Pizza Hut: No work for those who defend themselves?

posted at 11:55 am on April 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

A Pizza Hut deliverer fired shots at an armed robber who threatened his life, wounding him and leading to the criminal’s capture by police. What kind of reward did James Spiers get for his self-defense? Unemployment:

A Des Moines pizza driver who was suspended from his job after he shot an armed robber said today he has been overwhelmed by support from people who cheered what happened.

“But no one had contacted me directly about a job offer,” said James William Spiers III, 38, who was sent home by Pizza Hut managers after he fired multiple shots at a man who put a gun to his head Thursday and demanded money …

Spiers, who has a valid handgun permit, said he’s been “pretty much in the dark” about his job since the incident. Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut’s corporate offices in Dallas, said last week that employees are not allowed to carry guns “because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

“I just know that, given what happened, it’s not likely I’ll have a job anyway,” Spiers said. “Right now, I’m just taking some time off, trying to cool things down.”

Pizza Hut has every right to set its employment conditions. If they think that their corporate image is better served by having their deliverers die on doorsteps around this nation than to have the ability to defend themselves, that’s entirely their decision. People can choose to work for a company that routinely puts them in harms’ way while insisting that they remain defenseless even though legal recourses for their self-defense exist. And they can fire a man who saved his own life and perhaps those of other deliverers by ending the career of a would-be robber and potential murderer.

That’s Pizza Hut’s prerogative. Of course, Pizza Hut’s customers and employees have choices in the matter as well. The deliverers can find work elsewhere for an employer who doesn’t require martyrdom over a ten-dollar delivery. Their customers can opt out by purchasing their pizza elsewhere, from pizza shops that understand that deliverers have the right to defend themselves.

Here’s one story that ended with two dead deliverers. Here’s another from earlier this year. Pittsburgh had one two years ago that remains unsolved. Badger Blogger reports on one from December in Wisconsin, where earlier another deliveryman wound up prosecuted for defending himself. A Chicago woman got murdered in 2006 while delivering pizza. Almost three months ago, another pizza-delivery murder occurred in South Carolina. A Google search turns up 574,000 hits for pizza delivery murder.

Which is more unreasonable: Spiers’ concern for his safety, or Pizza Hut’s lack of concern for it? Make your choice and let Pizza Hut know your decision. Call 1-800-948-8488 to offer your opinion on Spiers’ employment situation.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

That’s Pizza Hut’s prerogative.

And mine is to never again by from Pizza Hut.

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 11:58 AM

It might even be worth it if the pizza was good, which Pizza Hut resoundingly isn’t.

Blacklake on April 2, 2008 at 11:59 AM

A Google search turns up 574,000 hits for pizza delivery murder.

That’s not a fair or realistic estimation of how often it happens. It diminishes the rest of your point, IMHO.

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Well, I suppose if you’re planning to rob a pizza delivery guy, you know which pizza place to call to make sure it’s easiest for you.

trubble on April 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Pizza Hut’s parent company, Yum Brands, also owns Taco Bell, Long John Silver’s, Kentucky Fried (Grilled or whatever) Chicken and A&W Restaurants, so I would assume this is an across-the-board rule for all their stores.

A large-scale boycott might not change policy, but would probably significantly lower protesters’ cholesterol levels.

jon1979 on April 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Never PizzaHut, ever, never again. And for that matter, I’ll throw the entire YUM brand into that, KFC and Taco Bell, A&W too.

JamesLee on April 2, 2008 at 12:06 PM

It might even be worth it if the pizza was good, which Pizza Hut resoundingly isn’t.

Ha. No joke. Last time I had pizza there, it was awful.

I’m already ‘boycotting’ by purchasing better pizza.

Slublog on April 2, 2008 at 12:07 PM

trubble on April 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Bingo, with this sort of press it is only a matter of time. I’m not buying any of the parent comapny’s product any more.

bbz123 on April 2, 2008 at 12:07 PM

employees are not allowed to carry guns “because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

…except the delivery guy. Another boycott added to my extensive list.

Buttercup on April 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM

And mine is to never again by from Pizza Hut.

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Why would anyone opt to eat that crap anyway?

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Quite right. There is no way of filtering out all the multiple hits on identical stories, or false positives. A simple “Google turns up x hits” is a piss-poor measure of anything.

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM

I order from Papa Johns, but never delivery anyway. PS, the BBQ Bacon Chicken pizza (with no onions) is the greatest pizza of all time.

AbaddonsReign on April 2, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Yum Foods is also a spin-off and subsidiary of PepsiCo, Inc.

ConBlog_NH on April 2, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:02 PM

On the plus side, Pizza Hut is ranking #1 for the adwords ad for “pizza delivery murder” – clearly its a market they are looking to tap into.

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Pizza Hut’s parent company, Yum Brands, also owns Taco Bell, Long John Silver’s, Kentucky Fried (Grilled or whatever) Chicken and A&W Restaurants, so I would assume this is an across-the-board rule for all their stores

Those others don’t have delivery guys…but if they did, they’d be defenseless.

Buttercup on April 2, 2008 at 12:11 PM

except the delivery guy.

Buttercup on April 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Yeah, the only one left “safer” is the armed robber.

Why would anyone opt to eat that crap anyway?

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Personally, it was the only place I could find in a small town on my road trip last month. I usually stick to Hungry Howie’s or my locally-owned pizzeria.

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM

I grew up near a real Italian family that had a humble cafe/pizzeria. You could fit maybe 10 people in at a time. It was phenomenal – all hand made with passion. Their quattro stagioni was a truly religious experience.

After that, all chain pizza/frozen pizza tastes like cardboard covered in rubber & tomato shite.

I make my own.

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM

It’s safe to say that we won’t see a commercial where Pizza hut “blows away the competition” any time soon, right? Ha!

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:13 PM

You’d think a company based in Dallas, TX would take a different stance on this issue. It’s not about protecting the delivery drivers from harm, but to protect themselves from libel lawsuits.

Zaire67 on April 2, 2008 at 12:13 PM

According to Wikipedia, Yum also owns: Angelina’s (Baltimore, Maryland) and WingStreet ((United States).

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Ed, I think he is suspended right? not fired?. Here in MN, as you may know, we have a PPP(Personal Protection Permit) law. I have one and do, from time to time, carry. My former employer knew this and asked that I not carry on premises or during the course of my duties on the job. This is his right. So, hope our friend who was suspended gets his job back or another one and is not charged. But, you can’t go after the company for going nuts. Can’t believe I just typed this!

MNDavenotPC on April 2, 2008 at 12:14 PM

I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Is your subjective ‘feeling’ really worth a human life?

If the possibility of encountering an armed individual fills you with such dread, you can always retreat into the corner and cower – like a mouse.

Or you could grow a metaphorical pair, and stop insisting others are rendered as impotent as you.

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Not only that, but Pizza Hut must have the fattiest and least healthy pizza. Their slices are like little grease bombs. Please eat at pretty much any other pizzeria. Thank you.

indythinker on April 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

So…they shouldn’t carry guns because they’re pizza delivery drivers and seem unsavory? You got all that from two minutes at your door…impressive.

ConBlog_NH on April 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Personally, it was the only place I could find in a small town on my road trip last month

Hey, I understand that. In extremis I’ll eat anywhere too ;)

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion

Die on your knees, slave.

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Their customers can opt out by purchasing their pizza elsewhere, from pizza shops that understand that deliverers have the right to defend themselves…Make your choice and let Pizza Hut know your decision.

This is a tough one. I mean, come on – all you can eat lunchtime pizza buffets! I don’t know if I can do it Ed!

Jimmy the Dhimmi on April 2, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Die on your knees, slave.

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:16 PM

I’ve had drivers delivering pizza to my door who were obviously stoned (personality and odor) – I’m not sure I want them packing heat, really.

If Pizza Hut can’t screen for obvious drug use; what can it screen for?

lorien1973 on April 2, 2008 at 12:17 PM

But, you can’t go after the company for going nuts

Sure we can. They’re assholes. I’ll also defend their right to be assholes. But assholishness is still their defining feature ;)

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Damn, guess I won’t be getting pizza hut anymore. =/

bj1126 on April 2, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

So it’s better to find a Pizza Hut delivery man with a bullet hole in his head on your doorstep? That’d make people feel “safer”.

If we’re going to access to rights solely on what makes strangers feel safer, when there’s no reason to believe you’d hurt anyone, we may as well just give up now. If moonbats claim the guy down the street having a gun in his house makes them feel unsafe, should it be taken away?

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 12:19 PM

I remember back when I worked for PH in the early 90′s they had that policy back then. I had a friend in Denver who was shot on a delivery ’93 and survived, thankfully.

It was a stupid policy then and it’s a stupid policy now.

ConBlog_NH on April 2, 2008 at 12:19 PM

On the other side of the coin, this story just happened yesterday. Give YUM Brands a chance to investigate, make sure the facts are what they appear to be, and then make a decision with regard to their employee. Starting an international boycott of YUM at this stage is highly premature. Give YUM Brands a chance. They are an American company. Let’s give our own the benefit of the doubt.

indythinker on April 2, 2008 at 12:19 PM

this guy didn’t fit their employee profile.
he is brave, motivated, self reliant, proud and resourceful.
besides, PH makes bad pizzas.

he just didn’t fit in.

jimmer on April 2, 2008 at 12:20 PM

This guy will get a better job, no doubt.

CliffHanger on April 2, 2008 at 12:21 PM

It might even be worth it if the pizza was good, which Pizza Hut resoundingly isn’t.

Blacklake on April 2, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Yup. I’d be happy to boycott. Or write a letter.

But then the company would send me coupons for free pizza. And I don’t want that. Because their pizza does indeed suck.

If somebody’s collecting $$ for the guy, post a link to that. I’d rather give him money.

Professor Blather on April 2, 2008 at 12:22 PM

I never stated that “they shouldn’t carry guns.” I, like MNDavenotPC, was just pointing out that a company should be able to institute a policy like this one if it wants to. If the delivery man feels unsafe and has the legal right to carry a concealed weapon, he has every right to ignore the policy and carry anyways. But Pizza Hut has the right to have a no-gun policy just the same way they have a right to have their employees wear uniforms. If you want it changed, boycott the product or call them… they’ll probably end up choosing whichever decision is more profitable.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:22 PM

By the way, the pic on the HA front page must be a file photo…because that sure looks like some tasty pie, and the Hut turns out crap…

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:22 PM

My first case of food poisoning came about from eating Pizza at Pizza Hut 30 years ago. I have not eaten Pizza Hut pizza since.

PrettyD_Vicious on April 2, 2008 at 12:24 PM

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 12:17 PM

No argument from me, I know I would have done the same thing. Guess all I’m saying is…. yep, they have a right to be idiots. My concern is that even though I carry, I have more responsibility and restrictions on me than a criminal or non carrying individual. I’m conflicted, though, when issues like this come up. No, I won’t give up my weapon.

MNDavenotPC on April 2, 2008 at 12:24 PM

A state Senator is threatening a boycott, pending the outcome.

amerpundit on April 2, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

In Texas, and I am sure in other states too, the people who possess a concealed handgun license are some of the most responsible, law abiding citizens in the country. To obtain the license, they have to pass an extensive background check, pass a handgun proficiency test, and take a class to know when it is appropriate to use the handgun and to try every other method at your disposal to avoid using your handgun. You have nothing to fear from someone with a license legally carrying a handgun. Good for that delivery guy. I hope he finds a good job soon.

txsurveyor on April 2, 2008 at 12:26 PM

I can see the point, wrong though it is, about not wanting “armed pizza drivers” coming to your front door. However, I think this would fall under the same thing as anyone else who may be armed, they must legally do so.

I would venture to say that anyone who actually gets a *legal* concealed carry permit would be some of the last people to commit a crime, just like those “evil” legal class3 gun nuts /sarc.

I mean, it’s not like they are going to be handing out Glocks or Berettas with the High-Tech-Pizza-Steamer Bags on the way out the back door.

JamesLee on April 2, 2008 at 12:26 PM

What would be the best CCW for a pizza delivery guy…

HK P7M8 is the best compact pistol ever, of course, but hard to get now they are no longer in production, and at any rate too pricey for that social strata. Kel-Tec perhaps then?

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM

NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE.

Why don’t y’all poll the other pizza outfits or other national corporations with delivery persons and see how many of them allow their employees to carry. I’d wager very few or none.

I am a CCP holder and firm believer in the right to self defense, but damning Yum Brands and Pizza Hut for this policy when I can assure you it is widespread borders on, shall I say it, “liberal reasoning”.

And for the record, Yum Brands is one of the few retail food companies that stands up to the freaked out nutjobs from peta. They are a principled company.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM

I am just glad that this man is alive and the perp was shot.

joeswampy on April 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Pizza Hut’s corporate offices in Dallas, said last week that employees are not allowed to carry guns “because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

Translation: When our employees get murdered, we only have to pay a few thousand in worker’s compensation.

Here’s one story that ended with two dead deliverers. Here’s another from earlier this year. Pittsburgh had one two years ago that remains unsolved. Badger Blogger reports on one from December in Wisconsin, where earlier another deliveryman wound up prosecuted for defending himself. A Chicago woman got murdered in 2006 while delivering pizza. Almost three months ago, another pizza-delivery murder occurred in South Carolina. A Google search turns up 574,000 hits for pizza delivery murder.

That’s actually a pretty dangerous job; ranks right up there with taxi driver.

And the odds of somebody getting shot by a pizza delivery worker: zero.

Hey, thanks a lot Pizza Hut; I’ll never think of your sauce again without thinking of all the human blood you put in it.

logis on April 2, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Darn, everyone keeps beating me to my point! LOL Darn this “running a business” thing getting in the way of my reading and posting to blogs!

JamesLee on April 2, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Question: Does anyone know whether Pizza Hut provides hospitalization, disability, and life insurance for its delivery personnel wounded or killed on the job?

It would be interesting information in order to make a judgment about whether they are really concerned about their customers and employees and have faced up to this issue, or whether they are just hiding under their desks.

landlines on April 2, 2008 at 12:30 PM

HK P7M8 is the best compact pistol ever, of course, but hard to get now they are no longer in production, and at any rate too pricey for that social strata. Kel-Tec perhaps then?

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Kel-Tec is a good little pistol, but you better be fairly close to your target because of the short barrel length. I have a CHL and carry a Kel-Tec. I highly recommend it.

txsurveyor on April 2, 2008 at 12:31 PM

I find myself wishing that I’d been a Pizza Hut customer over the years so that my boycott might mean something.

Pizza Hut’s parent company, Yum Brands, also owns Taco Bell, Long John Silver’s, Kentucky Fried (Grilled or whatever) Chicken and A&W Restaurants,

jon1979 on April 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Excellent, thanks for the information! I’ve been a frequent customer of Taco Bell since I was a kid. Not anymore.

Audios, Taco Bell!

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Question: Does anyone know whether Pizza Hut provides hospitalization, disability, and life insurance for its delivery personnel wounded or killed on the job?

Back when I drove for Pizza Hut, drivers were part time: no benefits, period. That discussion on what PH would be liable for in the event of an incident on the job was not discussed.

I’m willing to bet they probably don’t. Drivers have to come with their own vehicle insurance PH assumes no responsibility/liability if the driver gets into an auto accident on the job, but I’m not sure what their stance is on injuries sustained in a robbery attempt.

ConBlog_NH on April 2, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Bring Shakey’s back to life!

Shirotayama on April 2, 2008 at 12:34 PM

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 12:33 PM

You’d better say goodbye to Pepsi and Mountain Dew while you’re at it, too. ;)

ConBlog_NH on April 2, 2008 at 12:35 PM

I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Name one instance where a concealed-carry-licensed pizza delivery guy shot a customer.

VG

Voiceguy on April 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM

I work for a Corporation where we are not allowed to carry weapons on company property. Apparently, there had been previous shootings from “disgruntled” employees and the response was no weapons. As such, I can see their point even though I may not agree with it. BTW, at our retail locations, if being robbed, employees are instructed to give what the robber wants without confrontation.

rudytbone on April 2, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Why not just boycott all of YUM? Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC, Long John Silver’s and A&W Restaurants. Your health will improve.

thuja on April 2, 2008 at 12:40 PM

ok, so I will never get Pizza Hut again because of this. That sucks because I do love their crust. But I love my values more and I have 3 things as an American to voice my opinion on something. I have my voice, I have my vote and I have my wallet. Nothing scares a business more than a boycott.

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 12:43 PM

I think most if not all Pizza delivery operations have a similar rule in that their delivery drivers aren’t supposed to be armed. It’s foolish, dangerous and downright unconstitutional but there it is. Either make your own pizzas, eat the frozen s#!t or don’t eat pizza I guess.

Yakko77 on April 2, 2008 at 12:43 PM

I thought this site was frequented by conservatives-my bad.

All of you folks shouting “boycott” like a bunch of Al Sharptons because a company has the temerity to develop policies that they feel are best for their business.

I worked for a company in Texas that required me to drive into the Fifth Ward of Houston where we had a facility every month, usually before daylight. My company (an Ag concern, very conservative) had a strict no fire arms policy- if you were caught. I openly told my boss that I would not go unarmed into downtown Houston, and particularly the Fifth Ward unarmed. I also told him that the only circumstance by which anyone would ever be aware of my carryiing would be if I had to defend myself, and at that point, my job was the least of my concerns. He never made it an issue.

We both did what we believed was in our best interests.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:44 PM

I too remember going to a place that actually knew how to make pizza – seems like those days are gone forever …

corona on April 2, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Being from the home of Pizza Hut, Wichita Ks. I have quit buying pizzas from them since the mid 80s when the Carney brothers sold it to Pepsico. Pizza Hut used to have great pizza back then but now like everyone else says, it’s pretty much crap any more. I’ll get Papa John’s waaaay before the Hut. BTW Frank Carney was a main investor in Papa John’s when it got started.

ic1redeye on April 2, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:44 PM

Boycotting because of a race pimps threats is one thing. Boycotting because of lack of common sense and throwing your employee under the bus for protecting himself is another.

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:44 PM

Good point. I have been saying that for years. Concealed carry means just that. Concealed. The only way anyone knows if you are carrying is if you are forced to defend yourself or others (in which case I would think they would be REALLY happy you were carrying.)

txsurveyor on April 2, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.
Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

and

Spiers, who has a valid handgun permit

They don’t hand out CCW permits to “unsavory” characters. You have to go through a background check and show proficiency with the firearm. Personally, I would feel safer with a delivery person with a CCW permit.

rbj on April 2, 2008 at 12:50 PM

I thought this site was frequented by conservatives-my bad.
All of you folks shouting “boycott” like a bunch of Al Sharptons…

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:44 PM

Three words: Boston Tea Party.

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM

Many other corporations have simular policies. Most have been fostered on them by the Insurence Industry.

opusrex on April 2, 2008 at 12:54 PM

They don’t hand out CCW permits to “unsavory” characters.
rbj

Ironic! Since Pizza Hut specializes in unsavory pizza.

pseudonominus on April 2, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Arming pizza delivery people is like adding extra cops to the beat, ain’t it? I say arm ‘em up and fight crime at the same time. I’m all about the synergy.

Laddy on April 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Point taken, but I’m not sure I want pizza delivery guys to be carrying a guns. This one seems fairly responsible, but I’ve dealt with some who seemed like less than savory characters. I can’t really blame Pizza Hut for the policy as it seems to be aimed at making its customers feel safer.

Yoosaion on April 2, 2008 at 12:10 PM

I think it has more to do with keeping thieves from shooting first, acting on the premise that the deliverer is likely armed. To a hardened criminal, all is fair in determining who gets to walk away with the caish and who is left dying in a pool of their own blood. This is the reason many such people from bank tellers to quickie mart cashiers are told not to resist, as it is believed that less risk of injury will result from giving the crook what he wants and getting him away from employees and patrons as fast as possible. If thieves know a certain place to put up resistance, they will most likely break in with guns blazing. The owners will be held financially liable for who the criminal huts without written policies that prohibit the employee from acting in a “provocative” way. Sucks, but that’s the Deep Pocket’s perspective.

shuzilla on April 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM

I dont’ think the point of the “boycott” is the policy, necessarily. Obviously, one wouldn’t want to encourage their employees to be packing heat, at least in most circumstances. And if you have that as your official “policy,” fine.

But it’s another thing entirely when a circumstance arises where a person used a legally owned, and legally carried weapon to defend their own life or others, and the company then suspends or fires that person. I wouldn’t have much of a problem if PizzaHut said “that’s against our policy, however, in this circumstance, lives saved, etc etc.”

JamesLee on April 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM

I worked for Domino’s back in the 80s and we were warned about some asshole named Mitch Sims, a former employee perhaps, who was the Domino’s serial killer. We all packed heat and this is way before concealed carry laws. Cops, who got free pizzas, advised us to be “strapped”.

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/S/SIMS_mitchell_carlton_PADGETT_ruby_carolyn.php

manfriend on April 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 12:49 PM

They are simply enforcing a policy. A policy Mr. Spiers was well aware of. Better to be a man about it and simply count yourself fortunate that you made the right decision to carry. That was what I resolved to do when I carried against policy.

So, what pizza outfit have you contacted that condones concealed carry for their drivers? To be consistent I have a feeling you will be boycotting every national chain in the country.

For that matter, try and produce a list of companies that allow thier employees to carry. I’m curious. I think when you expand your principled stand on this issue you’ll be doing very little business with anyone.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Why don’t y’all poll the other pizza outfits or other national corporations with delivery persons and see how many of them allow their employees to carry. I’d wager very few or none.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM

What?! And take away our fun at bashing PH?!

Bring Shakey’s back to life!

Shirotayama on April 2, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Not only that, PH screwed up one of the best pizza places in the world, Straw Hat Pizza when they gobbled them all up and shut them down except for a few places. Screw PH!

Round Table Pizza Rules!!!

ScottG on April 2, 2008 at 1:03 PM

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM

Little history for ya. The Boston Tea Party was an action taken against a tyannical government- not a private enterprise. Sharpton ye remain.

The point is, companies have policies, if you agree to employment, you agree to adhere to the policy. Mr. Spiers should have either sought other employment, or should take his dismissal (if that indeed happens) like a man.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM

I would think that the carry/no-carry policy would be up to the individual and local or state law and not the choice of the company. I personally think it’d be in their best interests not to have a policy about it at all and treat any issues on a case by case basis as I’m guessing these incidents aren’t happening every day.

As far as pizza joints go, I’ve done my best to stay away from corporate/franchised/chain restaurants since I’ve seen a decline in quality, and stick to places like Pizza Orgasmica or Goat Hill Pizza (two of the best in San Francisco IMO).

If ever I’m going to be in a place that I think might be of questionable safety, there’s a H&K .40 compact that takes the edge off of any doubts I might have.

fanderbiles on April 2, 2008 at 1:14 PM

I’m so happy that we as rational minded conservatives are capable of taking the uniform liberal arguement of “corporations are evil” and twist it fit the “corporations don’t care for the safety of their employees” concept when 2nd admendment issues come up. And people ask what’s happened to the Republican party.

Let’s examine a couple of things here.

1.)If the dude wanted to work at a job where he got to carry a gun he should have been an armed security guard, not a pizza delivery man.

2.) All resturants, and especially those with at-home delivery services do not allow guns, not only that, in event of robberies, they are instructed to give the robber what he wants and not to play hero. Statistically, the chances of living through an armed robbery are greater as long as you cooperate and don’t try to play hero. Not to mention the chances of someone else getting hurt is also lowered. In all cases, it is meant becuase the lives of the employees are worth more than the money in the till.

BTW, has it been determined if the robber fired first at the delivery dude?
The reason I ask:

3.) we live in a litigation happy society. We have lawyers willing to pounce at every possible target at any opportune moment. What do you think the odds are that the 19 year old kid won’t try to sue now that’s injured, especially when the driver violated company policy (complicate that if Pizza Hut allowed him to keep his job) If you don’t think some lawyer won’t take that on, you’re naive. Corporations have a right to protect themselves from litigation just as much as this driver has to protect himself from the robber. The problem is because of all the lawsuits, unfortunatly, somebody’s toes will always get stepped on. Blame the lawyers and if need be, blame governments for letting this happen.

4.) It’s a pizza delivery job in Iowa, those are a dime a dozen.

Stop thinking with your trigger fingers for five seconds and look at all sides of this story. Did the driver have a right to protect himself? Yes, Does Pizza Hut have a right to institute their own policy for situation like this? Yes. Do we know if the driver would have been killed had he not cooperated with the robber? Can’t prove it either way.

Little more complicated than what is being made of it.

Pcoop on April 2, 2008 at 1:15 PM

i used to work for pizza hut; if this individual had his license to carry his fire-arm he should be alright. It’s not like pizza hut is arming drivers willy-nilly. I used to keep a legtimate looking co2 bb gun on me at all times for some level of protection, but I don’t think any customers would have anything to worry about; I was more worried about the sketchy individuals lurking about the alley that i had to drive thru to deliver my pizza or what kind of tip I’d get from the person once I finally made it, let alone trying to think of anything awful to do to the person I’m bringing my pizza too. I think the most dangerous person you’d have bring a pizza to your door would be the guy who went too slow because he was trying to smoke his bowl on the way and resulted in your pizza being a bit cold.

drift on April 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Honestly, I never gave much thought to whether delivery people are strapped or not. Now that Pizza Hut has come into my mind with this story, I will decide not to purchase from them anymore. Like I said before, that’s the voice I have as a consumer.
I never really gave it much thought before but with things the way they are in this country, be it 3rd graders planning to kill their teacher, robbery, murder for shoes, gangs, Islamofascists, crazy kids on the Baltimore bus system, schoolyard killers. I think I’ll arm myself for my own protection.
If I were to ever think about taking a job as a delivery person, arming myself would be a precondition. Another job would be more likely though I suppose.

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 1:25 PM

Pappa Johns or Pizza Inn. the best.

wepeople on April 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Little history for ya. The Boston Tea Party was an action taken against a tyannical government- not a private enterprise. Sharpton ye remain.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Why didn’t they just stop drinking tea instead of committing an actual crime? It’s only tea. And the crown wasn’t selling the tea, it was owned by the East India Company, a publicly traded company.

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM

Plus, and I’m saying this strictly as a gun crazy, right wing lunatic. Which would you prefer? A guy working his job, paying taxes, doing the right thing with a license to carry( it was aaid before that they don’t just hand out LTC to anyone), Or a dead scumbag who’s too lazy to hold a job like everyone else and resorts to robbing hardworking people, all for his drug habit. Or whatever he needs money for?

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Talk about your potential for a “unified work stoppage”.

What kind of world would it be in which each and every delivery person (or personness of course) stopped deliveries at 8pm on a Friday night.

Cats and dogs, living together- mass hysteria.

Robbing delivery personnel is not only ‘pu$$y’- but very much threatens the American culinary way of life.

Let’s set some traps and make some examples before this gets totally out of hand and people are discouraged from using their “outside voices” in these situations as to risk making the company they represent “look outwardly jerky”.

ChipDWood on April 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM

I posted this comment earlier in the other thread:

“I am a delivery driver, and have worked for all the Big 3. ALL have the same company policy, which basically is to cooperate with the robber. Even carrying a tazer or mace is a firing offense. Of course, there’s nothing in the rules that explains what to do if you get the psycho who thinks he has to kill you to keep you quiet over the $30 he’s stealing. Bottom line – it’s the company protecting itself from lawsuits, not protecting their drivers or workers. They’d rather have injured or dead employees than some lowlife threatening to take his business elsewhere.”

A Domino’s driver near my delivery area was robbed several months back. He was unarmed and cooperated. That didn’t stop his attackers from beating and pistol-whipping him anyway before one of them said “go ahead and kill him.” Fortunately the driver freaked out, grabbed the gun, and chased them away. I was surprised he wasn’t fired for grabbing the gun from his would-be murderers.

Statistics be damned. I don’t like to put my life in the hands of a “likely or not” situation. I’d rather at least be prepared for it (although I don’t carry – I just think about it a lot). It’s bad enough that we have to use those damn car toppers, which are basically just big bullseyes.

JimRich on April 2, 2008 at 1:36 PM

How can a post be so one sided? I would love to see this problem addressed by Ed.

I think part of the reason PH doesn’t want drivers carrying weapons is that the next robber will still call PH, but will assume that the guy has a gun, so the encounter might be uglier than the driver just losing money.

Banks do something similar. In cases of robbery, they tell you to wait for the robber to leave before calling the police because it’s safer for everyone.

mycowardice on April 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM

FloatingRock on April 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM

Who were they protesting? Taxes/The Crown.

East India was a quasi-government organization chartered by the Crown to monopolize trade.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:40 PM

I work for a Corporation where we are not allowed to carry weapons on company property. Apparently, there had been previous shootings from “disgruntled” employees and the response was no weapons. As such, I can see their point even though I may not agree with it. BTW, at our retail locations, if being robbed, employees are instructed to give what the robber wants without confrontation.

rudytbone on April 2, 2008 at 12:40 PM

What point do you see? They had first hand experience with a shooting, the response was to disarm the targets, and you think they have a point?

As for giving the robber what he wants: go with that if you want to, but let’s not pretend it has anything to do with the safety of the employee. Up until 9/11, the percentages on plane hijacking were to do what the hijackers wanted you to do. I’m not sure you’ll get a lot of folks who want to play that percentage any more. Requiring them, by policy, to do so is madness.

TexasDan on April 2, 2008 at 1:41 PM

The suspect, Kenneth Jimmerson, 19, was arrested when he later called for medical help. Jimmerson, who police say suffered at least three gunshot wounds, survived his injuries and faces a first-degree robbery charge.

Wounded him??? The driver should be suspended until he can prove that he can pop his assailants melon with a slug. THAT, should be PH’s standard for employment.

gozips on April 2, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Man……..today is a bad day for fast food. First no more McDonald’s due to them providing funds to lobby for same sex marriage and now no Pizza Hut due to their lack of respect for the 2nd Amendment and personal safety. Oh well………..Lots of other choices out there.

azcop on April 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM

Wounded him??? The driver should be suspended until he can prove that he can pop his assailants melon with a slug. THAT, should be PH’s standard for employment.

gozips on April 2, 2008 at 1:45 PM

I don’t know….I think it will be pretty fun for the idiot to explain what got him into prison.

azcop on April 2, 2008 at 1:47 PM

mycowardice on April 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM

The perverse logic behind this “armed people make for potentially uglier outcomes, so disarm them” is thoroughly revolting.

Do you realise what you’re saying?

You are treating people like pawns in some grand gaming theory experiment. Nobody can see into the future, so we cannot say whether an armed individual may exacerbate a situation, true. Neither can we say that the armed individual would triumph, nor can we say that a disarmed person will not be murdered. There are a variety of outcomes, many of which are favourable to an armed individual, and yet you are prepared to settle on one scenario that disarms the individual and leaves their future life in the hands of a criminal. A person who, by definition, has already shown contempt for life by their very criminal actions.

That is hideously sociopathic. People like you disgust me.

LimeyGeek on April 2, 2008 at 1:48 PM

A couple of folks have this figured right. It’s all about potential lawsuits. Say what you will about CCP holders (I am one of them) and the fact that they are by and large the best and most repsonsible citizens (Thank you), the demographic represented by the average delivery driver (with apologies) is no the same.

I carry. I encourage others to attain the required degree of proficiency (whatever that is) and to carry. The bug in my ass here is the unexplainable propensity of conservatives(??) on this thread to denigrate a privately held company for simply enforcing well known and established policies.

If the driver is a true conservative he would simply accept the consequences of his breaking the rule. He made the right choice in my mind- now live with it.

Alamo on April 2, 2008 at 1:50 PM

I agree that it’s Yum’s policy to not allow employees to protect themselves, and I’d stop ordering Pizza Hut but it sucks so it’s never been an option to begin with. However, no more Taco Bell, Long John Silver’s, that disgusting KFC (puke..Popeye’s is far better), but I do like a diet Pepsi now and then. Support your local pizza shops and for god’s sake people, tip the drivers. You don’t want to know what I did to notorious non-tippers!

manfriend on April 2, 2008 at 2:00 PM

To paraphrase Raymond “Rain Man” Babbit:

Pizza Hut Sucks.

I bet you a jelly donut that this guy is quickly picked up somewhere by an enterprising pizza pie builder.

“Pizza Pie Palace – Our Motto: Try to rob our delivery guys and you’ll wind up dead or in jail”

Mike D. on April 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM

You don’t want to know what I did to notorious non-tippers!

manfriend on April 2, 2008 at 2:00 PM

hah and some people would wonder why it was always cold when I’d roll up and they’d continue to neglect to give me any sort of tips. At least I hope that’s what you are talking about too…I wouldn’t ever do anything vile to the food itself, but oops, my window was cracked and the box blew lid blew open, which did happen from time to time…

drift on April 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM

Support your local pizza shops
manfriend on April 2, 2008 at 2:00 PM

I do support my local pizza place and none of the places you mentioned that serve pizza can touch them so I won’t have to go out of my way to avoid them. Although Taco Bell is going to be tough. Best hangover food eva.
I also don’t drink any Miller products because of the Folsom Street Fair. Beside, Miller sucks.
Long Live Guinness!!!

Geronimo on April 2, 2008 at 2:08 PM

I would boycott Pizza Hut if I ever bought pizza.

freevillage on April 2, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Alamo:

Well said…. I always encourage people who wish to carry to go through what I did. What is amazing is the number of wanna be gunslingers who get washed out of the classes. The adherence to the law always gets them. I would have , in all probability, have shot the piece of dirt who ordered the pizza, but with the knowledge that my job is gone and I’ll be investigated.

MNDavenotPC on April 2, 2008 at 2:10 PM

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