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Tzetzes, your links to other debates with St. O-laugh and others were entertaining to say the least. At least we have it on their “doctrinal logic” that Jesus lied to the one thief, that was crucified with him, saying that that he would be in paradise that day.

Likewise the denominational controversies in the early Church between the followers of various Apostles. To whit, some thot eating unclean meats or otherwise not following Jewish tenets vs those who found no problem with it.

Those clowns would do well to heed Matthew 23:15 with regards to their style of “witnessing”. As for defining sin/salvation, Romans 3 would be required reading. Bottomline, everyone sins- hence our mortal bodies. Salvation does not make one, such as St. O-laugh, perfect & w/o sin, faith merely justifies — i.e. made blameless or innocent — one before God on judgment day. Because there is nothing else we can do to save ourselves, not even successfully avoiding any and all sin for the rest of their natural lives.

Hence, no matter one’s preferred denomination, even Catholics, Copts, Eastern Orthodox & Mormons could be saved, provided their faith is centered on redemption via Christ. By the same token, plenty of Hucksteristas, evangelicals, Southern Baptists, Plymouth Brethren, Methodists, as well as the aforementioned “fringe groups” could find themselves on the other side of the great gulf looking in because their faith was misplaced.

If nothing else, Roms 3 should give the sanctimonious clowns reason to refrain from throwing stones at those who don’t believe exactly as they do. Faith/Salvation is a intimate interaction between God and the individual and not subject to the opinions of others. After all, even Jesus marveled at the faith of the (evil according to Obambi’s pastor) Roman Centurion.

Here’s couple parting shots at the clowns:
1) The Bible commands us to obey the laws and pray for our leaders because God has ordained their rule, whether we like them or not. The exception being commandments to give upor compromising the faith. By the same token, God has reserved judgment for rulers who do evil. Thus, it’s not the end of the world for me if Obambi or the Hildebeast wins the WH. There’s no way I would vote for the Huckster, McVain (depending on VP) or the Dems, but if one of them wins, so be it.

2) Polygamy is not a sin against God. For us Americans, it would be a sin in that it is against the “legitimate” law of the land, but not in countries where it is legal. The only stipulation against polygamy, as well as drunkeness, etc is the criteria for selecting leaders. The rationale is that it’s hard for one to focus on shepherding a flock if he is beset with familial or personal burdens. I assure Red Pill and others that there are polygamists in heaven.

3) Fornication is not the same as pre-martial sex, nor is pre-marital sex necessarily a sin. Then there’s concubines & surrogate spouses. It boils down to intent & commitment, or the lack thereof. Hence common-law marriages & shot-gun weddings etc. OTOH, adultery is extramarital and is a sin. To understand the nuances, Leviticus would be a good starting point for the Biblical perspective as opposed to societal norms & protocols.

But then again, I think the clowns can’t handle these simple truths, lest their widdle heads explode. Ta-ta.

You absolutely correct on every point. Thanks for edifying my shock-jock treatment of St.O. In any case, I think I’m done with those idiots for this thread, time to move on to other topics.

Amen. The cult of personality that is the Huckster defines these fools. His supporters are blindly following a fallen blind man. As one SB minister said elsewhere, the fact that a minister actively pursued a career in politics only goes to show that the ministry was never his true calling, rather like Obama, used the church as a springboard to politics. Yet the weak-minded swallow his false teachings hook, line & sinker.

Simply put, Hucky is a socialist and figures a “true christian leader” could succeed where Marx, secular & libertine leaders failed. Hucky wasn’t paying attention when Jesus said that the poor will always be with us – either from folly or by destiny. Furthermore, the Apostles were explicit about individual responsibility. Wealth redistribution was never part of plan, let alone to illegals who deserve nothing from us.

We have these self proclaimed Arbiters of who is a Christian™

The thing is many, many so called Christians are Christians in name only i.e. not real Christians at all.

SaintOlaf on April 10, 2008 at 12:05 AM

Just so we know what I’m defining below, lets roll this beautiful bean footage:

Claim A:

The definition of Christian is in the Bible. End of story. Period.
apacalyps on April 6, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Claim B:

These are the doctrines that make the distinction between Christianity and the world of cults. The essential doctrines are,

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See Trinity)

Because these central doctrines define the character of Christianity, one cannot be saved and deny these. Oh, and you have a seventh doctrine that strikes me as a functional necessity, that is the ultimate authority of Scripture without which none of the other truths can be affirmed or asserted with confidence. As long as a person believes in these essential doctrines, it’s pretty safe to say they are Christian.
apacalyps on April 9, 2008 at 7:59 PM

The trend is simple, They assert Claim A, and when other people (those whom they deem non-Christian) can classify themselves under their posit definition of Claim A, the Arbiters move the goalpost to Claim B. Now, B has a serious problem – it contradicts A because the basis for A is that it required no other proof or reference, hence sola scriptura. Unbeknown or oblivious to the Arbiters, Claim B incorporates BOTH Scripture and interpretations of ecumenical councils (See specific points 1,5,6 above.)
What’s even more hilarious is that it’s self-contradicting within the same post, as the “seventh doctrine” asserts Claim A once again.

The point I’m illustrating is that until these Arbiters have the intellectual honesty to come clean (like answering simple questions, etc), stick to one Claim (A or B – I don’t really care, just pick one, own and work it) and decode the doctrinal mess that is readily apparent by the fruits of their efforts here, we’re going to get 400+ posts of “hot mess” every time.

Cold Steel on April 11, 2008 at 7:21 AM

Right on – not to mention Cake, OLAP, and Butthead. It’s been a whopper. Maybe Tzetzes will help me out here as I actually have cobbled something together as a thought/trend I’m seeing here… I’ll post it here soon, gotta run.

So were you praying on this or did he just come out and start talking to you in the shower or something?

Geronimo on April 10, 2008 at 3:05 PM

I’ve got a lot going on in my personal life, including doing my tax returns (hopefully for the next-to-last time), so my posting will be less frequent for a bit, but I did want to respond to the question above.

If you really are seeking an answer to your question, listen to this song and read the lyrics.

Thanks for coming out again Tzetzes. I thought St. O strictly relied on KJV, now he’s running around talking on fallen angels? Someone really needs to crack him open to see what else is in there. AP, please post more So-con articles so that these patron saints of this blog can display their wares in full glory. Huckabee, pagans, naked boobies, fallen angels, eternal damnation, giant skeletons, all in the same post. AWESOME.

I especially liked when the funny music turned on and he started running around in fast motion…

Tzetzes on April 11, 2008 at 2:18 AM

That was always my favorite part too. Well, that and the occasional glimpse of a naked booby.

I know, SaintOlaf, you don’t have to tell me: I’m going to spend an eternity soaking in the lake of fire.

P.S. But at least I’ll be able to look at naked boobies there, right?

Sekhmet,

The egyptians and all other pagan religions worshipped the fallen angels spoken of in Genesis 6, that fathered the race of giants called the Nephilim.

Remember they are fallen angels similar to satan(the devil)
Yes they had their side of their story but remember satan is the father of all lies!

Every culture from the greeks to egyptians to indians to mayans etc. etc. all worshipped the fallen angels and their half human offspring the nephilim.

Heard of the greek demi-gods? They were half human half fallen angel.

Apollo is mentioned in the Bible. He was a fallen angel like the rest of the pagan “gods”.

SaintOlaf on April 10, 2008 at 12:35 AM

You may think this old-earther is just taking the mick, but he really does seem to think this way.

Have you ever heard of the Nephilim?

Do some research almost all cultures religions were directly related to them.

The Bible is very clear about this also.

The fallen angels came to earth bred with human females and created a race of giants called Nephilim.

The nephilim populated the earth and dominated it.

This was why the Global Flood was necessary..to wipe out the nephilim.

After the flood a much smaller % of fallen angels tried to repopulate the Holy land and were basically wiped out by Joshua,David etc.

Every culture on earth has the story of the global flood (over 600 stories on all continents)

Giant skeletons have been found on every continent on earth.

All pagan religions worship the fallen angels. Do some research.

SaintOlaf on April 10, 2008 at 12:54 AM

More here as well, if you can stand it. Love Them Grassroots!

AH_C on April 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM

Mike Huckabee is a “TRUE CHRISTIAN”(TM) just like them and not a cultists like, well, the rest of us who aren’t “TRUE CHRISTIANS”(TM).

SuperCool on April 10, 2008 at 3:13 AM

But then you [SaintOlaf] aren’t the final arbiter who determines who is sufficiently Christian…

FloatingRock on April 10, 2008 at 12:26 AM

Well, actually he and apacalyps [sic] do consider themselves such arbiters, as you can see, if you have seven or eight hours to spare, in this long, long discussion here. Some of us tried to get them to elaborate on the principles whereon men are or are not to be called Christian, but the judgement turned out to be very arbitrary indeed.

As for applicability to the topic at hand, well, these heavy thinkers are a couple of Huckabee’s supporters. You can decide for yourself whether they’re a representative sample.

Couldn’t the huckster just get a talk show or something and get his jollies competing with the Benny Hinn types?

aikidoka on April 9, 2008 at 9:09 PM

Oh yeah, that guy was hilarious. I used to watch him as a kid; I especially liked when the funny music turned on and he started running around in fast motion…

Let me ask you…have you ever seen me sin?

No.

SaintOlaf on April 9, 2008 at 11:49 PM

Is that why you throw stones?

Was not Jesus descended from a whore (Judah & bastard son by another son’s ex-wife)?
….
AH_C on April 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM

Yes and no. There was in fact a harlot in the line of Jesus, but it was not Tamar. It was Rahab, of Jericho. The reference is Matthew 1:5. Note that Salmon begat Boaz of Rachab, and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth, and Obed begat Jesse, and Jesse begat David the king. Which would make Rahab the great-great-grandmother of David the king.

Just to be clear, the Bible does not specifically say that Rahab was the same woman as in the story of Joshua and Jericho, but in these genealogies, the woman’s name is only mentioned if there is something very unusual about her. The only women mentioned in Matthew 1 are Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, and Bathsheba.

Of these, Tamar once dressed up as a harlot to get her father-in-law to give her a child, which under the Old Testament law should have been done by one of her dead husband’s brothers. Rahab was a harlot who was rewarded for helping the spies of Israel escape. Ruth was a Gentile woman who was married to a son of Naomi, whose husband died. So she wound up remarrying to Boaz. Bathsheba was the wife of a Hittite, so presumably was a Hittite herself. If Tamar and Bathsheba were Gentiles, which seems likely, then the only women mentioned in the genealogies of Christ were Gentiles by birth.

But Tamar herself was no whore. She was the properly married wife of Judah’s oldest son. When her husband died childless, the Old Testament law was that her dead husband’s brother would produce children by her, but the children would be counted as the children of the dead brother.

Unfortunately, while Judah’s next oldest son apparently saw no problem with having sex with his dead brother’s widow, he refused to have children by her, which was really the only reason he was permitted to have sex with her to begin with. When he died, Judah promised Tamar his remaining son would do the task of giving her heirs. When Judah broke that promise, then and only then did Tamar dress up like a prostitute specifically to get a child by Judah. Manipulative and conniving, yes, but Judah had to admit that she was more in the right than he was, because he had promised the one thing she wanted — children — and then refused to take the steps that would give them.

So really, it’s not at all fair to call Tamar a whore. However, it would be completely fair to say that Judah visited a whore, because that’s what he thought Tamar was when he had sex with her.

And at this point, I have to ask, why the double standard? If it was wrong for Tamar to pretend to be a whore, it was much worse for Judah to actually visit what he thought was a whore.

Apparently, when the Pharisees brought the adulterous woman to Jesus to be stoned, saying they had caught her “in the very act” of adultery, it was not at all unusual that they caught a woman in the act of adultery without somehow catching the man.

AH_C beleive what you want but make no mistake it…if you think you are not heading for an eternity in the lake of fire….you are sadly mistaken!

SaintOlaf on April 10, 2008 at 11:00 PM

So says SaintOlaf, who probably thinks he’s a real live saint. Then there’s Red Pill, who discusses politics with God. It’s interesting that while delusions of persecution seem to be a common psychosis with Huckabee supporters, they simultaneously profess such fantastic political might that a 3rd party run by Huckabee would result in a landslide victory for their holy cause. This in spite of the fact that most people who consider themselves Christians aren’t Christians at all in their eyes and are in fact sinners that will spend an eternity in the lake of fire.

“Was not Jesus descended from a whore”

You say Jesus was the son of a whore and call yourself a Christian….you’re not fooling anyone buddy.

“Hucklebee was never persecuted…Mocked for his piousness? Yes!”

Look up the definition of persecution.

Do you have sex with your girlfriend outside of wedlock?

That’s an artifact of the Puritans. Marriage is just a social ceremony.
AH_C on April 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM

Actually no it’s not. It’s God’s Law. Having sex outside of marriage is breaking God’s Law. It is the definition of fornication.

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

Let me guess you think God’s Law does not apply to you specifically? Or maybe you think the Scripture is corrupted and that part is wrong. Well there are many other scripture’s that say the same thing and either way it is idolatry.

Newsflash, all Christians sin until their dying breath.

Actually you’re completely WRONG about that.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”.

AH_C beleive what you want but make no mistake it…if you think you are not heading for an eternity in the lake of fire….you are sadly mistaken!

Where is this video you speak of, with Mike Huckabee lying?

I do doubt that you will be able to produce one.

Don’t get me wrong…I may be wrong about Huck, but I doubt it.

If a tree fell in a forest… The evidence is on the record, as noted by others, and waiting for your review.

I have never seen him sin

Then he sins in secret, or rather unbeknownst to you. Newsflash, all Christians sin until their dying breath.

[SNIP]

For all the vipers who dishonor me and try to discredit me, I will not bother to refute each one of your claims but I will point out that that 90% of the hate filled venomous lies against me are from mormons while the rest are mostly atheists(similar to the persecution Mike Huckabee faced).

Umm. Really? I’ve yet to see a hate-filled venomous lie against him amongst conservative commenters, OTOH, 90% of your posts can cahritably be labeled as untruths and misstatements.

Yes some who persecuted him were so called Christians.

Hucklebee was never persecuted. To claim otherwise is to bear falsehood. Mocked for his piousness? Yes! Threatened with death or harm for his faith? Absolutely not!

But the fact is there are many,many false Christians,who are not saved and continue to live in sin!

So you’re saying Christians who sin are false? According to the Apostles, Christians sin because of their human nature. For all your sanctimony, you’re nothing but filthy rags.

[SNIP]

Do you look at internet porn?

I’ve always wondered why adamant crusaders against a given vice are always brought down from their high horse by the same vice. What is it about Internet porn that attracts you?

Do you lust after women?(Jesus says “whoever looketh at a women to lust after her hath already committed adultery with her in his heart”)

Just because you don’t lust after women doesn’t let you off the hook. By logical extension, whoever lusts after a man has already committed sodomy.

Do you tell “little white lies”?

No such thing. A lie is a lie and you’ve regaled us with some whoppers

Do you blasheme God’s Holy name and use it to express disgust?

Ask Red Pill. Offending the Holy Ghost is unforgiveable compared to taking God’s name in vain which is forgiveable.

Do you not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to earth to die for our sins?

Exactly right. Our salvation isn’t predicated on pulling for Hucksteras you falsely teach

Do you ever hate your brother unjustly(God equates unjust hatred with murder Matthew 5:21-22)

So your hatred of Mormons et al is justly?

Do you have sex with your girlfriend outside of wedlock?

That’s an artifact of the Puritans. Marriage is just a social ceremony. What matters to God is the implicit contract & obligations between the couple, hence common-law regs in some areas. Did Issac marry Rebecca before taking her into his tent? Was not Jesus descended from a whore (Judah & bastard son by another son’s ex-wife)? Did Ruth sin in bedding Boaz? In fact, on a side note, just because our society frowns on polygamy does not mean that a polygamist can’t be a Christian. Disqualified from leadership in church he is, but not from getting thru the Pearly Gates.

Do you practice homosexual sex?

What’s with your obsession over various forms of sex? If you confess your sins, He will forgive you.

Do you not believe the whole Word of God, as written in the Bible? If so that is idolatry.

Idolatry is when you invent a false god that conforms to your sin and allows it. Worshipping any false god that is not the God of the Bible is idolatry also.

In that case, you definitely need to spend more time studying it and on your knees begging for compassion & understanding. Because nearly everything you’ve spouted has been warped. More so if Huckster is your semi-god.

If you consider yourself Christian and continue breaking God’s Law….then make no mistake about it YOU ARE NOT SAVED! Jesus says you will know them by their fruits…no good tree produces evil fruit.

Again, you thot process is warped and the quote out of context. But then again, we’ve tasted the fruition of your postings – yuck!

Even I have suffered false conversion in the past….for 8 years I thought I was a Christian but continued in sin.

When I was truly born again I was given a new heart and new desires. Sin became “exceedingly sinful” in my eyes.

Reminds me of that pious Pharisee, “God, I thank you that I’m not a sinner like the rest” The problem with your eyes is that they’re way out of focus. Beams tend to do that when firmly lodged in there.

Yes we are truly saved by Faith in Jesus and by that faith alone….but if that faith does not produce righteousness then it is dead faith and false conversion.

The Bible says

‘None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.’

No man thirsts for righteousness.

Righteousness is a supernatural thing..it only comes through Jesus Christ.

When you are born again, God gives you a NEW HEART that thirsts for righteousness and wants to obey God’s commandments.

This is the way to prove Jesus’s existence..repent turn from sin and trust in the blood of Jesus.
He promises to manifest himself to anyone who does this….you will know for certain.

It is idolatry to think that God is only a God of forgiveness and will forgive you for no reason. If He did He wouldn’t be a God of Justice, He would be corrupt.

When you are born again you will see that God is also a God of Holiness and Justice and Truth and you’ll tremble at the feet of God!

There’s a passage in the Bible that compares neophyte Christians to mature Christians. The mature Christian can digest doctrinal meat, while the young have to be milk-fed. Whose teat are you attached to? Mikey?

I only say this to you because I love you enough to warn you. I know I will become an object of ridicule here by many. But if one of you has ears to hear, it will be worth it.

Believe me, I hesitated to fisk you, but your inane ramblings and idolatry of the Huckster demanded that I as a Christian set the record straight. It is abundantly clear that you are not qualified to discuss theology. IOW, shut the 4311 up and stick to the topic and leave theology out of it.

Blessings to you and yours as well.
I’m well aware of my imperfections and shortcomings and how they impact my standing. Most here on this site have the intellect and motivation to comprehend and build their relationship with God. I, and I’m projecting that many others, don’t need constant brow beating from misguided zealots. Chanting out epithets and outlining each and every sin is so OT. What you are inadvertently doing is dumbing down the product. Look for other ways to get your point across without playing the religious card each and every time.

Idolatry? It was only a small part of the message. Hitting too close to home?

The Holy Spirit is convicting your spirit in a big way.

I will continue to pray for you.

Remember:

“The effectual ferverent prayer of a righteous man availeth much”!

God bless!

St. Oaf, Red Pill, apacalypto: put down your tinfoil hats and breathe. I believe in mysterious ways like the next guy, but you trolls are encroaching on the “kool aid zone.” I appreciate your faith and your desire to do well. With that said, each individual on this site is responsible for their own relationship with Christ. They don’t need you to mediate. O, you love to talk you some idolatry…. look inward brother, you’re setting yourself up as our chief judge, armed and ready to slam the door on anyone who doesn’t believe your special pseudo-religious brew.
Pill: I take God at His word when he states he detests lying. Huck plays very loose with the English language, please don’t project a burning bush experience on this charlatan.
Apacalypto: I’m happy to say I quit reading your posts. One says it all.

I do love how you knuckleheads work in shifts. Keep hope alive.

The Holy Spirit didn’t tell me any details of how Huckabee will become the next POTUS, only that it will happen. (I think God’s not telling me because I would share the details here, and He has His own plan for revealing things at the right time.) Every time I ask for more details, He tells me this. Blah, blah, blah

The Holy Spirit did NOT tell you such nonsense. Less credible is the notion that God didn’t give you details lest you blab the details to the world. Seriously, do you mean to tell us that if God asked you to keep a secret that you couldn’t keep your vow?

Strikes me as downright comical imagining a heavenly conversation where God tells the surrounding Saints, “I can tell Red Pill that Huck will win, but I can’t trust him with the details”.

Come to think of it, I don’t recall any prophet from the Good Book that spread His Word under an alias, let alone a reference to the matrix. All hail Mr. Smith.

But like all those sandwich-board wearing fools proclaiming the world will end on X date. I’ll be looking for you the morning after the GE trying to explain why you misunderstood the message.

What a putz!