I don’t know if you will get this, but money and opportunities are passed on from generation to generation.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I get it, but this isn’t necessarily true. Each generation handles ‘wealth’ and/or property differently. Some continue to to live well, others squander it. And being poor is not and indicator that in the US you will remain poor – there is ample proof of that.

My family has been involved in geneology for the past 24 years. We’ve gone back centuries, and we have hundreds (if not thousands) of personal stories of our ancestors. All you have to do is look at some of the wills in our collection to realize that our so-called ‘wealth’ as whites did not get passed down.

As a result, my dad was the 7th of 7 kids in a farming town in Middle America…you think that’s ‘wealthy’? My mom, even though she was the oldest, couldn’t afford to pay for 1 semester (one) of college in 1955. Isn’t that when segregation made it easy for ‘whitey’ to afford everything because they were ‘wealthy’? So why didn’t my parents have the money when they were supposed to be ‘taking it all’ from blacks?

However, by the time of my generation, I was raised middle-class to upper middle-class because my dad worked his ass off. But you know what? I became poor again after college, because it wasn’t my money!!! I’ve since had to work my ass off to get where I am.

Do you get that? I’m not trying to be mean (I’m just obviously very blunt), but many times wealth isn’t passed on to the next generation…that’s my point.

I guess I’ll just make a couple comments.

“7 generations removed”-SPolitics
“distant relatives”-fogw

Sticking with the analogy, I realize we won’t be here to see if I’m right or not, but I believe in 100 years Jews will still be affected by the Holocaust as a group. I do not think these things vanish as quickly as people here do. My wife is a research psychologist, and I have learned a lot from her. I also think that people in this country 100 years from now might accept idea that the Holocaust can still affect the Jews easier than they can accept the idea of slavery affecting succeeding generations. I also think that even if it is not affecting Jews psychologically, it will still be used as an excuse for taking other peoples land.

stunts Roosevelt pulled

I know. I am no fan of Roosevelt, believe me.

I reject out of hand the suggestion that we need to point to Europe for examples of how we should conduct our own affairs.

It seems that Americans always know better. On question after question, it seems to be Americans on one side, the rest of the world on the other. You see it in the UN all the time. Votes of 163-2 (US and Israel). Do you really believe that only the US and Israel know reality, and the rest of the world does not? You must have great self-esteem. And it’s not just 163-2, because a large and growing percentage of the population with the “2″ countries is beggining to see what the other 163 other countries see, and they don’t like it.
One of two things is happening. Either a small and shrinking percentage in the “2″ countries know what’s really going on, and the rest of the people in the world are nuts (may due to some undetected virus), or else the 163 countries (and a growing percentage of those in the “2″ countries) are right, and a tiny percentage of those in the world cannot see reality. This may be due them being extreme apologists and accepting whatever propaganda they can find in order to preserve the idea that they live in the best country in the world because it is more comfortable for them to live their life believing that.

Exit question: Big winner — Chris Cox?

Bing.

I said before that Crist seems like a Grade A doofus. During McCain’s Florida victory speech, this smarmy dope stood in front of the camera the whole time head-bobbing and mugging until I wanted to puke.

He stays in Florida, where they (inexplicably) seem to like him.

And following the reasoning on this thread, what harm did Holocaust survivors endure anyway?

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Only sixty years of agony, heartache and nightmares, recalling how their loved ones; mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, brothers and sisters were carted away before their very eyes to be gassed and burned to ashes by the Nazis. They weren’t distant relatives who were taken away in chains to a new world hundreds of years ago. They were their next of kin, brutally murdered, slaughtered like sheep and experimented on like lab rats.

That’s all.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Ugh! I just typed a long reply and it didn’t go through. I don’t have the energy to retype it all and you’re probably gone by now anyway. I’ll just say I disagree.

p.s. The Japanese who were detained were paid reparations, in part because their property was seized. The Italians and Germans who were detained were not.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

I interpreted your comment as saying inequality could easily be rectified if only we were not so immoral. I thought that was absurd, hence my comment. If I misinterpreted you, my apologies. But you seem to be implying that black students don’t do as well as Asians because they have historical psychological scars. I think it’s because African American culture does not value education and success as highly as Asian cultures do, and in fact, black kids who do excel in school are called “Tommies” (Uncle Toms) and sell-outs.

I think you’re misinterpreting the comments on this board. People are not saying that slaves should not have received reparations — their 40 acres and a mule. People are saying that it doesn’t make sense for our generation (who didn’t participate in slavery) to pay reparations to the descendents of slaves — 7 generations removed — who were not slaves.

With regard to your Holocaust question: 1) Not only are the payees still alive, but so are the payers. 2) It was a specific event that happened 60 years ago, not a global practice dating back centuries. 3) If the money should go to victims and isn’t, that’s not an example we should follow. 4) If it’s not about paying money to the victims, but about recognizing what’s happened, then it’s already been taken care of with Affirmative Action and race-based scholarships, not to mention the founding of Liberia. 5) (And my favorite answer to your question) I reject out of hand the suggestion that we need to point to Europe for examples of how we should conduct our own affairs.

Also, the Japanese were paid reparations and part of the justification was because their property was siezed. The Italians and Germans, who were also detained by Roosevelt, were not paid. In fact, Clinton refused to apologize to Italians for thsi while President — around the time he was in Africa apologizing for slavery. (As a side note, people who bitch about Gitmo should really read up on the stunts Roosevelt pulled).

psychological history

babble chunter gobbledeegook

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 6:59 PM

It’s not about genetics. It’s about culture and values. I have a buddy who teaches Health in high school. He says he has Asian students who can barely speak English but get straight A’s. If what you said above is right, this is only because of a racially-motivated consipiracy that tips the scales so they can succeed — an advantage that needs to be “rectified.” I prefer to think it’s because they’re working harder.

You said that the reparations don’t seem to trickle down to Holocaust survivors. That is nonsense. Who’s getting it.

Here’s a long answer. The short answer, from a Holocaust survivor, is “Israel took the money.”

No descendents of victims receive reparations.

I guess that’s the lesson for the next country that wants to enslave or wipe out a group of people: make sure there are no survivors. If Hitler had succeeded in killing all the Jews, Germany would not have had to pay reparations 50 years later. The German descendants have to pay for Hitler’s failure.

Someone else asked how many more centuries will it take before the deleterious effects you mention are overcome. Got an answer?

This will certainly be incomprehensible to everyone here, but I believe that humans are basically the same, and no race or group is genetically superior in any way to any other. I do not believe in the ubermenschen idea. If two groups are unequal within the same area, there is a reason. Native Americans still do not have equality, so the effects last at least several centuries in that case. It doesn’t have to be that way. We could have rectified the situation centuries ago, decades ago, or tomorrow. But it won’t happen for a long time judging by the moral state of this country right now.

It never stops. There is always a legitimate, historical grievance. There are many whites who have no connection whatsoever to Slavery or Jim Crow, who were poor themselves. Let alone Hispanic, Caribbean, South American, African, etc. immigrants. Is it fair to tax a Nigerian origin American citizen for slavery? What about someone of Irish ancestry?

Yes Slavery was bad. No, no one alive or in living memory had anything to do with it. Reparations IMHO is a divisive, PC-punishment of Whites by rich white yuppies seeking moral superiority and status allied with unscrupulous Black “leaders” such as Sharpton etc.

Far greater good would be done by providing proper, secure policing, jailing gang members, enhancing personal freedom of people in Black ghettos (free from crime and assault), encouraging education, hard work, personal responsibility, and monogamous marriage. What Bill Cosby prescribes.

I will, however, support reparations for ALL FORMER SLAVES. In fact, I will personally write a check from my own savings account to any former southern US slave, who was liberated by Lincoln, who shows up at my door! These people really do deserve reparations. And I support it.
Gartrip on March 26, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Cute argument, but there is a problem. There are former slaves in this country–mostly from muslim countries. These former slaves don’t need a hand-out. They may need some help getting their life together. Let’s not corrupt their opportunity for a decent life by giving any approval of reparation/grievance culture–even in jest.

Had slaves been allowed to keep even a small fraction of the tremendous wealth they created over a century ago, instead of rich white people…

Nonsense. Sherman burnt all that wealth to the ground.

Let the 1st slave step forward and receive his gift.

I will, however, support reparations for ALL FORMER SLAVES. In fact, I will personally write a check from my own savings account to any former southern US slave, who was liberated by Lincoln, who shows up at my door! These people really do deserve reparations. And I support it.

As for the rest: NOT…ONE…PENNY! Get a freakin’ job and shut up.

Does that mean I’m owed something now? (/sarc…just me being owed part)

Seriously, WHEN & WHERE does this end???

Descendancy would need to be determined on both sides, right? Reparations would only be proper if only paid to the descendants of slaves and if only paid by the descendants of slave owners.

If you want to dun me for my slaveholding ancestors, then I think it’s only fair that you pay me for my (slaveholding) ancestor who was one of the authors of the Constitution. All you people who are descended from people who forgot to wipe their feet when they entered this country owe me a lot because somebody who I share .006% DNA with signed his name to a piece of paper 220 years ago. After, there would have been less incentive for the “huddled masses yearning to breathe free” to come here if he hadn’t done that.

And Delaware owes me for putting Caesar Rodney on their quarter. I’m sure I can come up with more grievances; by my calculations, every person on the planet owes me infinity billion dollars.

My family came from Germany in the 1880′s, settled in Ohio. Never held slaves, or lynched a black man. Tell me again why I owe money to any black person?

Great quote from Lincoln.