Charlie Crist “open” to reparations for slavery? Update: Portman for VP?

posted at 2:50 pm on March 26, 2008 by Allahpundit

A helpful reminder from an unlikely quarter that the new national conversation on race isn’t so new. Presumably Obama himself would be cool to this idea, believing as he does that white grievances are a function of economic insecurity and, therefore, would likely be intensified by massive compulsory redistributions of wealth based on race. And indeed he was cool to it during his senate run in 2004. Might be worth checking again.

As for Crist, if he’s angling for the VP slot, this is a mighty interesting way to do it:

As a black senator openly wept, the Florida Senate issued an apology Wednesday morning for the state’s ”shameful” history in enslaving black people and passing laws that called for savage lashings and even the nailing of their ears to posts for crimes like burglary…

The resolution stops short of calling for reparations for descendants of slaves, though Republican Gov. Charlie Crist said after the vote that he was open to the idea “if we can determine descendancy, certainly.”

Exit question: Big winner — Chris Cox? I don’t know much about him and I’m skeptical that he’s going to put California in play, but “hardcore conservative” and “omnicompetent” do have a certain ring to them…

Update: Er, who’s Rob Portman?


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Ah, you don’t like any of the examples cited. Perhaps you meant to say that only Africa didn’t benefit from its colonial phase.

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 3:46 PM

No, my position would be that all of them suffered from it, but especially Africa. Seriously though have you graduated from highschool? You seem like one of those 17-18 year olds who gets all hopped up over “reverse racism” and “affirmative action” when really your failings are because you’re stupid.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 3:53 PM

According to Lincoln, slavery has already been paid for by this country. It was called the Civil War.

“If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope–fervently do we pray–that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether” — Abraham Lincoln, March 4, 1865

Cicero43 on March 26, 2008 at 3:54 PM

How do you feel about the billions of dollars that European countries have paid for Holocaust reparations? I doubt if more than 0.1% of them were involved with the killing of Jews in WWII. And as for those receiving the reparations, not much seems to be trickling down to the Holocaust survivors, a third of which live in poverty.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM

Holocaust: 60 Years Ago.
Civil War: 160 Years Ago.

How many former slaves are still living? How many of their children are still living?

And see nnaus.

amerpundit on March 26, 2008 at 3:55 PM

160=140.

amerpundit on March 26, 2008 at 3:55 PM

We need to have the Illegal aliens make a condition of their amnesty that THEY pay reparations to the black community.

ThackerAgency on March 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM

You seem like one of those 17-18 year olds

when really your failings are because you’re stupid.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 3:53 PM

That’s what you resort to when you’re losing the debate — name-calling and ad hominem attacks.
- Michelle Malkin

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 3:58 PM

I say we pay the reparations.

Dig up the grave of every known slave owner, rifle through what’s left of his pockets and divide up the total equally among all the slaves still living.

Fair enough?

fogw on March 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Although, A buddy of mine, Wiley, who incidentally is Black, had a great idea: Set up right next to the check cashing store and sell rims and other items of bling and make a fortune!

Swinehound on March 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Since most Africans are in abject poverty, I think most African-Americans would own the government something.

SPCOlympics on March 26, 2008 at 3:25 PM

A related good point is that the descendants of American slaves–even the ones who are still suffering in poverty–enjoy a higher standard of living (simply by virtue of living in the United States of America) than probably 95% of the rest of the black people in the world. Even our poorest people (of any color) are far wealthier and enjoy a much higher standard of living than the poor of most other nations. Our African American poor also have a chance of getting out of poverty, while most of their genetic relatives still living in Africa have no such hope. At the risk of sounding like Geraldine Ferrarro, they are in fact lucky that their ancestors were brought here, regardless of the circumstances–not so lucky for their ancestors, who actually endured slavery, but lucky for any descendants born free on American soil. It is extremely difficult for Americans to keep this kind of thing in perspective, I think. We simply don’t realize how much better off we are–even our poorest people–than most of the rest of the world. We have problems, and we still have a ways to go on the issue of full equality of opportunity, but this is not a bad place to be born when all is said and done.

Spend some time browsing the CIA World Factbook, comparing U.S. economic numbers to any other country’s in the world. For example, Kenya has a per capita GDP of $1,600 per year, compared to the U.S. per capita GDP of $46,000. Kenya’s unemployment rate is 40%, compared to the U.S. unemployment rate of 4.6%. The percent of Kenyans living below the poverty line is 50%, while the percent of Americans in poverty is just 12%. Check any country with majority black populations, and the numbers will be similar–not because their people are black, but because they are undeveloped countries whose populations simply don’t have the opportunities and resources we have. Only a handful of western European countries come close to our prosperity, and even they fall short.

I reiterate–it is an extremely fortunate thing to be born in the United States, no matter how that came to be! Ask the people who are literally risking their lives to get here every single day.

aero on March 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM

I’m descended from 20th century Swiss immigrants. Those of you who have dogs in this fight slap each other silly and pay each other reparations, but leave me out of it…I’m neutral.

James on March 26, 2008 at 4:00 PM

fogw on March 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Deal.

amerpundit on March 26, 2008 at 4:01 PM

James on March 26, 2008 at 4:00 PM

You get to pay them, too! Why? We’re not totally sure, but we’re pretty sure you owe something to uh…the relatives of people you never did anything to.

amerpundit on March 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

That’s what you resort to when you’re losing the debate — name-calling and ad hominem attacks.
- Michelle Malkin

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 3:58 PM

I’d love to continue the debate, I’m just curious as to what kind of education his highly nuanced, informed views on the history of colonialism and slavery have come from. Something tells me the “they’re better off than they would be in Africa” arrive at their views from frustration and personal failings rather than through research and rational discussion.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

You seem like one of those 17-18 year olds who gets all hopped up over “reverse racism” and “affirmative action” when really your failings are because you’re stupid.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 3:53 PM

I don’t see what my age has to do with it. You didn’t support your assertions very well. I took them apart and you got mad. If others disagree with what I just said, I suppose they’ll stick up for you.

The fact that I’m still a HS student shouldn’t embarrass you . As with all people, Africans do better in the US than anywhere else. Think how much worse off you’d be elsewhere! You wouldn’t even have the internet to troll.

Also, you never answered my HS question from before. Have you voluntarily paid your reparations to the Tulsa folks you mentioned before. Why wait for the gov’t to order you?

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:03 PM

Reparations? Let’s tally the welfare totals and call it a wash!

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 3:45 PM

A good friend of my parents is a Polish Jew who survived Auschwitz. She is not entitled to a dime, nor do I think she would ever accept one.

I do believe that heirs have a right to property claims in a situation where the property was seized as it was. Art work is slowly getting back to the rightful owners after all these years.

Pam on March 26, 2008 at 4:04 PM

My family never owned slaves, so count me out.

cannonball on March 26, 2008 at 4:06 PM

No, my position would be that all of them suffered from it, but especially Africa.

Why is it that Africa suffered more? Looks like he was saying that Africa suffered more (and is still suffering now)because of it’s own domestic leadership than because of any colonial forces.

Do you really think Africa has suffered more than the Native Americans tribes, the Aztecs, the Incas?

Sorry, bud, you’re the one acting like a stupid tennager.

reaganaut on March 26, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Persons of slavery have undergone many transformations. Some more than others.
Obama promotes American victimization of people of color so that he may lead his people to freedom. We’ll see.
Meanwhile, America is largely color-blind. Repeat after me: ….

Randy

williars on March 26, 2008 at 4:09 PM

I agree with the idea to abolish welfare once and for all after paying reparations. that accomplishes so much since welfare is the new slavery.

Add up what 10 years of federal welfare costs and put it in the Fund. Set a cut off date to determine every proven descendant of a slave. Divide the Fund and cut the checks the same day the constitutional amendment is effective which forever prohibits welfare payments.

Problem freaking solved.

JustTruth101 on March 26, 2008 at 4:10 PM

We also need to track down the salve SELLERS in Africa, those that rounded up the slaves that were sold to the slave traders, we sue those countries and put that money in the fund as well, less the attorney’s fees of course…once you get attroneys fees involved, the dem’s will go for it!

JustTruth101 on March 26, 2008 at 4:11 PM

I’d love to continue the debate, I’m just curious as to what kind of education his highly nuanced, informed views on the history of colonialism and slavery have come from.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

What kind of education does he have?

I dunno.

Probably enough not to say things like “Seriously though have you graduated from highschool?” and “You seem like one of those 17-18 year olds” and “when really your failings are because you’re stupid”.

Probably enough of an education not to do that.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:13 PM

Rob Portman? eh. who?

funky chicken on March 26, 2008 at 4:18 PM

What’s so wrong with Sanford?

funky chicken on March 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM

Thank you MB4. I’d like to buy you a beer for that, but I’m underage. Would a Dr. Pepper do?

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM

I’d like to buy you a beer for that, but I’m underage.

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM

(snicker) It’s so nice to have you kids participating in politics. ;-)

aero on March 26, 2008 at 4:25 PM

Thank you MB4. I’d like to buy you a beer for that, but I’m underage. Would a Dr. Pepper do?

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM

Why don’t just you wait till you turn 21, then buy me a beer.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:28 PM

JiangxiDad:

receive NO reparations because they emigrated to Israel after ‘53.

I guess the Holocaust survivors who didn’t realize that they needed to go firectly to Israel after WWII in order to get help are simply out of luck

emigrated there from the USSR

And Holocaust survivors from communist countries don’t deserve any money either. I get it.

Ameripundit:

Holocaust: 60 Years Ago. Civil War: 140 Years Ago.

I don’t know if you will get this, but money and opportunities are passed on from generation to generation. People with money buy property, save money, and send their kids to school, and the children benefit from these things. Being born into poverty greatly increases your chances of living a life of poverty as well, and not necessarily because your a lazy ni$%er, which is what many on this thread seem to believe. Had slaves been allowed to keep even a small fraction of the tremendous wealth they created over a century ago, instead of rich white people profiting from it while sitting on their ass, then they would have been able to buy property, amass wealth, send their kids to school, etc. This would have benifitted succeeding generations greatly, including those alive now. The lives of those alive now would be very different if their ancestors were not slaves. The effects of slavery do not disappear the second the last slave died. Hence, reparations.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

The reparations gig is disgusting! How on earth any serious politician could even mention it in public and get away with it is just ridiculous.

If Crist really is for this, then the people of Fla should recall him immediately and send a VERY LOUD message to the rest of America.

If the govt ever does adopt reparations, then who’s next? Women, gays, hispanics, Native Americans? Yeah, thought so. It would be a total mess.

Off Topic (sort of): the fact that the media regularly floats the name of Crist as a potential VP for McCain is equally laughable and WE ALL KNOW WHY. Of course, that’s the point. The MSM selected McCain as the nominee by encouraging independents in New Hampshire and Florida to vote against Romney. McCain isn’t liked and his nomination will likely supress turn out.
And just in case it doesn’t, let’s really screw the Republicans up by convincing McCain to choose Crist, which would guarantee civil war in the party and the lowest turn out in electoral history!

Gartrip on March 26, 2008 at 4:36 PM

Where’s my reparation check for serfdom?

LimeyGeek on March 26, 2008 at 4:36 PM

I think Charley has been listening to too many of Rev Wrights sermons.

meci on March 26, 2008 at 4:38 PM

This would have benifitted succeeding generations greatly, including those alive now.

Probably not.

The lives of those alive now would be very different if their ancestors were not slaves.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

If their ancestors were not slaves they would never have been born.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:40 PM

sure as long as you adjust for the damages done to Africans by colonialism i.e. loss of natural resources, infrastructure entirely geared towards extraction of said resources, government oppression, resulting dissillusionment with govt etc. The whole “they’re better off being enslaved for 300 some years, lynched and de jure discriminated against for another 100 then if we had left them alone” is tired and frighteningly ignorant.

crr6 on March 26, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Help me out here, crr6, since you’re so well educated. Exactly which African countries were colonized by the United States? Your argument that the offset would have to be adjusted for the damage done to the African continent by colonization overlooks one very relevant and material fact: the United States was not the party responsible for causing that damage. Or are you suggesting that white U.S. taxpayers should also be held financially responsible for the long-ago sins of various European nations?

Also, as other posters have pointed out, if you seriously believe that the average black on the continent of Africa today lives a better life than the average U.S. black, then you’re the one who is “frighteningly ignorant.”

AZCoyote on March 26, 2008 at 4:41 PM

I don’t know if you will get this, but money and opportunities are passed on from generation to generation.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

Just how much money do you think that Paris Hilton will pass on?

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:43 PM

There is no feasible way of calculating who, historically, would have earned what, saved what, invested in what, and no way to make definite statements about how this would have benefitted heirs. It is incalculable.

I, for one, will never pay a penny to any negro. I am sick of this pathetic pity-party. That there are negroes that are seriously holding their hands out for reparations (when they were not slaves, their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents were not slaves) says a great deal about the pitiful state of a certain faction of the negro community.

Quit the whining and grow some dignity.

No reparations. Ever.

LimeyGeek on March 26, 2008 at 4:43 PM

How about we track down the descendants of the negro slave traders that sold their brethren to the whites?

Ultimately, aren’t they the root of all this?

Oh, I forgot, they don’t have the kind of money that whitey does.

Losers.

LimeyGeek on March 26, 2008 at 4:45 PM

What percentage of “Black” Americans have white slave holders as ancestors?

20% ? 30% ? 40% ?

What percentage of “White” Americans have white slave holders as ancestors?

5%? 10% ? 15% ?

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:47 PM

JiangxiDad:

receive NO reparations because they emigrated to Israel after ‘53.

I guess the Holocaust survivors who didn’t realize that they needed to go firectly to Israel after WWII in order to get help are simply out of luck

emigrated there from the USSR

And Holocaust survivors from communist countries don’t deserve any money either. I get it.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

Actually, I hadn’t commented on whether they should or shouldn’t. I just said that they weren’t receiving any at all, so I don’t understand how their financial situation is related to the topic of reparations.

You said that the reparations don’t seem to trickle down to Holocaust survivors. That is nonsense. Who’s getting it.

As to whether they should,IMO, the USSR did enough to help the Jews enslaved by the Nazis. Without their contribution, I think Germany would have won the war.

I don’t get the reasoning behind the 1953 thing. I just repeated what the article said. It may have something to do with those people receiving old-age pension benefits from the Israeli government.

In any case, we are talking about actual survivors, very few of whom are still alive. The issue of war reparations for Jewish victims of the Nazis will reach its natural conclusion in the next few years, and will fade from memory.

No descendents of victims receive reparations.

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM

And where, exactly, would the descendents of Marie-Therese Coincoin fit into this “reparations” picture, I wonder?

http://www.preservenatchitoches.org/?page_id=6

reine.de.tout on March 26, 2008 at 4:52 PM

According to the research, one of Obama’s great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama’s great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:55 PM

Had slaves been allowed to keep even a small fraction of the tremendous wealth they created over a century ago, instead of rich white people profiting from it while sitting on their ass, then they would have been able to buy property, amass wealth, send their kids to school, etc. This would have benifitted succeeding generations greatly, including those alive now. The lives of those alive now would be very different if their ancestors were not slaves. The effects of slavery do not disappear the second the last slave died. Hence, reparations.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I think that is true. However, most Americans have only to go back a generation or two when their ancestors came here without a penny in their pocket. So slavery can’t be the only reason.
AP posted a clip the other day of a Harlem minister furious at his congregation (and Obama and his white whoring mother and randy Daddy) warning that soon Black people here will be getting their paychecks from Mexicans.

Someone else asked how many more centuries will it take before the deleterious effects you mention are overcome. Got an answer?

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:57 PM

According to the research, one of Obama’s great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama’s great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 4:55 PM

I think Obama said in his I Have A Scheme Speech that his wife’s family were slaveowners??

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:58 PM

I think Obama said in his I Have A Scheme Speech that his wife’s family were slaveowners??

JiangxiDad on March 26, 2008 at 4:58 PM

Make him pay.

MB4 on March 26, 2008 at 5:00 PM

The lives of those alive now would be very different if their ancestors were not slaves. The effects of slavery do not disappear the second the last slave died. Hence, reparations.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

African Americans living in America are not slaves, nor were their parents or grandparents. How they were brought here, sold by their tribal leaders, bought by white men looking to make a buck from their blood sweat and tears, and chained below deck in hundreds of slave ships was deplorable to say the least.

Today’s African Americans would be the beneficiaries of any reparations. Yet they find themselves, today, living in the most prosperous nation in the world affording wealth and opportunity to all who are fortunate enough to live here, to all who make an effort to make something of their lives rather than beg for handouts or stand in line for their welfare checks.

They have far more opportunity here and now than the millions of black Africans living in squalor, dying of thirst and starving for nourishment in countries ruled by fascists, who even in today’s world are more interested in stuffing their own pockets then feeding their own people.

America the Beautiful. Not a bad place to live.

fogw on March 26, 2008 at 5:09 PM

The lives of those alive now would be very different if their ancestors were not slaves.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

That is correct. Most of them would still be living in Africa in crushing poverty, with absolutely NO HOPE whatsoever of ever escaping that poverty.

I also agree with your basic premise, which is that the descendants of any black Africans who immigrated to what would become the United States of their own free will, in the absence of slavery, would probably be much better off than many of the descendants of slaves are today because they would have had the ability to accumulate wealth and pass that on to their children like the descendants of other races and cultures did. Irish and Chinese immigrants suffered terrible prejudice and mistreatment during their big waves of immigration here, and they collectively overcame such barriers to find success in America within a generation or two. I’m sure the same would have been true for African immigrants as well, if slavery had not been a factor in their arrival.

But really, we would probably just have a miniscule black population today, as most Africans in the early days of the United States could not have afforded ocean passage to emigrate to America on their own. Nor do I think most would have been motivated to do it. To this day, we get fewer immigrants from Africa than from most other regions of the world.

aero on March 26, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Pay the reparations, sky is the limit, any level you like. Then turn around and charge Islam that total plus costs for being the original slavers. Seize their foreign assets and their oil.

BL@KBIRD on March 26, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Cicero43 on March 26, 2008 at 3:54 PM

Great quote from Lincoln.

INC on March 26, 2008 at 5:16 PM

I think a levy on the descendants of those in Africa who rounded up their weaker brethren and sold them to slavers is in order, here.

My family came from Germany in the 1880′s, settled in Ohio. Never held slaves, or lynched a black man. Tell me again why I owe money to any black person?

Harry Schell on March 26, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Descendancy would need to be determined on both sides, right? Reparations would only be proper if only paid to the descendants of slaves and if only paid by the descendants of slave owners.

If you want to dun me for my slaveholding ancestors, then I think it’s only fair that you pay me for my (slaveholding) ancestor who was one of the authors of the Constitution. All you people who are descended from people who forgot to wipe their feet when they entered this country owe me a lot because somebody who I share .006% DNA with signed his name to a piece of paper 220 years ago. After, there would have been less incentive for the “huddled masses yearning to breathe free” to come here if he hadn’t done that.

And Delaware owes me for putting Caesar Rodney on their quarter. I’m sure I can come up with more grievances; by my calculations, every person on the planet owes me infinity billion dollars.

Ha We on March 26, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Gee, I only had one ancestor who owned slaves…and four who fought, bled, and died in the Civil War (to the best of my recollection).

Does that mean I’m owed something now? (/sarc…just me being owed part)

Seriously, WHEN & WHERE does this end???

Miss_Anthrope on March 26, 2008 at 5:28 PM

I am all for reparations as long as they take the money and leave, leave for good and never come back and sign away rights for any offspring to come back… A better time for that would have been during the dot.com boom, when we could have paid several hundred thousand per to clean house of all the whiners. the other caveat, if you don’t take the offer, race-baiting ends, period – I am pretty sure that the smart folks would choose to stay…

rgranger on March 26, 2008 at 5:33 PM

The logic of reparations has never made sense. I am a southerner. My mother’s family is from SC and they were too poor to own slaves and my father’s family was from Ohio and West Virginia and none of them ever owned slaves either. So my tax money is going to go to a bunch of people who were never slaves themselves??? Geeez. What idiot came up with that scheme? Jessie Jackson?

I will, however, support reparations for ALL FORMER SLAVES. In fact, I will personally write a check from my own savings account to any former southern US slave, who was liberated by Lincoln, who shows up at my door! These people really do deserve reparations. And I support it.

As for the rest: NOT…ONE…PENNY! Get a freakin’ job and shut up.

Gartrip on March 26, 2008 at 5:51 PM

We need to pay reparations to the all former slaves because everyone else in the world has it easy.

Let the 1st slave step forward and receive his gift.

Wade on March 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM

The check is in the mail. Don’t spend it all in once place.

Hog Wild on March 26, 2008 at 6:08 PM

Had slaves been allowed to keep even a small fraction of the tremendous wealth they created over a century ago, instead of rich white people…

Nonsense. Sherman burnt all that wealth to the ground.

tommylotto on March 26, 2008 at 6:15 PM

I will, however, support reparations for ALL FORMER SLAVES. In fact, I will personally write a check from my own savings account to any former southern US slave, who was liberated by Lincoln, who shows up at my door! These people really do deserve reparations. And I support it.
Gartrip on March 26, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Cute argument, but there is a problem. There are former slaves in this country–mostly from muslim countries. These former slaves don’t need a hand-out. They may need some help getting their life together. Let’s not corrupt their opportunity for a decent life by giving any approval of reparation/grievance culture–even in jest.

thuja on March 26, 2008 at 6:44 PM

If we pay reparations for Slavery, will we also pay the descendants of those killed on the Union side in the Civil War? What about victims of anti-Chinese riots/pogroms in California and other places in the Old West? What about descendants of Irish Gangsters hanged by the Committee of Vigilance in the 1850′s in San Francisco?

It never stops. There is always a legitimate, historical grievance. There are many whites who have no connection whatsoever to Slavery or Jim Crow, who were poor themselves. Let alone Hispanic, Caribbean, South American, African, etc. immigrants. Is it fair to tax a Nigerian origin American citizen for slavery? What about someone of Irish ancestry?

Yes Slavery was bad. No, no one alive or in living memory had anything to do with it. Reparations IMHO is a divisive, PC-punishment of Whites by rich white yuppies seeking moral superiority and status allied with unscrupulous Black “leaders” such as Sharpton etc.

Far greater good would be done by providing proper, secure policing, jailing gang members, enhancing personal freedom of people in Black ghettos (free from crime and assault), encouraging education, hard work, personal responsibility, and monogamous marriage. What Bill Cosby prescribes.

whiskey_199 on March 26, 2008 at 6:50 PM

JiangxiDad:

You said that the reparations don’t seem to trickle down to Holocaust survivors. That is nonsense. Who’s getting it.

Here’s a long answer. The short answer, from a Holocaust survivor, is “Israel took the money.”

No descendents of victims receive reparations.

I guess that’s the lesson for the next country that wants to enslave or wipe out a group of people: make sure there are no survivors. If Hitler had succeeded in killing all the Jews, Germany would not have had to pay reparations 50 years later. The German descendants have to pay for Hitler’s failure.

Someone else asked how many more centuries will it take before the deleterious effects you mention are overcome. Got an answer?

This will certainly be incomprehensible to everyone here, but I believe that humans are basically the same, and no race or group is genetically superior in any way to any other. I do not believe in the ubermenschen idea. If two groups are unequal within the same area, there is a reason. Native Americans still do not have equality, so the effects last at least several centuries in that case. It doesn’t have to be that way. We could have rectified the situation centuries ago, decades ago, or tomorrow. But it won’t happen for a long time judging by the moral state of this country right now.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 6:59 PM

Crist = tool
Oh, what the hell. He pushed through an insurance Ponzi scheme that will bankrupt his state the next time the wind blows hard in Florida. He’s in the screw-it-up business.

Sugar Land on March 26, 2008 at 7:17 PM

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 6:59 PM

It’s not about genetics. It’s about culture and values. I have a buddy who teaches Health in high school. He says he has Asian students who can barely speak English but get straight A’s. If what you said above is right, this is only because of a racially-motivated consipiracy that tips the scales so they can succeed — an advantage that needs to be “rectified.” I prefer to think it’s because they’re working harder.

Spolitics on March 26, 2008 at 8:28 PM

Spolitics:
Asians do not have the psychological history that African Americans do in this country. This is getting into an area that’s impossible to address in a blog.
I only wanted to ask why reparations are acceptable for Holocaust survivors and not slaves. I find that answer that Holocaust survivors are still living to be unsatisfying. It’s not like the survivors got the money anyway. Israel did. And following the reasoning on this thread, what harm did Holocaust survivors endure anyway? By definition, they were not killed. And we know that only the actual recipient of the harm done deserves the money. The 6 million that really deserve it are dead. So the survivors spent a few years in a camp? And the European countries pay billions? Japanese spent time in camps in the US as well. Where’s their money? (Again, these remarks are not mine, but using the logic I see on this thread.) If the European countries knew that they only had to wait another decade or two in order for all the Holocaust survivors to die, they could have escaped payment? Had all the survivors been dead, they would have paid anyway. They realize that the issue has more to do with acknowledging what happened, and is not just about the money.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

psychological history

babble chunter gobbledeegook

LimeyGeek on March 26, 2008 at 9:10 PM

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

I interpreted your comment as saying inequality could easily be rectified if only we were not so immoral. I thought that was absurd, hence my comment. If I misinterpreted you, my apologies. But you seem to be implying that black students don’t do as well as Asians because they have historical psychological scars. I think it’s because African American culture does not value education and success as highly as Asian cultures do, and in fact, black kids who do excel in school are called “Tommies” (Uncle Toms) and sell-outs.

I think you’re misinterpreting the comments on this board. People are not saying that slaves should not have received reparations — their 40 acres and a mule. People are saying that it doesn’t make sense for our generation (who didn’t participate in slavery) to pay reparations to the descendents of slaves — 7 generations removed — who were not slaves.

With regard to your Holocaust question: 1) Not only are the payees still alive, but so are the payers. 2) It was a specific event that happened 60 years ago, not a global practice dating back centuries. 3) If the money should go to victims and isn’t, that’s not an example we should follow. 4) If it’s not about paying money to the victims, but about recognizing what’s happened, then it’s already been taken care of with Affirmative Action and race-based scholarships, not to mention the founding of Liberia. 5) (And my favorite answer to your question) I reject out of hand the suggestion that we need to point to Europe for examples of how we should conduct our own affairs.

Also, the Japanese were paid reparations and part of the justification was because their property was siezed. The Italians and Germans, who were also detained by Roosevelt, were not paid. In fact, Clinton refused to apologize to Italians for thsi while President — around the time he was in Africa apologizing for slavery. (As a side note, people who bitch about Gitmo should really read up on the stunts Roosevelt pulled).

Spolitics on March 26, 2008 at 9:38 PM

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Ugh! I just typed a long reply and it didn’t go through. I don’t have the energy to retype it all and you’re probably gone by now anyway. I’ll just say I disagree.

p.s. The Japanese who were detained were paid reparations, in part because their property was seized. The Italians and Germans who were detained were not.

Spolitics on March 26, 2008 at 9:41 PM

And following the reasoning on this thread, what harm did Holocaust survivors endure anyway?

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Only sixty years of agony, heartache and nightmares, recalling how their loved ones; mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, brothers and sisters were carted away before their very eyes to be gassed and burned to ashes by the Nazis. They weren’t distant relatives who were taken away in chains to a new world hundreds of years ago. They were their next of kin, brutally murdered, slaughtered like sheep and experimented on like lab rats.

That’s all.

fogw on March 26, 2008 at 10:02 PM

Exit question: Big winner — Chris Cox?

Bing.

I said before that Crist seems like a Grade A doofus. During McCain’s Florida victory speech, this smarmy dope stood in front of the camera the whole time head-bobbing and mugging until I wanted to puke.

He stays in Florida, where they (inexplicably) seem to like him.

Jaibones on March 26, 2008 at 10:43 PM

crist, on top of being a moron, is a knee jerk liberal.

peacenprosperity on March 26, 2008 at 10:57 PM

Spolitics:
I am still here, but tiring.
I agree that different cultures have different priorities. I may disagree on degree or type, but I realize your general point.

I guess I’ll just make a couple comments.

“7 generations removed”-SPolitics
“distant relatives”-fogw

Sticking with the analogy, I realize we won’t be here to see if I’m right or not, but I believe in 100 years Jews will still be affected by the Holocaust as a group. I do not think these things vanish as quickly as people here do. My wife is a research psychologist, and I have learned a lot from her. I also think that people in this country 100 years from now might accept idea that the Holocaust can still affect the Jews easier than they can accept the idea of slavery affecting succeeding generations. I also think that even if it is not affecting Jews psychologically, it will still be used as an excuse for taking other peoples land.

stunts Roosevelt pulled

I know. I am no fan of Roosevelt, believe me.

I reject out of hand the suggestion that we need to point to Europe for examples of how we should conduct our own affairs.

It seems that Americans always know better. On question after question, it seems to be Americans on one side, the rest of the world on the other. You see it in the UN all the time. Votes of 163-2 (US and Israel). Do you really believe that only the US and Israel know reality, and the rest of the world does not? You must have great self-esteem. And it’s not just 163-2, because a large and growing percentage of the population with the “2″ countries is beggining to see what the other 163 other countries see, and they don’t like it.
One of two things is happening. Either a small and shrinking percentage in the “2″ countries know what’s really going on, and the rest of the people in the world are nuts (may due to some undetected virus), or else the 163 countries (and a growing percentage of those in the “2″ countries) are right, and a tiny percentage of those in the world cannot see reality. This may be due them being extreme apologists and accepting whatever propaganda they can find in order to preserve the idea that they live in the best country in the world because it is more comfortable for them to live their life believing that.

dave742 on March 27, 2008 at 9:21 AM

With people like Fauxbama,half white and half black, are they just going to write themselves a check? Oh yeah, his dad was an African Muslim. Never mind…

adamsmith on March 27, 2008 at 10:09 AM

I don’t know if you will get this, but money and opportunities are passed on from generation to generation.

dave742 on March 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I get it, but this isn’t necessarily true. Each generation handles ‘wealth’ and/or property differently. Some continue to to live well, others squander it. And being poor is not and indicator that in the US you will remain poor – there is ample proof of that.

My family has been involved in geneology for the past 24 years. We’ve gone back centuries, and we have hundreds (if not thousands) of personal stories of our ancestors. All you have to do is look at some of the wills in our collection to realize that our so-called ‘wealth’ as whites did not get passed down.

As a result, my dad was the 7th of 7 kids in a farming town in Middle America…you think that’s ‘wealthy’? My mom, even though she was the oldest, couldn’t afford to pay for 1 semester (one) of college in 1955. Isn’t that when segregation made it easy for ‘whitey’ to afford everything because they were ‘wealthy’? So why didn’t my parents have the money when they were supposed to be ‘taking it all’ from blacks?

However, by the time of my generation, I was raised middle-class to upper middle-class because my dad worked his ass off. But you know what? I became poor again after college, because it wasn’t my money!!! I’ve since had to work my ass off to get where I am.

Do you get that? I’m not trying to be mean (I’m just obviously very blunt), but many times wealth isn’t passed on to the next generation…that’s my point.

Miss_Anthrope on March 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM

Miss Anthrope:
I understand that generalities do not apply to every individual in a group. The generality, however, still applies. Smoking does not cause cancer in every smoker, but smoking causes cancer.

dave742 on March 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM

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