What’dya say, Charlie, you buttfuc**ng nitwit? Let the Iraq soldiers decide this one?

The Congress foolishly agreed to abdicate their authority to declare the War in Iraq and gave President Bush the opportunity to exercise the advice of the sorry neocons that populated his “adults in Washington” cadre of advisors!

J_Gocht on April 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM

In his autobiography, American Soldier, Franks describes a conversation with his subordinates who were upset with Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith; Franks tells them, ‘Here’s the deal, guys. I know OSD – Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith – are demanding a lot. But they are not the enemy. Don’t tart thinking good guys-bad guys. We’re all on the same side.’ They could see I was serious. ‘I’ll worry about OSD, all of them – including Doug Feith, who’s getting a reputation around here as the dumbest @ucking guy on the planet,’ I continued. ‘Your job is to make me feel
warm and fuzzy. Look, we’re all professionals. Let’s earn our pay.’

Franks shows a military man’s ability to get to the heart of the matter. But Feith isn’t dumb. His defenders, in fact, frequently stand up for him by citing his brilliance. But Franks’ lament is a blunter, less eloquent version of what Fallows wrote in the Atlantic of the office of the secretary of Defense, particularly Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith:
‘What David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in The Best and the Brightest is true of those at OSD as well: they were brilliant, and they were fools.’”

NOW! Right NOW!

Before another American life or limb is sacrificed on this horrible alter of despicable political shame and sacrifice!

Yes, let’s bring our troops home RIGHT NOW because J_Gocht says so. Who cares about the possible consequences? The important thing that J_Gocht thinks the sacrifice has been shameful.

Wow, all I can think of is you are so far off that you think everything someone in a war right now (which isn’t vietnam) is wrong.

scarey!

I’ll do my best to be more apprapro in the future!

…and Crocker stammers…!

…and Crocker stammers again and again…!

Holy Jesus, Mary and Joseph are these people totally incompetent, incapable of leadership and honest communications?

What ever happened to the “exit strategy” they used to hammer President Clinton about in Bosnia?

What’s your exit strategy General Petraeus…obviously Crocker doesn’t have a damn clue!

The good General would’t or couldn’t commit!

“Military Secrets”…you know!
It’s actually called “CYA”!

Jesus, he’s had five years to implement his military secrets! OK just four and a half!

I was definately not impressed by…”same olde, same olde!”

Fire both their sorry sagging buttocks!

NOW! Right NOW!

Before another American life or limb is sacrificed on this horrible alter of despicable political shame and sacrifice!

But that’s just me!

Course now, I feel like a total dork for having voted against one of the greatest presidents in our nation’s history but my point is…I’m really not all that surprised to see young servicemen and women voting Democratic.

Like me, they’re probably just rebelling against authority. With a little age and wisdom, they’ll eventually come around.

I certainly did.

“Stop loss never affected you because there was a draft, it wasn’t needed.
Length of service has nothing to do with it. Type of service has nothing to do with it.
Critical shortages in certain AFSC’s (MOS for Army/MC) can precipitate stop loss now. There is no draft. catmman on April 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM

I’d forgotten about the draft…Thanks for the heads-up.

I was enlisted and I actually re-uped in August of 1963 in Vietnam!

Talk about a dumbe arse?
Thanks again, catmman!

(the longest you can be extended under stop loss is 12 months I believe),
catmman on April 8, 2008 at 4:47 PM

24 months I believe.

No worries about off topic. I explained the bonuses earlier.

Stop loss never affected you because there was a draft, it wasn’t needed.

Length of service has nothing to do with it. Type of service has nothing to do with it.

Critical shortages in certain AFSC’s (MOS for Army/MC) can precipitate stop loss now. There is no draft.

So we could start this debate: What do we do, keep a few people on active duty for a few months (the longest you can be extended under stop loss is 12 months I believe), or re-institute the draft to cover any possible shortfalls?

And let’s not try to deflect the issue by bringing this back into retention or re-enlistment. The services are getting the troops in. But there is a training lag (up to several years) depending on specialty. Just as with equipment, sometimes there are shortages. But they are always shortlived.

Stop loss is used sparingly and as a last resort and anyone affected by it is released as soon as is feasable, usually only a period of months on average, but it could be as little as a few weeks, no more than a year as I stated above in extreme cases.

Bonuses are offered, they vary depending on service and specialty. I’ve never been authorized a bonus for my particualr field in 21 years of service. Others do get bookoo money for enlistment, re-enlistment, etc.

Per Diem used to be big. I remember my first TDY (1989) to Germany for a training exercise. I made a lot of money for a 35 day TDY. Nowadays, Per diem (especially in the AOR) is non-existant – mess and lodging are provided. If you get per diem, the rates are usually low. It can add up over time (if your gone long enough) though.

Most personnel make their money through savings of their base pay which is supplemented by hazardous duty/fire pay, family seperation allowance, stuff like that. You can bank a lot of money since you have very few outlets to spend it on while your deployed…

I think I’m officially off-topic now…

“Can you please do us a favor. Get some of your facts straight. Thanks
upinak on April 8, 2008 at 3:58 PM”

catmman, set me straight!

“J:
The Congress authorized this war and still would be if they thought it would win them the election.
Terrye on April 8, 2008 at 4:24 PM”

The Congress foolishly agreed to abdicate their authority to declare the War in Iraq and gave President Bush the opportunity to exercise the advice of the sorry neocons that populated his “adults in Washington” cadre of advisors!

I know your just saying what the good gerneral said, J Gotch. Just adding my two cents. catmman on April 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM

Thanks for your two cents.

I’ve been out of the loop for more than forty years. I know when I left; the Army was offering for that time [1966--$ 4500 if memory serves?] fabulous bonus’s to reenlist if you had a critical PMOS and cross training like mine.

I do recall that the per diem on my first two missions was fabulous! We made more money in four days than we got for entire month of base pay, parachute pay and combat pay!

They couldn’t have paid me enough… to go back for a fifth time! Sooner or later you’re bound to buy the farm under those circumstances and I felt like I’d done my share.

I served sis years active and had prior service of nine years with the Wisconsin, Army National Guard.

“Stop Loss” never became and issue with me; perhaps because of the length of my NG and active duty service?

The Congress authorized this war and still would be if they thought it would win them the election.

I know about SNCO’s – I are one. I’m fortunate that I was allowed to re-enlist just recently. And I said allowed to re-enlist, it isn’t a guarentee.
catmman on April 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM

It is nice to know that good NCO’s are still around. Look forward to working with you in the future.

J_Gocht on April 8, 2008 at 2:44 PM

Can you please do us a favor. Get some of your facts straight. Thanks

Entelechy on April 8, 2008 at 1:36 PM

Capital “S”. Ah yes, splendid idea Entelechy.

Now if only I could find a microscopic “d” on my keyboard.

cheers.

I met one Liberal when I was in the Marines. He was a Reservist.
pseudonominus on April 8, 2008 at 11:32 AM

Was that liberal Marine actually in Iraq? If so, you’ve met one more than I ever have.

I have about as much interest in listening to the video clip as I have in listening to archived Tass and Pravda broadcasts.

What I want to know is: How was this “random sampling” orchestrated? That must have taken a huge amount of work and I’d pay money to see what ABC had to do to put this circus together.

The services need to meet these levels, and the O Corps is taking the brunt of this drawdown phase.

As to SNCO’s re-enlisting. The Army’s rank structure is a bit different (as far as how fast promotions take place) but SNCo’s don’t re-enlist in as high numbers for a few reasons: 1) There aren’t that many SNCO’s as a percentage of teh total force. 2) SNCO’s by and large don’t have to re-enlist since they are already committed through their retirement.

Additionally, SNCO’s don’t stay too long after they hit 20 years since they have met their service committments, they hit their retirement time, they are worn out, little opportunity for further advancement to name a few.

I know about SNCO’s – I are one. I’m fortunate that I was allowed to re-enlist just recently. And I said allowed to re-enlist, it isn’t a guarentee.

I know your just saying what the good gerneral said, J Gotch. Just adding my two cents.

And stop with misrepresenting the stop loss. I smacked down your reasoning. You are still at it. You don’t do much for your credibility by continuing with your bias.

“And not sure what you mean by “our war”? Afgahnistan was a U.N. started war, in which the US helps. Iraq was started due to sanctions in which the U.N. agreed… then on to other things. Could you clarify?
upinak on April 8, 2008 at 2:25 PM”

It’s our War because our brave men and women are fighting and dieing there.

The UN could have sanctioned till the cows come home. President Bush used the sanctions as part of his political cover to us as citizens; that he was justified in his decision to invade and occupy Iraq.

If the UN actually started the war in Afghanistan; wow you gotta admire their cajones!

Actually I was under the impression they agreed to support and assist US there.
In any case that’s were we should be fightin’ … al-Qaeda is their in spades!