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Zero-tolerance stupidity: 6-year-old labeled a “sexual harasser” Update: Sexual Harassment Panda

posted at 11:45 am on April 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Parents around the nation have learned that the proper translation for the phrase “zero tolerance” means “complete lack of common sense”. The latest evidence for this comes from a Woodbridge, Maryland elementary school that labeled a six-year-old boy a sexual deviant for slapping a girl on the buttocks during recess. Instead of detention, Potomac View called the police:

In schools across the country, kids as young as three and four are now facing charges of sexual harassment that will stay with them permanently on their school records.

These so-called “zero-tolerance” polices, designed to protect students from weapons and drugs or sexual violence, are often being taken quite literally.

Randy Castro, 7, who likes recess and soccer, now has an alarming red flag in his school records. It started on the playground with a first grade classmate.

“I saw another kid like hitting her butt so I did it,” Castro said.

His Potomac View Elementary School then called the police and wrote him up as a sexual harasser. Woodbridge, Md. school officials described the incident as “Sexual Touching Against Student, Offensive,” in their report.

The only thing offensive is the administration of Potomac View and schools like it around the country acting out of a prurient hysteria over simple playground issues. Anyone who reads sexual intent or even a dim understanding of sexuality at all in a six-year-old needs extensive counseling far more than the children they supervise. Calling the police for a disciplinary issue amounts to a complete capitulation of the administration’s authority over the children and a highly distorted sense of priorities.

Nor is Potomac View alone in this issue. In Maryland alone, 166 elementary-school students got suspended for sexual harassment last year. Those figures include 22 first-graders, 16 kindergartners, and three pre-schoolers. In Virginia, ABC News reports, 255 elementary-school children got suspended last year for the same reasons.

It comes down to the application of “zero tolerance”. While assaulting a female on the buttocks or the breast in middle school and high school may indeed have sexual motivations, it hardly applies to three- and four-year-olds. Some prepubescents may have sexual motivations for assaults, but they’re the exception and not the rule. However, thanks to gutless administrators and school boards, they treat every child exactly the same without consideration of context, intent, or circumstances — and in so doing, put labels on children that brand them as sex offenders throughout their educational career.

Zero tolerance — zero brains. We pay administrators to use judgment and discretion, not to act as robots. If they can’t handle it, then they should leave and work in assembly lines or other vocations that don’t require mature analysis. Small wonder that more and more parents choose to home-school their children than leaving them to the knee-jerk mercy of modern public-school administrators.

Update: This story makes all of us very sad pandas. Get ready for fiction to become reality (definitely NSFW):


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Comment pages: 1 2

Do public schools actually perform any thing having to do with actual education these days, or is that just not trendy and exciting enough for them?

The whole country has become little amateur lawyers now, I blame all those stupid lawyer shows on TV along with all the lawyer movies and books.

Should be bounties out on lawyers. $4 an ear they get for Nutria, lawyer ears should get at least $10.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 11:48 AM

so, schools and Hussein Obama want to teach sex ed to the young ‘uns, but when they act out on what the see or hear, they become a “sexual harasser”?

WTF?

madmonkphotog on April 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Maybe she had a really nice bum worthy of a little tap. You would think being 7 years old and having to clue about puberty or the birds and the bees would speak volumes to these school administration noobs.

Geronimo on April 4, 2008 at 11:53 AM

People wonder why so many parents are pulling their kids out of the public school system and turning to charter or private schools instead.

JeffinSac on April 4, 2008 at 11:53 AM

How many cases of sexual harassment do you see in this picture?

4 – each of the guys with each of the gals. Note of course that if the 2 guys or the 2 gals were to act out among themselves, that wouldn’t qualify.

infidelpride on April 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM

I blame the trial lawyers. This just smacks of deep CYA. ‘Cause you know that SOME moron SOMEWHERE is going to try to sue a school district because 3 year-old Dakota was “harassed” by 3-year old Cooper’s diaper-brand curiosity. “Are you wearing Dora diapers or Sesame Street? Lemme see!”

GISAP on April 4, 2008 at 11:55 AM

The same people who run around public schools collaring 6 year olds for sexual harrassment are the same people telling us that single sex classrooms amount to segregation.

Public schools are becoming nothing but job factories for bonehead liberals.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Zero tolerance, in this context, is a sanctimonious label applied to systematic child abuse. Any written policies that are leading to this kind of demonization of children should be exposed in a book or by an honest MSM journalist. Along with a list of these horrible consequences and the story of each individual child’s case.

RushBaby on April 4, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Good thing he didn’t help her cut her sandwich with a pocket knife. Poor kid would be in prison now.

kirkill on April 4, 2008 at 11:56 AM

I had a kindergartener suspended twice this year for sexual harassment. The principal said it is very common. Very odd.

Cheerio on April 4, 2008 at 11:56 AM

This is the answer.

jgapinoy on April 4, 2008 at 11:57 AM

Yep, the same school system that is doing such a good job that only HALF of the kids are graduating High School on time…

Scary, very scary.

But hey, no child is left behind… right???

Romeo13 on April 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Ed-

It’s probably Woodbridge, VA. I’ve never heard of Woodbridge, Md, it was probably a mistake on ABC’s part.

Lance Murdock on April 4, 2008 at 12:03 PM

Actually if you google Potomac View Elementary School it comes up as a school in Woodbridge, VA.

Lance Murdock on April 4, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Looking at the thumbnail, the girl pictured on the left is inappropriately touching the boy’s right shoulder.

Or, maybe it’s the boy pictured at far left. He seems to have violated the girl’s personal privacy space by suggestively leaning in towards her.

*gasp*

CliffHanger on April 4, 2008 at 12:05 PM

In Maryland alone, 166 elementary-school students got suspended for sexual harassment last year.

So…this “zero tolerance” policy seems to be working…?

JetBoy on April 4, 2008 at 12:05 PM

Give him jail time, that deviant.

I would really hope that his parents would be fighting this in any way possible.

Grafted on April 4, 2008 at 12:06 PM

my wife works at a day care with 5 year olds and she is constantly telling them that they have to stop touching. The sexualization of children at a young age is happening at a much faster pace.

maybe if they had easy access to birth control….

disco on April 4, 2008 at 12:07 PM

You have to be a little twisted to think that spanking is sexual.

ronsfi on April 4, 2008 at 12:09 PM

There was one case, when I was in South Carolina where a kid (6th grader?) was facing expulsion for bringing a knife to school to cut up his banana. It was a butter knife.

Trial lawyers have helped chase common sense out of our schools, but they’ve been aided and abetted by school administrations that only want to follow the hottest new trend instead of teaching kids reading, writing and arithmetic. With a healthy dose of sports/PE and music/arts on the side.

rbj on April 4, 2008 at 12:11 PM

maybe if they had easy access to birth control….

I think birth control is now available in Cherry, Grape and Bubblegum flavors…

CliffHanger on April 4, 2008 at 12:12 PM

These cases are becoming really common. What a crock of dookie-poopoo.

Tzetzes on April 4, 2008 at 12:13 PM

But hey, no child is left behind… right???

Romeo13 on April 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Was that pun intended? :mrgreen:

Bigfoot on April 4, 2008 at 12:14 PM

C’mon pull your heads out of the sands, that kid was obviously a budding sexual deviant and the school had no choice. Slapping buttocks? Just imagined what he would have done next! I say bravo to the school for recognizing this and taking action before this kid full on sexually assaults some poor little second grader!

/sarc

saltydogg14 on April 4, 2008 at 12:14 PM

so, schools and Hussein Obama want to teach sex ed to the young ‘uns, but when they act out on what the see or hear, they become a “sexual harasser”?

WTF?

madmonkphotog on April 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Excellent point, the company I work for all employees are required to complete Sexual Harassment training.

The information in this training is ridiculous; things one would normally think are innocuous are suddenly considered “sexual harassment.” Don’t get me wrong there are some people out there that are in serious need of sexual harassment training and must be dealt with, but most of it is BS, especially when one is dealing with a 7 year old!

I have a saying here at work, “sexual harassment will not be tolerated, it will be graded!” Ooops, I guess I need some refresher training….

Liberty or Death on April 4, 2008 at 12:17 PM

This is why there needs to be a serious re-evaluation and full-blown overhauling of the public school system as it is at present. What is going on in the schools right now like what happened to this kid is an example of Political Correctness gone berserk. When six year olds are being labeled sexual harassers for giving another kid something as mundane as a slap on the rear, something is clearly wrong with the system. The thing that burns me is that we are the ones who are paying these clowns with our tax dollars to instigate insane “zero tolerance” policies. That is kind of why they call it the PUBLIC School System, PUBLIC meaning us. So why aren’t we exercising our own rights and throwing goofball administrators like the loons running this school out on their collective ears? Why isn’t there any outcry from the parents whose kids go to this school demanding an explanation for what happened to this kid here? What is it going to take for anyone to see that when a system is broken, you don’t keep letting it run like it is until it totally falls to pieces? It’s called you fix it! What these idiots did to this kid is not fixing the system, it’s just speeding up it’s eventual collapse!

pilamaye on April 4, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Is this the same public education system that uses the reasoning to provide sex education classes and condoms to underage students that “they are going to have sex anyway.”

Public School View…at age 4,5,6,7 you are not allow to hug or touch a classmate. at age 8,9,10,11 etc you are taught sex education, because kids are going to have sex anyway. WHAT???

No wonder kids are so messed up.

PappaMac on April 4, 2008 at 12:25 PM

I love how we have tolerance preached in our schools. We must have tolerance of difference. Then a child behaves like a child and suddenly we have zero tolerance. We could use another Orwell to put this into perspective.

indythinker on April 4, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Billy Jeff was not available for comment.

So a friendly reminder is in order ……

Human Behavior 101: BJs are not a sexual act. They are harmless, fun and feel particularly good under a desk in the Oval Office while your wife is upstairs discovering missing Whitewater documents.

MSM Behavior 101: “Clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap”

Honestly, I just don’t know where these children have been led astray.

fogw on April 4, 2008 at 12:33 PM

pilamaye

Did you see my link at 11:57AM? It’s the overhaul you’re looking for.

jgapinoy on April 4, 2008 at 12:34 PM

BJ is not a sexual act–Billy Jeff

It all depends on what the meaning of is is.

jgapinoy on April 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM

I believe that Freud would say that these people are showing us a little insight into their sexual frustration…

…not the kids, but the teachers and school officials that think that a bunch of kids playing and swatting each other on the backside is in any way a sign of sexual harrassment.

PappaMac on April 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Parents around the nation have learned that the proper translation for the phrase “zero tolerance” means “complete lack of common sense”.

Yup!

This crap simply points to the obvious perversion so prevalent in the leftist-utopian mindset – everything & everyone can & will be sexualized. Even children.

I’ll start my broken record again:

VOTE SCHOOL VOUCHERS – VOTE SCHOOL CHOICE

After all, who could be opposed to choice? – except far left fascists h3ll bent on keeping control of your tax dollars, even at the expense of your child’s education…..

locomotivebreath1901 on April 4, 2008 at 12:38 PM

So a 7-yr-old smacking a fellow student’s behind is worthy of throwing the book at him full-force, but plotting to kidnap and murder your teacher is just “imaginative play.”

aero on April 4, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Zero-tolerance is simply the abrogation of responsibility for exercising sound judgment. The schools get sued because their asshat employees either misuse their discretion or because some asshat parent goes and sues them for no good reason (plenty of asshattery to go around). By setting zero-tolerance policies, they eliminate legal gray areas that can get them into trouble. We can accuse them of taking the easy and unprincipled way out, but with the legal system being as screwed up as it is I have some sympathy for the situation. South Park mocked the situation in the Sexual Harrasment Panda episode.

ErikTheRed on April 4, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Adults, can’t live with em, pass the beer nuts.

Kini on April 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM

The usefulness of gov schools is over. Open the market up.

thatcher on April 4, 2008 at 12:46 PM

But hey, no child is left behind… right???

Romeo13 on April 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM

No Child’s Behind Left Behind.

inviolet on April 4, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Parents around the nation have learned that the proper translation for the phrase “zero tolerance” means “complete lack of common sense

Just the other day, I tried to give my 16yo son a small tube of hydrocortisone to put on a rash he had. He told me, “Oh no dad, I can’t take that to school. I could be suspended.” I told him to take it anyway and use it in the bathroom stall where no one could see and I would deal with any consequences. Just soooo stupid!

brtex on April 4, 2008 at 12:56 PM

ugggg. this is the one area of PC-ness that drives me nuttier than the rest.

Drunk Report on April 4, 2008 at 12:57 PM


they treat every child exactly the same without consideration of context, intent, or circumstances —

That is until the child becomes an adult miscreant, then they find every excuse they can think of to blame it on something or someone else. “Oh, its not their fault, they were falsely tagged as a sexual harasser in grade school.”.

belad on April 4, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Randy Castro

Dude

You can’t make this up ;)

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Does their “zero tolerance” policy apply to parents showing up at school and delivering to administrators the beatings they so clearly need and deserve?

They need more of a “zero tolerance” policy against zealous stupidity by education staff. Suspend a kindergardner for “sexual harassment”, get fired.

Hollowpoint on April 4, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Can someone please tell me how a little kid can be labeled a sexual harrasser. And grown adults who have affairs with their students are simply allowed to resign without even a spot on their permanent record. Twisted, really twisted.

appst38 on April 4, 2008 at 1:02 PM

OK, here’re the facts:

1. One child plays with another child.
2. An adult teacher sees children play and starts thinking about sex involving minors.

Why does she still have a teaching license?

freevillage on April 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM

If they do that to a little kid, what should they do to all those Pro Football players that are always slapping each other on the butt…..hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm?

DoctorDentons on April 4, 2008 at 1:04 PM

No child of mine will see the inside of a government concentration camp.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:06 PM

DoctorDentons on April 4, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Dude! Excellent point!

ronsfi on April 4, 2008 at 1:07 PM

…In other news, the NFL fined Terrel Owens $4000 for sexual harassment of teammate Tony Romo. Owens claimed the butt-slapping was innocent & harmless…

jgapinoy on April 4, 2008 at 1:11 PM

How about this?

I thought school sucked when I was attending. I have to keep a sharp eye on what my kids are being taught by their “teachers”. The daily de-programming after school.

Talon on April 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Don’t worry. When all of the little darlings are only interested in those of their own gender, Utopia will have been reached.

All is well.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM

So, attempt to poison your 5th grade teacher because she rolled her eyes at you? Back to class!

Slap a classmate on the rump after she makes a good play in a game? SEXUAL DEVIANT

Yeah, that makes sense.

Remember the 3rd graders who were gonna knife their teacher? I don’t think they got expelled even though they had weapons and materials to restrain her in the school building.

Dangerous kids stay, normal kids get terrorized.

funky chicken on April 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM

We have a choice this fall – elect one of two worthless idiot lawyers who doubtlessly are the darlings of the idiots who run our public schools (into the ground), or an actual adult.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Freevillage,

Great question. The answer? Tenure.

Ed Morrissey on April 4, 2008 at 1:13 PM

they treat every child exactly the same without consideration of context, intent, or circumstances — and in so doing, put labels on children that brand them as sex offenders throughout their educational career.

I doubt very much that they treat every child the same. I’d be willing to bet that very few girls who slap boys’ butts get disciplined at all.

Just more misandry from the female supremacists who run our public education system.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 1:15 PM

Great question. The answer? Tenure.

Ed Morrissey on April 4, 2008 at 1:13 PM

A private institution is free to offer whatever contractual deal it chooses, but these are public employees! Where on earth did any subdivision of the government derive the authority to grant super-constitutional protection to public employees? Utterly illegitimate.

All tenure for public servants must be abolished.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:18 PM

O

K, here’re the facts:

1. One child plays with another child.
2. An adult teacher sees children play and starts thinking about sex involving minors.

Why does she still have a teaching license?

freevillage on April 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM

Damn good question.

However I’m sure a Girl slaming or touching another Girl or a Boy on a Boy would be no problem at all… no matter what the age.

CrazyFool on April 4, 2008 at 1:21 PM

The FemiNazis have won.

Metro on April 4, 2008 at 1:21 PM

In Maryland alone, 166 elementary-school students got suspended for sexual harassment last year.

And yet the kids who were planning to off their teachers get what…? A short vacation? Nothing. That’s very sad and scary and is quite an indicator of where this country is going.

4shoes on April 4, 2008 at 1:21 PM

My wife won’t let me slap her butt either. Has the whole world gone crazy?

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:22 PM

Yet another reason to homeschool your child…

Wait a sec! That point was already made!

newton on April 4, 2008 at 1:22 PM

I thank God every day I don’t have kids in government schools. It is hard to imagine how parents deal with what is going on daily in their kids schools with the idiots running the schools.
L

letget on April 4, 2008 at 1:23 PM

No mystery that the quality of schools is in the toilet…and still digging!!! We’re teaching the next generation that school teachers and administrators are all complete idiots who are incapable of rational judgment!!!

So who will want to be a future teacher? Only someone who thinks of himself as an idiot incapable of rational judgment!!

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Moronic in a way that only public schools can be.

But if one trusts one’s kid into the hands of government handlers and governement morals, what does one expect?

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:24 PM

You ask which one in the picture is the sexual harasser. It has to be white kid in the middle.

roux on April 4, 2008 at 1:25 PM

“It is hard to imagine how parents deal with what is going on daily in their kids schools with the idiots running the schools.”

Idiots who we are forced to pay salaries.

The only thing “public” about education should be the funding. “Public” schools should be forced to compete for students.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 1:26 PM

And how does this square with the folks who are pushing girls onto football teams???

When the ref blows his whistle during a high school game involving both sexes do the cops come running?

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 1:31 PM

Do public schools actually perform any thing having to do with actual education these days,

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Yes. They educate children to accept the authority and morality of the state and bend unquestioningly to their will.

And from what I see, they’re doing a bang-up job.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Wow, there is a lot of hate going on for public educators.

So all you haters really think the ranks are filled with idiots? It’s been my experience that the teachers are caring and selfless and love the kids. Hell, they spend part of their measly paycheck just to buy stuff for the classroom.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM

they treat every child exactly the same without consideration of context, intent, or circumstances —

That is until the child becomes an adult miscreant, then they find every excuse they can think of to blame it on something or someone else. “Oh, its not their fault, they were falsely tagged as a sexual harasser in grade school.”.

belad on April 4, 2008 at 12:58 PM

So true, so true.

4shoes on April 4, 2008 at 1:36 PM

In first grade, I walked to the corner, in line after school and kissed the girl next to when we were dismissed. I had my eye on her since kindergarten, and had nothing to lose. The teacher told me that only sissies kiss girls. Something did not ring true in that statement.

Today’s first grade masher gets arrested and put on medication. Seem appropriate, unless it’s directed at a same sex partner. Then the ACLU would cover you.

Hening on April 4, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Time to start sounding like radicals:

Nuke the entire damned system and start over from scratch.

Do you suppose a full-access voucher system would reduce the litigiousness of the average parent?

philwynk on April 4, 2008 at 1:37 PM

So all you haters really think the ranks are filled with idiots?

Why don’t you give us the benefit of your communist pedophile opinion?

You’re not a communist pedophile? Oops. I misunderstood the rules of the game. I thought we were mindlessly slinging accusations at one another. My bad.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM

I thought we were mindlessly slinging accusations at one another. My bad.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM

You’re right, the opinions of public schools are pretty balanced on this thread.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:41 PM

And from what I see, they’re doing a bang-up job.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM

AAAAARGHHH!!!! YOU CAN’T SAY “BANG-UP”!!!

OFF TO THE PRINCIPAL’S OFFICE: HE’LL CALL THE COPS!!!

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Do you suppose a full-access voucher system would reduce the litigiousness of the average parent?

philwynk on April 4, 2008 at 1:37 PM

No. It would shift the incentives influencing the teachers. The parents can ‘vote’ by yanking their child (and money) out and going elsewhere.

I don’t see how restructuring the funding system would have much effect on litigation, other than perhaps enabling parents to move kids around before litigation became necessary.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Wow, there is a lot of hate going on for public educators.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM

I just want it known that I’m not trying to express hate for government educators. I don’t hate people who work at the welfare office or the DMV either (well, maybe the people at the DMV, a little). But all of these government programs are broken and often wind up doing more harm than good to the people they are intended to serve. Their priority is to serve the government’s interest, not their client’s interests. It’s the government way.

I’m pointing out that people who trust their kids to these institutions shouldn’t be surprised when the system messes with or messes up their kids.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM

You’re right, the opinions of public schools are pretty balanced on this thread.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:41 PM

And this means what? That we’re ‘haters’? Get a clue. You’re hardly likely to find a great deal of sympathy for government schools here, especially when discussing the most egregious aspects of their idiocy.

You want luvvy-duvvy public education smoochfest? Adios.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:46 PM

AAAAARGHHH!!!! YOU CAN’T SAY “BANG-UP”!!!

OFF TO THE PRINCIPAL’S OFFICE: HE’LL CALL THE COPS!!!

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Wanna hear something funny? When I was in Jr. High, I once told a kid that he was the result of a leaky rubber (that’s not the funny part, that was juvenile).

The funny part is that the teacher heard about it and I almost got sent to the principal’s office. Not for the insult, but for talking about a condom in school.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Zero tolerance — zero brains. We pay administrators to use judgment and discretion, not to act as robots.

Precisely. This is the sort of “problem” that teachers used to handle routinely by, you know, educating their students. If (and I emphasize “if“) the boy’s behavior was over the line, a little talk about “playing too rough with girls,” followed by an apology to the girl, would have turned this “problem” into a learning experience that would have been positive for both of the kids. But that approach would involve teaching, which scares the hell out of our government-union school system. The public school system is far beyond reform. It must be privatized, and the sooner, the better.

Bugler on April 4, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Wow, there is a lot of hate going on for public educators.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM

As has been pointed out, good people can work in a destructive system. The system needs to go, hopefully some or all of those good people will find a way to go on.

Or, for the sake of those PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, we should leave our nation’s children in the care of a system that sexualizes, criminalizes, and in fact does just about everything BUT educate them?

No, sorry, you lose. Education isn’t an employment program, it’s there for the kids, not the teachers. And it has failed miserably, it needs to go.

Not reform, as people have been failing to do for 40 years, GO. SHUT DOWN. OUT ON THE STREET. Then start again.

Merovign on April 4, 2008 at 1:52 PM

Parents around the nation have learned that the proper translation for the phrase “zero tolerance” means “complete lack of common sense”.

More “zero tolerance” insanity and we have certainly seen
more than enough of that lately.

LL

Lady Logician on April 4, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Wow, there is a lot of hate going on for public educators.

So all you haters really think the ranks are filled with idiots?
tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM

Short answer: Yes. Not all, certainly- but there are far, far too many of these stories for any other explanation to make sense.

Hollowpoint on April 4, 2008 at 1:53 PM

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM

I remember having a blazing fight when I was little. We were slamming each other into lockers and everything – full-on kiddie combat.

A teacher interrupted our mayhem, so we explained that “we were having a difference of opinion”, and were promptly told to bugger off and fight elsewhere.

The good ol’ days.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:53 PM

You want luvvy-duvvy public education smoochfest? Adios.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 1:46 PM

I want some respect for the people who do their best to help kids.

I’m going to stand by my ‘hater’ label, especially given the snarky tone of your posts.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:53 PM

I’m just glad that the little darling didn’t go back into the classroom and draw a pistol. Had he done so, his little ass would’ve been sent straight to the State prison. We simply can’t have a misogynist and a murderer living in the same little boy.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 4, 2008 at 1:57 PM

I want some respect for the people who do their best to help kids.

You think this is something you can demand? How about earning it? Individuals may well be meritorious, but it is the system I object to. The system. System. Do I need to break out the crayolas for your benefit?

I’m going to stand by my ‘hater’ label, especially given the snarky tone of your posts.

Yes yes yes, I assumed you would. Commie.

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM

I’m just glad that the little darling didn’t go back into the classroom and draw a pistol

I’d be impressed he could handle a gun at his age/sixe ;)

LimeyGeek on April 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM

So all you haters really think the ranks are
filled with idiots? It’s been my experience that the teachers are caring and selfless and love the kids. Hell, they spend part of their measly paycheck just to buy stuff for the classroom.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM

Basic skills are vital and impact a child for his/her entire life: there is no “do-over”!!! There may well be good, capable people in the system, but capabilities unused/suppressed and good intentions don’t count!!!

No matter how nice a guy the farmer is…no matter how much of his own money he spent on his farm, I’ll bet you wouldn’t buy a rotted, stinking melon from him!!! RESULTS MATTER!!!

When the vast majority of kids graduate knowing how to read, write, and make change, I’ll be first in line to congratulate the educators for a job well done!!!

UNTIL THEN, the educational establishment has earned my contempt!!!

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM

“Hell, they spend part of their measly paycheck just to buy stuff for the classroom.”

Maybe some places.

I know an Art Teacher who pulls in $80K a year, and that’s for a 180 day work year. She’s been there for 20 years, but still, I’m not weeping for her financial condition.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Wow, there is a lot of hate going on for public educators.

So all you haters really think the ranks are filled with idiots? It’s been my experience that the teachers are caring and selfless and love the kids. Hell, they spend part of their measly paycheck just to buy stuff for the classroom.

tlynch001

Nope, some public school educators, like my sister, are outstanding teachers. However the “measly paycheck” is bovine excrement. Based on hours worked, public school teachers average higher wages than many other professions, some with considerably more required training than education.

My sister and brother in law are both public school teachers. He drives a Cadillac, she drives a Lincoln.

According to the American Federation of Teachers, the avg salary for a US public school teacher in 2004-05 was $47,602. Based on a 40 hour week and a 50 week work year, that works out to over $23/hr which is pretty good pay. Of course, no public school teachers put in 2000 hrs of work a year. They work about 6 hours a day, 9 months out of the year, and they get two long paid vacations in the winter and and spring. Based on actual hours worked on the clock it’s actually about $44/hr. Don’t bother with the teachers’ union propaganda about working on lesson plans at night or having to buy supplies for their students. Perhaps if there were fewer union represented teachers’ aides there might be more money in the budget for things that are actually needed. Most experienced teachers use the same lesson plans from year to year with minor revisions. Most homework is graded in school while the class is doing busywork.

It’s funny, but I’ve never heard a private or parochial school teacher complain about the amount of time they put in outside the classroom, but with public school teachers the “spends hours at night and money out of their own pockets” tropes are a matter of religious faith.

Public school administrators are just as bad as the unions. I doubt there’s a single district superintendent in Michigan who makes less than six figures.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:06 PM

I want some respect for the people who do their best to help kids.

I do too, tlynch. No one has more respect for good teachers than I do. That’s why I want them out of this ridiculous government educational system.

Bugler on April 4, 2008 at 2:07 PM

I spent 3 years teaching in public schools and have several thoughts on this.

First, the sexual harassment charge is totally over the line, but not surprising considering who some of the administrators are. The only requirement for becoming a school administrator is usually 5 years in the classroom and having a Masters of Education degree. A degree that is pretty much completely useless except for the fact it gets you more pay.

Second, the police are involved quite often for what you would think are situations the school should be able to handle because there are no meaningful punishments left for the school to use. Where I taught it was standard practice to have the kids arrested for Affray when they were fighting. When I first started I was horrified by this. But soon I realized that there was no punishment the school could hand out in these cases that would have made an impact on the kids and the school wouldn’t have faced a lawsuit. This is generally because of unreasonable parents and school administrators who are running scared. It is a deadly combination when it comes to the ability to effectively discipline students.

Third, sorry

Talon on April 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM

This is just an example of unreasonable parents. The kid was not suspended for sniffing a marker. He was suspended for continuing to sniff the marker after being repeatedly told not too. When he didn’t comply he was suspended. His parents don’t like the fact he got in trouble, but if your child repeatedly ignores what he is told to do in school, he should be in trouble. What do you suggest the school does to a student that continues to do something he has been repeatedly told not to do? Based on how the parents reacted, spanking the child for disobeying would have been a lawsuit, so sending him home is pretty much all you have left. If you are going to be outraged and take the side of the parents on this, you are probably part of the problem too.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:09 PM

“Hell, they spend part of their measly paycheck just to buy stuff for the classroom.”

Maybe some places.

I know an Art Teacher who pulls in $80K a year, and that’s for a 180 day work year. She’s been there for 20 years, but still, I’m not weeping for her financial condition.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 2:05 PM

You said it. A friend of my owns a shop by a High School. She gets teachers in all the time talking about their vacation houses and whether they should spend the summer there or out of the country.

She never knew about this before she opened the shop and has been stunned.

I had a coworker whose wife trained to be a teacher and the whole time he lamented how little she would be making. Then she got hired and he wouldn’t stop bragging about how much she was bringing in fresh out of college.

He, also, was stunned.

The schools get $10K a kid around here. That means that the average classroom is getting over a quarter of a million a year. If the system can’t make due with that then I have no sympathy for them. Maybe the next time the teachers strike they should worry less about how much they are getting paid and more about where that quarter million is going.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM

I want some respect for the people who do their best to help kids.

tlynch001

Tell us, please, what are the #1 priorities for the AFT and NEA, who represent public school teachers. Is their primary interest quality education or is their primary interest the financial and job security of their members?

If they are doing their best to help kids, why do the teachers’ unions oppose vouchers and school choice?

In this state, public schools spend over $8000/year/student. Quality parochial schools spend about $5000/year/student with much better results than the public schools.

If anyone other than the Democrats and teachers unions ran public education in this country we’d be a little more open about the failures of the system.

I’d like to hear how conservatives are responsible for the Detroit public schools having a dropout rate over 50%.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM

They work about 6 hours a day, 9 months out of the year, and they get two long paid vacations in the winter and and spring.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:06 PM

If I may… your numbers are a little off. I don’t know about the rest of the country, but the schools around here also get three and four day weekends on a regular basis, often twice a month.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 2:18 PM

My son was “diagnosed” as A.D.D. in second grade. Being
low income we received state help (maine), which meant
rittilan (not spelled corectly). As the years went by,
the school became more active with the state programs an
they received financial support for special education.
We were told he needed MORE drugs and soon he was on a
coctale of 4 meds. Jesse (our son) hated these meds and
when we tried to have him taken off of them we were told
we would be reported to authorities and could end up losing
custody of him. The coctale he was on turned out to have
severe side effects, to include suicidel thoughts, we
did not find out about that untill after the fact. I never
agreed with the diagnosis, but kept it to myself all those
years thinking I better let the experts decide these things
and could not have been more wrong. I am sorry to have
drifted so far from the main topic, but in a way it is
the same topic. Anyone who lets the schools, or the govt.
decide what is best for your kids could end up where I am.
Take back the schools, take back the control over your own
lives. These “little things” are more important then you
might want to believe.

aceinstall on April 4, 2008 at 2:21 PM

If I may… your numbers are a little off. I don’t know about the rest of the country, but the schools around here also get three and four day weekends on a regular basis, often twice a month.

Not to mention the paid days off for “inservice training”, which is a joke compared to the continuing professional education that doctors and lawyers must attend as a condition of keeping their licenses.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:23 PM

I’m sorry, aceinstall. I’m sure you did your best.

Bugler on April 4, 2008 at 2:25 PM

I give up. I really should be focusing on work. Yes, teachers work only half a year. Yes, they leave promptly at 3:00. Yes, they have fancy cars and vacation homes. And they take secret brainwash your kids classes.

And I’m a commie.

tlynch001 on April 4, 2008 at 2:26 PM

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