Hot Air Mobile
Home The Vault Gear About
Hot Air -- get your fill


Minnesota’s state-funded madrassa

posted at 12:30 pm on April 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

Minnesota doesn’t have school vouchers, but we have a fairly strong charter-school presence. In fact, the Little Admiral attends a foreign-language immersion charter school which does a remarkable job with its students. Charter schools are public schools, however, and cannot offer religious-based curricula. As Katherine Kersten discovers, that applies to every religion but one, apparently:

Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.

Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.

TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is “establishing Islam in Minnesota.” The building also houses a mosque. TIZA’s executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.

Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food – permissible under Islamic law — and “Islamic Studies” is offered at the end of the school day.

One reason that school-choice opponents offer for their refusal to consider school vouchers is the choice some parents might make to have their children attend parochial schools. They claim that would violate the separation of church and state by funneling state money to religious-based education. The flaw in that argument is that vouchers return money to parents normally confiscated to pay for the education of their children. It’s only the state’s money if one dismisses the fact that the taxpayer earns their income rather than treating it as an allocation from the government.

However, in this case, the state directly funds the school from its education budget. That means that the normal rules of public schools and religion should apply: no organized prayer, no religious instruction, and no connections to religious organizations. TIZA violates all of these rules, and more. Kersten takes the testimony of a substitute teacher who watched school assemblies based on Islamic prayer, having to supervise ritual washings, and the study of the Koran.

Imagine the outcry that would occur if any other public school asked students to study the Bible, even for a comparative literature course. Activists would shriek about the impending theocracy of the Bush-Cheney-Halliburton administration, and lawsuits would fly faster than anyone could say Pat Robertson.

Where is the state of Minnesota on all of this? They assured Kersten that they regularly visit charter schools like TIZA to ensure compliance with public school regulations. They have only conducted three such probes in the past 5 years — two during the 2003-4 school year and one in 2007. The school told state officials that the prayer and study of Islam was “voluntary”, but the teacher’s experience shows that it is incorporated into the curriculum of TIZA. Moreover, if schools offer “voluntary” programs in a religion, they have to offer them in all religions, which TIZA most certainly does not do.

The ACLU of Minnesota has started an investigation of its own into TIZA. The state’s Department of Education says they’ll now do the same. It’s time someone called a halt to taxpayer-sponsored madrassas in Minnesota, or else allow state funding for parochial schools of all stripes.  (h/t: HA reader Cory)


Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages:

As a person living in a neighboring state, why am I not surprised this could happen in the People’s Republic of Minnesota.

trs on April 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM

If we would just submit, all our problems would just vanish overnight.

tommylotto on April 9, 2008 at 12:37 PM

As a person living inside the People’s Republic of Minnesota, I am surprised it took this long.

Grafted on April 9, 2008 at 12:41 PM

The ACLU of Minnesota has started an investigation of its own into TIZA. The state’s Department of Education says they’ll now do the same.

I tend to support the ACLU on free speech and church/state issues, but one aspect of this story bothers me. I want to know when did the ACLU find out about what was happening at TIZA. Did Katherine Kersten’s reporting really catch them by surprise?

thuja on April 9, 2008 at 12:41 PM

I have never understood the reluctance to call Islam out when they’re wrong.

TooTall on April 9, 2008 at 12:42 PM

I have heard about so many issues with Minnesota I am not surprised. I feel bad for you Ed.

From what I thought was a joke, Drunk Plates, which actually IS a good idea to a degree. But how many States actually use them? And I never got a correct answer as to when people recieve them. Was it the first or second DUI strike? Ed do you know what I am talking about?

But does anyone think the ACLU will do anything concerning a muslim school? I doubt it.

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 12:42 PM

You would expect anger after September 11, 2001.

You would expect more scrutiny, more precaution, more vigilance, more concern, more retaliation.

But no, America has joined Europe in surrendering.

The opposite is happening, the more the Muslims attack us and invade our land and culture, the more we surrender and give in.

We became a nation of sissies.

Indy Conservative on April 9, 2008 at 12:43 PM

I am wondering why Christian and Jewish parents aren’t pitching a fit with this going on with their kids in these schools. I would be. I wouldn’t want my child being exposed to this. Inch by inch, mulsims are creeping in.
L

letget on April 9, 2008 at 12:44 PM

ACLU vs Islamists. Another matchup I’d love to see.

AbaddonsReign on April 9, 2008 at 12:45 PM

Somehow, I fail to be surprised by the lack of oversight into such an enterprise. After all, such oversight and discipline is racially and culturally biased against the fair and high-minded Islamic madrassa educators. CAIR is planning a rally of support, I’m sure.

Flyover Country on April 9, 2008 at 12:48 PM

I went to a public high school and I remember kids had to fight to even get to have an after school Bible study on the school campus. Yet this school serves Islamic food, has organized prayer and shares a building with a mosque? This goes beyond “voluntary” study of Islam or after-school student clubs. I’d like to know if there is a Hillel or a Christian Bible study group at this school? I’m guessing not. This, in my mind, absolutely qualifies as a school that promotes the Islamic faith and as a result should not be eligible for public funding. And Ed, your point about the outcry there would be if a school shared a building with a Church where kids prayed daily and had Bible-based assemblies that received state funding is well taken. The ACLU would be foaming at the mouth. The double standard is ridiculous.

mattyj86 on April 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM

But does anyone think the ACLU will do anything concerning a muslim school? I doubt it.

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Yes, they will. They have to, now that it has been exposed. The real question about the values of ACLU members is were they willing to turn a blind eye to a public Islamic school as long as it wasn’t generally known?

thuja on April 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM

It’s weird for me to think I might actually support the ACLU on something if they come down on the right side of this.

fanderbiles on April 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM

ACLU vs Islamists. Another matchup I’d love to see.

Word. Let’s see if the ACLU really will put its money where its mouth is.

mattyj86 on April 9, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Nice to see Minnesota doing its part to usher in the next generation of jihadists.

pilamaye on April 9, 2008 at 12:54 PM

“started an investigation”

~nayh, nayh, nayh, nayh, NAYH, nayh~
~I want hear what CAIR says~

eeyore on April 9, 2008 at 12:56 PM

The founders of this country are spinning and spinning and spinning in their graves.

This nonsense has GOT TO STOP !

stenwin77 on April 9, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Is the ALCU looking the other way?

jlemieu1 on April 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM

Imagine the outcry that would occur if any other public school asked students to study the Bible, even for a comparative literature course.

In Texas, they have offered a study course of the Bible as an elective. Even though it is not a required course, a couple of parents have already sued to have it stopped.

Nonsequitur on April 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM

I would think Michigan shouldn’t be far behind. Aren’t there loads of Muslims there too?
The double standard is disturbing.

Geronimo on April 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM

I am in Utah and we have a MUCH higher number of Mormons per capita than Minnesota does Muslims. Do we have Mormon schools? Sure, but they are private schools just like Catholic schools.

There are no charter Mormon schools even here in Utah. What is going on in Minnesota?

thomashton on April 9, 2008 at 1:02 PM

The ACLU is premised on protecting anti-social individuals from the majority culture. They do not realize that a functioning society that believes in individual rights is the basis of individualism. They spend their days defending those who attack our cultural traditions and values.

They are not, unbiased – though misguided – defenders of rights. They are actually against all Western majoritarian values. They will not attack the Muslims because they are both on the same side.

With all the Minnesota comments, we need to remember this is not a funny subject. Yesterday I went to an ISI sponsored lecture by a police officer that busted illegal tobacco smugglers who likely sent 100 million back home to Hezbollah. Hezbollah has nearly wiped out Christian Lebanon. This is not, ACLU, plurality in action. These people are intent on bringing down Western civilization. When there are only madrassas life will be unbearable; liberty will be dead.

http://www.culturism.us

culturism on April 9, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Cap’n Ed,

As a resident and taxpayer in the Great State of Minnesota, you have legal standing to file a lawsuit. Perhaps your readers would be willing to contribute a paltry dollar or two each to fund it. If the school receives any funding from Federal Sources, then anyone in the United States as a Taxpayer and Citizen would have the same legal standing. Does anyone know if Charter Schools in Minnesota receive supplemental federal funding? In addition, does Halal food pass muster with the Federal Dept. of Ed. mandates about nutritional guidlines? If not, then Federal funding should be yanked immediately, and an injuction issued to preclude this practice. There are a myriad of ways for State and Federal Government to deal with this issue without even having to resort to the Constitutional issue.

WFIGUY

wfiguy on April 9, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Minnesota … all I have to say is WTF? Between this, footbaths and cab drivers, what the hell is going on there? Boot the islamist scum out.

darwin on April 9, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Yes, they will. They have to, now that it has been exposed.
thuja on April 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM

No actually they don’t. ACLU has type like Shirley Phelps-Roper in it. The ACLU is anti-American, anti-Military and anti anything that is concidered common sense.

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 1:10 PM

Islam is not a religion it is a culture. That is a simple fact that most if not all progressives agree on. Only bigots and racists would label Islam religion. One of the main problems in this world is conservative bigots that refuse to see logic and simple facts. Christianity and Judaism are religions and should be treated as such but Islam is a quaint and beautiful culture with a long history which we should all embrace. I hope the ACLU does get involved and put the bigots in their place by supporting the right to teach different cultures and diversity in our public schools.

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Read the letter from the ACLU to Tarek. You can imagine the Academy saying “What?! Are you f’n kuffar crazy?!

eeyore on April 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Please tell me you are being sarcastic?

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 1:18 PM

Minnesota … all I have to say is WTF? Between this, footbaths and cab drivers, what the hell is going on there? Boot the islamist scum out.

darwin on April 9, 2008 at 1:09 PM

And the Flying Imams, AND Keith Ellison!

lizzee on April 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM

So I have to pay $5000 a year so my kid can escape the atrocious public schools around here and actually receive an education in a Catholic school, yet the Muslims get taxpayer money to teach their kids to hate this country and 95% of the citizens in it?

You are kidding, right?

NoDonkey on April 9, 2008 at 1:21 PM

eeyore on April 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM

Wow, this letter is seriously depressing. The ACLU asking at a minimum to stop recruiting for Friday Prayer. Then asking for fact, if they are incorrect or incomplete.

It was like they were trying not to “offend” them either, and the ACLU loves to offend people, businesses and organizations.

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM

So, does this Muslim school require sex education and condom give aways, like other public schools? Or are they exempt?

bloggless on April 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM

The ACLU is investigating? But they aren’t making a media circus out of it like everything else they do? Shocking.

Adamski on April 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM

I’ve been following Kersten for a year or two now. She’s done a good job of reporting on this, but she’s getting horribly marginalized. I wouldn’t want the hate mail she gets.

Ed, thanks for pointing out the following:

The flaw in that argument is that vouchers return money to parents normally confiscated to pay for the education of their children. It’s only the state’s money if one dismisses the fact that the taxpayer earns their income rather than treating it as an allocation from the government.

The new Islamic Cultural Center in NY has tried to use the same argument – that Islamic Studies courses are cultural in nature, not religious. Anyone who knows anything about Islam understands that Islamic culture is religious. They cannot be separated.

I sent the story to Robert also earlier this morning. He’s covered it before. I hope he’ll stay on it, although he’s otherwise productively occupied this week. Thanks for giving the story front & center attention.

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 1:34 PM

Christianity is considered a Western religion, so the Left opposes it. Islam is not considered a Western religion, so the Left doesn’t care. It’s perfectly consistent.

Nosferightu on April 9, 2008 at 1:34 PM

If we would just submit, all our problems would just vanish overnight.

tommylotto on April 9, 2008 at 12:37 PM

That’s pretty much what Keith Ellison said.

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM

I have one message to the jmarcures of the world…. get your head out of your collective a**es . General Roderigo will be avenged!

MNDavenotPC on April 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM

McCain should hold press conference to challenge Obama on this.

First call for this funding to be stopped on grounds of both First Amendment and stopping pork barrel spending.

Second, call out Obama by name at the press conference and ask him to support McCain’s proposal.

indythinker on April 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM

The building also houses a mosque. TIZA’s executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.

By the way, in a discussion about Romney the other day, one of our resident Mormons, who gave me some good info, mentioned that the LDS works with the same organization – Islamic Relief.

The LDS has included a disclaimer on the official site.

Church Clarifies Aid to International Relief Organizations

I would bet that other denominations are naively doing the same, but here is what Jeffrey Imm has to say about Islamic Relief over on the counterterrorism blog.

CNN Promotion of Islamic Relief Worldwide Group Linked to Jihadist Organizations

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 1:48 PM

The anti-Muslim bigotry on this thread is appalling.

Muslims get taxpayer money to teach their kids to hate this country and 95% of the citizens in it?

Boot the islamist scum out.

You don’t know what this school teaches. The issue is state-funding of a religious-school, not the fact that the school is Muslim.

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Why challenge Obama on this?

Because 95% of Americans are against this funding of Islam.

Yet, Obama has bigtime credibility in the Islamic world.

If Obama supports McCain’s proposal, he ruins his credibility in the Islamic world. If Obama fails to support McCain, Obama exposes his true agenda.

indythinker on April 9, 2008 at 1:51 PM

I have never understood the reluctance to call Islam out when they’re wrong.

TooTall on April 9, 2008 at 12:42 PM

People are reluctant because those critical of Islam are routinely beheaded and stoned or threatened with their lives. It’s as simple as that.

pullingmyhairout on April 9, 2008 at 1:52 PM

I always put a ham or bacon in the halal meat bins at the supermarket.

/oink!

Akzed on April 9, 2008 at 1:52 PM

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Anti Muslim? Nope.. I think it is more the fact that no one in here who sends their child to a private school (whatever that type of school it may be) and it is funded by their State or by Federal money.

Maybe you don’t see it that way… but it is a slap in the face.

upinak on April 9, 2008 at 1:53 PM

So I have to pay $5000 a year so my kid can escape the atrocious public schools around here

Think yourself lucky… private schools around here cost well over $20K per year.

Lehuster on April 9, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I’d like to know if there is a Hillel or a Christian Bible study group at this school?

mattyj86 on April 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Of course there are. They’re included in the Qur’an recitations. ;)

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I have one message to the jmarcures of the world…. get your head out of your collective a**es . General Roderigo will be avenged!

MNDavenotPC on April 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM

That comment by jmarcure HAD to be sarcasm.

awake on April 9, 2008 at 1:54 PM

“You don’t know what this school teaches.”

You are correct, but if it’s a Muslim school, it’s not a far stretch, or is it? How many “tolerant” sects of Islam are there other there?

Muslims are only tolerant of other religions when they aren’t observant. We need less observant Muslims in this country, not more.

NoDonkey on April 9, 2008 at 1:55 PM

Just one more sign along the road to “hell in a handbasket.”

If it’s good for one than it’s good for all. So when do the families paying for private schools get their cut?

VikingGoneWild on April 9, 2008 at 1:58 PM

“private schools around here cost well over $20K per year.”

This is for kindergarten/elementary school. High school runs about $20K.

Plus all of the taxes we pay for our “free” public school. Which only people who don’t pay any taxes, actually use.

Thank you, Democrats.

NoDonkey on April 9, 2008 at 1:58 PM

awake on April 9, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I hope you are correct, and , if so, I will apologize.

MNDavenotPC on April 9, 2008 at 2:00 PM

You are correct, but if it’s a Muslim school, it’s not a far stretch, or is it? How many “tolerant” sects of Islam are there other there?

Plenty. Do you know any Muslims? Like, personally?

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

People are reluctant because those critical of Islam are routinely beheaded and stoned or threatened with their lives. It’s as simple as that.

I think its more likely that people are afraid of being accused of bigotry. After all the Muslims can’t kill everyone so they need some other method of keeping people from expressing honest thoughts and liberalism is already there for them to exploit.

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM

Plenty. Do you know any Muslims? Like, personally?

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Old. Old. Old.

I do. I also know some liberals.

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 2:20 PM

This can be added to the evidence that Islam isn’t a religion, it’s a socio-political system. Too bad we could be sued for pointing this out because it would be an insult to Mohammed and Islam, (as if a dead pedophile or a religious doctrine could be insulted).
The world sho-gone crazy.

Christine on April 9, 2008 at 2:20 PM

The mosque on the same grounds as the school is a big ol red flag they should have seen at the Statehouse.

cjn on April 9, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Apparently you missed the class trip to a mosque to embrace the diversity of religious cultures:

http://www.nisnews.nl/public/090408_2.htm

awake on April 9, 2008 at 2:22 PM

“Do you know any Muslims? Like, personally?”

Sure, they are all over the place here in Falls Church, Virginia. Everywhere.

One guy I work with washes his feet every day in our restroom sink. I don’t have any problem with that. Nice guy.

Doesn’t make me feel one iota better about his religion. It’s a death cult.

NoDonkey on April 9, 2008 at 2:23 PM

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

You’re making two mistakes here. First you’re assuming that knowledge about Islam can be gained by observing and interacting with Muslim acquaintances from your personal experience which I believe someone last week called the fallacy of composition.

Second you’re ignoring the fact that Islamic doctrine encourages Muslims to act friendly towards infidels when it is in their interest.

In the Hadith, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda said, “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”

Muhammad said, “War is deception.”

In any case whether or not this school is ignoring all of the passages in the Koran that prescribe violence it is attempting to make Islam the established religion of the US and thus has no respect for law or the Constitution. That is the crux of the issue.

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Are you serious, you must be joking, right? If not then you are well on your way to being a good dihhmi. It’s good that you’re practicing your submission now so you will be prepared to kneel and bow before your fascist Islamic overlords, just be careful to keep your head!

You are way off base, Islam is much more than a culture, and Islam and being a “good” Muslim all require submission to Allah and the teachings of the Koran which is the Islamic “bible.” All of their daily lives revolve around the teachings of the Koran, their holy book, this includes their form of government especially under Sharia where the laws of the land are not separate from the teaching of the Koran but are in fact the BASIS of all their laws.

So for you to say “the school is just a cultural school” or that we are all “racist” because we see a double standard when it comes to the separation of church and state when applied to all religions except Islam is not only wrong it’s ignorant on your behalf.

Islam is both a political and religious entity…wake up please!

Liberty or Death on April 9, 2008 at 2:26 PM

“You don’t know what this school teaches.” One thing I do know is that Muslims require the girls to cover their hair so that the boys won’t try to rape them, (and this is one of the ‘nicer’ things they force females to do). This is part of the disgustingly backward, sexist tradition of Islam. If that’s bigotry on MY part, it just shows your upside-down viewpoint.
“The issue is state-funding of a religious-school, not the fact that the school is Muslim.” I do agree that state-funding of ANY religious school is not constitutional, but why is a Muslim school allowed funding? How is that ok, Grow Fins?

Christine on April 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM

How do property taxes for education work up there in the frozen north? Same as most everywhere else, they are shared?
Seems like a perfect tool to put together a lawsuit.

Oh…wait….what am I saying? The ACLU is working the other side of the aisle.

Limerick on April 9, 2008 at 2:38 PM

As I also live in a nearby neighboring state, I was amazed at the level of idiocy found upon frequent visits to the Twin Cities area.

In addition, slightly OT, a friend of my attends an ‘online’ college based in Minnesota. One of his current classes is ethics. One of the questions was: If you were pregnant, and knew you could not afford a child, should you: A) Get an Abortion? or B) Stop eating, knowing the fetal child would not survive. That’s it. No C.

Another question basically circled around: When do we determine a person does not contribute to society, and not support life saving procedures to be performed on them. And, if this person is poor, and thus, already a drain on society, should life saving procedures be considered at all.

We are doomed.

cntrlfrk on April 9, 2008 at 2:44 PM

“Christianity is considered a Western religion, so the Left opposes it.”

That really is not true at all. Christianity is a Levantine tradition just like Islam. Funny thing is I recall Muslims protesting in the streets against a movie depicting Christ because they felt Jesus was portrayed in a disrespectful way. Muslims also revere Jesus although some of the more sectarian followers

The ACLU are looking into this because the article seems to show some clear constitutional issues with the school. I don’t think they knew and held back until someone else noticed or it made it into the press. Let’s see what happens when this gets more scrutiny which it obviously should.

lexhamfox on April 9, 2008 at 2:55 PM

I have one message to the jmarcures of the world…. get your head out of your collective a**es . General Roderigo will be avenged!

MNDavenotPC on April 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM

My mom always said my eyes were brown because I was full of you know what, right up to my eyeballs. Now thanks to you I know why my hair is brown.

Who would have guessed?

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM

http://www.nisnews.nl/public/090408_2.htm

Were you being sarcastic with your first comment here on this thread at 1:14 PM?

awake on April 9, 2008 at 3:02 PM

jmarcure?

awake on April 9, 2008 at 3:02 PM

lexhamfox on April 9, 2008 at 2:55 PM

Muslims view Jesus differently than Christians. Muhammad had no choice but to include him in his little stories, but he stripped him of his divinity so he wouldn’t be more revered than himself. Christians are not grateful.

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 3:07 PM

lexhamfox on April 9, 2008 at 2:55 PM

Also, learn to recognize CAIR propaganda when you see it.

Connie on April 9, 2008 at 3:13 PM

What’s even worse is that the school is sponsored by an Al-Qaeda/HAMAS charity.

Debbie Schlussel on April 9, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Are you serious, you must be joking, right?
Liberty or Death on April 9, 2008 at 2:26 PM

Dead serious.
That is how a couple of co-workers explained Islam to me and how it was explained to my daughter in high school last year.

The way I see it is that stuff like this and what is going on in Europe will continue until we reach a critical mass of liberals that realize that Islam is a religion. My hope is that it will be realized well before serious damage to western society takes place. I would be willing to bet money that Osama didn’t have any idea that he would be so successful with his attack. All he needed to start the fall of western society was a handful of dedicated holy warriors and an abundance of guilt ridden first world liberals willing to embrace anything to ease the pain of living well. 10 years ago only a handful of people knew Islam even existed and now a few years after 9/11 we have liberals falling all over each other to be the first to embrace the quaint culture of Islam least they be labeled racist. Heck, we even have fashion designers creating burkinis and Islamic evening ware. As a co-worker but it, Muslims are a race of people that come from the nation of Islam and we should not deign them their culture. When I told her that Islam was a religion I was accused of being a bigot and nothing more than Bush lackey. To make matters worst there was a Muslim as part of the conversation who pointed out to her that it was bigots like me that he had to face every day. She apologized to him and said that I didn’t represent all Americans, only the close minded conservative ones.

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM

So you were being sarcastic, right?

awake on April 9, 2008 at 3:30 PM

So you were being sarcastic, right?

Yes

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 3:35 PM

grow fins

Instead of reverting to fins, you should think of expanding your lobes. You look a fool pontificating from a position of ignorance. Learn the basics of the ideology of Islam.

BL@KBIRD on April 9, 2008 at 3:44 PM

jmarcure, could I have your home address, please?

leftnomore on April 9, 2008 at 3:53 PM

So you were being sarcastic, right?

awake on April 9, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Yes

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 3:35 PM

Sarcastic? Hardly. I was only expressing what I have been told by a number of liberals, Muslims and my daughter’s history teacher. I am only trying to point out a very large problem in perception of Islam by liberals. The other problem may be that when I relate what I have been told I am asked if I’m being serious or sarcastic. The mere thought that people could be that ignorant just isn’t taken seriously but the sad truth is that there are far too many who think that way and that is why we get foot baths, approved religious foods and Muslim week in the schools. As long as Islam is not thought of as a religion we will continue to get laws that allow cabbies to turn away customers and people arrested for koran desecration.

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM

As a supporter of vouchers, I’m already aware that some parents will choose to send their children to parochial schools. That’s what I want. That’s how we’ll arrive at a better educational system. That is going to mean there will be more Madrassas.

Get used to it.

gabriel sutherland on April 9, 2008 at 4:03 PM

Sarcastic? Hardly. I was only expressing what I have been told by a number of liberals, Muslims and my daughter’s history teacher.

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM

Umm, it’s not sarcastic only if you believe and buy into what you are being told.

The sentiments you speak of obviously exist and are more prevalent than is given attention to, but your lack of clarification drew you unneccesary attention here.

awake on April 9, 2008 at 4:12 PM

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM

That’s not what I meant at all.

You started off by presenting this viewpoint on Islam without commentary as if it were your own. People were confused and wanted to know if you, jmarcure, held these liberal beliefs. Clearly you did not and I wanted to point this to awake. I wasn’t trying to trivialise your point.

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM

I would think Michigan shouldn’t be far behind. Aren’t there loads of Muslims there too?
The double standard is disturbing.

Geronimo on April 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Michigan already has one. It’s called “Central Academy.” It’s a Muslim charter school (i.e., a madrassa). And it’s in…Ann Arbor, of course, where there is absolutely no objection to it whatsoever. But when an Ann Arbor high school student tried to read Bible verses a few years ago at lunch during an “open mic” event for “Diversity Week,” well the ACLU was all over that one trying to shut it down. Yup, there’s a double standard, and it’s sickening.

Rational Thought on April 9, 2008 at 4:14 PM

That’s not what I meant at all.

You started off by presenting this viewpoint on Islam without commentary as if it were your own. People were confused and wanted to know if you, jmarcure, held these liberal beliefs. Clearly you did not and I wanted to point this to awake. I wasn’t trying to trivialise your point.

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM

I have reread what I wrote and you are correct. It was stated in such a way that it looked like a statement of my beliefs. My most humble apologies for the confusion.

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 4:22 PM

So like the other thread going, does this school teach the children that non-believers are dogs?

If so, perhaps the ASPCA should be informed when the little hellions decide to act on their religious beliefs.

NoDonkey on April 9, 2008 at 5:16 PM

jmarcure on April 9, 2008 at 4:22 PM

No problem, dude.

aengus on April 9, 2008 at 6:45 PM

Can you say double standard.

Johan Klaus on April 10, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Grow Fins on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Who was responsible for the 9-11?

Johan Klaus on April 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM

I feel as sorry, for many of these pretty little brown-skinned little Islamic girls, as I do, for the pretty little white-skinned, Warren Jeffs cult children and wives, taken into custody yesterday. I only hope each person has a guiding angel to get them all to safety. So sad. There’s a lot of evil going on behind closed doors of religions and cults.

luvstotango on April 10, 2008 at 2:45 AM

I have never understood the reluctance to call Islam out when they’re wrong.

TooTall on April 9, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Talk to Robert Spencer, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Geert Wilders, Wafa Sultan,…oh and Theo Van Gogh could probably have shed some light on the subject.

labrat on April 10, 2008 at 6:48 AM

Comment pages:


You must be logged in to post a comment.