Flag vigilante, part two: Vet sentenced for tearing down Mexican flag
posted at 2:13 pm on April 6, 2008 by Allahpundit
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It wasn’t his flag, the only reason it was left flying without the American flag beside it seems to be due to a simple misunderstanding, and the laws regarding flag etiquette that he chose to enforce himself instead of alerting the cops are unenforceable anyway. But these dopey stories are usually good for 200 comments, so go crazy.
The sentence — six months, suspended pending 48 hours of community service, anger management classes, and replacement of the flag — does seem ridiculously excessive. Click the image to watch.
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I wouldn’t have charged him.
HYTEAndy on April 6, 2008 at 2:15 PM
If we didn’t have enough to worry about with our great islamic overlords, now we have to deal with mexican overlords too. How is it that its perfectly acceptable to tear down an American flag but a crime to do such to either a Hezbollah (see San Francisco State University) or a Mexican flag?
Defector01 on April 6, 2008 at 2:21 PM
I give up, what was his sentence? Oh, is there any way that any time in the future, someone from a group called “The Race” accuses someone else of racism, they just instantly get slapped in the back of the head?
trubble on April 6, 2008 at 2:23 PM
It’s not perfectly acceptable to tear down someone else’s American flag. It’s a property crime. Just like this is.
Allahpundit on April 6, 2008 at 2:23 PM
So wait, what was the sentence?
Vizzini on April 6, 2008 at 2:24 PM
He shouldn’t have done it. he should have bitched and moaned to everyone he could get the ear of until they brought it down.
Flags are not just cloth, they are powerful symbols. That said he acted too rashly. Mexico is our ally, its not like this was an Iranian flag or something.
Dr. Manhattan on April 6, 2008 at 2:27 PM
It’s not perfectly acceptable to tear down someone else’s American flag. It’s a property crime. Just like this is.
Allahpundit on April 6, 2008 at 2:23 PM
++++++++++++++
You’re a leftist shill, AP
fabrexe on April 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM
Property damage and theft. He said he was willing to take the penalty.
So essentially just probation, right? Not actual jail time?
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:29 PM
One of my favorite “AP-isms” ever, from the original post: So open that yapper. Because this meat’s so red, it’s still twitching. Click the image to watch.
Legally, yes. Which I guess is the real bottom-line here. But…in principle, it was the right thing to do.
JetBoy on April 6, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Anyone ever heard of extenuating circumstances? I think that’s what we’re seeing here. This man is a patriot.
HYTEAndy on April 6, 2008 at 2:32 PM
I added it to the post. Six months suspended sentence. I would have fined the guy $100.
Allahpundit on April 6, 2008 at 2:33 PM
It’s a property crime and I don’t have a big problem with the sentence, except for the anger management classes. If that’s the standard for civil disobedience and minor property crimes, then I expect to see every nutty antiwar protester that commits similar crimes attending mass anger management classes.
rplat on April 6, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Why was it right to rip up the flag?
exception on April 6, 2008 at 2:36 PM
He should have been REWARDED $10,000.
Gregor on April 6, 2008 at 2:36 PM
He is a patriot. Extenuating circumstances? King George III wasn’t above the law, neither is J. Broussard:)
Seems about right.
Good point re: classes.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:39 PM
er, Mr. Lynch. Pardon my error there.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Should have? If you believe it, start a fund and let the man get his ‘reward’.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Honestly, the store owner was lucky to only have had his improperly placed Mexican flag ripped down. Not so far back in our history, a guy like Charlton Heston would have taken this loser to the shed for a good ol’ fashioned butt woop-n, American style.
Pretty soon, big brother will have made it a punishable crime just to udder words of disgust for such an “out of line” act by an immigrant. Mexicans will some day be bragging about how their flag was the first to fly above the American flag on American soil; long before the flag of Islam.
Keemo on April 6, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with anger management classes if they were, you know, about anger management — when anger is appropriate, how to sustain it when needed, how to channel it, etc. Instead, they’re typically Stalin-esque political re-education camps. And it’s hard not to note that such re-education is heavily favored by the left, where the right has a more “punish and be done” mindset.
cthulhu on April 6, 2008 at 2:43 PM
He didn’t rip it up…he cut it down. Again, from a leag perspective, he was wrong.
I just find it so hard to believe that flag laws are unenforceable. And according to the ACLU, would violate first ammendment rights. Some of the most iconic American images are of our flag. Wars are fought over where that flag waves. The flag denotes the nation…
JetBoy on April 6, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Spend tens of thousands on a trial to impose $100 fine? Tens of thousand to put a guy on probation for 6 months?
No other profession in the world would let you make economic decisions like that for long.
TheBigOldDog on April 6, 2008 at 2:45 PM
*leag = legal. oops!
JetBoy on April 6, 2008 at 2:45 PM
I’d be proud to buy that man a beer, or dinner.
localmalcontent on April 6, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Nor is La Raza, when flying the Mex flag alone. Nor was the Mexican shop owner, in Mr Broussards case, who flew the Mex flag above the American flag.
Some blame must be shifted to the officials who took no action when alerted by Mr Lynch.
I consider him a Patriot. I will do the same if confronted w/ the same issue.
JoeAvg on April 6, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I’d pay for it out of the money collected in fines from those who think it’s cool to burn American flags. That ought to off-set it.
Gregor on April 6, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Vigilantism – 0
Flag etiquette – 0
Allahpundit – 1
HA commenters – 0101010101010101010101…
Anger management – 1
Patriotism – 1
Cojones – 1
Fine – 0
$100 – 1
Fund to pay for $100 – 1 (I’d consider paying for the fee)
Entelechy on April 6, 2008 at 2:47 PM
It’s all very depressing where we are going as a country. I can’t even fly our US flag over one of our FOBs in Iraq, but the Mexican flag is allowed to be flown over our sovereign soil as people burn the US flag worldwide and in our own country. We deserve what we get.
gator70 on April 6, 2008 at 2:49 PM
No argument from me. Selected enforcement is anathema to justice. And I would have no objection to stronger flag law enforcement or stronger flag laws.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Wasn’t the guy flying the flag an illegal business owner whose clientele were illegals? What happened to the business owner? Probably reward damages and given a green card.
Flag man was guilty but so are illegals
thatcher on April 6, 2008 at 2:50 PM
I would have fined ROTC.
Our colors don’t get struck while Mexico’s flag still flies over a university which thrives on Federal funding.
Retreat all the flags and leave a note for the owners.
Treat the Mexican flag properly while in custody.
Return promptly to its owners.
Stephen M on April 6, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Wait a minute…..Mexico is our ally? Just when have they done anything to show themselves to be allies. Rediculous. Mexico is a 3rd world country unable to keep the place from becoming another narco-state.
thatcher on April 6, 2008 at 2:53 PM
RTFA
exception on April 6, 2008 at 2:53 PM
And we are still magnanimous enough to let this happen, without much consequence. Don’t take me wrong. I don’t like it, but the world does this to the shark, knowing that she’s all-powerful, but constrained. The world still knows not to push the lady to its limits.
Entelechy on April 6, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Alas, “to her limits”…
Entelechy on April 6, 2008 at 2:55 PM
I appreciate the humor, of course, but since such $ would flow from fines, is that not the government rewarding illegal behavior? The reward for appropriate civil disobedience must come from the public, I would think.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Spirit, I alreay covered the $100 fine :)
Entelechy on April 6, 2008 at 2:56 PM
“Cheap traffic mania” indeed.
RMR on April 6, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Because you are so magnanimous:) Only 99,900 to go!
Excellent point. I’m not clear why a Mexican flag was flying there in the first place, but I hope similar situations take your advice in the future.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 2:59 PM
In addition my 2:53 PM remarks I’d have the Vet’s community service assigned as follows – he gets to PT the ROTC students.
Stephen M on April 6, 2008 at 3:01 PM
No, this is a different case.
FloatingRock on April 6, 2008 at 3:02 PM
How about calling it what it is, Civil Disobedience. You still have to pay a price, as what you did is illegal even though it is the moral thing to do. Why does only the left get to use that term?
dentalque on April 6, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Yeah, six months is a bit out there. Maybe that’s the convince him to do the service hours. And I agree with you: property damage is property damage. Should have gotten something, but six months is a bit excessive.
Vizzini on April 6, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Hmmm… community service… Guarding a Recruitment center?
And some of you would have been for prosecuting the Sons of Liberty for the Boston Tea Party?
Romeo13 on April 6, 2008 at 3:12 PM
That vet should be given a medal, not probation! Time for a another viewing of my world famous video of another vet cutting down a Mexican flag: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA
Afterimage on April 6, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Franklin, I believe it was, offered to pay for all the damages.
Spirit of 1776 on April 6, 2008 at 3:15 PM
Exactly. The honorable way to deal with a breach of flag etiquette is with correct etiquette. Let’s leave flag destruction to the other guys.
exception on April 6, 2008 at 3:20 PM
There is nothing worse than community service. Helping those that won’t lift a finger to help themselves.
manfriend on April 6, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Yes, maybe the patriot should pay for the property damage. But why does the school administration get a pass for not doing their job?
snaggletoothie on April 6, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Well, look on the bright side: if he’s going to be hanging around the Iraqi chief of state all the time for “reconciliation”, that means we’ll always be able to keep an eye on him.
Specifically an eye looking through a scope, down a long barrel, 2 miles away.
Virus-X on April 6, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Damn it, posted this on the wrong topic! Damn buttons!
Virus-X on April 6, 2008 at 3:35 PM
What I don’t get is why this makes him a racist.
4shoes on April 6, 2008 at 3:36 PM
It just ain’t right. Property rights I understand. Free speech I understand. It still ain’t right. What to do about it? We can’t sue em. We can’t jail em. We can’t take it down. So what can we do?
Elect judges who can tell the difference between common sense and common bullcrapola.
Limerick on April 6, 2008 at 3:44 PM
davidk on April 6, 2008 at 3:44 PM
Law and order.
He could have contacted the owner, the police, the sheriff, the mayor, or the media, but he didn’t. I don’t see the need for a harsh sentence, however. He should get at most a slap on the wrist and be required to pay for a new flag for the owner.
indythinker on April 6, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Because his act opposes liberalism.
indythinker on April 6, 2008 at 3:50 PM
Law and order…..then why can’t I erect a sign, in my own yard, that says ‘Mexicans Go Home’. My town government would land on me like Allah lands on Fredheads. So why is it ok to but a flag(sign) up in your own yard that says ‘Mexicans Welcome’? Why is one protected and the other not?
Limerick on April 6, 2008 at 3:54 PM
said the Judge (D) Antonio Rodriguez
Kaptain Amerika on April 6, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Crap sentence, crap charges, just crap from beginning to end. All the sympathies expressed for Mexicans flying the Mexican flag in America are crap.
Guy did the right thing the wrong way. Restitution to the owners of the Mexican flag and a brief instruction to them to fly the flag of this country highest, or fly nothing, would have been most appropriate.
Jaibones on April 6, 2008 at 4:03 PM
“said the Judge (D) Antonio Rodriguez”
What the judge was a Mexican? That’s a shocker! I guess that it’s ok to fly a Reconquista flag over an American University, but not ok to fly a confederate flag anywhere in America. Not that we needed any more reasons to deport illegal aliens.
orlandocajun on April 6, 2008 at 4:04 PM
I don’t know what’s worse…that somehow we allow the flags of other nations to be flown wherever anyone wants, or that some Southern states still fly the Confederate flag.
JetBoy on April 6, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Peter Lynch is less of a criminal than Mayor Gavin Newsom of San Francisco.
He spends $83,000 of city taxpayers’ money to INVITE illegal aliens to the city, and LIES to the federal government to get $3.7 million for reimbursement for prosecuting illegal invaders. That’s your tax money, friends.
Newsom lies, taxes rise.
fred5678 on April 6, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Does any nation have one or two flags?
You can’t have one nation with two different flags.
What is a nation?
A nation is a unity of people who share the same language, culture, traditions, borders, language, and in many cases, religion and race.
No nation in History has ever lasted without this unity.
Go look at your History books.
This nation is called:
The United States of America.
Keep it United or you are going to lose it.
Indy Conservative on April 6, 2008 at 4:23 PM
The illegals are getting really cocky. Heard about the illegal in New York who is suing the police department and the officer for reporting him to ICE? (Shame on the attorney who took the case.) Seems their case is the city violated its own sanctuary city policy by reporting an illegal.
Whose country is this anyway?
waterfall on April 6, 2008 at 4:28 PM
He should spend it working with the Minutemen on the southern border……….. that would be a hoot!
Seven Percent Solution on April 6, 2008 at 4:29 PM
The Confederate flag is a part of American history.
EnochCain on April 6, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Forgot this gem from the quoted story just above:
With criminal apologists like Newsom, our country is simply surrendering to invaders without a fight.
We need MORE Peter Lynch’s and FEWER Gavin Newsom’s.
fred5678 on April 6, 2008 at 4:30 PM
So when the day comes – and it will – that some foreigner – and it won’t matter what brand – tears down an American flag that belonged to someone else, will they be prosecuted?
splink on April 6, 2008 at 4:31 PM
The details of this story, such as they are, come from Assoc. Press. Something happened, but what won’t be known.
Tear down the flag if it’s flying alone over a public American university if the university won’t cooperate, and particularly if the flag is from or associated with a group like La Raza which wishes to see US sovereignty over the land ended.
JiangxiDad on April 6, 2008 at 4:36 PM
…”these dopey stories are usually good for 200 comments, so go crazy.”
No need AP, the world has already gone crazy, which is evident by this story; it’s another sign that we are losing the Republic.
If this so-called vigilante went too far it might be that he’s gone a little loopy in his desperation to save this country; my heart goes out to him, not the owner of the Mexican flag. If the owner is pleading ignorance, well, that’s no excuse, but the oligarchy has declared that the bulk of the punishment must be on Americans.
Christine on April 6, 2008 at 4:36 PM
And yet pissing on an American flag is free speech.
Liberals and their minions are pure scum.
Spartacus on April 6, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Well the Nazi flag is part of Germany’s history, but chances are you won’t see many of ‘em there.
The Confederate flag needs to be relegated to history’s trash bin. A war was fought, and the Confederacy lost. And when official state buildings fly that flag, it’s a disgrace to America, and to the many who died to keep the Union intact.
JetBoy on April 6, 2008 at 4:44 PM
If you don’t like the sentence, you ought to tell the Judge what you think of the decision, and perhaps organize a boycott of the town.
The Judge did not make this decision in a vacuum. There was more pain politically in not punishing the guy for La Raza, etc. than there was for a wrist slap (which happens all the time for La Raza).
Therefore, the political pain must be increased by the American, Patriotic side. There should be a boycott. A letter writing campaign. The Judge ought to feel the sting of criticism as a La Raza puppet. If nothing else, this should be good for the Mallard J. Fillmore cartoons.
It’s a clear case of legal Political Correctness at work. As such unless we want to turn into Scotland, we ought to push right back. On the town. On the Judge. Let them feel economic and critical pain. Greater than the PC pressure of La Raza.
whiskey_199 on April 6, 2008 at 4:49 PM
“The flag belonged to the campus group “La Raza” who accused Lynch of being a racist for taking down the flag.”
American patriots, rather than a group called “The Race”, are deemed racists. Yes, the world has gone crazy.
Christine on April 6, 2008 at 4:52 PM
And the people who left a red flag flying in a Bull pen are sanctioned exactly how?
With a new flag, so they can prove alternate sovereignty, again.
Speakup on April 6, 2008 at 5:00 PM
I would have pissed on it first.
Take that, “The Race”.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on April 6, 2008 at 5:04 PM
“La Raza” is racist. If these people are so proud of Mexico what are they doing here. I am becoming to believe the majority of Americans are appeasers and cowards especially the people in power.
apoole on April 6, 2008 at 5:08 PM
If I were the judge I would have asked the representative for la raza, who I would think probably testified, if he were an American citizen. No matter his answer I would then have asked what his intention was in flying another nations flag over US territory.
peacenprosperity on April 6, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Mexico is not our ally.
The Mexican flag has no place on an American campus.
La Raza should be designated a Hate Group by the Justice Dept.
“Por los ciudadanos todos . Por los ilegales nada.”
MCPO Airdale on April 6, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Limerick said:
You could have a sign that said “Deport Mexicans.” I’m not sure, but “Mexicans Go Home” is in a shade of gray area because it almost could be construed as a threat because of the implied “or else.”
If you ever want to know for sure, call up a First Amendment lawyer.
This is not legal advice.
indythinker on April 6, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Jetboy:
The war was fought, the Mexicans lost, so let’s relegate Mexican flags to the trash bin.
orlandocajun on April 6, 2008 at 5:25 PM
“Dopey,” AP? And, just HOW is it “dopey,” pray tell?
“Dopey” is how I would describe the would-be burglar who gets stuck in the exhaust fan outlet — not a vet who cares so deeply about his country’s flag that he is willing to act on the matter when no one else in authority will.
If people didn’t think it was important, you wouldn’t get 200-plus comments.
May I suggest that stories like this are volatile because they touch a nerve — not because they are “dopey?”
Surely you could have chosen a better adjective?
sanantonian on April 6, 2008 at 5:39 PM
I look forward to May, 01, 2008, in the U.S.A. It will provide ample renewed opportunities for all kinds of stupidity.
Entelechy on April 6, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Well Gringos, when my siervo Juan becomes el Presidente America del Norte, tearing down the sacred Mexican flag will be punishable by being sentenced to pick lettuce for ten years with daily waterboarding.
VinyFoxy on April 6, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Where are the strict constructionist when you need them?
It’s good to know that some of you believe property rights are not limitless propositions.
mycowardice on April 6, 2008 at 5:53 PM
And to think our forefather’s took up arms over something so mundane as a itty bitty stamp tax.
Gosh, I’m so glad we don’t get riled up about anything these days.
BowHuntingTexas on April 6, 2008 at 5:58 PM
I’m fine with the replacement of the flag part.
MB4 on April 6, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Why is there any other nation’s flag flying to begin with? I passed a van full of Mexican here in NC (not surprising since we are officially Little Mexico of the South), but when I saw “LA RAZA” on the van I nearly flipped out. I followed them until I could flip them off. Silly, yes, but dammit I felt better.
SouthernGent on April 6, 2008 at 6:05 PM
I think a lot of people here didn’t like Six Flags when they were kids.
exception on April 6, 2008 at 6:08 PM
I hope he pisses on the flag he has give to them.
Tim Burton on April 6, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Mexico is a third world garbage dump.
revolution on April 6, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Amazing isn’t it? George and Thomas would be sorely disappointed in their “children”.
Tim Burton on April 6, 2008 at 6:13 PM
That would be a nice touch as it would smell more like Mexico then.
MB4 on April 6, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Get ready people, for the “New” La Raza……..
Kinda brings up a warm feeling for Kennedy/McCain, doesn’t it……..
Seven Percent Solution on April 6, 2008 at 6:16 PM
And all comming to a barrio near you soon, Gringo.
What is Mexico today, will be America tomorrow. Wait and see.
Si el amor Mexico
Apoyo Juan
VinyFoxy on April 6, 2008 at 6:22 PM
Vinyfoxy, In under 5 years the Mexican illegals and people in Mexico will have a palestianian type flag that they will start flying over the southwest U.S. and claim it as a seperate nation
jed58 on April 6, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Whomever said Mexico is an “ally” to the U.S., please list the reasons how and why? I laugh in your face over that claim.
jed58 on April 6, 2008 at 6:46 PM
My first encounter traveling to Mexico was in 1971 crossing the border at Laredo. The legal process was stop your car at their checkpoint, it was then swarmed by Mexican “police border guards” who were looking for contraband. I had my wife and two kids. They did a swift look see, slapped the tourist sticker in the window and all held their hand out. I gave them all a buck or two and the leader wanted more or I couldn’t proceed. Later on well into the country I stopped for gas at their State run Pemex. I was told I needed oil which the boy put in. I bent down to read the “empty” oil can and it was still over half full. I told the chagrined looking boy to put it all in. Nothing has changed in this corrupt cesspool for the last 500 years. It might as well have been a skull & cross bones flag flying.
wepeople on April 6, 2008 at 6:51 PM
VinyFoxy, I live about 40 miles to the north of the Mexican border, as the crow flies……
I grew up crossing that border, enjoying the Mexican culture, people, food, camping, and surf spots…..
But today, I don’t recognize our cousin country from only twenty years ago….
Mexico’s uber-nationalism is seen with contempt and confusion to many in the United States….
How can groups like “La Raza”, and individuals like yourself, be so proud of the current government and society of Mexico, that you want to infect the rest of this hemisphere with it?
Mexico has turned into a Narco-State, bought and paid for by the drug cartels, and your only solution to the problem is to invade the United States to get away from it, instead of fighting the corruption yourselves, and blaming the United States for being “racists” if we complain about it?
If you would only fight for your own country, you would see a tremendous amount of support from the United States.
But by crossing illegally, overwhelming our hospitals, schools, social services, and influencing our demographics, all the time waiving the Mexican flag in our face, has only caused contempt.
The citizens of the United States are gracious and patient. It takes a while to change the course of the “Big Gray Ship”, and actions like the upcomming protest on May 1st, will have it’s effect.
But I don’t think it will be the effect that you want Viny.
The only thing you are doing is pissing off more people that five years ago were tolerant, and right now are signing up to be MinuteMen.
Wait and see, indeed, Viny, I have my eye on owning Baja California, esse…….
Seven Percent Solution on April 6, 2008 at 6:52 PM
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S.. During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don’t believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
- David J. Stoddard, 27 year veteran of the Border Patrol
MB4 on April 6, 2008 at 6:53 PM
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