Zero-tolerance stupidity: 6-year-old labeled a “sexual harasser” Update: Sexual Harassment Panda

posted at 11:45 am on April 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Parents around the nation have learned that the proper translation for the phrase “zero tolerance” means “complete lack of common sense”. The latest evidence for this comes from a Woodbridge, Maryland elementary school that labeled a six-year-old boy a sexual deviant for slapping a girl on the buttocks during recess. Instead of detention, Potomac View called the police:

In schools across the country, kids as young as three and four are now facing charges of sexual harassment that will stay with them permanently on their school records.

These so-called “zero-tolerance” polices, designed to protect students from weapons and drugs or sexual violence, are often being taken quite literally.

Randy Castro, 7, who likes recess and soccer, now has an alarming red flag in his school records. It started on the playground with a first grade classmate.

“I saw another kid like hitting her butt so I did it,” Castro said.

His Potomac View Elementary School then called the police and wrote him up as a sexual harasser. Woodbridge, Md. school officials described the incident as “Sexual Touching Against Student, Offensive,” in their report.

The only thing offensive is the administration of Potomac View and schools like it around the country acting out of a prurient hysteria over simple playground issues. Anyone who reads sexual intent or even a dim understanding of sexuality at all in a six-year-old needs extensive counseling far more than the children they supervise. Calling the police for a disciplinary issue amounts to a complete capitulation of the administration’s authority over the children and a highly distorted sense of priorities.

Nor is Potomac View alone in this issue. In Maryland alone, 166 elementary-school students got suspended for sexual harassment last year. Those figures include 22 first-graders, 16 kindergartners, and three pre-schoolers. In Virginia, ABC News reports, 255 elementary-school children got suspended last year for the same reasons.

It comes down to the application of “zero tolerance”. While assaulting a female on the buttocks or the breast in middle school and high school may indeed have sexual motivations, it hardly applies to three- and four-year-olds. Some prepubescents may have sexual motivations for assaults, but they’re the exception and not the rule. However, thanks to gutless administrators and school boards, they treat every child exactly the same without consideration of context, intent, or circumstances — and in so doing, put labels on children that brand them as sex offenders throughout their educational career.

Zero tolerance — zero brains. We pay administrators to use judgment and discretion, not to act as robots. If they can’t handle it, then they should leave and work in assembly lines or other vocations that don’t require mature analysis. Small wonder that more and more parents choose to home-school their children than leaving them to the knee-jerk mercy of modern public-school administrators.

Update: This story makes all of us very sad pandas. Get ready for fiction to become reality (definitely NSFW):


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Life used to imitate art. Now it just imitates South Park. Great.

Capitana on April 4, 2008 at 2:27 PM

yet another prime example of liberal political correctness run amok.

kirkill on April 4, 2008 at 2:28 PM

WaPo has a in depth account of this. If you read the whole thing you’ll see that little Randy is a serial offender :)

Days before the incident, at a routine meeting with district officials, principals had been reminded to report threats and assaults to the police. “There was some confusion as to what level of threat and assault we were talking about,” said Ken Blackstone, a school system spokesman.

Some officials and students said Potomac View administrators made an announcement that a new district policy required them to inform the police of student misbehavior. But Blackstone said there was no new policy. After the meeting, he said, principals were confused about when to call police. “As a result, there were too many calls that may not have been necessary because of people wanting to comply with the initial request.”

A confederacy of Dunces.

Buy Danish on April 4, 2008 at 2:30 PM

I want to point out that I’m fortunate to have been the student of many fine and noble teachers and attended a public high school. My HS math teachers, Mr. Parnes and Mrs. Adelman, could have taught math at the college level and expected excellence from their students. One of my science teachers (who I was fortunate to have had both in a parochial junior high and then later in high school) had done some pioneering work in isolating and identifying amino acids.

However, the fact that they were dedicated professionals doesn’t erase the fact that they were pretty well compensated. I may appreciate the fact that my 8th grade English teacher taught me how to write a three paragraph essay, and admire her ambition for going back to school for a law degree, but it doesn’t mean I have to admire the work she did representing my ex in our divorce.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:34 PM

I’d like to hear how conservatives are responsible for the Detroit public schools having a dropout rate over 50%.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM

If you have ever looked at how these numbers are calculated you would wonder how any school had less than a 50% dropout rate. Just so everyone is informed, the dropout rates do not reflect how many students do ro don’t graduate from high school. The dropout rates are calculated based on any student that ever attended the high school, and did they graduate within four years of starting school at that high school (this assumes a 4 year high school, if there are only 3 years at the high school then you would use 3 years). So any student that graduates a year late is considered a dropout, any student that transfers to another school, even if they graduate from the other school on time, is considered a dropout, all special ed students are considered dropouts as they don’t receive diplomas, any student that gets early admission to college is considered a dropout, any student that gets a GED before they were supposed to graduate and goes to technical school is considered a dropout. If your school is in a location with a high transitory population (most big cities), your graduation rate will most likely be counted as below 50% and there is nothing that can done about it because of the way the numbers are calculated. The method of counting dropout rates is seriously on of the most asinine they could come up with.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM

So why, in your view, is the dropout rate calculated in such a ludicrous way? It wouldn’t have anything to do with bureaucratic demands for ever-increasing public funding, would it?

Bugler on April 4, 2008 at 2:46 PM

I give up. I really should be focusing on work. Yes, teachers work only half a year. Yes, they leave promptly at 3:00. Yes, they have fancy cars and vacation homes. And they take secret brainwash your kids classes.

Why are you so threatened by a factual description of public school teachers’ salaries and working hours? The simple truth is that most public school teachers are well compensated in general and very well compensated on an hourly basis.

Are you saying that the AFT and NEA are completely disinterested in political indoctrination of school kids? Do you have any idea how much money the teachers’ unions spend on political contributions? I don’t want to hear a teacher whining about having to buy construction paper for her class, when her union is giving Democrats millions and millions of dollars. I know, small class sizes are all about quality education and have nothing at all to do with increasing the number of teachers’ union members, right?

Not half a year, more like 2/3. Do you know any public school teachers that don’t get a three month vacation in the summer, two weeks in December, and another two weeks in the spring?

I’m sorry if the truth is inconvenient, but I don’t know a single public school teacher who appears to be suffering financially. Most don’t bother finding summer jobs because they don’t need the money as much as they want the time off. I do know at least a couple of teachers who have given up teaching in parochial schools because the pay is so much better in the public school system.

I’m tired of teachers claiming that they are the only folks who bring work home at night. I’d be willing to bet that the average small business owner puts in a lot more hours than public school teachers. Unlike the teachers, if the business owner screws up, he’s out of business. If a teacher screws up, the union will do everything possible to keep an incompetent in the classroom.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:50 PM

This is all beyond what the word liberal used to mean. It is just plain ignorant stupidity.
Liberalism is just another word for cruelty, famine, racism, poverty, murder, theft, extortion, Have I left anything out? Liberalism, in the name of whatever, stoops down to a 6 year old’s innocence, grabs the child and shakes him, curses him, accuses him and labels him,, all in the name of what? Liberals see innocence as evil. Evil is good.
I would not be surprised if in another class down the hall, they want to teach 6 years old the benefits of masturbation and gay sex.
If they could,, what more would they do to this 6 year old?? In another five years, would they make the next 6 year old stand in the schoolyard and have the other children throw stones and insults at him as well? Liberals are everything and more what they accuse others of. The very essence of “destroying the city in order to save it.”
We are witnessing the very end of western civilization. Unless there is a mass rebirth of liberty, a mass revival in our churches,, we have at most 30 years left, if even that.
This teacher should be fired and never allowed to teach anywhere ever again.

JellyToast on April 4, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Buford,

You can make all the excuses you want for the failure of public schools. It’s not an excessive dropout rate, it’s just how the statistics are calculated.

Just so long as you don’t have to acknowledge that the Democrats and teachers’ unions who control public education have failed miserably.

I live in a suburb that has gone, in my lifetime, from having 80% of their high school students going on to college to having less than 50% graduate. When I challenged a teachers’ union member with that, her response was “the population of the district has changed”. I told her, “If I had used that as an excuse you would have called me a racist. Are you saying that it’s easier to teach Jewish kids than Chaldeans and blacks?”

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:55 PM

If you have ever looked at how these numbers are calculated you would wonder how any school had less than a 50% dropout rate. Just so everyone is informed, the dropout rates do not reflect how many students do ro don’t graduate from high school. The dropout rates are calculated based on any student that ever attended the high school, and did they graduate within four years of starting school at that high school (this assumes a 4 year high school, if there are only 3 years at the high school then you would use 3 years). So any student that graduates a year late is considered a dropout, any student that transfers to another school, even if they graduate from the other school on time, is considered a dropout, all special ed students are considered dropouts as they don’t receive diplomas, any student that gets early admission to college is considered a dropout, any student that gets a GED before they were supposed to graduate and goes to technical school is considered a dropout. If your school is in a location with a high transitory population (most big cities), your graduation rate will most likely be counted as below 50% and there is nothing that can done about it because of the way the numbers are calculated. The method of counting dropout rates is seriously on of the most asinine they could come up with.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM

The numbers were crunched for my town recently and all of those things were taken into account (including the moving in and out of military families) and we still have at least a 40% drop out rate from all of our government high schools.

And many, many of the kids who do graduate aren’t ready for either college or real life. The colleges around here have very high enrollment in “pre-100″ classes, teaching Freshmen the basics that they were supposed to have been learning for that previous 12 years.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 2:59 PM

aceinstall on April 4, 2008 at 2:21 PM

I’m very sorry.

4shoes on April 4, 2008 at 3:08 PM

All this is waiting for is a lawsuit. If parents were really upset about this they would’ve sued. Nothing this student has done (this is one example, remember, it may be different in different cases) connotates “sexual harassment” — severe, pervasive, etc. — but then again I’m not even sure if the same statutes apply to public schools, they must considering they are considered government workplaces…

Hum, I’m sure a lawyer could make quite a bit of money off this case…

Nonfactor on April 4, 2008 at 3:09 PM

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM

Sorry, but if your allegation is correct, wouldn’t the incomeing transfer students offset the outgoing transfer students?

Key here is that there is a specific goal to get kids to graduate High School on time… and they are NOT doing that with about 1/2 of their students… and 50% is a failing grade as I remember.

Romeo13 on April 4, 2008 at 3:32 PM

“I give up. I really should be focusing on work. Yes, teachers work only half a year. Yes, they leave promptly at 3:00. Yes, they have fancy cars and vacation homes. And they take secret brainwash your kids classes.

And I’m a commie.”

Accepting your problems is the first step to recovery. Congratulations.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Where the heck do teachers get paid $80K+???? Here in TX, $45K is doing pretty good for a teacher. Small towns pay more like $30K on average. And GOOD teachers certainly are spending a great deal of their own time grading papers, planning, etc. When I was a teacher, I taught the kids, fully engaged with them, from bell to bell. I didn’t have time to do any paperwork during the school day. I was a high school English teacher, so I assigned a lot of writing. Just one essay assignment would take me about 20 hours of my own time to grade. That’s about 10 minutes per paper, times about 130 students, which equals almost 22 hours outside of the school day! I don’t even want to talk about how much time a full-blown research paper assignment took away from my family. I earned my pittance, I can tell you. It was NOT enough money to keep me in the profession–I can definitely make more elsewhere, and get far more respect in society to boot. Teaching was dangerous and stressful and not well-appreciated, and, yes, underpaid for what I put into it. I also spent tons of my own money on classroom supplies. There are some good teachers and some good public schools out there. Give credit where it’s due, folks.

Those teachers who are babbling about vacation homes and driving really nice cars are married to well-paid spouses, I can guarantee you. I knew a few teachers who did very well because their income was pure gravy. They got to spend their entire incomes on fun stuff because their husbands’ salaries paid all the bills. But I knew far more teachers who were struggling badly to support their families on teachers’ salaries.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 3:42 PM

Yes, they leave promptly at 3:00.

Because, after all, members of the NEA and AFT are special and morally pure and don’t act like 99% of all employees who hit the door as soon as the quitting whistle blows.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 3:45 PM

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Heh.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 3:51 PM

aero on April 4, 2008 at 3:42 PM

Amen, brother. My wife is a teacher and I see first hand how much money she spends on her classroom. I also see how the old argument of only working for 9 months out of the year is completely false. Look at it this way, my wife teaches summer school, for one month. That leaves two months during the summer. But wait, in August, she starts back before the kids in the beginning of the month. So, that leaves one month, 4 weeks, of vacation time. How many here, blasting teachers get 4 weeks vacation? I’m sure there are more of you than there are that don’t.

Torch on April 4, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Last should read: I’m sure there are more of you that do get 4 weeks than there are that don’t. I really need to proof my stuff before I post. hehe

Torch on April 4, 2008 at 3:54 PM

Aero,

The $47K figure is the avg public school teacher’s salary according to the American Federation of Teachers, one of the two biggest teachers’ unions in the country. FWIW, their web site was whining that $47K wasn’t enough.

I’m trying to understand how a high school English teacher would have to spend “tons” on classroom supplies. What kinds of supplies does an English class need besides the textbook, looseleaf paper and a pencil?

If you want us to believe that you put in 60 hours a week on a regular basis, fine, but I’ll remain skeptical.

If my Lincoln and Caddy driving sister and brother in law are exceptions, anecdotal evidence, then the same can be said for your claims of having to spend 22 hours a week grading papers.

The fact is that a starting teacher in the NYC schools makes almost $40K a year and there are plenty of teachers getting the top rate of $81K (2004 figures). By any standard, that’s fine compensation for a job that requires a four year degree and no expertise in any particular discipline.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 3:55 PM

I think that if school choice is not going to happen, the best solution to the school problem is to pay schools by the graduate. Instead of paying schools for butts-in-chairs, pay them for the product we want–competent graduates. The schools would accelerate the smart ones and quit wasting their time. They’d have them out by the time they’re 16 at the latest, shortening the amount of time they’re taking up space in classrooms and making them into productive, tax-paying citizens that much more quickly. The schools would also be very incentivized to bring slow kids up to speed in order to get them ready to pass their exit exams so the school can get paid.

Just like in business, you should pay for the product rather than the hours if you want speed, efficiency, and quality.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Sorry, but if your allegation is correct, wouldn’t the incomeing transfer students offset the outgoing transfer students?

Key here is that there is a specific goal to get kids to graduate High School on time… and they are NOT doing that with about 1/2 of their students… and 50% is a failing grade as I remember.

Romeo13 on April 4, 2008 at 3:32 PM

It doesn’t work that way. Ten students could come and go in a single year, all of these students will count as drop outs, there won’t be 10 more students that stay that make up for them. If that were the case the school would drasticaly increase in size.

One example: Down the street from the school I worked in was an apartment complex. Every Christmas they would have a move in special with no rent paymetns for 3 months. Our school always had a huge influx of students from this, and they were gone in three months because their parents never intended to pay the rent in the first place. I am sure the high school down the street saw the same thing, so this is an increase of 30 – 40 students that got enrolled right before Christmas who were gone by the end of March. All of them counted against the dropout rate.

Special Ed is another sticking point. The county I live in hs an excelent program, so we have people moving into the county so their children can attend. So far everything is well and good. Now consider that every special ed student counts against the dropout rate because they do not graduate. In fact they are in special ed because they are not capable of completing a high school education. So because our school system does a good job of preparing these students for the real world, we get dinged because out dropout rate is lowered. Somehow that doesn’t seem right.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 3:55 PM

When I quit teaching several years ago, I was making $27,000 per year in a small Texas town. If I went back to teaching now in my Austin suburb, I would make about $40,000.

I bought used paperbacks for my students to read during downtime in the classroom. I bought art supplies for illustrations and such when assignments called for it. I bought printer ink and paper when the budget for those things ran out. I brought my own computer to school when the one supplied by the district broke and there wasn’t any money to replace it. I bought all kinds of things, big and small.

And, yes, I really did put in 60+ hours per week on a regular basis, as did most of my fellow English teachers. Teachers in other subjects often did go home on time each day and put in far less of their own time to keep up with the demands of the job.

NY clearly pays more than other states at its top tier. Probably a result of a much higher cost of living. You can still get a 3,000 sf house here for aroung $300K.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

Look at it this way, my wife teaches summer school, for one month. That leaves two months during the summer. But wait, in August, she starts back before the kids in the beginning of the month. So, that leaves one month, 4 weeks, of vacation time. How many here, blasting teachers get 4 weeks vacation? I’m sure there are more of you than there are that don’t.

Bullshit. To begin with, she’s getting paid extra for teaching summer school so don’t pretend she’s a slave. As for returning a month early before school starts, what is she doing for a month? Did the process of teaching change radically in the 12 months since the last opening day?

In the private sector, actually, 4 weeks of vacation is more than average. When I worked for someone else it took 15 years of seniority to have 4 weeks of paid vacation. Average vacation time in the US is about 13 days, significantly less than 4 weeks.

So here we have someone vested in the public school whining about his wife having to endure only 53% more vacation time than the average American. Just like they make more money than average and whine about how hard they have to work.

Also, you conveniently ignored Winter Break and Sprng Break vacations, which add up to another 4 weeks in many school districts.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM
So why, in your view, is the dropout rate calculated in such a ludicrous way? It wouldn’t have anything to do with bureaucratic demands for ever-increasing public funding, would it?

Bugler on April 4, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. That is exactly what I believe. It is an excuse for the administrators to spend even more money.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:05 PM

I think that if school choice is not going to happen, the best solution to the school problem is to pay schools by the graduate. Instead of paying schools for butts-in-chairs, pay them for the product we want–competent graduates.

How about running this by your wife’s former union rep? The teachers’ unions would never tolerate this kind of merit pay.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. That is exactly what I believe. It is an excuse for the administrators to spend even more money.

And since the teachers’ unions are the beneficiary of most of that money, we have a system whereby incompetency is rewarded. The fewer kids graduate, the more money they claim they need.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 4:09 PM

How times have changed, for the worse.

I remember when I was in high school in the 80′s that more than a few girls wore “Grab a Heiney” Heineken t-shirts to school which, everyone knew, girls included, was an invite to a pinched butt. A pinched butt never aroused any more than annoyance to the “victims” and only then if they didn’t like the pincher.
How did these stupid Liberals make it to adulthood?

DerKrieger on April 4, 2008 at 4:10 PM

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

Actually, where my wife teaches, they don’t get near that amount in Winter and Spring breaks. They get one day for Spring break and less than a week in Winter break. The students start back to school in early August, not September like you elude to (not sure where you’re at, but that’s bullshit there). Her month of summer school is factored in to her annual salary, so it’s not extra like you seem to think. If you think she makes above average pay, maybe you should look at the payscale in Missouri, it’s one of the lowest in the states.

I don’t know where you worked, that it took 15 years to get 4 weeks vacation, but where I work it’s quite a bit less, more like 2 to 4 years.

So what we have here, is someone who doesn’t know jack shit about what they’re talking about to someone who lives it.

Torch on April 4, 2008 at 4:16 PM

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 4:09 PM

Now, that is something I do agree with you on, rokemronnie! Many of the teachers I do know, who have tenure, can’t make in the private sector.

Torch on April 4, 2008 at 4:17 PM

I think that if school choice is not going to happen, the best solution to the school problem is to pay schools by the graduate.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 3:57 PM

I liked that idea when I first read it, but schools around here that are supposed to be being rated by how well their kids do on standardized tests simply spend all of their time teaching the kids how to pass the tests. And when not enough kids pass the tests, the legislature just lowers the standards.

In your scenario, they would simply focus on getting kids to graduation. The focus wouldn’t be on educating the child at all, just keeping them in school until they can hand them a diploma.

I bought used paperbacks for my students to read during downtime in the classroom. I bought art supplies for illustrations and such when assignments called for it. I bought printer ink and paper when the budget for those things ran out. I brought my own computer to school when the one supplied by the district broke and there wasn’t any money to replace it. I bought all kinds of things, big and small.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

That’s awesome, but did you complain to your union about having to buy those supplies? Did they look into where the thousands and thousands of dollars that went into you classroom was being spent? Last time I checked the national average for $’s spend per student was over $8,000. Did you ever look into where that money was going and why it didn’t make it to your classroom?

In a classroom of 25 kids that equals $200,000. Deduct your salary and that’s still over $170,000. Did you ever wonder why that money wasn’t getting to the kids?

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Buford,

You can make all the excuses you want for the failure of public schools. It’s not an excessive dropout rate, it’s just how the statistics are calculated.

Just so long as you don’t have to acknowledge that the Democrats and teachers’ unions who control public education have failed miserably.

I live in a suburb that has gone, in my lifetime, from having 80% of their high school students going on to college to having less than 50% graduate. When I challenged a teachers’ union member with that, her response was “the population of the district has changed”. I told her, “If I had used that as an excuse you would have called me a racist. Are you saying that it’s easier to teach Jewish kids than Chaldeans and blacks?”

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:55 PM

I am not making excuses, I am just pointing out that you shouldn’t believe the dropout rates, they are grossly out of whack in most cases. I took up teaching as a second career. I lasted 3 years and had to leave because I could not remain within a system that was so horribly broken. Unfortunately, from what I could see the system I was teaching for was one of the better ones around, and it was still so bad I couldn’t bring myself to continue to be part of it.

BTW, it isn’t just dropout rates that are calculated in a ridiculous manner. Pretty much all measures used for judging school performance have very little basis in reality. At times I tried to point this out to administration, but they were incapable of understanding what was wrong because they were products of the Schools of Education at various universities, whose programs are generally a complete waste of time. As part of continuing education I was sometimes required to read papers written by people that had PhD’s in Education. These were the most unscholarly, unscientific pieces of tripe I have ever read. Someone writing papers like this would never have qualified for a PhD in any other field of study (except maybe Women’s Studies or some other such liberal garbage).

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM

How times have changed, for the worse.
DerKrieger on April 4, 2008

My High School had a shooting range. I can remember school kids bringing rifles in after school for the hunters safety course that started after classes. Squirt guns were common. They were not allowed, and if you were found squirting someone they took the gun and broke it in front of you,, putting it on the floor and stepping on it. That was it. No big deal. Bring in another the next day.
Lots of guys had pocket knives. I always carried one in my painters pants. You know what though?? I cannot remember a single shooting,, anywhere,, in the whole United States.
We had the occasional fight. The teachers would discipline whoever started it. Today,, the only way you don’t get into trouble from a teacher is if the victim curls up in a fetal position on the floor and takes it.
Just a matter of time, though, until the libs rewrite history completely. They will repaint our past as one of chaos, famine and poverty.

JellyToast on April 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM

Special Ed is another sticking point. The county I live in hs an excelent program, so we have people moving into the county so their children can attend.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM

I hate it when people blame the retarded kids.

I used to teach developmentally disabled adults in a community college. Most of them had either a high school diploma or something else signifying that they had done their time, they were not just dropped out. They were, in fact, usually kept for an extra three years or so (which meant three years more money for them, plus anything extra the school was getting for the special ed program) and yet still lacked the life skills (reading, writing, math, money and computer skills) that I had been hired to help teach them.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 4:24 PM

yet another attack on the alpha male.

unseen on April 4, 2008 at 4:34 PM

Parents: 6-Year-Old Disciplined For Sexual Harassment
Boy Accused Of Offensive Remarks About Teacher

POSTED: 1:21 pm EDT April 3, 2008
Pinkney said he also spoke to the school guidance counselor who claims to have heard things much worse than his son’s alleged comments. He said the guidance counselor also questions why the parents were not notified earlier.

Pinkney said that he doesn’t understand why the teachers are making such a big deal.

He said, personally, he was more offended by a school art project his son brought home earlier this year.

Pinkney said Malory made a collage using pictures from magazines that were provided by the teacher. He said the pictures included one of a nude woman.

He said that his wife brought that collage to the principal and asked how it could have happened.

Pinkney said, “If we were humble enough to not make a big stink about that, I don’t understand why the school is reacting this way to the words of a child.”

http://www.wyff4.com/news/15783745/detail.html

There is a school in SC trying to do the same thing to a kid.
.
Gotta love public education

USBB on April 4, 2008 at 4:36 PM

29victor:

I didn’t belong to the union. Refused to join on principle. Complained to the admin with no results. The district’s money went to athletics and computer labs and administrators’ paychecks and worthless training programs. Everyone thinks English teachers don’t need much of a budget, so we got very little of the pie. Another reason I left the teaching profession after just three years. The job sucks.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 4:37 PM

aero on April 4, 2008 at 4:37 PM

I think a lot of us agree here, we’re just coming at it from different perspectives.

I have friends who are public school teachers, my pastor and his wife are both ex-public school teachers (they home school, heh). I believe that most teachers are good people who really want to help the kids.

But the system itself is broken. Good teachers either give up, resist and have a hard time of it, or get assimilated. Cities, states, counties and the federal government just dump more and more money into failed schools instead of fixing them. Anyone who tries to fix failed schools, change them at all, or even offer an alternative winds up being confronted by some of the most powerful organizations in the country. Organizations that no longer exist (if they ever did) to ensure that our kids get a good education. Organizations that now exist purely to sustain themselves and increase their power.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM

I hate it when people blame the retarded kids.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 4:24 PM

I don’t understand your point here. Special Ed students receive a Certificate of Attendence, not a high school diploma. They are not allowed to receive a diploma because they will not complete the requirements for a diploma. Since they didn’t graduate, they are counted as part of the drop out rate. The school system I worked for had an excellent program for these students. It was good enough that people moved to our county so that their children could attend the program. An unfortunate side effect fo this is that it does lower the graduation rate for the county because all of these students are counted as dropouts even when they receive their Certificate of Attendence.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM

My High School had a shooting range.

JellyToast on April 4, 2008 at 4:23 PM

Both high schools in my county have shooting ranges. Last year a student got a full ride scholarship to a Division I school for rifle team. Not all school systems have completly surrendered to the liberals.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 5:00 PM

So what we have here, is someone who doesn’t know jack shit about what they’re talking about to someone who lives it.

Let’s see. You cite your own experience. I quoted labor statistics and the teachers’ unions.

You can rely on your own anecdotal experience. The figures I found with an initial search are that Americans average between 10 and 13 vacation days a year – the lowest in the developed world, and that American public school teachers avg over $47,000 a year in salary. I worked for a Fortune 10 corporation and our vacation policies were benchmarked against other similarly sized companies. Most Americans get significantly less than 4 weeks of vacation.

The students start back to school in early August, not September like you elude to (not sure where you’re at, but that’s bullshit there).

No bullshit. Schools in Michigan still start after Labor Day. As a matter of fact, I believe that the state tourism industry lobbied Lansing to make it a law since starting school before Labor Day means fewer families will travel on the holiday.

Oh, and since we’re discussing education, that’s “allude”, not elude.

Her month of summer school is factored in to her annual salary, so it’s not extra like you seem to think.

Are you saying that she is paid the same as other teachers who do not teach summer school? Are you saying that because her summer pay is included in her annual salary that she’s not getting extra pay for that work, that’s it’s only “extra” if they cut a separate check? Maybe it’s better that you aren’t teaching impressionable minds if that’s your idea of logic.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 5:15 PM

I think a lot of us agree here, we’re just coming at it from different perspectives.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM

I think you’re right. I’m not defending public schools in general–I agree that the system is broken. I do assert that there are some good public schools, though (my kids are in one of them), and there are many good teachers who are not paid as well as some here seem to think–at least not based on the amount of blood, sweat, and tears I know some teachers really do put into their jobs. That’s all I’m trying to say. We as a society need to realize that, broken as the system is, it’s what we have at the moment, and we need to do what we can to improve it within the boundaries currently set by the government. We lose most of our best teachers within 3 years after they begin teaching. We have some good ones who stay, but too many bad ones who just phone it in. All the breakdowns of vacation time and per-hour compensation being comparable aside, my experience has been that I can make far, far more in the private sector with far less stress and danger than I could in the classroom. Period. Even though I enjoyed the kids very much, it would take a LOT to get me back in a classroom. I can’t imagine what could possibly entice me to return to teaching at this point.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Since they didn’t graduate, they are counted as part of the drop out rate.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM

I would like to see the study that your are citing. You’ve posted a lot of facts about it, but haven’t said where you are getting those facts yet.

As I stated above, the study that I saw for the schools in my town took several factors into account and didn’t just go “by the numbers”. The local school districts tried to say it did, but the study authors disagreed.

I can’t find a link to the actual study (sorry) by Robery Balfanz of Johns Hopkins that was quoted over and over again in national and local media, but I can provide an article from a group he works with, The Alliance for Excellent Education, which shows that, if anything, current methods are underestimating the amount of high school dropouts, not overestimating them.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM

We as a society need to realize that, broken as the system is, it’s what we have at the moment, and we need to do what we can to improve it within the boundaries currently set by the government.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM

I think that this is where we disagree:
1) I don’t believe that “it’s what we have at the moment.” At least, if that means that it’s our only alternative. I home school :).

2) I don’t believe that it can be fixed or even improved very much, at least not without school vouchers or some other form of competition. The public schools have a monopoly and no monopoly will improve itself unless forced to. Look at what happened when Bush tried to “improve” Social Security. His own party bailed on him. And the AARP is nothing compared to the NEA.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Oh, and that $47K average salary for teachers is actually skewed down by the fact that 40% of teachers leave the profession within 5 years. With that high a turnover rate, a large percentage of teachers will be recent hires at the lower end of their districts’ pay scales.

I can’t find the article at the National Review, but it compared teachers’ pay with those of other, similarly skilled, professions based on hours worked. For the purpose of the study, the survey included hours worked outside of school, and teachers were still at the high end of compensation.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 5:31 PM

It’s immoral and oppressive to force people to fund public schools they cannot use. There are many school districts around the country that are so heinous that no one who can afford to would even think of sending their kids to those hell holes, INCLUDING the teachers who work there.

The right way to do things is to open up the entire system to competition and let the money follow the child.

I have zero sympathy for public school teachers who belong to teacher’s unions. They are part of the problem.

NoDonkey on April 4, 2008 at 5:33 PM

I have many friends and acquaintances who teach in private religious schools. They make a fraction of what public school teachers make. One took a job teaching special ed in the Detroit schools and it dramatically improved his family’s standard of living.

Yet I’ve never heard a yeshiva or day school teacher complain about their salary the way that public school teachers whine about being poorly paid.

Teachers are a lot like cops. They hate being reminded that they work for the public and they love complaining about their jobs. Meanwhile they have insurance and pension benefits virtually unmatched in the private sector while we’re suppose to genuflect before their moral superiority.

The system needs some competition. If education is going to be publicly funded, give vouchers to parents and let the market determine which schools are successful and which aren’t.

Oh, and they really do blame it on the “retards”. My ex father in law is a retired school superintendent. Whenever I’d point out that parochial schools do a much better job producing educated students on much less money than the public schools he would insist that the public schools have to take everyone while the parochial schools are selective and he’d specifically cite Special Ed. Considering that parochial schools exist for religious reasons, most religiously affiliated private schools are rather reluctant to turn away potential students. All the Jewish schools here have special ed kids.

Funny thing is that while they complain that Special Ed kids are a burden, administrators and teachers love getting kids labeled as ADD, ADHD, or something on the autism scale because it usually means more money for the school.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 5:44 PM

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 5:15 PM

You can cite teachers unions and all the statistics you want, I will cite my own experience. I don’t believe all the stats that are out there. They can be manipulated to suit the needs of the organization that wants it.

That annual salary includes all the states of the union. How about just doing the salary of the state of Missouri? Take a look at the average for just one state and then look at the difference between rural and urban schools. My wife makes quite a bit less than the national average, just as many teachers do.

The school that my wife teaches at starts before Labor day, around the second week in August. Other schools start much later.

You know, there are many times where someone uses the wrong word when posting on a blog. Then you have an asshole that must correct the poster, even though they know what the poster meant, because they want others to see how educated they are. All it shows is how much of an ass they are. Just MHO.

No, I’m not using the logic of extra only if a second check is cut. I’ll drop this argument though, because it is extra even if through her salary. We don’t see this money since she uses it to get supplies for the year, the school district gives her $200.00 per year for supplies, when she spends much more (about 2k a year).

Torch on April 4, 2008 at 5:57 PM

I want to point out that I’m fortunate to have been the student of many fine and noble teachers and attended a public high school. My HS math teachers, Mr. Parnes and Mrs. Adelman, could have taught math at the college level and expected excellence from their students. One of my science teachers (who I was fortunate to have had both in a parochial junior high and then later in high school) had done some pioneering work in isolating and identifying amino acids.

However, the fact that they were dedicated professionals doesn’t erase the fact that they were pretty well compensated. I may appreciate the fact that my 8th grade English teacher taught me how to write a three paragraph essay, and admire her ambition for going back to school for a law degree, but it doesn’t mean I have to admire the work she did representing my ex in our divorce.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 2:34 PM

Comment of the day right there.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 4, 2008 at 6:07 PM

I think we all come from different experiences and our opinions are formed by those experiences, and it sounds like those experiences vary a lot depending upon which state we live in.

I live in a state that spends in excess of $10,000/yr per student and has had to remove some graduation requirements because too many students were failed to meet them.

Every government high school in my city has at least a 40% drop out rate (and, yes, that is adjusted and corrected for transient students, etc.).

It is difficult to have substantive conversations about history, politics, literature or science with most high school graduates that I know because they either know very little about those things or believe things about them which are not true.

The same study that blasted the high schools in my town found absolutely no “drop out factories” in the state of Utah. Someone living in Utah will have totally different experiences with their public schools.

I have no idea what schools are like in Missouri or how much the spend per kid, but Missouri is a rather poor state so I assume it wouldn’t be as much as they spend here.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Oh, and I don’t care who you are or where you’re from, the NEA is evil and should be done away with.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 6:14 PM

29Victor:

Most people can’t homeschool, either because of the parents’ work hours or because they lack the knowledge and skills necessary. I could do it, and I’m prepared to if I ever become dissatisfied with the public school we’ve chosen, but I remain concerned about education at large because I recognize that the success of our society depends on the relative effectiveness of our education. I want school choice and do what I can to try to make it happen. I just don’t think we’ll get it anytime soon. In the meantime, I do what I can to work with the system we have.

aero on April 4, 2008 at 6:15 PM

aero on April 4, 2008 at 6:15 PM

Most people think they can’t homeschool. Most people have been conditioned to believe that they lack the necessary skills to homeschool. In fact, many, many homeschool parents that I know thought that they couldn’t homeschool until they tried.

As for the work hours, I realize that for some people it would be impossible, but for many it’s just a matter of priorities. Which is more important, that second paycheck or the moral and intellectual education of their child?

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 6:24 PM

You know, there are many times where someone uses the wrong word when posting on a blog. Then you have an asshole that must correct the poster, even though they know what the poster meant, because they want others to see how educated they are. All it shows is how much of an ass they are. Just MHO.

Normally correcting spelling mistakes is picayune and petty. In this case, however, since we’re discussing education, since you’re a product of public schools, and since the difference between allude and elude is so glaring, it seemed germane. Now I have to figure out how correcting someone’s English is worse than calling them an asshole. I may be arrogant and pretentious but I don’t think I’ve called anyone any names here – well, at least today.

We don’t see this money since she uses it to get supplies for the year, the school district gives her $200.00 per year for supplies, when she spends much more (about 2k a year).

You see the money. You just choose to spend it on supplies that I doubt are absolutely necessary. If your wife is the creative and outstanding teacher that you believe her to be, I’m sure she can figure out how to teach kids without spending all that money.

I do machine embroidery. I’m sure that I could rationalize spending a few thousand dollars on a new computer and the latest greatest embroidery software. I’m also quite sure that what I already have meets almost 100% of my and my customers’ needs.

My junior high school classmates ended up with SAT scores of 1200+, took honors English classes in high school, and attended elite colleges like Columbia and the Univ of Mich, so I think they must have learned some English in junior high. None of our teachers spent money on supplies. We had textbooks and looseleaf paper. A good teacher doesn’t need any more than that. What else does an English teacher need? For supplemental readings there are public libraries.

Believe it or not, there were actually functioning schools before there were computer printers or even paperback books. School isn’t magic and it isn’t rocket science. You need a motivated and competent teacher, capable students, and parents who insist that their kids perform to their abilities. Everything else is fluff.

If it was up to me we’d eliminate every Ed school in the country. Insist that teachers get a degree in the field they are teaching and then follow it up with a 6 month course on the mechanics of teaching. I’d much rather have my kid learn history from a history major than from someone who majored in education. It’s the Ed schools that promote the most faddish ideas and all the classroom toys that hinder rather than facilitate education.

My younger daughter was getting confused by the “manipulatives” used by her teacher in her early algebra class. Finally I put them aside, got a sheet of paper and wrote a simple equation. Then I showed her how if you do the same operation to both sides of the equation, it’s still equal and in a couple of hours taught her the basics. The next day she told me that her teacher said that while it wasn’t the way they were learning it, as long as she got the correct answers it was okay. Imagine that, my daughter had to get her teacher’s approval to do algebra in a math class.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM

The main problem with American six-year-olds is that there are comparatively few of them. Nor does it seem that boys made anxious and timid toward girls are likely to grow up to produce many six-year-olds of their own.

Yet it scarcely seems any headway can be made against fools in high places as long as they’re allowed to take refuge in anonymity, hiding behind their institutions and spokesmen. In fact, public outrage over incidents such as this seems false or lazy, so long as no one can manage to produce even the names of the fools at issue, let alone produce their vile bodies for public caning.

Kralizec on April 4, 2008 at 6:49 PM

Comment of the day right there.

- The Cat

My attorney couldn’t understand why the other attorney kept going out of her way to skewer and upset me, considering I was consciously caving on the financial settlement. I told him it was her way of getting back at me for being a class clown. One time he literally threw his hands up and said, “She’s the worst!”. My ex would agree to stuff and her lawyer would step in and veto it. Her office once called me to come over and pick up some papers – then made me wait 20 minutes while they made the copies after I got there.

Nobody is as petty as a junior high teacher with a grudge.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 6:53 PM

Just watch – the lefties will soon use PC idiocy as a point of proof and we’ll hear them crying at the top of their lungs to hand out condoms to these kids.

Ryan Gandy on April 4, 2008 at 6:57 PM

It is difficult to have substantive conversations about history, politics, literature or science with most high school graduates that I know because they either know very little about those things or believe things about them which are not true.

The same might be said for many of their teachers as well. The textbooks are filled with PC dreck and the Ed schools don’t think that competence in a discipline is important.

You mentioned history. Try to discuss history with someone who responds to historical facts with, “Well that’s your opinion.”

Not only don’t they know many facts, they’ve been taught that facts aren’t important.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 7:00 PM

OK, I see we’re into the “good teacher” stories…I guess to illustrate what could be done if we get rid of the unions and the bureaucrats. So here’s mine:

I was lucky enough to get into an “advanced math” class in high school the first time they offered it. The teacher was an odd duck who had previously held many other serious and frivolous jobs prior to teaching (in one of the less serious, he worked as a juggler). This guy knew his math and had the ability to hold all of us spellbound while learning it!! In one high school semester, he introduced us Calculus and also to every single higher math topic I subsequently encountered in college while pursuing an Electrical Engineering degree (involving about 30 hours of math beyond Calculus). I kept the book and all my notes from his class all through college.

So what did the system do to him?? Shut down the advanced math and made him a counselor the next semester! Monumental stupidity!!! What a colossal waste of talent!!!

landlines on April 4, 2008 at 7:45 PM

As long as there are teachers unions, schools will be invested in failure. From TeachersUnionFacts.com“…In 2002 philanthropist Robert Thompson offered the city of Detroit $200 million to establish 15 charter schools…. But on September 25 of that year, the Detroit Federation of Teachers led a one-day walkout that shut down the city’s schools in protest of Thompson’s offer. The deal collapsed immediately thereafter.

Want to know what % of your state’s teachers are unionized, what their firing rate of tenured teachers is and lots more? Go there and click on your state (left column). It’s a great resource.

NightmareOnKStreet on April 4, 2008 at 7:48 PM

At lunch:

Supervisor: The new sexual harassment policy from coporate is pretty strict.

Female coworker: That’s not good, I talk about boobs all the time.

Male coworker: We should talk more often.

Supervisor: Oh no (head in hands)

true story

heh

Seriously though, this zero tolerance crap is getting scary.

aikidoka on April 4, 2008 at 8:05 PM

Those figures include 22 first-graders, 16 kindergartners, and three pre-schoolers

I think one of those preschoolers might be the 3 year old boy who ripped off another boy’s penis on the first day of school. So, there’s at least one that deserved some action (and therapy).

tikvah on April 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM

…3 year old boy who ripped off another boy’s penis on the first day of school…
tikvah on April 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM

tikvah- that really happened? is the victim ok/alive? how horrible!

NightmareOnKStreet on April 4, 2008 at 8:23 PM

I would like to see the study that your are citing. You’ve posted a lot of facts about it, but haven’t said where you are getting those facts yet.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM

I’m not citing a study. When I was teaching school the Assistant Superintendent walked us through how the Federal Government was arriving at the numbers used to judge our school system. This was done so that we could look at what part of the figures we could actually do something about and what things we had no control over. It was very obvious that we could only affect the dropout rate as calculated by only a percentage point or two. This had to be done as under No Child Left Behind the school system gets to pick what criteria is used to be graded on performance. (Sounds like garbage, but then NCLB is pretty much garbage anyway, and a huge infringement on state’s rights.) We wanted to be sure we picked criteria we could actually have some effect on, and it was readily apparent that we had no control over the dropout rate as the Federal Government calculates it.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 8:25 PM

We don’t see this money since she uses it to get supplies for the year, the school district gives her $200.00 per year for supplies, when she spends much more (about 2k a year).

You see the money. You just choose to spend it on supplies that I doubt are absolutely necessary. If your wife is the creative and outstanding teacher that you believe her to be, I’m sure she can figure out how to teach kids without spending all that money.

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM

In this you are wrong. When I went from private industry to teaching I was appalled to find out that teachers were expected to buy their own basic classroom supplies. Supplies that were pretty much necessary for the job. Basic things like chalk/white board markers. If you go into a classroom it is a good bet that everything in that classroom with the exception of text books and furniture has been paid for by the teacher.

Having said that, teachers by and large are well compensated for the work they do. I knew of teachers that were making $120k per year. Of course you had to put in over 30 years and have a PhD to get that, but it was certainly doable.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 8:38 PM

tikvah- that really happened? is the victim ok/alive? how horrible!

NightmareOnKStreet on April 4, 2008 at 8:23 PM

Yeah, it did :-(. I think the story was kept quiet in Baltimore (not in the news), but my boss at the time was a psychiatrist and worked at the facility where he was sent for counseling. I don’t have an update on the victim, but I think they were able to reattach it.

For a lot of these zero tolerance cases, like the butt slapping, it’s obviously taken to the ridiculous, but I wonder how many of these may have been victims of sexual abuse (like in the case I mentioned) acting things out on other children. They’re not doing it maliciously/intentionally, but the schools still need to protect the other kids, and I think that future teachers/schools need to be aware that this has been an issue in the past.

tikvah on April 4, 2008 at 8:40 PM

Gosh, I kissed Rosemary on the cheek in the clokeroom when we were in the first grade in MD. That was in 1947. Didn’t know I was a sex offender all these years. Better fess up and get registered.

wepeople on April 4, 2008 at 9:44 PM

I was engaged to be married to a girl when I was in kindergarten. We did all the things engaged couples usually do together: go play four-square, hop-scotch, tag, and swings. Looking back, maybe I sexually harrassed her when I tagged her. Now that we are grown up (and she married my best friend), maybe I should go and apologize for my harrassment.

p40tiger on April 4, 2008 at 10:17 PM

NightmareOnKStreet on April 4, 2008 at 7:48 PM

Thanks for the link.

My state (Washington) is 100% unionized. I figured as much.

So, aero, here you wouldn’t have had a choice but to join the union. Yuck.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 11:54 PM

rokemronnie on April 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM

Normally correcting spelling mistakes is picayune and petty. In this case, however, since we’re discussing education, since you’re a product of public schools, and since the difference between allude and elude is so glaring, it seemed germane.

I believe it’s spelled “German.” (I kid).

My younger daughter was getting confused by the “manipulatives” used by her teacher in her early algebra class. Finally I put them aside, got a sheet of paper and wrote a simple equation. Then I showed her how if you do the same operation to both sides of the equation, it’s still equal and in a couple of hours taught her the basics. The next day she told me that her teacher said that while it wasn’t the way they were learning it, as long as she got the correct answers it was okay. Imagine that, my daughter had to get her teacher’s approval to do algebra in a math class.

One of the other problems that I have with public schools. The kids are expected to learn a certain way, if they don’t happen to be the kinds of kids who learn that way then they are out of luck.

Since teachers have so many students and are expected to control/teach them all together there is probably little they can do about that. Nevertheless, I know plenty of really smart kids who believe that they’re dumb just because they don’t learn the way that they are expected to.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 11:58 PM

I’m not citing a study. When I was teaching school the Assistant Superintendent walked us through how the Federal Government was arriving at the numbers used to judge our school system.

Buford on April 4, 2008 at 8:25 PM

Oh, well then… So you’re citing a school superintendent for facts on why there were so many dropouts in one of his schools…. uh….hmmmmm…..

You realize that you’re telling this to a guy that has heard school admins give every excuse in the book and blame everything from developmentally disabled kids to class size to George Bush to explain why their schools are failing.

Nevertheless, you know the guy way better than I do so I’m going to trust your judgment on this one.

But, like I said before, you’re talking about your experience in your district and the underlying circumstances there and I’m talking about the circumstances in my area. So… we’re going to have different reasons for the dropout rates.

And, like I said before, the study that I was citing wasn’t a federal study, it was done for the Department of Education, but it was done by John Hopkins University and they (according to them) took great pains to factor in the kinds of things that you have been pointing out. Our district super tried to say that the results weren’t valid, but no one believed her (I think it’s a her) this time.

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 12:15 AM

Torch, I haven’t read the whole thread, but it looks like you left off something in your list. Teachers in many states are also required to take continuing education classes, which they usually do during their “vacation”. And guess who pays the tuition for those classes?

taznar on April 5, 2008 at 12:33 AM

If anyone is still wondering why I homeschool (at least one big reason of many); this is my school district.

My state’s public school teachers are 100% unionized and 97.6% of union money went to Democrats.

If this kind of low performance, fiscal waste and kickbacks were discovered going on in a publicly held company, there would be mass fireings and possibly jail time. But here, in my state, everyone knows exactly what’s going on and no one cares. And as long as the government schools keep babysitting our kids for 6 hours a day so that we can persue other interests, no one is going to do a thing about it.

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 2:27 AM

Sorry: This is my school district.

The above link pointed to just a subset of the problems.

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 2:29 AM

Ed,

Woodbridge, Virginia.

Robert

NaCly dog on April 5, 2008 at 5:06 AM

After the meeting, he said, principals were confused about when to call police.

Acts 19:32 – Some therefore cried one thing and some another, for the assembly was confused, and most of them did not know why they had come together.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

Who says the Bible isnt relevant today?

In all seriousness, until WE start electing school boards who’ll hold these nitwits accountable, this will continue, it will get worse. Schools look like and are run like prisons now. “Resource Officer?” Phooey – armed police guard. The fact that the elected school boards are silent in all this says a lot.

A 7 year old “serial offender” should have HIS butt swatted and his parents called. You dont haul a 7 year old off to jail and ruin him for his school life. Wonder how the cop felt in all this?

abcurtis on April 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM

Not half a year, more like 2/3. Do you know any public school teachers that don’t get a three month vacation in the summer, two weeks in December, and another two weeks in the spring?

Something I’ve wondered all my life – do teachers get paid for those three months they are off? If anybody can enlighten me, please do.

abcurtis on April 5, 2008 at 8:17 AM

So, aero, here you wouldn’t have had a choice but to join the union. Yuck.

29Victor on April 4, 2008 at 11:54 PM

That should be against the law. People should not be REQUIRED to join a union in order to have the ability to pursue their profession. I don’t think I would have lasted even the three years I did as a teacher if I had been forced to join a union. As it was, I was already pretty much a lone conservative voice in the wilderness.

aero on April 5, 2008 at 9:48 AM

Something I’ve wondered all my life – do teachers get paid for those three months they are off? If anybody can enlighten me, please do.

abcurtis on April 5, 2008 at 8:17 AM

Technically, teachers get paid for the days they actually work. But (at least in Texas) their annual salaries are calculated and their checks are spread out over 12 months as a courtesy. So they get checks all year round, but they are technically only being paid for Aug-May.

aero on April 5, 2008 at 9:56 AM

All this is waiting for is a lawsuit

That is the whole underlying reason for zero tolerance policies. When the teacher takes 6-year-old Timmy aside to explain that it isn’t nice to slap Mary on the bum and please don’t do it again, that’s exercising judgement. When you expel 13-year-old Alex for repeartedly groping his female classmates, that’s favoritism because you didn’t expel Timmy. Or worse, it could be ‘racism’. It’s easier to have “no tolerance” and avoid lawyers altogether. Eliminate the lawyers or make plaintiffs pay when losing frivolous lawsuits and much of the ZT need goes away.

GeneSmith on April 5, 2008 at 11:23 AM

That should be against the law. People should not be REQUIRED to join a union in order to have the ability to pursue their profession.

aero on April 5, 2008 at 9:48 AM

Yes, it should be. But I live in Washington State. Have you heard about Washington State? Did you read about our last governortorial election?

Here’s the lowdown:

The Democrat lost (gasp).

So she called for a recount of certain (liberal counties), which she had to pay for. She lost again.

(Somewhere in here the head of the King County Chairman of the Dem Party found some “lost ballots”)

So she called for another recount of those same counties, which she had to pay for. She lost yet again.

So she called for a machine recount of those counties and election officials were allowed to “interpret voter intent” in this one. She one this one and was proclaimed to be governor.

The third recount (the one she finally won) was underwritten by the state worker’s union.

But the excitement doesn’t end there…

Washington State is the home of a particularly stupid law that allows the governor to negotiate and approve the state worker’s contract. Just the governor. On her own. You know, the one who is in office because of the state worker’s union.

So she negotiated a contract that stipulated that every state worker in Washington has to belong to the union. Pretty neat how that worked out huh? Pretty neat, of course, except for those state workers who were fired for refusing to join the union.

Governor Gregoire, owned lock, stock and barrel by the state worker’s union.

I had to hear about this union fiasco on Fox News because my local media didn’t report on it at all(at least not that I saw).

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 1:28 PM

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 1:28 PM

Ouch. I am so sorry–that really stinks. I guess I have grown complacent living in a predominantly red state. We have our problems, but at least there are mostly conservatives in charge (for now), and no overt corruption. One can certainly do worse than Texas. And based on our growth rate (four of the top ten fastest growing cities in the nation are in Texas), everyone else is starting to figure that out, too. The influx of fleeing Californians alone might ruin us. ;-)

aero on April 5, 2008 at 1:36 PM

Where are these school disctricts where teachers get three months off in the summer? My sister, a teacher, only gets around 6 weeks. She teaches in Florida, in a very poor part of Tallahassee. Making less than $30k per year. They get to school before the children in order to prepare curriculum for the coming year. She keeps a small refrigerator in her classroom with food in it because the parents of her students often send the kids to school with nothing to eat (and never signed them up for the free lunch program–also fail to get them to school on time for the free breakfast) and yes, very often buys supplies for her own classroom.
I know that many many professions require work to be brought home and teachers aren’t exempt from that.

I’m just surprised that people are assuming that all this “vacation” time exists. Even my daughter, a student, gets out June 6 this year and returns the first week of August. She’ll have 1 and 1/2 weeks at Christmas. The teachers have less. We’re in SC and believe me, the salaries are nothing to write home about.

As to the original issue of the post, I do think teachers and Administrators who use this “Zero-Tolerance” policy in this way are idiots. Common sense has gone out the windows of the public schools when it comes to these sexual harrassment charges.

serpentineshel on April 5, 2008 at 2:01 PM

The influx of fleeing Californians alone might ruin us. ;-)

aero on April 5, 2008 at 1:36 PM

It’s no joke. That is, in large part, what did it here.

They ruined their own cities and then moved up here and ruined ours.

29Victor on April 5, 2008 at 2:25 PM

People act as if I’m intellectually stunted when I tell them that South Park is favorite TV show, and that I find it brilliant.

In point of fact, it IS a brilliant , insightful show… and while I may be emotionally stunted, my intellect is adequate (more or less).

Alalazoo on April 5, 2008 at 2:37 PM

If you guys want to know how much teachers are paid then read this report. It will open your eye to the lie that teachers are not paid enough, and work long hours.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_50.htm

riggermarander on April 7, 2008 at 9:35 AM

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