Video: Fox reporter tears up over polygamist story
posted at 10:30 am on April 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
I’ve received a couple of e-mails on this clip, which brings up many issues at once. A Fox News co-host begins to cry when one of the mothers from the FLDS compound describes how federal agents removed her handicapped 5-year-old son from the El Dorado site and refused to release him back to her, even after explaining the necessary care he needs. Take a look for yourself:
This reminds me a little of a critical subplot in Broadcast News, the 1980s movie about telejournalism and the slipping standards of reporting. William Hurt’s character cries during a broadcast, and later we find out that it wasn’t exactly an honest response. Even if this was entirely authentic, and there isn’t any reason to suspect it isn’t, is it really appropriate for a news presenter to weep on camera when hosting an interview?It isn’t just an academic question. The FLDS sect stands accused of some pretty heinous child-abuse crimes. If those charges are substantiated, then the women Fox interviewed are either complicit in those crimes or brainwashed by sect leaders. A little emotional distance would seem more appropriate than to act out in the manner shown here, which biases the presentation rather strongly in favor of the women. The show’s producers brief their hosts on the subjects that will arise in the interview, and someone at Fox should have determined whether the host should have been reassigned.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »
Geez, they sound drugged or brainwashed, that’s for sure. I needed to drink an extra big cup of coffee just to get through that. Almost put me to sleep and it was just under a minute.
Torch on April 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Sorry Ed. But that shipped sailed a long time ago.
JiangxiDad on April 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM
I feel sorry for them but I think the entire situation was explained to them. It isn’t like they will never see their kids again.
echosyst on April 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM
They should have used Geraldo. Wait, he cried…
Well, Shep could’ve done it. Wait, he cried too.
Crap. I guess all that leaves is O’Reilly.
BacaDog on April 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Was this the interview with the woman with the enormous, cro-magnon forehead who was wearing a blue prairie dress?
James on April 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM
I don’t like Gretchen Carlson, but in her defense, I think she was probably tearing up over the fate of the children, not their mothers or fathers.
Buy Danish on April 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Loosen up, Ed. Her reaction to that mother’s story obviously took her by surprise, so I’m not sure any producer could have preemptively reassigned her. Maybe Bill Paley should have reassigned Walter Cronkite on Nov. 22, 1963, too.
rivlax on April 16, 2008 at 10:40 AM
I agree. Any semblance of the type of Journalism the film “Broacast News” attempted to portray as being compromised (first of all, it never really existed) and secondly has been completely dismantled. This was nothing.
AYNBLAND on April 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM
So all this was done on the basis of an anonymous tip? Has this tipster been identified yet? That being said, I’m sure the authorities will find something. They do amazing things with children and puppets these days. So here’s a question…If law enforcement moved into Muslim communities because of anonymous tips of polygammy and child abuse, do you think the story would have been handled differently? Would we be hearing some say we should respect their culture? Just asking.
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM
BINGO! These are adult women, not victims. They were complicit in these crimes, and the “brainwashing” excuse doesn’t cut it.
Is the “brainwashing” excuse available to the men that were part of this FLDS cult? Or just the women?
In this case, the law seems to be treating adult women as if they are not responsible for their own actions.
Enrique on April 16, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Sorry Ed, you missed on this one.
Wade on April 16, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Didn’t a BBC reporter cry on the air when Yassir Arafat’s death was announced?
mymanpotsandpans on April 16, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Why the entire nation is not crying here is the real question there Ed… Let’s see, 400+ children grabbed from a private religious site based on a single girl’s telephone call and now that complainant cannot be found? “Claims” of abuse led investigators to make a raid? Indeed some are saying she (who made telephone call) doesn’t even exist? Police tanks and high-powered weapons used to force separate children from adults in order to do an “investigation” of abuse? Exactly how many rights have to be violated here before all of America cries? Yes, perhaps individual accounts of abuse occurred at FLDS compound. Since when does that mandate greater abuse by the Texas State Child Protective Service of all children of Church?
IntheNet on April 16, 2008 at 10:44 AM
FYI… Gretchen Carlson is not a “reporter”, by any definition of the word I know of. She’s a model who’s paid to sit between two males – the show’s called “Fox and Friends”, remember, they’re not talking about ‘friends’ of the network – and look pretty. That’s it.
playblu on April 16, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Both? Come on. All wear the same dress. All wear the same hair style. Talk the same. Pod people.
ronsfi on April 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Captain Ed, what happened to your daily web radio show?
(or anyone else who knows)
ParisParamus on April 16, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Can the tears! The women in this cult have no compunction against forcing their well underage daughters to marry geezers in this cult.
Blake on April 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM
I saw this earlier today. F&F actually had two different segments with two different groups of three women. (Cro-mag woman was in the second segment.) It was completely freaky how alike they all were. Same flat intonation, same (oddly Irish-lite) accent, same non-answers to specific questions such as, “Are 14, 15, 16 year-old girls having children?” Response (in flat, robotic, monotone): “We are not aware of that…” When one woman was specifically asked if she had “sister wives,” she sat there with a blank stare, and then completely changed the subject.
Also, they were all holding something that looked like radio receivers in their hands. Were they wired in to someone who was telling them what to say?
Lan Astaslem on April 16, 2008 at 10:57 AM
I saw this live and Gretchen’s reaction took me by surprise because I expected her to be more professional. Yes, I know she’s human and we all have emotions. I agree with Buy Danish. I think she was empathizing with the plight of the 5 year old child.
Now, for the larger issue: the similarity to Waco. This is troubling to me. The SWAT team, the armored vehicle and the fact that they have this nebulous tipster. No one died in this incursion (thank God) but just because this “religion” isn’t like what most Americans practice doesn’t mean the government should be allowed to go in under made up reasonable suspicion arguments. If kids are being abused I want them taken care of but I also want the constitutional rights of ALL Americans protected. No More Wacos!
Terri on April 16, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Sorry Ed. But that shipped sailed a long time ago.
JiangxiDad on April 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Have to agree with you here… at least in terms of cable news. There might be some good journalism done by cable news networks, but in general, they’ve become some hybrid of news and entertainment.
Newtwork news is a little better. But 60 Minutes and PBS are the standard for which television journalism should be judged.
Tom_Shipley on April 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM
This needs to be hammered. There is absolutely no excuse for taking all these children. Find the people doing the abuse and throw them in jail. Pass laws and prosecute them to put a stop to the teen bride issue. Going in Waco style is just nuts.
Seriously, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t some nefarious collusion going on here. Canada is getting close to deciding the legality of polygamy in their court system. What better way to stack the decks than to get this going on TV.
ninjapirate on April 16, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Let’s be happy that Fox News is standing arm-and-arm with the ACLU to defend the rights of men to have sex with underaged children and alleged child molesters.
jim m on April 16, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Not to defend this rather bizarre cult, but who’s knocking up all those unmarried 14- and 15- year old minority girls all throughout our nation and foisting billions and billions of costs and social damage expenses to the taxpayers as well? Most of their “partners” are 18 years old or considerably older. Some, I can tell you, are much older family members. I’ll say one thing – hardly anyone ever gets jailed for that!
TexasJew on April 16, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Reminds me of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” when the one guy told McMurphy he could leave any time.
Maybe she was tearing up for the taxpayers who were funding the Compound to the tune of about $600 a month, per child?
DfDeportation on April 16, 2008 at 11:11 AM
This is the kind of crap that is widely accepted at Fox. Fox is gross.
Jaibones on April 16, 2008 at 11:13 AM
I don’t think Gretchen intended for that to happen. There could be several reasons why she did…..personal experience, thoughts about the children being frightened about what was happening, the alleged crimes against the children, and if those crimes turn out to be true how can these people do this. Maybe someone off camera became emotional and that started something. Who knows? If you’re looking for “stone faced” people to report on stories or do interviews regarding news of the day then look no further than the 3 women in the clip.
mwsivt on April 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM
The investigation has been impeded by the women and children giving false names and other false information to law enforcement. That in and of itself is a crime and demonstrates they are hiding the fact that the allegations are true.
Blake on April 16, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Historically, there’s some massive duplicity by the Feds on how to handle this. The Feds put their foot in it a LONG time ago, and should be putting their foot in it now. Problem with the whole situation is the completely dysfunctional nature of such a compound/society – they are entirely socially retarded, so having the gov’t come in only compounds the dysfunction.
I don’t think there’s any *nice* way of dealing with it. Some have suggested that the LDS Church come in, but it’s almost akin to having the Catholics do an intervention on an Amish community – they have nothing to do with them.
SkinnerVic on April 16, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Ed, that was hardly crying.
Stop hysterically distorting things. You’re starting to come across like a drama queen.
pabarge on April 16, 2008 at 11:18 AM
I’d feel more sympathy if they weren’t grooming the girls to marry old guys when they hit puberty, and expecting these young “wives” to perform “wifely duties” to some middle-aged guy when they are maybe 12 or 13.
Sekhmet on April 16, 2008 at 11:21 AM
First of all, I’m sure those children are being well cared for and secondly, those women are zombies . . . they make the Manchurian Candidate look like a free thinker. Bravo to Texas for busting this sick operation.
rplat on April 16, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Why did this thread fall off the main page? Why is it now in the “vault”? What are the rules here? Some of the other threads have been on the main page for days.
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM
I think the point he was making is that it’s possible that those women had no idea what was going on in which case there were no actions of theirs that could be considered criminal.
Esthier on April 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM
I can’t fault Gretchen C. here. I almost choked up at another point where a woman described her child “burying her head” in her mom’s shoulder when told she’d have to leave.
That said, these women did seem to lack some kind of vital force or something. They looked dead inside.
mikeyboss on April 16, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Or perhaps that even if we don’t believe these people are innocent they should still be afforded their rights and treated as if they are innocent until proven guilty. Amazing concept. Look at this thread. This is a conservative web site and people who post here presumably want to conserve the Constitution?
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 11:32 AM
http://www.comcast.net/entertainment/articles/2008/04/15/ENTERTAINMENT-FRANCE-BARDOT-MUSLIMS-DC/
When will it happen here???
Jeff_Boeing on April 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM
I’m sorry, but referencing a movie as a way to interpret a real event is something that is just bizarre.
indythinker on April 16, 2008 at 11:37 AM
It’s like a Broadway-bound play that doesn’t make it out of New Haven.
horatio on April 16, 2008 at 11:38 AM
It seems pretty clear what will happen.
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Yes stands accused ….. which is very different than has been convicted of. To me this looks like Waco Texas all over again. These people’s children have been taken from them because of one allegation of wrong doing by one sixteen year old girl. Has this country of ours decided to totally disregard the principle of innocent until proven guilty? Look at all the harm and disruption of lives…. over one girls allegation.
Maxx on April 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Actually I think it was my mistake as it’s on the main page now.
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 11:40 AM
I agree with you. I said in an earlier post that there are similarities to Waco here that we need to heed. The constitution MUST be revered and followed even when we don’t like the group or people involved. Come on folks, we all know what’s right here. If any kids are being abused we all want them getting care. We all want the bad guys prosecuted. The constitution must be followed.
Terri on April 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Hi I’m Jack Meoff.
If it is a crime to give false information to the police, and I assume it is, I don’t think that proves they are guilty of anything other than resenting strangers taking their kids.
I certainly hope they find the person who made the call and if their allegations are true then the perpetrators should be punished. OTOH, if this is a colossal overreaction by law enforcement and Texas CPS I hope that heads roll.
Bill C on April 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM
The 2nd interview by Gretchen was even weirder and, I thought, inappropriate. It appeared at one point that Gretchen was trying to do an on-air intervention with the women to come clean about being abused. Very strange, unsettling and unprofessional in terms of her pseudo-anchor role.
I think it would have been better for her and her pseudo-co-anchors to ask open-ended questions. If better questions had been asked, it would have probably shed more light on life at the compound and whether they was any potential abuse.
sheesh on April 16, 2008 at 11:44 AM
It’s not off the main page.
Esthier on April 16, 2008 at 11:46 AM
I thought Carlson’s reaction seemed a little phoney. Maybe she was trying to get these robotic women to open up to her. Not a bad strategy, if true, but probably a waste of time. I’ve seen dead fish with more life in them than the three women in the clip.
Infidoll on April 16, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Why does all of this sound familiar to me?
logis on April 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Something is horribly eerie about that FLDS cult. I’m just grateful that they didn’t decide to go the Waco route.
On an related topic — I really hope the LDS church steps up and adopts/fosters/cares for all of those children (and the women too, to the extent they’re brainwashed/Stockholmed victims and not morally culpable parties). The State of Utah was a compromise to allow LDS members the opportunity to self-govern within our constitutional system. Because of LDS queasiness about cracking down on polygamists, those FLDS people were able to build an entire CITY in southern Utah to host their alleged polygamist/child molestation activities. The Utah authorities should have nipped those guys in the bud decades ago. They didn’t, and now we have splinter sects sprouting up all over the place.
P.S. I sincerely hope the Texas people find hard evidence that polygamy and child molestation were taking place there. Otherwise, this raid is going to look and smell very bad.
Outlander on April 16, 2008 at 11:56 AM
I take his point. My point is that the men who were involved in this FLDS cult were also “brainwashed” into believing that it was appropriate to marry and have sex with 15-year-old girls. That’s what they were brought up to believe, but somehow I don’t imagine that the men of the FLDS will be able to play the “brainwashing” card to generate sympathy or avoid criminal prosecution (nor should they).
I’ve had conversations with my friends about this FLDS cult, and they all want to make excuses for the women, and act as if the men were the ones who committed crimes. If any crimes were committed here, both men and women were responsible.
I just hate it when the law treats men unfairly.
Enrique on April 16, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Pure?
Indeed! Is there nothing more pure than your husband rolling off wife number seven onto wife number eight(?)… never mind the smell, you need to wake up miss#8, I’m going for a record tonight.
And the delayed monotone answers, like they are remote from the artic circle. So very odd… zombietrons.
How could a parent, especially of a daughter, find this anything but bizaare?
Thank God Texas is investigating.
The female bearers of children who were interviewed seemed to reveal the cause and effect of this “lifestyle”… they seemed so un-special, so un-unique, so non-personality… how awful is that, how demeaning, being in a “marriage” where you know that you will never ever be enough of a wife for your husband.
Ugh…
christophercube on April 16, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Time to call Islam Mohammed’s “polygamous sect,” if the media has any shred of fairness. Just kidding on that last part. Of course Islam will continue to get special treatment until we’re all subjugated under the dhimma or converted, living in our sharia-mortgage homes with four mutilated girls.
Beagle on April 16, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Apparently, no one in the media is worried about the massive amounts of sociopathic behavior created by the Welfare State.
Ten million families a year get destroyed; that’s all perfectly fine. It’s only when there’s religion involved that the media suddenly gets all teary-eyed.
logis on April 16, 2008 at 12:04 PM
I can’t believe some of you are letting the FLDS off the hook. That anonymous tipster was not the first one to allege abuse. Others have escaped from these polygamous compounds not just in Texas, but all over the Southwest. And I can’t believe some of you are excusing the Branch Davidians at Waco just because the Feds f***ed it up.
mram on April 16, 2008 at 12:07 PM
No one has said that this sect or its members have been convicted of a crime. They’ll have their day in court.
The only question is what steps to take in the interim before there’s a complete hearing (and appeals, probably).
If there was child abuse going on, would you want the Feds to have taken no protective steps before the hearing? Or would you rather have the abuse continue and have the nutcase in charge order everyone to commit mass suicide just before the hearing because God told him to do that?
For the several of you who are tearing up over how David Koresh was a “victim” at Waco, remember that the Branch Davidians killed 7 or 8 federal officers initially and then likely killed most of their sect by keeping them in a burning building.
The only difference between the Branch Davidians and the Black Panthers seems to be that the Branch Davidians were more successfully at killing more Fed agents and more people than the Black Panthers, yet the Branch Davidians are apparently heroes to a few of the Texas fruitcakes that post on this board.
jim m on April 16, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Not quite. Many of the women were raised in the cult and haven’t really had the chance to think independently. Kind of like Republicans these days.
One might expect to hear something on conservative blogs about the idea that these children do not belong to the state but to (at least) their mothers. Why not separate the women and the children from the perverted fathers?
(Oh, as a side note, some (all?) of these women were receiving welfare because they were able to register as single mothers. And, another aside: apparently a few of these men were receiving mucho moola from a no-bid contract with the Pentagon, all the while it was known of their involvement with this cult.)
And wasn’t it just last year when Texas’s perverted governor bypassed congress to have 11 and 12 years old girls vaccinated against std’s, all because he himself was being blown in the cloakroom by Merck?
Can I expect conservatives at any time in the relatively near future get back to the idea that government is the problem, not the solution?
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:13 PM
I don’t mean to imply that you’re an idiot, but of course the fact that you can’t believe something doesn’t make it true.
In fact, for most people it’s usually the opposite way around. You just got lucky for once. But no matter how high the odds against it, that was bound to happen eventually.
logis on April 16, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Is this how you think of all religions you don’t agree with? They may be in violation of the law, and they may have practices you find offensive, but to lump them into the same group as Jonestown or Waco is simply unfair. Some practicioners of Islam think disgree with your way of life, but does that make you a fruitcake.
Dead Hand Control on April 16, 2008 at 12:17 PM
I love the hypocrisy here. These people are here of their own free will and stare right into the camera and state just that. BUT, that’s not good enough for the moral elite Christians who consider the Mormans and their lifestyle an abmonination and thus demand intervention for the obvious brainwashing these poor woman and their children must endure. I guess free will only applies to some silly story about an apple and a talking snake, huh?
DanKenton on April 16, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Who remembers the McMartin preschool allegations and trial back in the 1980’s ? It was another media circus where all the media were quick to jump on-board the child abuse bandwagon. The McMartins were treated disdainfully in the media, there was no doubt of guilt from the media presentation. But to be fair, it was actually a combination of over zealous media combined with over zealous prosecutors and bureaucrats.
The McMartin’s lost everything, their money, their dignity, their business and only narrowly escaped going to prison for the rest of their natural lives. All of that injustice because of allegations of abuse by children, they didn’t even have the “hotline” back then.
During the trial we were told by experts that children don’t lie, that the allegations had to be true, no matter how bizarre the claims and no matter that absolutely no physical evident could be found.
The McMartin’s were acquitted on all charges of course, after years of trial and after their lives had been totally destroyed. Their’s was only one case of child abuse hysteria that swept the nation in the eighty’s and nineties. Many innocent people that went to jail during that period were later totally exonerated. It was a modern day witch hunt. Have we learned nothing ?
The problem with child abuse allegations in this country is that they are so serious and so heinous that the accused is not afforded any of their Constitutional protections. The mere allegation is all it takes to have your life utterly destroyed, with total disregard to whether the person actually committed any abuse or not.
Maxx on April 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM
You’re missing what drives this moralizing, and it’s not all wrong: Mormonism is a heresy of Christianity and the perversion of polygamy (which is as old as Mormonism is — hence one of the more traditional American sexual perversions) is just that: perverted. So don’t get on Christians for jumping to fairly accurate judgements. I mean, it’s either brainwashing and/or collusion in sin.
What is most troubling is the ripping of children from their mothers on the presumption of guilt before proven innocence — the suppose rape and child abuse that has not been proven.
It can (and should) be argued that polygamy is a form of abuse, but the thing is that this cult has been a known entity for some time and nothing has been done about it.
So why now, except that the benevolent military state decided to flex some muscle?
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:28 PM
That’s a good point: How is this cult more “polygamous” than pretty much any Welfare project tenament complex?
If there’s some sort of proof that there’s child molestation, then why doesn’t the news call this a “child molestation cult?”
But they don’t. Instead they keep referring to it as a “Polygamy Cult.”
So why the sudden media outcry against the evils of extra-marital congress? It’s funny how self-congratulating hedonists magically turn into 16th-Century Quakers when they have a political axe to grind.
logis on April 16, 2008 at 12:31 PM
And I can’t believe some of you are excusing the Branch Davidians at Waco just because the Feds f***ed it up.
mram on April 16, 2008 at 12:07 PM
What is there to excuse them for? Oh, that’s right, they held some weapons with permits.
deesine on April 16, 2008 at 12:31 PM
I was in Texas when Bill Clinton attacked Mt. Carmel. I was stationed at Ft. Hood. My unit provided some of the support to the feds who were there. They came to my unit to get the body bags (I was the company commander). They did this before any of the shooting started, of course.
I want cooler heads this time. I want Texas and the Feds to not repeat any of the bad decisions that were made at Waco. I stood in front of a TV and watched their buildings burn knowing their bodies were inside. It should not have happened. I want my government to follow the law. I don’t care what religion or cult is involved I want the law AND the constitution obeyed.
Terri on April 16, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Absolutely! In my city, Child Protective Services (God, if ever there was an oxymoron, this is it) ruined the lives of numerous families all because one wicked woman (whose husband happened to be CEO of a really big fast food company whose mascot has a big head — like the woman) decided to bring charges that the children were being forced during Sunday school to sacrifice animals (in one account, an elephant) and perform sex on their teacher — who conveniently happened to have a congenital defect that made his head abnormally large and startling to see. His life was pretty much ruined by the fascist child protectors, though he was eventually proved innocent, after being presumed guilty. American justice being turned on its head … for the children’s sake, of course.
There were other occasions when CPS ruined families (destroying one man and his family — his wife divorced him) by falsely accusing him of molesting his daughter. Finally a grand jury stepped in and put a stop to it.
Polygamy ought not be legal. However, there were state provisions (welfare payments; no-bid Pentagon contracts; police protection) which helped keep this cult going, and without which there might have been less incentive for the men to indulge their evil.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Yes, this is how I think of all religions that keep their followers isolated from other human contact. That’s a common theme with this group, Waco and Jonestown. This particular group was apparently told that they would burst into flame if they came into contact with anyone outside the compound.
So, Maxx, the fact that people may be harmed by the accusation of child abuse is your reason for never investigating them? What Consititutional rights didn’t the McMartins receive? As far as I can tell, the McMartins were afforded all of their Constitutional protections, including the right to appeal, etc. That’s why they were ultimately not found guilty.
jim m on April 16, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Oh, I understand now! No need for restraint when dealing with this faith because it has roots in Mormonism. That makes a full-scale military style government raid of a peaceful community okay. Just raid the joint and pack everyone onto buses from the local Baptist Church and get some God into ‘em.
Dead Hand Control on April 16, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Would you mind providing a citation for that fun fact?
Dead Hand Control on April 16, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Thank you for your sanity and service. I couldn’t agree with you more.
rhombus on April 16, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Dude, re-read what I wrote! That’s the complete opposite of what I said. Jeez. Mormon, per chance?
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Where are the Illinois authority when it comes to the child abuse at that church called, hmmm, Trinity United Church of Christ.
Seems to be like a lot of kids are being abused there.
WoosterOh on April 16, 2008 at 12:47 PM
She is wearing enough makeup for all three of the church ladies.
RobCon on April 16, 2008 at 12:49 PM
There’s no crying in network news!!!!
Oh wait. That’s in baseball.
Nevermind.
pilamaye on April 16, 2008 at 12:51 PM
I’ve read the post several times – what are you saying with this?
So in the same post you are both validating the claims that there are no problems with this, but then condemning it?
Dead Hand Control on April 16, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Are you kidding? The McMartins were presumed guilty before proven innocent, their business shut down (and ruined), the state (with its sycophantic press towing the line) making them out to be devils incarnate. Added to this were sociopathic do-gooders who come in the name of “child protective services” who forced little children to conjure absurd scenarios about torture, abuse, etc.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:53 PM
So no evidence needed…. right Jim? The only thing required to be arrested and have your livelihood and business destroyed is the allegation. Because that’s what happened in the McMartin case.
You have a strange view of Constitutional rights. And you must have missed the part of my post about the number of innocent parents that spent years in jail on false allegations. Try researching “false child allegations of abuse” and see how many cases you come up with where the government and the courts disregarded due process because of the heinousness of the allegation.
Maxx on April 16, 2008 at 12:53 PM
It was on either CBS or NBC this morning.
jim m on April 16, 2008 at 12:53 PM
If we as a nation allow the government to go into a compound based upon ONE alleged complaint and separate all children from their parents, claim brain washing, claim sexual abuse to children, and other allegations, then everybody in the United States is subject to this same treatment, especially those who choose to home school, install religious values in their children (brain washing), or any other pretext that the state can come up with to destroy the family!
I think the judge who issued the warrant should be disbarred and thrown in jail. The judge issued a warrant based on a hearsay complaint from a women’s shelter! There is no recording of the phone call. The caller did not call 911 which automatically generates and recording. Since this alleged girl cannot be found after searching the compound for five days, one can assume that the call is fictitious.
The amount of manpower and firepower that the authorities used is reminiscent of all totalitarian governments around the world. Think Pol Pot, Karl Marx, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and other mass murders and dictators who want total thought control over their country’s populace.
Some questions one may ask is:
Are there any 24 year old mothers at the compound with children 8-10 years old? If so, how old is their husband? Any actual proof that 16 year olds were being force to marry 50 years olds?
Are there any pregnant 14, 15, 16, or 17 year olds?
The children have had medical examinations. How many of those examinations show evidence of abuse, either sexual or physical?
Is this raid reminiscent of the extermination order Governor Boggs issued in Missouri in 1838?
Question for all, When will the State of Texas issue extermination orders for the other sect/cult religions in Texas?
PrettyD_Vicious on April 16, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Maxx, what do you think the Constitution gives people in this case?
jim m on April 16, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Dear Jack: I would never think of interfering with you hobby of soliciting handjobs on the internet or your sympathy towards those who make young girls into sexual slaves. However, misleading the police and giving false info is evidence of consciousness of guilt.
Blake on April 16, 2008 at 12:56 PM
No, I’m saying that the claims that there are problems with polygamy ought not necessarily (or ever) be followed with the ripping of children away from their mothers.
But still, people are not wrong to consider this cult as being morally reprehensible. The problem (as usual) comes when these same people call in the state (with tanks) to make things right.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Dittos all round.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 1:01 PM
At least they are not having babies aborted at their local abortion clinic, then the Government would of seen no problems and instead would of protected the underage girls right to privacy and protect help them hide any abuse that may of happened.
WoosterOh on April 16, 2008 at 1:04 PM
I have no love for religions as a whole, but I don’t want to see people pulled from their homes because of it. Especially when you have one allegation that affects hundreds. When one dealer is caught in an urban housing project you don’t detain the whole project. Now I can see how Waco would have been accepted by the “right” or some of my supposed fellow “conservatives” if Bush would have been President. We currently have how many children running around without loving parents and we have such a problem with multiple parents? Then you are told that these people are brainwashed and whatever. Everyone that subscribes to a religion is brainwashed. The vast majority of people in this country BELIEVE that a dead man flew off a cross and some “accounts” of the “event” even say that numberous dead people rose from their grave on that day. Anyone who would make the same claims about an isolated incident today would be considered insane. But since an old ass book written by people who thought the world was flat think it happened then it must be true. The same BS spewed about Polygamy is the same stuff I hear from liberals with excuses like “peer pressure” and “society made them do it”.
LevStrauss on April 16, 2008 at 1:17 PM
especially on FOX. Tears for the poor benighted child victims of liberal government intervention. Red meat for the dittoheads.
Grow Fins on April 16, 2008 at 1:19 PM
WOW!
It is not surprising to me that SO MANY mormons here are defending these despicable child molesting sickos!
That is unconscionable!
You people need to seriously get your heads examined!
Or more importantly, you seriously need to reexamine your false religion, which promotes these kind of despicable acts!
SaintOlaf on April 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Actually, the perversion of polygamy goes back at least to Abraham (whose faith was a heresy of or apostasy from the religion of the Chaldees). This perversion (as you style it) was continued by his grandson Jacob, who in his turn sired twelve sons and a daughter.
You’ve got to be kidding.
Tzetzes on April 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM
And you wonder why normal Americans think some on the right are nutjobs….
Grow Fins on April 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Hey, if it worked for Patty Hearst, it can work for them too.
Grow Fins on April 16, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Oh, on second reading, I think you actually are. My apologies!
Tzetzes on April 16, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Nah, she was tossing red meat to folks like InTheNet.
Grow Fins on April 16, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I know. I only meant (but put it poorly) that polygamy in Mormonism is as old as Mormonism.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 1:27 PM
WOW!
It is absolutely AMAZING that it has taken Saint Olaf
nearly three hours from the posting of this story
before he jumped in
with his CAPS and bolds, exc!amation-marks
and many spaces
to call others to REPENTANCE!!!!!!
Tzetzes on April 16, 2008 at 1:28 PM
So we’re agreed? Condemn all Abrahamic polygamy. The Mormons had it wrong in the 1800s, these Texas Mormons have it wrong now, and it’s wrong in the Bible.
Tzetzes on April 16, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Of course I was. Actually, I was being incredibly cynical. What really troubles me is that many conservatives, of all people, are not outraged over this. Tanks were brought in! Good lord!
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Any excuse.
Grow Fins on April 16, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Don’t let your hatred of Mormons blind you to the abuse by the State.
And while your railing against the Mormons, why don’t you rail against the religion that their main theology actually condones polygamy,arranged marriages of 12 years olds to old men etc. Or is it that you are afraid to rail against this religion because of but cowardice by your part because if you create aspersions against Muslims, they issue a FATWA against you. Have a nice safe day in your bunker.
PrettyD_Vicious on April 16, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Well, it depends on what you mean by “condemn.” If you mean sending in tanks and guns and tearing innocent children away from their mothers, then no, we’re not in agreement. But if you simply mean calling it wrong and setting in place disincentives for it (this would call for some imagination — something a little more creative than “making a law” and ripping kids from mothers) then yes, we’re in agreement.
Drum on April 16, 2008 at 1:35 PM
I am pretty sure that Texas law doesn’t leave the authorities any wiggle room once a complaint of child abuse is made.
rgranger on April 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM
You’ll get no tears from O’Reilly. He’s pushing the story line that the kids were bred and raised to be sex slaves in a cult.
The video is down, I would love to see it. Is there a link somewhere else?
AprilOrit on April 16, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »