And it’s one hell of a test. In fact, you could compare it to a final exam. I just can’t stress this enough. What the country is going to look like for the next five years is being decided right now.

First, it’s a test for the whole concept of wi…

The British media were running articles several years ago about how British forces were infinitely more effective in Basra with their infinitely more sophisticated and nuanced approach. You see, the ignorant, warmonger Yanks simply weren’t intelligent or sophisticated enough.

I heard this line parroted by a few British army soldiers I know. It’s not convincing even to them I suspect.

There is a great deal of discontent concerning their role in a world where they are taking on more and more commitments every year with less and less financial and moral support from back home. There is also the natural jealousy when they see how much more valued US soldiers are in terms of equipment and conditions out in the field.

Against this backdrop the ‘hearts and minds’ BS reads like a cynical Ministry of Defence PR stunt tbh…

Obviously, the Taliban moved back in.

Immediately.

And it was left to British and other ISAF forces to reclaim the territory that had been effectively surrendered.

The point is that I do not believe that this was naivete on the part of the British. I believe they knew exactly what they were doing and what would happen in both Afghanistan and Basra. Their assurances to the public that security improvements in the regions allowed a draw-down of troops was not a mistake. It was willful blindness and deceit.

This is what happens when you allow foreign policy to be dictated by the media and, specifically, by the BBC.

Reported from Mahogany Ridge?

major john on March 28, 2008 at 1:23 PM

I dunno, could be. Maybe from a swimming pool in the Green Zone. Maybe from Saigon.

It’s all over the news. I doubt that it was just made up out of whole cloth as part of some vast conspiracy.

Four U.S. Stryker armored vehicles were seen in Sadr City by a Washington Post correspondent, one of them engaging Mahdi Army militiamen with heavy fire. The din of American weapons, along with the Mahdi Army’s AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades, was heard through much of the day. U.S. helicopters and drones buzzed overhead.

The point of the surge was to create a more secure environment in order for the Iraqi government to plant firm roots so it could stand on its own once U.S. troops left. In Basra and Sadr City the Maliki government has engaged insurgent Shia factions. I…

Failure is bombing a city you are occupying.

alphie on March 28, 2008 at 10:41 AM

If we were “bombing a city” Baghdad and Basra would cease to exist.

franksalterego on March 28, 2008 at 10:48 AM

We had to destroy the village in order to save it.

Iraqi army and police units appeared to be largely holding to the outskirts of the area as American troops took the lead in the fighting.

Reported from Mahogany Ridge?

The British should have to leave their weapons, tanks, ammo, choppers and planes there for the Iraqi Security Forces. If the British aren’t going to stand up and fight then there is no need for the gear.

The UK armed forces gear is largely rubbish as they have been chronically underfunded for decades.

I doubt the jihadis would want it let alone the Iraqis.

So ‘The Surge’ was supposed to secure Baghdad and the problems in Basra were the fault of the British.

If that is the case, then why is Baghdad under curfew and why is it raining mortars in the Green Zone?

lexhamfox on March 28, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Because the Iraqis are firing super duper long range mortars from Basra to Baghdad and the Green Zone?

That must be it.

See how all the American training of Iraqis has paid off. Now why didn’t the Brits do that?

Not while I am serving here.
major john on March 28, 2008 at 11:51 AM

Maybe you guys should . . .
alphie on March 28, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Who wants to bet the Major knows a little bit more about what he’s saying than “alphie”.

Another thing I’d put my money on: Major John could kick alphie’s @$$ in a fight.

In fact with a name like Alphie I’ll bet it happens to him all the time.

Want to know what would happen to Iraq if a Democrat wins in November and fulfills their promise to remove US troops? Take a look at what’s happening in Basra, at the southern tip of Iraq.

British forces were responsible for the south of Iraq, w…

Maybe you guys should let the residents of Basra vote on whether they want to be “liberated” by an Iranian backed central government and U.S. “precision” bombs?

I doubt 1% would vote yes…

If that is the case, then why is Baghdad under curfew and why is it raining mortars in the Green Zone? You accuse the British of failing in Basra but wasn’t it the Americans who gave Sadr $350,000,000 in return for a cease fire? How is that tough? Did those funds go to good public works?

There are legitimate questions to be raised about British tactics in Basra… just as there are legitimate questions to be raised about the success of the surge policy and the policy the Americans have used of paying off rather than effectively defeating militants all our Iraq and Afghanistan. The synopsis here is pretty simplistic and wholly incorrect… and really as useful (read useless) as blaming the Bush administration for disbanding the army and creating the core of the insurgency in the first place… as well as conspiring to increase Iran’s influence in the region.

The real test will be to see if the Iraqi government can effectively control a vital part of the country with the troops that we have spent so much time and effort to train.

It’s no wonder the toughest fights we see reported most often appear to be between US troops and non-Iraqi fighters.

Reported being the key word. The Iraqi Army and Police are doing the brunt of the fighting in this country. We are often the decisive element, but to discount the IA and IP is a bit uninformed. The Iraqi division I am working with is involved in this – try telling them they aren’t doing anything…

He’s going to be running Iraq soon anyways.

America doesn’t always have to back corrupt incompetents (see:Vietnam).

Our warplanes use precision guided munitions to take out enemy emplacements.

As for Sadr, what he says publicly and what he orders his gang to do are completely different things. When I see someone repeating anything Ali Sadr has said, I know I’m dealing with a complete moron.

Incredible how people like you think they are qualified to interpret law. Especially when your interpretations are not based on facts.
The Mahdi army is occupying Basra and stealing most of the oil production in order to finance their terrorist organization. Basra population is made up of Mahdi army members and their supporters. Blanket bomb the bastards and start over.
Unfortunately, this is just another of Britain’s long list of failures that would not have come about had they the courage to do their dam job. They should just get the hell out of the way.

Failure is bombing a city you are occupying.

alphie on March 28, 2008 at 10:41 AM

If we were “bombing a city” Baghdad and Basra would cease to exist.

Failure is bombing a city you are occupying.

It’s a war crime, actually.

We’re currently bombing Basra and Baghdad.

Interesting choice to go with Rupert Murdoch’s spin instead of Bush’s, though.

alphie on March 28, 2008 at 10:41 AM

I see Noam Chomsky has entered the building…