear of going off welfare that matches the possible benefit that comes from being off it.

If Obama loses, it’s back to business as usual as the victimized minority. There’s a certain comfort in that.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 9:33 AM

The superdelegates will destroy the Democrat party if they switch, guaranteeing a loss in November, and you can bet that every one that switched will face the fury of the far left insanity swarm for the rest of his or her life.

These contests have turned so many times, even if Obama looks like he will lose now, November is still 7 months away.

WisCon on April 17, 2008 at 9:34 AM

I still say:

Operation C-h-a-o-s

Keep the Democrat party in disarray for as long as possible and pray that Hillary manages to steal the nomination from Obama somehow. Oh, the outrage and bitterness that would ensue…

Jockolantern on April 17, 2008 at 9:35 AM

Ayers tried to terrorize people into policy changes by blowing up buildings, for which he remains unapologetic to this day. Does Obama really see no difference between the two? And if not, what does that say about Obama?

What it says is that Obama is a liberal. To a liberal the only thing that matters is getting your policies enacted. Everything else is just tactics.

To Obama, Ayers is just a slightly more extreme version of Coburn.

MarkTheGreat on April 17, 2008 at 9:36 AM

I think the Coburn comment will backfire for Obama. For a lot of Democrats Coburn is probably much worse Ayers. At least Ayers was a terrorist for the “cause.” Coburn is just “evil” and how can Obama associate with some one evil.

Shtetl G on April 17, 2008 at 9:36 AM

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM

You are convinced there aren’t enough clear thinkers to counteract Obamamania? Not even worth trying? You’re reminding my of that “Liberty is Dead” guy :)

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 9:37 AM

Funny, how the Media has created the horns of a dilemma, by ignoring for so long, the Character and Integrity Issues of the Obamessiah.

A day late…A Dollah short

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 9:38 AM

I myself am looking forward to hearing the screeches of leftists from thousands of miles away, waiting for the lawsuits, really just reveling in the schadenfreude on Nov. 5.

Not to mention the death of any further presidential aspirations Obama might have. Say what you want about Democrats – they don’t re-nominate losers. (They just canonize them.)

amkun on April 17, 2008 at 9:40 AM

His stance on Iraq was a twisted pretzel too.

First he said it is the job of the president to define the mission and the military’s task to carry it out. Then he said as president HE WILL DEFINE the new mission and immediately begin withdrawal of troops. He followed that statement by saying he would talk with the generals on the ground in Iraq and consider their opinions and recommendations regarding a his withdrawal plans.

So is he going to tell them what to do, or decide what to do by what they tell him? He distinctly said he would do both, in classic Slick Willie 2.0 triangulation style.

Me thinks the wordsmith tripped over his tongue last night, and it won’t be the last time. I would describe his performance as a stroll down the runway modeling his unattractive empty suit.

Here’s what we can call Obambi’s new mission for our troops:

Submission.

fogw on April 17, 2008 at 9:40 AM

Looks to me like George Soros is still throwing good money after bad…Fauxbama will lose. McCain ‘08………

adamsmith on April 17, 2008 at 9:41 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Hyperbole. If he doesn’t get the nomination, perhaps. Obama is like welfare reform. There’s a fear of going off welfare that matches the possible benefit that comes from being off it.

If Obama loses, it’s back to business as usual as the victimized minority. There’s a certain comfort in that.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 9:33 AM

Hussein has the votes. Is it hard to see?

And if the “elders” go against him (against Black people), the 2008 riots won’t be a “hyperbole.”

We are on the verge of a civil war in the Democratic Party and the country.

Hussein succeeded -with the help of the media- in playing the race card and establishing himself as the Affirmative Action candidate.

It’s too late, and impossible to go any other direction now.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:42 AM

Indy

Ignore the evidence! Despair!

jgapinoy on April 17, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM

You are convinced there aren’t enough clear thinkers to counteract Obamamania? Not even worth trying? You’re reminding my of that “Liberty is Dead” guy :)

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 9:37 AM

“Clear thinkers” on the Right maybe, but the majority of the idiots are on the Left. You can’t counter them.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Indy

Ignore the evidence! Despair!

jgapinoy on April 17, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Give me evidence.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:44 AM

OMG!
HOLD THE PRESSES!
A black man just got brutally mugged by an elderly white woman!

Where’s Charles Bronson when you need him..

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Will the superdelegates act on their responsibility to avoid that? Or will they essentially make themselves irrelevant?

Easy. They’ll cave. It is the same attitude that keeps oil wells out of ANWR and human children flowing down drains…..’Don’t blame me’. All they are interested in is being best friends to their kids.

Limerick on April 17, 2008 at 9:46 AM

This is the perfect storm, and McCain wins. Big.

Never forget superdelegates are superpoliticians, whose 1st and foremost priority above all things is to get re-elected. They will NOT do anything to jeopardize the gravy train. It’s Obama v McCain, and Hillary is going to use her superpowers to dig up and expose all the dirt there is on him in her failed effort to win the nomination. Talk about chickens coming home to roost! Wright is prophetic.

JustTruth101 on April 17, 2008 at 9:47 AM

It’s funny that the “selected – not elected” rhetoric is coming back to bite the Dems in the azz.

txsurveyor on April 17, 2008 at 9:49 AM

It is a national shame that such a dangerous and potentially subversive person has gotten so close to the Presidency because of the coordination between a fawning Left-wing press and a corrupt, pandering political party.

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 9:26 AM

Good comment, and great post.

I like your work Ed.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 9:50 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

You are exactly right Indy and that is why I hope this all plays out at the dem. convention rather than after the general election.

I think things are going to get u-g-l-y unless BO wins the presidency. I also think the superdelegates would rather the “civil unrest” (aka riots) be blamed on those “racist” republicans rather than on the democratic party if BO doesn’t win in the general.

It’s going to be more contentious this electon than the Bush/Gore election, imo.

Nineball on April 17, 2008 at 9:52 AM

This is the perfect storm, and McCain wins. Big.

Never forget superdelegates are superpoliticians, whose 1st and foremost priority above all things is to get re-elected. They will NOT do anything to jeopardize the gravy train. It’s Obama v McCain, and Hillary is going to use her superpowers to dig up and expose all the dirt there is on him in her failed effort to win the nomination. Talk about chickens coming home to roost! Wright is prophetic.

JustTruth101 on April 17, 2008 at 9:47 AM

I like your confidence, but I’m still scared to death that voters will be stupid enough to make Obama POTUS if he gets the nomination.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 9:52 AM

The DNC gets what they disserve. Look at the string of loony left meatheads they have run ever sense Dukakus. Gore is a goofball who won the lotto with free Google stock. Kerry is a flake, and we all know the poop on Hillary and Obama. Even Bill needed stain master carpet in the Oval office.

What worries me it the Republican Party choosing McCain. His amnesty performance was an inexcusable disgrace. What are the Republicans thinking?

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 9:53 AM

One thing is certain. This country is hopelessly and irreconcilably fractured and divided. Perhaps it is time to consider a peaceful, negotiated redistribution of the land mass and its resources between the left and the right. Continuation of the current political chaos is both degenerative and counterproductive. In the past we have always found a common ground or a rallying point to bring us together . . . now there is none and the social, spiritual, political, and economic deterioration has become pronounced.

Sad but true.

rplat on April 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM

I imagine Bill Richardson is contemplating his political future and sweating a bit.

a capella on April 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM

Will the superdelegates act on their responsibility to avoid that? Or will they essentially make themselves irrelevant?

They know if the go with Hillary it will turn the convention into 1968 and destroy the party for a generation. They’d rather lose an election than destroy the party. That doesn’t mean some won’t try. And just means once things start getting dicey they’ll all jump to Obama’s side for the sake of peace.

TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

You are exactly right Indy and that is why I hope this all plays out at the dem. convention rather than after the general election.

I think things are going to get u-g-l-y unless BO wins the presidency. I also think the superdelegates would rather the “civil unrest” (aka riots) be blamed on those “racist” republicans rather than on the democratic party if BO doesn’t win in the general.

Yep, that’s what I’m seeing too. The violence will be less if Obama’s loss comes at the DNC, not in the general election though, because Hillary still does have lots of supporters among African Americans like Emanuel Cleaver out of Kansas City, who is a good guy, and a real preacher in addition to being a Dem congressman.

My support for Hillary at this point isn’t just chortling about some Rush invention.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 9:56 AM

We’re doooooommmmmmmeeeeddddd. Dooooommmmmmeeedddd.

Again, I got it. We’re doomed.

mjk on April 17, 2008 at 9:56 AM

I just don’t believe in this Denver daydream everyone is having. Hillary is going to fall on her sword after PA. I know, I’m probably the only fool on the planet who thinks that. If she does, and Obama gets May-Aug to steady down, then Johnny Mac will be on the short end of 1984.

Limerick on April 17, 2008 at 9:56 AM

Not to mention the death of any further presidential aspirations Obama might have. Say what you want about Democrats – they don’t re-nominate losers. (They just canonize them.)

amkun on April 17, 2008 at 9:40 AM

Don’t lose any sleep worrying about Barry’s future-my guess is that if he loses, he’ll eventually move back to his childhood home of Hawaii and run for Senator Inouye’s seat.
Inouye hasn’t got too many years left-he’s almost as old as Bobby Byrd.

Why be a Senator from snowy Chicago when you can just as easily be a rock-star Senator from the Aloha State?

Del Dolemonte on April 17, 2008 at 9:58 AM

So is he going to tell them what to do, or decide what to do by what they tell him? He distinctly said he would do both, in classic Slick Willie 2.0 triangulation style.
fogw on April 17, 2008 at 9:40 AM

Yes,

This is the same fella’ who says, he’s looking forward to that debate with McCain.

Flash: McCain will tear him a new sphincter.

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 10:00 AM

If Obama wins in November, we’ll have to change POTUS to POSUS

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Hussein has the votes. Is it hard to see?

And if the “elders” go against him (against Black people), the 2008 riots won’t be a “hyperbole.”

We are on the verge of a civil war in the Democratic Party and the country.

Hussein succeeded -with the help of the media- in playing the race card and establishing himself as the Affirmative Action candidate.

It’s too late, and impossible to go any other direction now.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:42 AM

I don’t see how blacks who support Obama can lose. If he gets the nomination taken away, they destroy the party/convention/denver/dnc whatever as revenge. If he gets the nomination and wins, nirvana. If he gets the nomination and loses, re-affirmation that nothing has changed in America, the civil rights movement needs to continue for eternity, and that the struggle continues. In all cases, vindication of their position.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 10:01 AM

If Hussein is not president, Lost Angeles riots of 1992 will look like a walk in the park compared to the potential riots of 2008.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Old, white liberals who live and work on university campuses don’t riot. Leftist columnists who write for the major newspapers don’t burn down buildings.

You might see a few angry college kids doing sit-ins for a few months, and I imagine the Dems convention will be interesting, but I don’t see anyone taking to the streets.

You will, however, see many strong letters to the editor.

Asher on April 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM

OMG!
HOLD THE PRESSES!
A black man just got brutally mugged by an elderly white woman!

Where’s Charles Bronson when you need him..

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Quote of the Day!!
Awesome.
MAN BITES DOG

shibumiglass on April 17, 2008 at 10:04 AM

One thing is certain. This country is hopelessly and irreconcilably fractured and divided. Perhaps it is time to consider a peaceful, negotiated redistribution of the land mass and its resources between the left and the right. Continuation of the current political chaos is both degenerative and counterproductive. In the past we have always found a common ground or a rallying point to bring us together . . . now there is none and the social, spiritual, political, and economic deterioration has become pronounced.

Sad but true.

rplat on April 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM

Don’t kid yourself. The country was divided right from the start. The lines of division change over time but the divisions are always there and they are always contentious.

TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2008 at 10:05 AM

Old, white liberals who live and work on university campuses don’t riot. Leftist columnists who write for the major newspapers don’t burn down buildings.

You might see a few angry college kids doing sit-ins for a few months, and I imagine the Dems convention will be interesting, but I don’t see anyone taking to the streets.

You will, however, see many strong letters to the editor.

Asher on April 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM

You obviously weren’t around in 1968, when Abby and Jerry and Bobby Seale handed the election to Richard Nixon on a silver platter by rioting in Chicago. And think of Jesse and Al and all the angry semi- and unemployed morons they can drum up.

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 10:08 AM

What worries me it the Republican Party choosing McCain. His amnesty performance was an inexcusable disgrace. What are the Republicans thinking?

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 9:53 AM

I know I’ve said this before, and no one believes me, but if you analyze this to the Nth degree, it looks obvious: McCain is set up to win – to drag the R party sharply to the left.

You know what’s facinating? A couple weeks ago Rush almost said *IT*. He almost said we need to start a new party. But he caught himself in time and went to a profit center break. It was so close. I nearly wet myself.

shibumiglass on April 17, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Asher, do you live near a lot of black Americans? My guess is that you don’t. If Obama is the nominee and then goes down big time to McCain, there will be riots in Montgomery, AL for sure. You should hear local (black) talk radio down here….the Wright-style preachers have the people beyond primed for this.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Don’t kid yourself. The country was divided right from the start. The lines of division change over time but the divisions are always there and they are always contentious.

Yes, but in my 70 plus years there was always a flickering light at the end of the tunnel. Now, there is only darkness.

rplat on April 17, 2008 at 10:11 AM

Start your 3rd party after this election. You need to vote to keep Obama out of the White House.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:12 AM

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Damn, funky, you are putting some ice in my coffee this morning. I pray it doesn’t come to that.

Limerick on April 17, 2008 at 10:13 AM

Start your 3rd party after this election. You need to vote to keep Obama out of the White House.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Right on, “funky chicken” . . . well said.

rplat on April 17, 2008 at 10:14 AM

You obviously weren’t around in 1968, when Abby and Jerry and Bobby Seale handed the election to Richard Nixon on a silver platter by rioting in Chicago. And think of Jesse and Al and all the angry semi- and unemployed morons they can drum up.

TexasJew on April 17, 2008 at 10:08 AM

I remember. The dems looked like a bunch of commie pinko fags gays.

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 10:14 AM

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Your crystal ball, and mine, are on the same wave-length.

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 10:16 AM

I don’t see how blacks who support Obama can lose. If he gets the nomination taken away, they destroy the party/convention/denver/dnc whatever as revenge. If he gets the nomination and wins, nirvana. If he gets the nomination and loses, re-affirmation that nothing has changed in America, the civil rights movement needs to continue for eternity, and that the struggle continues. In all cases, vindication of their position.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Let me summarize it and be clear, this is for everybody:

Hussein will win the nomination and the presidency.

In both cases, the country (his voters) will handed it to him because he’s Black (Affirmative Action).

Now, trouble will occur only if he doesn’t get the nomination (a Superdelegates screw-up).

But in the mind of Black people, once Hussein gets the nomination, he is automatically the president because they are not counting McCain, he doesn’t exist for them.

So when I said that riots will also occur if Hussein is not president, I meant it figuratively.

See, Black people have high hopes in Hussein. Winning the nomination is as much as important as being the president.

In their mind, it IS being the president.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 10:17 AM

I don’t envy them at all. If they think Hillary is the more rational candidate with the best chance of winning they cannot vote for her because the crazies will scream RACISM to the point the dem party cracks.

Problem is, crazies are a very large portion of the Dem Party.

EJDolbow on April 17, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Start your 3rd party after this election. You need to vote to keep Obama out of the White House.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Abso-freakin-lutely.
Although, I still don’t think BO will get the nom. But now’s still not the time to split…

shibumiglass on April 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM

Given a dead heat (make of that what you will!) for the remainder of the primary season, the Dems may have no choice but to turn to a third candidate. I speculated here.

MrLynn on April 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM

In fairness, Ed, I disagree a bit here, just as a point of logic. When a person offers a counterexample or analogy to illustrate what he feels is an illogical position, he’s not necessarily equating the things under discussion. I see this often in political discussion. Someone will mention tactics they feel are reminiscent of Nazism, and they will be accused of “equating” the object of the analogy with Hitler. Analogies are not equations.

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 9:32 AM

To a point you are right. But isn’t they way you argue against this kind of an analogy to show that the analogy and the analogue are not, in fact, analogous? And the way to do that is to point out the dissimilarities between them, no? For example, if, in some future world, the Secretary of Transportation would make Amtrak run like clockwork, one of his political enemies might offer the following analogy: “Secretary X has done a great job–too great. Like Hitler, he has made the trains run on time.” Doesn’t Secretary X now get to point out how he is more different from Hitler than he is alike? So while analogies are not equations, it is fair to compare the analog and the analogy.

smellthecoffee on April 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM

In their mind, it IS being the president.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Wait a minute. Probably a few might think that way, but there are millions more that understand the show. If he tanks, most blacks will see it for what it is.

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 10:20 AM

The Obamatrons hear any criticism of Barry (just or unjust) as veiled bigotry, racism, and hatespeech.

Nothing will change their blinkered opinion of his HOPECHANGE splendidness.

Denver will be rockin’.

profitsbeard on April 17, 2008 at 10:24 AM

smellthecoffee on April 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM

I find your question interesting, and hope you are right because I found Obama’s comment about Coburn to be both insulting and ridiculous.

But… I should point out that in Germany, the trains always run on time, no matter who is in power. You are perhaps referring to Italy and Mussolini, and/or the rest of the latin world, where punctuality is seen as teutonic, and where being on-time is seen as a form of art.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 10:24 AM

It’s just very important for Hillary to get the superdelegates to see the light. She’s gotta win PA big and then roll through IN, WV, and hopefully even NC.

I can’t imagine any joe six-pack in NC voting for Obama after gettting to watch the Duke non-rape thing up close and personal, and hearing Wright, and Michelle Obama, and Meeks, and Ayers, etc, etc.

But again, I’m not confident of the wisdom of the voters. Aristotle had a top limit for a possible functioning polis, and we are way, way past it. He may have been right in concept if not in the precise number.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM

In their mind, it IS being the president.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Wait a minute. Probably a few might think that way, but there are millions more that understand the show. If he tanks, most blacks will see it for what it is.

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 10:20 AM

He will not “tanks.” Again, reality tells me that he won’t. Even after all the attacks on him, he gets more votes. And Blacks know that and they won’t allow anybody to screw their brother.

Indy Conservative on April 17, 2008 at 10:29 AM

Aristotle had a top limit for a possible functioning polis, and we are way, way past it. He may have been right in concept if not in the precise number.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM

Could you please tell me a little about that, or give me a link. I’m interested in hearing what he said about that topic.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 10:30 AM

JD, I am googling right now. It’s been a long time :-) but he talked about it as a part of his discussion of democracy vs oligarchy, etc.

I’ll keep trying for a while, but gotta go pay bills (fun!) in a few minutes

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:35 AM

Thanks funky. I was about to ask for the same thing.

shibumiglass on April 17, 2008 at 10:36 AM

saiga on April 17, 2008 at 10:20 AM

“Most Blacks” didn’t participate during “Watts”…”Most Blacks” didn’t participate, after the assassination of King…”Most Blacks” didn’t participate after the debacle of the “Rodney King” decision.

Sure was a lotta’ stuff burnt up, though.

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 10:38 AM

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:35 AM

Thanks. I looked quickly, but didn’t find anything. I’m interested because I have the same fears, but my thoughts aren’t fully developed, so I thought I’d take a short-cut and save myself some thinking if Aristotle had something to say on the topic :)

Thanks for looking.

JiangxiDad on April 17, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Here’s a starting point, but can’t find a specific quote/blurb explicitly talking about size of population vs ability to have good government with common aims at happiness and virtue, blah blah

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-politics/

Oh, and I hated this guy when I was forced to study him, FWIW. I majored in hard sciences to get away from humanities couses, so somebody else would be more qualified to discuss this for sure, or to tell you I was mistaken in my understanding….

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:51 AM

smellthecoffee on April 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM

Yes, exactly. I just think that claiming the first person was “equating” his opponent with Hitler is an overreaction, and not really logical.

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 10:54 AM

This thing might just dwarf the Rodney King riots.

Niko on April 17, 2008 at 10:58 AM

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 10:51 AM

One of the things I love about this site. Learning not only from the bloggers, but from my fellow commenters as well.

mikeyboss on April 17, 2008 at 10:58 AM

Obama looked really BAAAD in last night’s debate, not only when questioned about his “bitter” comment and Ayres, but he also got tripped up twice about economic policy–once on capital gains taxes, which he wanted to raise even though revenues might decrease, and once on raising the cap on Social Security taxes, which would increase taxes on people making between $97K and $200K per year.

But it remains to be seen whether PA voters turn against Obama in large enough numbers to make the super-delegates believe he is un-electable. Somehow, there hasn’t yet been much reaction in the polls to the “bitter people clinging to religion and guns” remark, so the super-delegates will probably wait until Tuesday night. If Clinton wins PA by less than 10 points, they will probably sit on the sidelines, and wait for future developements, whereas if Clinton wins PA by a blowout, they might decide that the Teflon has worn off Obama, and Clinton might be the better candidate.

Here’s hoping that Operation Chaos continues at least until June, and that there still isn’t a Dem nominee until the convention. Obama will probably still eke out the nomination, but there should be plenty of skeletons in his closet by then. In addition to Wright and Ayers and whatever other gaffes Obama might make by then, there will be 4 more months of the Rezko trial, which will probably make McCain look like Mr. Clean next to Obama.

I’ve got to hand it to the ABC moderators of the debate–finally some tough questions for Democrats!

Steve Z on April 17, 2008 at 11:04 AM

It’s interesting to read the ocmments here.

Let me ask a simple question (It’s only a question)…

If Barack were white (i.e. McGovern), do you think the Super Delegates would have a problem going with Hillary?

Again, this brings up the “Judge him on his color, not the content of his character”.

The purpose of the Superdelegates WAS, and is, to “right the wrong”, to look at the party’s nomination and change the direction should the need arise as Ed pointed out with Carter and McGovern.

I think the Dem’s are in a really tight spot. Watching the after debate discussion, between 20 – 40% of the people polled said that they would vote for McCain vs. “the other guy/girl”.

With that being said, even if it’s only 10% of the people, that’s a major landslide victory.

Great piece though, the SuperDelegates are getting very little sleep!!!!

HarryStar on April 17, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Niko on April 17, 2008 at 10:58 AM

And, therein lies the dilemma for superdelegates…

Blood in the streets, or a candidate with serious character, honesty, and integrity flaws.

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 11:08 AM

I have to take exception to some of the discussion about LA & Rodney King.

This is just as stupid/moronic as Obama’s comparing Ayers to Coburn.

The implication that because “The People” didn’t overwhelmingly vote for Obama, that “those bitter black folks” are going to riot in the steets is just stupid.

The reason behind it is that during the verdict, none of the people in the streets had any say in the matter.

Here, CLEARLY, the voting process is up to them.

We’ve all seen them, they come in MANY colors:

“My candidate didn’t win, I can’t believe he lost”.

“Did you vote for him”

“No, I don’t vote…but I’m REALLY upset about it”.

This comparision to what happened in LA is quite a stretch.

HarryStar on April 17, 2008 at 11:17 AM

HarryStar on April 17, 2008 at 11:17 AM

I don’t think so. Howard Dean’s fumbling the ball on seating the Florida and Michigan delegates, plus the superdelegate issue, present the image of the nominee being selected by behind the curtain manuevering. For anyone looking for a reason to protest in the streets, those two issues should be sufficient.

a capella on April 17, 2008 at 11:29 AM

HarryStar on April 17, 2008 at 11:17 AM

You’re clearly missing the problem.

If superdelegates override their votes………….?

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 11:29 AM

The reason behind it is that during the verdict, none of the people in the streets had any say in the matter.

Here, CLEARLY, the voting process is up to them.

Well, no. The popular vote and the Democrat college clearly tell that Obama is the candidate. If the superdelegates ignore both, how is that different from the Rodney King case?

Niko on April 17, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Nineball on April 17, 2008 at 9:52 AM

Obama doesn’t do well with Latinos. No matter how he is viewed by the conservatives of his own party, McCain does very well with Latinos. Demographically Latinos are a faster growing minority than Blacks. The Latinos who voted Dem in 2006 will break for McCain.

Obama does very well at caucuses. He is vulnerable to the Bradly effect in non caucus elections – like the general.

He has done quite well, against Hillary, in states the Dems have no chance of carrying. She has beat him in Florida and was within 100,000 in Ohio. To win the general the Dems have to get 2 out of 3 in Ohio, Florida and Penn. It will only take 5% of Hillary’s people sitting out the general in one of those states to make it impossible for Obama to carry it. McCain is sure to carry at least one of those all on his own (maybe more but for the sake of argument lets just say one). With Hillary’s people bitter (and believe me they are/will be bitter) there is a good chance there will be 5% of them who will sit out the election.

I think you are right that the supers are willing to forgo winning 2008, and blame that loss on the racist repubs, rather than give the nomination to Hillary.

talking_mouse on April 17, 2008 at 11:40 AM

If superdelegates weren’t aware of Obama’s spectacular weaknesses before last night, they know them now. Under pressure, Obama looks lost and sounds unprepared.

Perhaps because he’s never faced a tough election? He’s never run against a strong Republican contender before. Hell, he’s (obviously) never even faced a strong primary challenge before.

That has to be on the minds of superdelegates.

its vintage duh on April 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM

HarryStar, don’t understand math too well, do you? Obama loses the general election in a landslide. Blacks are a minority of the population. Which means the majority (Whitey) voted against their man.

Riots in the streets.

funky chicken on April 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM

I think you are right that the supers are willing to forgo winning 2008, and blame that loss on the racist repubs, rather than give the nomination to Hillary.

talking_mouse on April 17, 2008 at 11:40 AM

Then the donks become the party of the misogynist. If McCain wants to be helpful in that regard, he can appoint several women to high ranking posts in his administration, and let the conservative talking heads emphasize the lack of gender discrimination in the GOP. It’ll have more bite now than when Clinton did it, because the audience is primed.

a capella on April 17, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Howard Dean, and the DNC, should be run outta’ town on a rail.

After all, it was they who, in their zeal to manipulate the election process, created the superdelegate fiasco.

Now, the superdelegates are being held hostage by their very own terrorists.

poetic justice

franksalterego on April 17, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Old, white liberals who live and work on university campuses don’t riot. Leftist columnists who write for the major newspapers don’t burn down buildings.

You might see a few angry college kids doing sit-ins for a few months, and I imagine the Dems convention will be interesting, but I don’t see anyone taking to the streets.

You will, however, see many strong letters to the editor.

Asher on April 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM

I like your version of the meltdown better than those calling for/cheering for riots. I predicted burning buildings in Detroit, but that’s just a lively Saturday night anyway.

For the record – I certainly hope Obama’s leftist exposure and subsequent meltdown go peacefully and lawfully.

Jaibones on April 17, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Crackerquiddick- priceless Ed!!

Tom

marinetbryant on April 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Rush is giving the super delegates advice: Find yourself a third candidate now because the ones you have are incompetent and cannot withstand the scrutiny of a general election.

Buy Danish on April 17, 2008 at 12:48 PM

The treasonous socialist party is melting down before our eyes. What a pity.

“No, don’t throw that water! Ohhhhh! You cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! Melting!”

Akzed on April 17, 2008 at 12:51 PM

More on Rush and the super delegates -

Rush is calling it the “Doomsday option” and says it’s time to stop clinging to 2 bitter candidates.

Buy Danish on April 17, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Superdelegates exist in the Democratic party for one purpose: to invalidate the popular vote when disaster looms.

Even Democrats admit that Democrats shouldn’t be trusted with important decisions.

29Victor on April 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM

And so the point I was making was that when people feel like Washington’s not listening to them, when they’re promised year after year, decade after decade, that their economic situation is going to change, and it doesn’t, then politically they end up focusing on those things that are constant, like religion.

…therefore, if government did it’s job right, people wouldn’t need religion?

Sounds like a John Lennon song.

29Victor on April 17, 2008 at 12:59 PM

He distinctly said he would do both, in classic Slick Willie 2.0 triangulation style.

He’s studied the “slick” Meister, and has surpassed him in triangulation, except it failed him last night in attitude. One can’t hide one’s nature, never. As you eloquently said:

Me thinks the wordsmith tripped over his tongue last night, and it won’t be the last time. I would describe his performance as a stroll down the runway modeling his unattractive empty suit…

fogw on April 17, 2008 at 9:40 AM

I’d add, the Emperor was unveiled last night, and the suit will never fit, the way it used to, never again. These moments are telling, do stick, and will become memorable.

Entelechy on April 17, 2008 at 1:00 PM

When a Democrat says, “The fact is…” they are getting ready to lie to you.

Red Pill on April 17, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Okay, I’m back.. and I read this great comment about the debate over on the Washington Post. You have to see this–Obama really bombed last night for this quote to have been written.

Sorry for the length of it, but it is amazing: this is what we are up against.

This guy calls Hillery Goebbels, says Obama is better than Lincoln, and then explicitly calls him Saviour. Oh, and if we elect Obama, we will save the planet from the human race. Yes, “we are the enemy.” I guess we should vote for Obama to be all killed off.

Here’s the quote:

argos wrote:
The debate was obscenely even-handed and the real victims were the American people. This sort of professional impartiality is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I will never ever ever watch ABC ever ever again! I’m so mad I could just explode! I could twist my head off and heave it right through the t.v. screen. Barak should have shook his head in disgust and marched off the stage. He really should have. There was not ONE SINGLE QUESTION about Hope, Hope for the future, Hope for change, or Change per se. NOT ONE! This is journalism? Ha! Fascism! That’s what it is. Yellowdickcheneywarpig journalism! And America better wake up to the LIES, or we may just one day be waking up to Nazi jackboots kicking down our doors in the middle of the night. Because that’s what Gibson is: a Nazi. Snuffleupagus: a Nazi. ABC: the Reichstag. Hillary Clinton: Joseph Goebbels. Wake up, America! Time to smell the Clintonmafia coffee burning on the stove. Barak Obama is the best thing that has EVER happened to this godforsaken country. He is John Fitzgerald Kennedy writ large. He is the TRUE Great Emancipator. We cannot lose this opportunity to turn it all around, people! We cannot allow Hillary Herbert Walker Clinton and ABC News to destroy — to LYNCH! — this great man. There. I said it. And I don’t care, because it’s the truth. I love him. Okay? I simply love him. Barak must be allowed to speak. He must be allowed to speak to the great transformative issues of our day. We must all come together and stop the suffering. We must build bridges, not dig more canals. We must look ahead. Always ahead. But we must look back, too. We must have our Discourse on Race so that we can finally love one another and not lose sight of our abominable past just because it feels good. Sometimes you have to feel bad to feel good. And sometimes it feels good to feel bad. And we must clearly see who the true enemies are. Not Iraq. Not Islam. Not the poor people of Cuba and North Korea. No no. The enemy is us. We are the enemy, tho we are too cowardly to admit it. So we must fight back against those who would deceive us. We must bridge our divides and fight! Fight for the right! Speak truth to power! Break into their cellars and drink their wine! Free Tibet! End the genocide in Darfur! Save the planet from the human race! We CAN do this, if … if … we elect Barak Obama to be our president. Our Lord and Savior. If we come together, under God (or not), and BELIEVE in the goodness of Change.

That’s all I gotta say…. Except this: Don’t even think about trying to steal our nomination, Hildebeast. Because if you do, with the help of your racist sheep followers (and I cannot BELIEVE these people call themselves Democrats!), you will pay. You will leave Denver with bitter ashes in your mouth. This is Barak’s time. Not yours. You are not the answer. You’re the problem. And we will rot in hell before we ever let you win. In hell. Forever. Bank it.
4/17/2008 12:27:25

It got three recommends. Simply amazing. Do the Superdelegates want this mentality running rampant?

Vanceone on April 17, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Frankly, I see McCain getting less of the Republican vote than Reagan or either Bush, and slightly more of the Independent/Democratic vote. Either Hillary or Obama will turn out their slice of the Democratic base, I think enough to defeat McCain. They’re definitely going to raise more money, and have more ads and get-out-the-vote personnel. Throw in ACORN, etc. and I just don’t see a Republican victory in ‘08 with this candidate.

Makes me think a little deeper about the aristocratic notions of our founding fathers. They were doing a new thing with the revolution and popular vote, but didn’t make it a pure democracy- with good reason, I think. I wish we had a similar group of deepthinking statesmen & women in D.C. today. For all their (numerous) flaws, they developed an amazing system of governance which has served us well for over 2 centuries.

How much longer will it last?

cs89 on April 17, 2008 at 1:05 PM

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