Mumia conviction upheld, death penalty overturned Update: “Human rights campaigner”?
posted at 1:14 pm on March 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Call this one a wash. Left-wing cause celebre Mumia Abu-Jamal won his appeal for the sentence on his murder conviction, but a federal appellate court upheld the conviction itself for the murder of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner. He either has to have a new sentencing hearing or have his sentence downgraded automatically to life:
In a major victory for world-famous death-row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal, a federal appeals court today refused to reinstate his death sentence for the 1981 murder of Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner.
A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that Abu-Jamal must be sentenced to life in prison or get a chance with a new Philadelphia jury, which would decide anew whether he should get life in prison or be sentenced – again – to death.
At the same time, the judges upheld his first-degree murder conviction, rejecting Abu-Jamal’s claim that he deserves an entirely new trial and a chance to prove his innocence.
Mumia’s case has been adopted by those who oppose the death penalty as a concept, and they have done what they normally do: turn the criminal into an ersatz martyr. The same thing happened with Stanley “Tookie” Williams in California, who murdered an entire family. Instead of just arguing against the death penalty, activists go too far and try to convince people that Mumia and other murderers are actual innocents, or murdered because life was unfair to them, or any rationalization that will get the case on the front pages.
The court makes the better distinction in this case by separating the conviction from the sentence and reaffirming Mumia’s guilt. The state will almost certainly appeal this to the Supreme Court, and Mumia will probably also appeal his conviction, too, as Michelle notes. Afterwards, Pennsylvania will have the opportunity to present a death-penalty argument to a new jury, and if it holds up, Mumia will get another death sentence.
Maybe they should consider letting Mumia rot. I’m not a fan of the death penalty, but one application where it makes sense is when someone murders a police officer, especially for no particular reason. That act strikes at the heart of the community and constitutes an attack on civilization, and if the penalty got applied equally in all such situations, I could support it. In this case, though, it just keeps Mumia in the news, which is exactly what he wants. If he got a life sentence with no possibility of parole, his celebrity friends would soon lose interest and leave him to die, forgotten, in the Pennsylvania penal system.
Maureen Faulkner has a different opinion, and a fascinating book on the murder of her husband, Murdered by Mumia. In it, Maureen discusses her own life sentence of pain and loss, and reviews the overwhelming case that put Mumia on Death Row. I’d recommend it to everyone. I also interviewed Mrs. Faulkner when the book hit the market, which you can hear at this link.
Update: Via my friends at Power Line, the coverage of Agence France-Presse has to be seen to be believed:
A US federal appeals court on Thursday overturned the death sentence passed against human rights campaigner Mumia Abu-Jamal, while upholding his conviction for the murder of a police officer.
Human-rights campaigner? How about “murderer”? He’s been an activist, all right …. on his own behalf. Ugh.
Update II: Shaun Mullen, who had been a journalist in Philly and knew Mumia before the murder, has a recap that’s well worth reading. In the same podcast as I linked above, I interviewed Shaun about the case, so be sure to listen to the entire show.
Blowback
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Quick, someone shoot him.
Jaibones on March 27, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Better to outright kill someone and their family and get the death penalty, then to murder someone and get 20 years.
Hey Ed, just out of curiosity, for a Christian, how can murdering someone not be considered for the death penalty. You have to re-write some basic tenets in the bible not to apply the death penalty.
right2bright on March 27, 2008 at 1:19 PM
What a travesty. The pukes have won again.
NTWR on March 27, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Life is not the same as life without the possibility of parole. If his sentence is reduced to life, he may not only be eligible for parole but for mandatory parole. The ruling was by a three judge panel and not the entire court.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 1:19 PM
*sigh*
The death penalty is so hard to enforce. Oh well give him parole when he is on his deathbed. Let him die on the outside in a world he no longer understands or can ever become a part of again. Let the left celebrate him as a free pathetic old man…
Theworldisnotenough on March 27, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Maybe, just maybe, someone will nail this piece of garbage in the big house. He won’t get what’s coming to him from our justice system.
maintenanceman on March 27, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Have they made Mumia face purses and t-shirts for the rich white kids yet?
NTWR on March 27, 2008 at 1:22 PM
The lefties have a funny way of pickin’ their heroes.
Tony737 on March 27, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Abu-Jamal and his supporters is a good example of the weird, twisting nihilism that seems to eventually infect all left-wing causes.
I was in Berkeley when the Abu-Jamal bandwagon really got going, and it was rather sickening to watch the focus of anti-death penalty activism morphed and grew into “kill the pigs!”-type rhetoric. Faulkner’s widow is to be admired for enduring the calumny directed against her dead husband as part of the Abu-Jamal sideshow. It wasn’t enough for these people to be against the death penalty; they had to turn this muredering scumbag Abu-Jamal into a hero and moral leader, and turn his victim into a cog of the prison-industrial complex who got what he deserved. It was at times literally nauseating.
Muswell Hillbilly on March 27, 2008 at 1:22 PM
As a sidenote, the Berkeley humor magazine “The Heuristic Squelch” would run some fake coupon cut-outs that said “Free Mumia! (with any purchase of large soda)”
Muswell Hillbilly on March 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Well, it looks like Penn had lwop on the books when he committed his crime so he could be sentenced to lwop. However, what people don’t understand is that there is a movement afoot to abolish all lwop and life sentences and have sentencing similar to europe where murderers do on average 10-15 years.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM
My heart goes out to Mrs. Faulkner.
mymanpotsandpans on March 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Let the guy out, give him his own church in So. Chicago, he’ll blend right in.
repvoter on March 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Just spread the word in prison that he’s there for child molestation — someone will take care of him a la Jeffrey Dahmer.
It’s disgusting the way he’s manipulated the system and the left. There are truly innocent people in jail, resources should be spend getting them out, not a murderer.
rbj on March 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM
My father was the third car on location the night Danny Faulkner was killed, if my father would have been a minute sooner, mumia would be dead. Or if the Philly cops would have had their Glocks back then instead of that lousy 158 grain .38 semi-wad cutter, mumia would probably been dead, instead, he was able to fire the second, and fatal shot into Faulkner.
SAM 1X on March 27, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Because the law is for all people, not just Christians. There is this whole separation of church and state thing…its quite a drag for fundamentalists I hear.
Dr. Manhattan on March 27, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Unfortunately, still breathing.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 27, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Just another example of how bad our justice system is broken.
TimboJackson on March 27, 2008 at 1:37 PM
He looks like Whoopie on a good day.
Hening on March 27, 2008 at 1:40 PM
God established the death penalty under Noah, before there were any Jews or Christians (Genesis 9). “Whosoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed.” This law is for all people.
Akzed on March 27, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Disgusting. Every time there is a vote on the death penalty, the majority support it. However, the minority have gone to great lengths to obstruct and delay it’s implimentation. In Kalifornia, it takes, on average, 24 YEARS from sentence to execution. Only now executions are on hold. The THEORY is that death by lethal injection is “cruel and unusal punishment”. Proof? None, it’s only a THEORY. And the liberal judges buy it. There are supposed to be “deadlines” when things are supposed to occur in a death penalty case. None of those “deadlines” are met. If you die on death row in Kalifornia, it will be from natural causes. If Mumia gets “life”, he’ll immediately be eligible for parole.
GarandFan on March 27, 2008 at 1:42 PM
This is what happens when there is no swift justice.
Johan Klaus on March 27, 2008 at 1:43 PM
What a bozo…read what I wrote. It was a note to him, to Ed, Not a thesis on society’s role in the death penalty. It was one Christian asking another. He said he was against the death penalty.
Guys (or gals) like you are so sensitive about Christians, or afraid of Christians, or maybe you are just really dumb and can’t understand a simple post.
And notice that I came right out and called you what I thought of you, I didn’t “couch” my statement and hide behind a snide remark. So I may only have an indication of how you feel about Christians, but I do know you’re not a man.
right2bright on March 27, 2008 at 1:44 PM
I’m sure he’s innocent. Isn’t eveyone in jail innocent? That’s what I hear anyway.
Geronimo on March 27, 2008 at 1:44 PM
I support it even if it’s not a cop. I support it in many first and second degree murder situations.
Perhaps people who don’t want the authorities to punish their murderer with the death penalty ought to opt-out in advance, maybe with a check off next to their organ donation option on the driver’s license.
JiangxiDad on March 27, 2008 at 1:45 PM
Ed says I’m not a fan of the death penalty, but one application where it makes sense is when someone murders a police officer, especially for no particular reason. How about the murder of a father, mother, brother, son, daughter,neighbor,friend.
joeswampy on March 27, 2008 at 1:47 PM
Human rights campaigner
Don’t forget many time nominee for Nobel Peace Prize.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 1:52 PM
As long as he lives, he’s a celebrity.
When he dead, he’ll be forgotten soon after.
Unlike other kooks that make their murderous fiends martyrs,
these western kooks have short attention spans.
When celebrity causes cannot speak out from the grave,
they are quickly forgotten in favor of the next voice of deviate devote’ du jour .
Kini on March 27, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Maybe Joe Klein would like to nominate him as the Democrat POTUS candidate instead of Al Gore.
Wade on March 27, 2008 at 1:55 PM
true. remember the nutty nun who hung out with some guy on death row. can’t remember her name or his.
they even dropped Cindy Sheehan before she died.
JiangxiDad on March 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM
When the Constitution was written, people were hanged for murder. That was not considered cruel an unusual. The courts have come up with their decisions out of whole cloth.
Johan Klaus on March 27, 2008 at 1:57 PM
FREE MUMIA!! from his mortal coil.
Isn’t it ironic that the cause celeb of the anti-death penalty movement is probably the only person in the courtroom who has actually carried out a death-sentence? Isn’t it ironic that these people who claim to be anti-death worship at the altar of a stone cold killer?
29Victor on March 27, 2008 at 2:03 PM
When I die, I think it’s likely to be a bummer. You know, pain, agony, and such. It’s a fact of death, or at least most death. Why should people who have committed such horrible crimes get off without the least pain? I’m not saying we should deliberately increase the pain. I am saying we can way too far in worrying about a little bit of death throes.
thuja on March 27, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Guess what Mumia thinks of Rev. Wright…
Cuffy Meigs on March 27, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Either he or Peltier was the running mate on some third party whacko ticket a few years ago.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 2:09 PM
The Faulkners are (or Danny would be if he hadn’t been murdered) just about my age, and his death happened shortly after I’d just given birth to my son 3000 miles away. It really hit home to me that this young couple would never be able to enjoy a child like I was enjoying mine, and how Danny Faulkner’s life was cut so tragically short. I’ve never forgotten them.
Read the book. Heck, go online to and read the transcripts of the trials. It’ll annoy you, but think how the Faulkner family must have felt.
But I’m probably preaching to the choir here…
Bob's Kid on March 27, 2008 at 2:09 PM
I had to look that up again. Sister Helen Prejean who inspired the Hollywood movie Dead Man Walking with Sean Penn and Susan Sarandon. Can you imagine Sean Penn in black face and with dread locks?
In the case of Sheehan, the libs turn her into the walking dead.
Kini on March 27, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Human rights campaigner?
Don’t these idiots know (realize) that Mumia ended Danny Faulkner’s human rights?
As a human rights ender, I think we should have the ability to end a few of Mumia’s rights. As a convicted felon, he’s already lost his right to vote. Although…..it is tempting to speculate whom he would vote for….but I digress. Why can’t we suspend his free speech right? If they really want him to rot, send to Supermax prison with no media contact.
To those that think Mumia should be released…….all in favor of taking Mumia home take one step forward. Any takers, any takers?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on March 27, 2008 at 2:15 PM
If it was good enough for Tim McVeigh (which I believe it was!), then it’s good enough for other law enforcement killers. Bye – Bye Mumia.
Branch Rickey on March 27, 2008 at 2:19 PM
It’s refreshing to see his first degree murder charge upheld. Through all these years, many people have lost knowlege of what really happened that night, and the fact taht he admitted shooting the officer. Now he wants to blame it on his brother. Whatever. He killed the cop, and was able to get The Beastie Boys and every other left leaning hollywood icon to back him for it.
You have to go to Geno’s steaks to even see the picture of the murdered officer anymore, but this joke’s face is plastered everywhere.
One thing though Ed, as a fellow practicing Catholic, I would hope you stand with me against the death penalty. We have no right to put people to death, but we certainly should have him locked up in a cell in the basement of the prison till the day he expires. He and other murderes don’t deserve a short life. They deserve to sit and fester, locked up in a living purgatory to relive over and over the event to took away their right to freedom.
That being said, I’d never go out and protest for him not to be executed. But I’d still pray for him.
Vincenzo on March 27, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Not while Rendell is in office.
rightwingprof on March 27, 2008 at 2:32 PM
I agree it’s digusting for sure, now the victim is the “bad guy” and his wife has to endure the tarnishing of his memory. As for the left being manipulated, that isn’t difficult to do considering they live in a world devoid of reality, fairness, and justice, not to mention the fact it’s easy to manipulate those with little intelligence and no moral compass.
Liberty or Death on March 27, 2008 at 2:35 PM
But that is not what or could happen under the law. So, arguing that this is some sort of a suitable substitute for the death penalty is disingenuous.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Fine, give him life. But make him spend it in that bottomless pit prison in Colorado. That way he could never be heard from again and he could never profit or encourage his followers again. Oh, and Mrs. Fauldner should have the privilage of slamming his prison door shut.
oakpack on March 27, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Well……….., just for sh*ts and giggles, maybe we can take turns standing in front of his jail cell stepping in, then stepping out of the door to his prison.
All the time saying “I can come in……. I can go out……. I can come in……. I can go out”.
There should be enough willing people to torment this piece of trash for the rest of his sorry life…….
Seven Percent Solution on March 27, 2008 at 2:40 PM
You people who propose all these bizarre illegal punishments, why don’t you just be honest and state that you are against the death penalty? You’re fooling no one.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Mumia Abu Jamal on The Obama Factor
Connie on March 27, 2008 at 3:03 PM
IMHO any murder “strikes at the heart of the community”…
All murderers should be put to death…not just those who kill a “favored” member of society. Cops are not “special” in any way IMHO.
pseudonominus on March 27, 2008 at 3:15 PM
A listing of the supporters of this
POS, sorryfreedom fighter,human rights champion, OK POS are listed on the Daniel faulkner website. The usual suspects ………SupportersofMumiaAbu-Jamal
Britcop on March 27, 2008 at 3:17 PM
The death penalty is too hard to enforce! The hell it is, do it and it’s over!
Life in prison is what’s hard to enforce! Some fraking idiot will find a way to put the killer on the street! Some widow will spend her life facing parole boards trying to keep the monster locked away.
Ed, I love the heck out of you, but not killing the bad guys is why people like Faulkner’s widow have to write books to educate the public to keep the bad guy locked up. That’s wrong.
Maquis on March 27, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Oh please, please let the loons on the left make Philadelphia native Mumia into an issue in the Pennsylvania primary. I don’t thkni even Hillary in her current state could screw up the answer to this question, but Obama’s pastor and some of the others he’s hung with in the past are just the types to think Faulkner got what he deserved and society in general are the criminals here who really framed Abu-Jamal.
I would just love to hear Barak’s nuanced, diplomatic answer on whether Mumia not only shouldn’t have gotten the death penalty, but if he had a fair trial at all. Ought to be a heck of a tightrope walk.
jon1979 on March 27, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Regarding the “human rights campaigner” comment in AFP, this sort of stuff does have consequences.
One of the problems is that when legitimate human rights campaigners find themselves with legal or other problems they find it difficult to generate public support. Why? Because they find themselves lumped in (in the public’s mind) with the likes of Momie.
If the media would just play it straight, it would be better for everybody…and,of course, if pigs could fly…
Blaise on March 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM
Paris has a street named after Mumia. Really!
Maquis on March 27, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Firstly, could anyone give me an example of a “particular reason” to kill a police officer?
Secondly, while some here seem to make the case that the killing of a police officer does not warrant a more severe punishment than other murders, let me present the case that the murders of police officers are special cases and deserve greater punishment.
Police officers are unique in society. They are the only people paid and authorized and required by law to deprive people of their liberty; they are also the only people paid and authorized by law to deprive people of their lives under some circumstances with no prior judicial review. We place an enormous amount of trust and responsibility in police officers, and the vast majority of them discharge that responsibility in a selfless way.
Furthermore, when crime and disorder impact us it is to police officers that we turn to restore order and safety. When others run from danger, police officers are expected to (and do) run in the direction of the danger, placing themselves in harms way to protect the rest of us. They do this without a second thought, exposing themselves to danger on a daily basis to protect people they’ve never met, some of whom despise them. When a police officer is murdered, they die in our name and in our service. Those who kill police officers deserve the full weight of the law crashing down on them.
Yes, I am a retired police officer and I grieved the death by murder of nine of my friends and colleagues during my career. Despite those deaths it never once crossed my mind not to go to work and not to uphold the responsibily entrusted to me.
Trafalgar on March 27, 2008 at 3:34 PM
There are a handful of days in my life that started me on the road to conservatism, and I remember all of them. The most vivid involved a case like this one.
Fall of 1998. My second year of law school. Your standard stereotype liberal activist hippie type sent out an e-mail to the whole class, asking that we support an alleged cop killer. I think he’d actually murdered a cop and a couple civilians.
We were asked to sign a petition, send money, go to a march – the usual college sophomoric horseshit.
I didn’t dismiss it out of hand (like I probably would today). But I did take the time to do a little research on the case … sure I’d find out that some poor sap was unjustly imprisoned.
What I found instead was a case with so much evidence it made OJ look innocent by comparison. Beyond a reasonable doubt? Uh, no – this guy was guilty beyond even the most unreasonable doubt.
The cop was young. He had a wife and several children. And this idiot classmate of mine wanted me to support this monster?
So I replied to the e-mail. To everyone on the list. And all I asked was one simple, short question: hey, before we support this guy … are we sure he’s innocent?
You can guess what happened. Nobody cared if he was guilty. And I got deluged with hate-mail, almost all of it anonymous.
It was my first real understanding of liberalism. And every time Mumia comes up, I think of that day. Because this, too, is a perfect illustration of the hypocrisy and the hatred at the core of modern liberalism.
You guys just don’t get it. Whether Mumia murdered Faulkner is irrelevant. Or worse yet … it might even be a good thing if he is guilty. He offed a white cop.
That’s how liberals think.
If you’re looking for liberals to care about guilt or innocent, you’ll have to make the victim black and the killer white. Then they might care.
Professor Blather on March 27, 2008 at 3:35 PM
This logic is inverted. In truth, we have no right to keep a murderer alive. How do you apologize to the second, third, fourth victims because you were too squeemish to remove a proven killer from among the living. You are reluctant to play God? I say you cannot avoid playing God. Keep a killer alive and he is free to kill again and again. You kept him alive? You played God and said he could live and others had to die. That, you see, is the human condition. We have life and death decisions before us, and cannot avoid them — yet we must proceed with imperfect knowledge.
DocKen on March 27, 2008 at 3:35 PM
Thank you for your service.
Professor Blather on March 27, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Thank you, but not necessary. It was my honor and privilege to serve.
Trafalgar on March 27, 2008 at 3:43 PM
I’m not 100% married to either side of the argument, though I lean against the death penalty because of “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” How do you square this with the passage you quoted earlier? This is a sincere question; I’d like to learn more about what others think of the morality of the death penalty.
mikeyboss on March 27, 2008 at 3:49 PM
It’s Thou shall not murder. Murder is an illegal extra-judicial killing. Execution is not.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 4:01 PM
There are many biblical and religious arguements that can be brought into play on the death penalty. Most of them self-cancelling, as in “Thou shalt not kill” vs. “an eye for and eye”.
On the basis of the “Thou shalt not kill” arguement, any killing for any reason would be unjustified, including all wars. Whatever your position is on the current global war, many wars throughout history were undeniablly justified even though they resulted in the killing of thousands. War IS justified under certain circumstances, most particularly when a society or nation’s way of life is threatened. War also serves as a dterrent to others with an eye to disrupting the way of life of another nation or society. Taking that arguement to the death penalty, it can be justified (perhaps even supported) by the fact that vicious killers within our society do indeed pose a threat to our way of life. Similarly, the death penalty can also serve as a deterrent to others who want to, or don’t care if they, destroy our society.
I abhor killing, I’ve seen too much of it. But there are circumstances when the greater good is served by judicious (and swift) application of the death penalty.
Trafalgar on March 27, 2008 at 4:02 PM
the fact is that the phrase, ‘Human Rights Campaigner’ and talking about his murder charge IN THE SAME SENTENCE is crazy..
DaveC on March 27, 2008 at 4:03 PM
I bet this murderer would not be getting as much sympathy if the police officer he murdered was black.
SoulGlo on March 27, 2008 at 4:09 PM
How about we just deport him to France? He’s quite popular there. Let the French support him.
funky chicken on March 27, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I disagree. You see, the problem with liberals who decry the death penalty (especially for cop killers)and who set murderers on some philosophical pedestal is that they don’t see the police as black, white, asian, or anything but “The Man”, “government thugs”, or “the oppressors of society”. To them, killing a police officer, regardless of race or gender, is all part of he “struggle” against the oppressors.
There again, a liberal is just a conservative who hasn’t been robbed or shot at yet.
Trafalgar on March 27, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Actually, at Noah’s time, God established government by man. The wages of sin were death before Noah. In Hebrews, (probably) Paul said, “without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” That was the case from the beginning.
urbancenturion on March 27, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Why is this self canceling? “thou shalt not
killmurder” is a starting event. An eye for an eye is justice(response to first event). There are minor differences among the three time periods(Patriarchal, Mosaic and Christian) but all allow for government punishment for crimes. And limited vigilante justice was allowed in at least the Mosaic law.Corsair on March 27, 2008 at 5:03 PM
You’re absolutely correct if the premise is “Thou shalt not commit murder”. I was responding to the “Thou shalt not kill” (not “not murder”) arguement posted by another commenter. If one believes that the commandment is “Thou shalt not kill” it’s an absolute, but it is contradicted by such edicts as “an eye for an eye” and “Whosoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed.”
Trafalgar on March 27, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Let’s let the air out of this bag.
Johan Klaus on March 27, 2008 at 5:33 PM
If it was “kill” then the first thing Moses did when coming down from receiving the law violated it. He had those that sided with him at the worshiping of the golden calf go and kill the others – killing 3,000 people. Ex 32:26-28
Corsair on March 27, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Meh. I’m fine with the Death Penalty being overturned as long as it’s life in prison with no possibility of parole. Let him slowly rot within the confines of the putrid filth of a concrete and razor wire cesspool with other evil men, never again to set foot on the soil of good citizens as a free man.
To me, anyway, that’s a fate worse than death.
May he live a long long life confined within those prison walls as he watches the clock in his tiny cramped cell, stained with the permanent insufferable stench of unwashed sweaty male asscrack, croth rot, flatulence, decaying fungus covered feet, vomit, and feces, with no view of the world outside that cesspool, tick off the seconds of his evil life mercilessly, and very slowly.
SilverStar830 on March 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Life in prison used to mean life in prison.
Johan Klaus on March 27, 2008 at 5:44 PM
First of all, it is thou shall not murder, killing was prevalent in those times. God held in high esteem (if I can put mans words into a benevolents mouth) killers of evil.
So here is the path to enlightenment (little humor, “so you have that going for you” as Bill Murray says):
When you do wrong to someone, there are two way of forgiveness. One, through God’s grace, we can’t ask God what he is going to do, so we rely on #2…We ask forgiveness from the person(s) we have sinned against (as he commanded and I can give passages, but they are there). If he (she) does not forgive us, we are doomed.
There is only one commandant in the bible where we cannot ask the person for forgiveness (if we transgress against God, and ask, it shall be given), but if you kill someone, you must go to them to ask forgiveness. But where do you go? You cannot be forgiven for murder. That is why when these bombings or shootings take place, some local minister says “I forgive them”, hey, read the bible, you can’t forgive them. You may want to, but you can’t. This is not a riddle, this is a Commandant from God, purposely spelled out that way. Now, man is given the ability to rule over other men, Jesus never said, “Don’t rule over men, and don’t judge them by government standards” indeed it put Himself in that very predicament. Jesus respected the law of the Government of man…
The “turn your other cheek” or “eye for an eye” read those in context, or “give your man your cloak (or whatever)” Some of the most misused passages.
If you need biblical references I can dig them up, but I think you get the idea. You do wrong, you ask for forgiveness…save the state money, commit suicide, then go to the third cloud on the left, and ask forgiveness from the family you just murdered, and hope they give it to you, if not, go to hell.
right2bright on March 27, 2008 at 5:48 PM
But, that isn’t what happens. Once again, these made up fantasy scenarios people post that are suppose to be in lieu of the death penalty are b.s. Look at damn Richard Speck. Reduce his sentence to life and Mumia will eventually get the run of the prison, contact visits, a job, earn more money, etc. Don’t pretend or try to sell life in prison as worse than the death penalty. Life is exactly what he wants. And giving it to him is an insult to Daniel Faulkner and every law enforcement officer.
Blake on March 27, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Since he is still exhalimg CO2 call Al Gore’s pollution control company, and permanently stop the pollution.
Johan Klaus on March 27, 2008 at 8:14 PM
You want him Carbon Capped?
cool…
TheCulturalist on March 28, 2008 at 2:10 AM
I guess only those who are survived by Daniel Faulkner really know for sure. But you apparently have never been inside a state prison. I have, but not as an inmate, it’s been job related. No inmate in prison gets “the run of the prison”. Make no mistake, the prison guards run the damn prison. If an inmate ‘ran’ the prison, then he’d not be an inmate. Sure, he may get celebrity status INSIDE that cesspool. That and 50¢ will get him a cup of chickory and a snickers bar.
His “contact visits” are limited to attorney’s and the like. He gets no conjugal visits. He’s not even married. Life in prison, with a job sweeping floors or making license plates or whatever on the inside, is no ‘job’. He can write for rags outside the walls and make some money, but the family of his victim can always pursue a wrongful death suit and take any earnings he does make. But once again, only Daniel Faulkner’s surviving family can decide that too. They haven’t as yet. I’m sure his jolly band of reprobate supporters keeps money on his books anyway. Who cares. He can eat all the cup o’ noodles he can handle. I hope he chokes on it.
In your mind, his death at the hands of the justice system may bring some solice for you. I’m sure that if the family of Mr. Faulkner cared to fiercly vent their frustration on national tv news, they could, and would. But they haven’t. So be that as it may, while he will not be subjected to the ultimate penalty, he’s in a state prison and no matter how successfully he manges to eek out his existence in that prison, he’ll never legitimately exist to anyone but himself and his diseased fan club. He’s a caged animal, and shall remain so for as long as he shall live.
SilverStar830 on March 28, 2008 at 5:11 AM
His widow, Maureen Faulkner, has granted numerous interviews and written many op-ed pieces. In 2007, she published a book on the case. Her feelings on Wesley Cook are hardly a secret.
Well, you would be wrong. Apparently, you guess a lot instead of relying on verified facts for your arguments.
Currently, Penn does not have conjugal visits. However, it doesn’t prevent them from starting them in the future. If he is moved to general pop, as you are advocating, he will have, or eventually have, contact visits with everyone on his approved visitor list. Currently, he has the right to get married.
Oh, yes it is a job. Scoff all you want but jobs give people’s lives meaning. You also ignore the fact that there are jobs were they teach, perform office work, aid the chaplain, do contract work for private businesses, etc. The point is that they have a job and mobility and do not stay in their cell 24/7 like people falsely claim.
There are time limits on wrongful death suits that have long passed. Mrs. Faulkner has attempted to use the Son of Sam laws to block Cook from financially benefiting from book advances but the laws at the time had constitutional challenges and had to be rewritten. However, Mrs. Faulkner doesn’t want the money, she wants his lies to stop being published which will continue to be published if you have your way and he is not executed.
Now you’re projecting. He was sentenced to be executed. I want the law followed. You don’t. You are the one making wild claims to rationalize your false belief that his life will be so much worse in general pop. than if we followed the law. It won’t be. The fact that he has fought execution for so many years should be a clue to you.
In your mind his widow is not family? Mrs. Faulkner gives as many interviews, nationally and locally, as she can get. She has written a book. She has worked tirelessly on behalf of her late husband and all law enforcement officers. But, in your opinion that is not enough. It has nothing to do with what the family wants but what you want.
He was sentenced to death and should be put to death. So be that as it may, none of your arguments and antideath penalty spin carry any weight. Just admit you’re against the death penalty and like his supporters will say anything to prevent the state from carrying out the sentence.
Blake on March 28, 2008 at 8:44 AM
I’d call him a dung heap but that would be an insult to dung.
srhoades on March 28, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Wow, Blake, I am impressed, great measured response. I don’t think you will hear back from Silver.
You kind of ripped him a new one.
right2bright on March 28, 2008 at 8:57 AM
I have no desire to rip anyone a new anything. My heart goes out to Mrs. Faulkner and other victim’s of crimes. I am simply sick of the lies.
Blake on March 28, 2008 at 1:25 PM