Ani-war protesters attack Catholic parishioners in Chicago Update: Bail set a little … high
posted at 7:39 am on March 24, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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A group of anti-war protesters interrupted an Easter Mass in Chicago yesterday, stunning parishioners with their shouts during Cardinal Francis George’s homily. They then squirted stage blood on the congregation, leading to their arrest and an angry confrontation in the gathering space outside the hall. As it turns out, the protesters not only were mostly incoherent, but also very, very late (via Memeorandum):
Six people were arrested at Holy Name parish’s auditorium Sunday after disrupting an Easter mass to protest the Iraq war.
The group—whose female and male members identified themselves as Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War—stood up at the beginning of Cardinal Francis George’s homily and shouted their opposition to the conflict, which marked its fifth anniversary last week. As security guards and ushers tried to remove them from the service, the demonstrators squirted fake blood on themselves and parishioners dressed in their Easter finery.
The red substance, which one protester later described as “stage blood,” initially drew gasps and a few terrified yelps from the 600 worshipers at the mass. The shock, however, quickly transformed into anger as people booed the six while they were escorted from the parish auditorium.
Why did they target the Chicago cathedral? Almost three months ago, Cardinal George met with President Bush. The protesters explained (much later) that the Cardinal should have challenged Bush to end the war during that private meeting. They failed to explain (a) how they know that Cardinal George didn’t do that, and (b) why it took them ten weeks to protest the meeting.
I warned people three weeks ago that the anti-war movement was going to start getting violent. Alan Colmes scoffed at the notion, but assaulting people sitting in church demonstrates that the fringe of the movement has no sense of boundaries, and their frustration at losing in the political process keeps growing. Instead of peacefully protesting outside the cathedral, which is their right to do, they insisted on breaking the law and conspiring to commit multiple acts of battery. This time, they used fake blood. How long before that won’t be enough, and they start trying to draw real blood instead?
Jim Hoft has a roundup of links relating to the story. It turns out that one of the apparent sponsors of this attack is the International Solidarity Movement, a pro-Palestinian organization. Why is a sponsor of the Palestinian cause sponsoring or at least offering apologetics for an attack on a Catholic Mass? One might expect the news media to ask that question, and to ask whether this is just an anti-war attack or whether it is an anti-Catholic, anti-Christian hate crime.
If that’s not clear enough, let me ask readers what kind of coverage this would have provoked had it been conducted against the worshipers at a mosque. If a group of anti-terrorist protesters had broken into Friday prayers at a Chicago mosque to spray stage blood all over Muslims in protest of al-Qaeda and the Taliban — a little stronger connection than that between the Catholic Church and the war in Iraq — the newspapers would have trumpeted it as a hate crime against American Muslims, followed by weeks of human-interest, anecdotal accounts of how terrible America is to its Muslim citizens.
Update: Via Jim and Carl in Jerusalem, here’s the video:
Notice the little bit of performance art in the middle of this protest, when they fall down shrieking. I’m assuming that’s when they threw stage blood on the parishioners. I’m heartened that they have been charged with a felony in connection to this protest, although I doubt that Chicago will actually follow through on prosecuting it.
Update II: Via Jim again, the bail for these “Holy Word 6″ got set a little higher than they expected:
A judge set bond at $25,000 to $30,000 today for six anti-war protestors following an Easter service disruption at Holy Name Cathedral in the Loop Sunday morning. …
Bond was set at $35,000 for Donte D. Smith, 21 and $25,000 for the five others including: Ephran Ramirez, Jr., 22, and Ryane J. Ziemba, 25, Mercedes Phinaih, 18, Regan Maher, 25, and Angela Haban, 20. Smith has served time in a federal prison in Texas for trespassing on a Native American reservation.
All six protestors were charged with two counts of felony criminal damage to property and two counts of simple battery.
They may have to stay in jail for a while, or some of their lunatic-fringe friends will have to find about $20,000 to spring all of them. Either sounds good to me. The judge is treating this seriously instead of winking over the assault on religious practice that this represented — at least for now.
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Did anyone notice what the lady at the very end of the clip said? “Well, there were no shots or anything…” But, if there had, all those people in those theater seats would have been easy targets as Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. And don’t think for moment that the radical left is above doing anything murderous.
Back here in Minnesota, we have the story of Kathleen Soliah who was a terrorist who helped murder an innocent woman and planted bombs under police cars. Mrs. Soliah is being yanked back to prison for another year. The people who support Mrs. Soliah are the same radical lefties that think Obama walks on water.
So, these lefties are the political sons and daughters of the same literal bomb throwers and killers of the 60’s and 70’s.
And those innocent parishioners or others can be easily be sacrificed on the altar of radical left wing ideology.
It’s just a question of time.
P.S.- Notice that with the left, they always make the perpetrators into the victims? The blood throwers fall and scream, Mumia is a victim, Tookie Willams should have been released to write more children’s books. And Mrs. Soliah’s supporters portray her as the victim. Not Mrs. Opsahl who’s been in the grave for thirty three years. Not her widower, Dr. Opsahl. Not her four children who have been motherless for thirty three years.
Amendment X on March 24, 2008 at 10:39 AM
I don’t want this to turn into a huge theological discussion, but I think even Jesus allowed that turning the other cheek would only get you so far. Catholocism is peaceful, but it is not pacifist.
JohnTant on March 24, 2008 at 10:43 AM
These guys who start off the post challenging Ed about links, and when the links are provided…crickets.
And when challenged to take a stand, instead of tip-toeing around an issue, claim it is an personal attack.
And then when be nailed down for being a “devils advocate” begin to back off and say the act was wrong, but it was an attack on the leadership of the church, but they “understand it” because they are smart.
And then when pointed out that the protesters were actually attacking the people on the holiest of days…crickets.
When taking up an argument, make it clear what side you are on…and then stand by it, or admit you made a mistake (which I have seen done maybe twice in the past 3 years).
The ol, “I don’t like what they did, but I “understand” why they did it” is like the “I don’t support the war, but I support the troops” argument.
As hollow as the Chocolate Eater Bunny (to steal a phrase).
There is not excuse for their actions…none.
right2bright on March 24, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Is this the “jump the shark” moment for the anti-war movement?
I wonder if they would target an Evangelical church next. Preferably here in TX. They would not last five minutes with their insanity, especially in a pistol-packin’ state.
newton on March 24, 2008 at 10:50 AM
“Came into work this morning, and all the Catholic boys were talking about this.”
This is exactly why the RNC should push this story. Force Obama to denounce them or to further cement is ties to the vile Rev. Wright. It happened in his home town, so it’s relevant.
If he does denounce it, it will enrage his disciples over at the Daily Kos.
We know the RNC won’t play hardball. The least they could do in this case is to use a tennis ball.
NoDonkey on March 24, 2008 at 10:50 AM
What’s an ani-war protestor?
Is ani the plural of anus?
MarkTheGreat on March 24, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Tom the apologist is back……….too bad.
(Oh, but surely you see that these kids are just blah blah blah………..but I disagree with them totally.)
omnipotent on March 24, 2008 at 11:10 AM
“If ONE DROP touched my daughter, I would be in jail right now.”
Right on.
If the left wants to know whether Catholics can fight, they need to study the Spanish Civil War.
Lots of dead lefties over that one. Franco was right.
And the Catholic Church promised one less year in purgatory, for every dead communist.
They really don’t want a fight. We will grease the treads of our tanks with lefty guts.
NoDonkey on March 24, 2008 at 11:16 AM
They could have been screaming “I love mac and cheese” for all I care…If I’m with my family at mass (or anywhere for that matter) I have to assume the worst and do what is necessary when freaks are yelling and spraying liquid all over the populace.
Bottom line: I could give a rat’s ass that they were anti-war, that only makes the beating I would give them a little more enjoyable.
Squarestate on March 24, 2008 at 11:16 AM
These guys who start off the post challenging Ed about links, and when the links are provided…crickets.
Here, I was being a smart ass because I knew the claim was made in the Times Square bombing thread, in which Ed and others were incorrect in pinning the attack on an anti-war group.
And when challenged to take a stand, instead of tip-toeing around an issue, claim it is an personal attack.
It was a personal attack.
And then when be nailed down for being a “devils advocate” begin to back off and say the act was wrong, but it was an attack on the leadership of the church, but they “understand it” because they are smart.
I didn’t “begin” to back off anything here. I reiterated what I had said from the beginning.
And then when pointed out that the protesters were actually attacking the people on the holiest of days… crickets.
As I said before, I think they should be prosectuted for their actions. And Good Friday is the holiest day of the year.
Tom_Shipley on March 24, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Based on…….?
JohnTant on March 24, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Based on the fact that it’s the day Christ died for our sins…
Tom_Shipley on March 24, 2008 at 11:30 AM
And that’s certainly a choice for you to make, I’m passing no judgment on you here.
However, what those Loonbats need to realize is that some of us take the Old Testament just as seriously as the New and that there might be a truly Old Testamental response from those of us. Which they wouldn’t like. About which I wouldn’t care.
They had a choice in the matter. They chose… poorly.
Misha I on March 24, 2008 at 11:34 AM
I notice no one ever does that in a mosque. They may be stupid, but they’re not crazy.
JohnJ on March 24, 2008 at 11:36 AM
“the demonstrators squirted fake blood on themselves and parishioners” = violence.
Dozens of attacks a day in Iraq = peace.
Perhaps much of the political divide in America stems from the fact that words mean different things to the left and the right?
alphie on March 24, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Not to turn this into a theological debate, but His dying meant nothing if He did not rise to show us that He conquered death, that He was who He said He was, and that He is the son of God.
So Easter/Resurrection Sunday is the holiest day of the year.
JustTruth101 on March 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM
I believe Ed asks a good question. If the ‘protest’ was conducted at a Mosque as he postulates, the media coverage would not be the issue. No, the arrest for a hate crime would. That is what this trash should be charged with, a hate crime.
JIMV on March 24, 2008 at 11:42 AM
It’s been coming to this for a long time. I thought it would come to a head last summer. That it didn’t proves that it was controlled enough by the leaders to ensure that the chaos began in an election year.
Connie on March 24, 2008 at 11:43 AM
The holiest day of the year is Easter. Christ was crucified on Good Friday. But the Resurrection was on Easter. We worship “The Living Christ”. That is the basis of Christianity. Christ died for our sins, and we are blessed with eternal life. Easter is the essense of Christianity. All of Jesus’ travails and teachings led us to Easter, where God’s promise of eternal life was made manifest.
valsgirl on March 24, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I don’t disagree at all with what you wrote. But it’s a pretty sad state of affairs when even if Chicago had the gun laws of Deadwood, SD circa 1880, people must decide whether to bring the Glock to Mass. Even in the old west men were expected to check their weapons at the door.
That’s what makes this episode so enraging. The complete and utter disrespect for their fellow citizens displayed by these cretins is just more in a progressive series of lines the “anti-war” movement has been allowed to cross. It is not at all a stretch to imagine a renewal of Weather Underground-style tactics.
scatbug on March 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM
I was actually wondering what bible study “church” taught you that Good Friday was more holy than Easter.
JohnTant on March 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM
I think you’re half way there.
The story would be the hate crimes files against the “as yet unidentified corpses” and later in the day, the story would be about the heads located in a dumpster behind the local 7-11.
moxie_neanderthal on March 24, 2008 at 11:50 AM
oops, should proof read…
The story would be the hate crimes filed against the “as yet unidentified corpses” and later in the day, the story would be about the heads located in a dumpster behind the local 7-11.
moxie_neanderthal on March 24, 2008 at 11:54 AM
If you guys are worried of the fake blood, how much worse would the real stuff have been after you pummeled them?
“But it might have been real, contaminated with Ebola or
teh ghey!”
Then washing it off quickly would be a lot more effective then rolling around with some unwashed hippie, scratching and clawing.
“You disrespected me! I’m going to beat you up!” How gangster of you.
tlynch001 on March 24, 2008 at 11:57 AM
I thought the commandment was “thou shalt not murder” when translated accurately.
jcrue on March 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM
If you come and commit a hate crime in my church, I’m sorry but the Irish in me will take over and I will haul your wimpy a$$ out so fast you will NOT know what hit you. You DO NOT come to MY CHURCH to do your stupid protests. After all, God will forgive me no matter what I do to you. Remember that.
foxforce91 on March 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM
TOOLS
koypop on March 24, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Easter Sunday is the holiest day of the Christian year. See reasons above.
And…hate crime. Tom said above that the “crossing the line” behavior was spraying fake blood. Uh uh. The crossing of line behavior, as others pointed out, was to invade a service and interrupt it, no matter what the message was.
What made it a hate crime was that Catholics in the pews were attacked based on a political view the protestors had (which they didn’t even confirm – what did the cardinal say in the private meeting?) about a leader of the church.
There wouldn’t be any doubt that this was a hate crime if committed against Muslims in a mosque during a worship service, or even another meeting in a a mosque for that matter. Targeting of religious people because they belong to a church/mosque that you disagree with, for whatever reason you disagree, religious or not, is a HATE CRIME.
The fact that it happened during the holiest day of Catholics’ church year just makes it worse.
inviolet on March 24, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Connie on March 24, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Agreed, I’m afraid this incident is just the tip of the iceberg for future protests. The unmitigated gal these people displayed in disrupting a religious service shows the true deviant nature of progressive doctrine. There is a growing acceptance of intimidation and violence as viable tactic amongst the anti-Bush crowd, their time is almost up so they are starting to get desperate.
dmann on March 24, 2008 at 12:18 PM
I find this whole thing interesting. The commentary on the bit about if this had been a mosque is really REALLY pointed. I mean seriously, could you imagine the weeks of coverage that would have gotten?
The New York Times headline would have read something like “Neo Conservative theocrats commit religious hate crime”
But hey … barbeque them Christians… we’re ok with that. It’s not youtube would yank the video.
;-)
It’s just “balanced coverage”
One Angry Christian on March 24, 2008 at 12:22 PM
It is for every religion but the Roman Catholic one and I believe it was in the King James version of the bible when they changed this.
JeffinSac on March 24, 2008 at 12:26 PM
The loons are still showing no class I see.
SouthernGent on March 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Eh, look at the wanker. Skinny, scraggly beard, chinless wonder.
Let’s look on the bright side here…those “schoolgirls” may just have won a few votes for McCain in November.
funky chicken on March 24, 2008 at 12:33 PM
As much as it pains me to defend Tom, but many churches do teach that Good Friday is the most important event.
After all, Jesus had already proven he was God many times over by the miracles he had performed.
If the Christ had never re-appeared on the face of this earth, his sacrifice, done to redeem our sins, would have still stood. That was the whole reason why Christ came to earth in the first place.
That Easter has, to many people come to displace Good Friday is irrelevant. After all, until a century or so ago, Christmas was a fairly minor festival as well.
I also agree that this is not the time and place for a theological discussion. I will say no more on this subject.
MarkTheGreat on March 24, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Scatbug- And I don’t agree with your statements at all. Do you have no recollection of what transpired in Colorado? A gunman with a grudge who had no intention of “Checking his gun at the door”. Your statement is specious at best. If I checked my Kimber 45 ACP at the door of my church, what happens when Mr. Evil Bad Guy comes in, intent on murder, and does not check his firearm?
Did you stop reading or skip over or just forget it was a parishioner who mentioned that at least there was no shooting. Not me. So, it was obviously on her mind.
Amendment X on March 24, 2008 at 12:39 PM
“Why is a sponsor of the Palestinian cause sponsoring or at least offering apologetics for an attack on a Catholic Mass? One might expect the news media to ask that question, and to ask whether this is just an anti-war attack or whether it is an anti-Catholic, anti-Christian hate crime.”
Excellent point, Ed. Imagine the reverse: if worshippers in a Mosque were attacked with fake blood by a group with ties to Israel, there would be a national outcry and the MSM would be scrolling “hate crime” on every news channel ticker. And what really boggles my mind is what do these people or their cause gain by attacking a group of people who are merely trying to celebrate Easter, which is basically the most important Christian holiday? They only garner malice and more alienation by doing this, which only fuels them further. It’s a vicious cycle. But acts like this certainly aren’t going to help end the war. And the double-standard is shocking and sad.
mattyj86 on March 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM
This has nothing to do with the freedom of speech of the protecting morons, since the mass is in no way linked to being part of the federal government; they have no obligation to honor these idiots outburst.
When you remove them force able you wrench back on the hand and place pressure on their wrist. Also if they accidently meet the door jams on the way out …opps they should have watched where they were going.
when are people going to stand up and put a stop to this bs. They want to get beat down so they can get the attention from the msm , but i am pretty much sure after a few beatings the rest will figure out it hurts way to much and the coverage isnt worth it .
1 good fist is worth a 1000 words.
Mojack420 on March 24, 2008 at 12:44 PM
This incident shouold get B.S.O’Reilly’s irish up, lets see if he can take a break from the all the pathetic begging and pleading for Obama to appear on his show and cover this story!
dmann on March 24, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Where is the part where they are torn apart by the crowd?
Oh sorry, wrong religion; wrong city.
RobCon on March 24, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Don’t throw holy water on me, bro!
RobCon on March 24, 2008 at 12:52 PM
I think it’s time for a little counter protest at these freaks homes.
dm60462 on March 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM
I know we’re supposed to turn the other cheek, but I really wish these morons would come to our church where I live. Our town is about 56% italian, and most of us are farmers and construction workers, with the exception of me of course. What that means is we’re a respectful parish, but most of the men in church weigh in around 200 pounds or more and spend the day outside dealing with problems.
These jokers wouldn’t have been too much of a problem in our church. No cops needed too, so it would save tax dollars.
Vincenzo on March 24, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Never underestimate the value of repeated open-hand slaps to the face.
awake on March 24, 2008 at 1:09 PM
“These jokers wouldn’t have been too much of a problem in our church. No cops needed too, so it would save tax dollars.”
And our church teaches us that Jesus forgives, so it would be acceptable to go get absolution through the sacrament of pennance, afterwards.
NoDonkey on March 24, 2008 at 1:40 PM
These anti-war clowns keep it up and there
going to put themselves on a terror group
watch list at the rate there going!
canopfor on March 24, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.
Maybe its time to reinstall pikes and halbreds at the back of Cathedrals.
Thats how long it took anybody who cares, to walk there.
Speakup on March 24, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Depending on the brand, it can be hard to tell fake blood from real. Which is kind of the point. Or even if the activists decided to add some fake blood to real blood in order to stretch their supply.
In the era of HIV and hepatitis, human blood can be a deadly weapon. If you can’t tell real blood from fake, it’s like trying to tell real guns from plastic toy guns at a distance in a dangerous situation.
If some crook pulls what turns out on closer inspection to be a toy gun on a cop at enough distance that the cop cannot reasonably be expected to know the difference, the cop has every right to shoot the crook. By the same token, if the parishoners had acted as if the blood were real and pummeled the “activists” to get them to stop, that is a reasonable action, given the circumstances.
As far as the congregation knew, they were under assault with a deadly weapon.
Sekhmet on March 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Shades of the sixties.
Johan Klaus on March 24, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Ani-War Protestors?
I figured that would be fixed by now…
Mibrilane on March 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Sekhmet on March 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM
A thoughtful and logical post.
Johan Klaus on March 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Ed, you are being as ridiculous as Reverend Wright. Catholic on Catholic violence is not anti-Catholic violence. I don’t have proof about the motives of the Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War, but I strongly suspect that they are completely serious about the Catholic part–though there are probably some liberal non-Catholic Christians in the group. This should be no surprise. The Catholic Church incubates much of the anti-War movement–including the Pope’s own rhetoric.
My experience on this topic is from a Pittsburgh Catholic institution, the Thomas Merton Center. The Thomas Merton Center organizes almost all of Pittsburgh anti-war activities–baring an occasional, independent outburst by undergrad kiddies. I can easily see the Thomas Merton Center folk doing similar actions as the Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War.
You need to meet some of this people to understand how they think. For instance, why did they choose the name “Catholic Shoolgirls Against the War”? The Catholic Left see themselves as fighting for Jesus in challenging sexism, racism, and homophobia. The Catholic Left would see the name “Catholic Shoolgirls Against the War” as a clever way to emphasize their opposition to oppression.
thuja on March 24, 2008 at 3:41 PM
I agree with you, Ed.
They are so desperate right now. The cargo cult known as the “anti war” movement has failed to recreate 1968. Their protests draw dozens, not thousands and they are meeting increasing resistance from the American people. All their attempts to get us to surrender in Iraq and to the Islamofascists at large have failed. The vast majority of politicians who were happy to pose for photo op’s with them are not returning their calls and are avoiding them.
It is becoming obvious to all except those who share their agenda that the members of all the various “anti war” organizations are not against war, they are just against the US and western civilization. Most of them display paranoia and other aberrant psychological behavior and are in need of treatment.
They are, in essence, a cornered rabid dog and such an animal is a very dangerous one indeed. They believe in their hearts that if they can not convince us to go along with their agenda by their “peaceful” means then they will force us to by the use of violence. I will not be a bit surprised if we have our first “splodydope” before the election and the perp will be a member of one of these “anti war” organizations. I also will not be a bit surprised if these idjits blow up an armed forces recruitment center, a Republican candidates office or church. So far they have only been slapped on the wrist for all their BS so they think they can do what they please and their ACLU lawyers will get them out. They will discover the hard way that “freedom of speech” does not include the use of violence. They also might discover that people have the right to self defense, too.
Nahanni on March 24, 2008 at 3:42 PM
…”assaulting people sitting in church demonstrates that the fringe of the movement has no sense of boundaries, and their frustration at losing in the political process keeps growing.”
Ditto, Ed. Too much is never enough for extremists.
I also find it extremely ironic that they protest at exactly the wrong place of worship and again, Ed is eight. If some one on our side were to even approach a Muslim and ask for peace, they would have felt the full weight of the Law on them; these fruit loops will (maybe) do a few weeks of public service.
Christine on March 24, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Because “Poodles against the war” was taken.
This group is part of the International Solidarity Movement, a member organization of the United for Peace and Justice anti-war coalition.
Who is United for Peace and Justice?
From discoverthenetworks.org
The Tides Foundation is Teresa Heinz-Kerry in case you did not know.
Nahanni on March 24, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Ed’s right, not eight…der doy!
Christine on March 24, 2008 at 3:49 PM
This is found from a link at Jim Hoft’s blog, linked by Ed above:
I really don’t think the “Catholic” part is serious….
JohnTant on March 24, 2008 at 3:52 PM
“The Catholic Left see themselves as fighting for Jesus in challenging sexism, racism, and homophobia.”
These people are in no way Catholic, they are as useless and as baseless as “Catholics for Free Choice”.
They reject pretty much all the teachings of the Catholic Church, claiming that they just want to change a few things, which of course would mean everything.
Sort of how they feel about our country. They just want to perfect it by destroying it. Screw them.
NoDonkey on March 24, 2008 at 3:53 PM
I’m sure we can do more investigation into how serious is the “Catholic” in Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War. I’ll go visit the Thomas Merton Center and see what evidence I can find here about the motives of the “anti-war” movement.
It’s always a good thing to know who the enemy is. I think it is obvious that we can find out more by going and talking to the enemy, instead of debating among ourselves.
thuja on March 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM
By all modern standards this is a hate crime. By some modern standards, this is racism.
As usual, the acid test: imagine this was an attack on a mosque.
uptight on March 24, 2008 at 4:03 PM
I almost wish someone had been hurt. Sooner or later these protesters will plan and execute an act of actual physical violence to get their point across. I just hope that when that happens it will jolt America out of her American Idol fixation and force people to see just how dangerous these idiots are. God help us if it doesn’t.
Browncoatone on March 24, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Makes you wonder if they gave up that burning at the stake thing a little quickly.
Iblis on March 24, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Bail set a little high? Not at all…considering they’re charged with two felony counts each. I’d say bail is low, if anything.
JetBoy on March 24, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Behead Those Who Insult Christianity
faraway on March 24, 2008 at 4:37 PM
By some modern standards, this is racism.
And what standards would those be?
Tom_Shipley on March 24, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Sweethearts of the cell block.
ronsfi on March 24, 2008 at 4:47 PM
We have an excellent chance to observe for ourselves the relative Christianness of modern “peace” protest. This weekend appears to be the high holy days of peace protesting, since we’ve been in Iraq for five years now. I’m going to my local “peace” protest and will report back on the Christian organizations versus other organizations I find. I would encourage everyone to do the same. If we are going to win this war, we need to know who the enemy is.
thuja on March 24, 2008 at 5:04 PM
I have been struggling for a long time on the concept of “anti-war” protestors. It always seems that they are anti-fighting back, or anti-any American action. They have no issues with anyone starting a conflict, only trying to end it.
Bobber on March 24, 2008 at 5:14 PM
All due respect to you, and can’t speak to whether this is true for other churches. What is certain is that, to Catholics (i.e. in the Catholic Church), Easter is the holiest day of the year.
Don’t wanna debate the theology but it is relevant, because the offense of the hate crime (that’s what it was) to Catholics was even greater, since it was the main feast of the entire Church year.
inviolet on March 24, 2008 at 5:17 PM
I’m Catholic and was taught Good Friday is the holiest day of the Catholic calendar.
Tom_Shipley on March 24, 2008 at 5:19 PM
All due respect to you too, but you were misinformed (see especially that last one of three links: it’s from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (or CCC, paragraph 1169).
Anyway, the point was: this was major league offensive to Catholics, and more so yesterday.
inviolet on March 24, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Throw the book (and bookcase) at these punks. How much more offensive can they be?
Zorro on March 24, 2008 at 5:45 PM
What a bunch of morons. I see most agree with that view, so no need to ramble. Would have been nice to see a little “whack a mole” action happen…
Hog Wild on March 24, 2008 at 5:46 PM
I am not the least bit surprised that the judge set the bail as high as he did here. He wants to make sure these six numbskulls get the real Chicago treatment, namely a nice long stay in a less than nice jail cell, in the same building with even less than nice inmates.
See, some people out there may think that Chicago forgot about the 1968 Democratic Convention, when anti-war protesters wound up tearing through the streets wrecking havoc. The judge today sent a message today, loud and clear, to any other anti-war protestors out there thinking of doing even dumber things within the city limits.
Chicago ain’t forgotten nothing. And it will be happy to prove it.
pilamaye on March 24, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Well lets start with the lefty modern standard of labeling anyone that calls Islam fascist as being an “Islamo-phobe” or a “racist.”
I think the poster may have been sarcastically showing how ridiculous it is to call someone a racist or an “Islamo-phobe” when they are merely pointing out the obvious fascist ideology of a religion or group regardless of the groups’ skin color or ethnicity.
This is where many on the left are attempting to cloud the issue. Whenever anyone utters “Islamo-fascists” they come unglued and start calling those people “racist” or “Islamo-phobes” yet in reality you cannot be “racist” against a religion any more than you can be considered a “racist” for pointing out the fascist ideology of a group or religion, it is what it is and those that think doing so (pointing out the fascist ideology of a group or religion) needs to look up the definition of fascism and racism.
Also Tom, your previous posts regarding the “occupation” of Palestine is incorrect and another lefty revision of history. I suggest you do some research on the Israeli wars against the Arabs then maybe you’ll understand why those Palestinian areas are now Israel’s. The bottom line is don’t attack your neighbor unprovoked if you’re not able to handle the consequences, and in this instance the consequences was the Arabs lost some of their land.
So please stop spreading the myth and propaganda of our enemies that are attempting to make this out to be a legitimate “struggle” against the “evil Israeli “occupiers” because it’s a lie! Besides, nothing can justify the tactics they employ (killing innocent civilians) even IF they were being “occupied” as you state.
Liberty or Death on March 24, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Matthew 5:39 deals with personal insults. “If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” If someone slaps you on the right cheek that means he hit you with his left hand — which in middle eastern culture is a personal insult more than an act of violence. Christ was telling his disciples to disreguard personal insults but nohwere (NOWHERE) does he say to let violence go unopposed.
srhoades on March 24, 2008 at 5:57 PM
I have to agree.
It is my understanding (never went thru the bail bond process before) that bond is generally 10% of the bail amount.
assuming $2500*5 and $3500 bond would be $16,000.
Their friends should have no problem coming up with that sad to say.
Also
This article says it was a military installation not a Native American reservation.
F15Mech on March 24, 2008 at 6:03 PM
They are stupid but not that stupid. If they got a beating at this Catholis Church the msm would have been all over the church and the parishioners as violent anti-free speach bigots. If it happened at a mosque, if the protestors lived, the msm would have called them haters and asked if the Bush War had poisoned them and caused such anti-islam sentiment.
peacenprosperity on March 24, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Point of order, please:
I am rather disappointed to see so many here on the right throwing around the charge of ‘hate crime’. True, there is a certain perverse justice in turning one of the left’s favorite enthusiasms against them. But the idea that some crimes are worse because they are perpetrated against particular classes of people is anathema to sound justice, as it creates a ‘thought crime’, which leads inexorably to the thought police. And we don’t want those, neither of the right nor the left.
Now back to your regularly-scheduled and justifiable diatribes.
MrLynn on March 24, 2008 at 6:16 PM
I agree with those that say that the left shouldn’t mess with the Catholics. The same goes for the muslims who forget who held the course at Vienna against the Turk invasion. [For those illiterate history buffs, it was the Polish Catholics]
docdave on March 24, 2008 at 6:18 PM
I’m sorry but everytime I see/read Tom_Shipley’s remarks – all I can think of is Tom Marvolo Riddle or Voldemort from Harry Potter.
unaffiliated on March 24, 2008 at 6:53 PM
I heartily agree with your opinion of “thought crimes”, but the fact is that hate crimes have become an established part of American jurisprudence, and these nitwits were clearly guilty of one. Until that happy day when we erase the hate-crime concept from our legal framework, it’s a mistake to give the Left a monopoly on leveling accusations of them. If we don’t stand up and call this a hate crime, we’re implicitly conceding that white Catholics cannot be the victims of such a crime, and liberal extremists cannot be guilty of perpetrating them.
Meanwhile, we can look at this incident, and similar outbursts by the desperate extreme Left, as an example of the imposition of unpopular political ideas on the majority by force: totalitarianism, a vehicle that always seems to need a full load of hate in its tanks before it starts rumbling down the highway.
Doctor Zero on March 24, 2008 at 7:09 PM
This is what the Pope said…Good Friday is one of two or three of the holiest days in the Catholic Church. The other being Sadie Hawkins day (when Nuns can ask Priests to give confession), and Ground Hog day (because he digs Bill Murray).
*
I think that’s official.
Tell me if Good Friday was the fourth most important day, would what they did be okay by all of the theologians posting here?
right2bright on March 24, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Anybody know why they weren’t charged with civil rights violations for interfering with the religious rights of the congregation?
TheBigOldDog on March 24, 2008 at 7:27 PM
right2bright on March 24, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Yes, it is kind of a silly argument… it might be a catholic school thing.
But, as I was taught and from what I observed and experienced, Good Friday is the holiest day of the year. The services are stripped down affairs, you’re not even supposed to talk to anyone on the day.
That one link provided says Easter is the “feast of feasts” and the “Solemnities of solemnities” I believe is a reference to Good Friday, as I know of, is definitely the most solemn day of the year… I believe the only day mass is not celebrated.
Personally, I would be more upset if protesters interrupted Good Friday services than Easter Mass.
Tom_Shipley on March 24, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Here’s some whining by a leftist group about the Catholic Schoolgirls Against the War being held in jail from http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2008/03/209459.shtml
I despise this leftist tactic of behaving badly and then being angry when you have to face the consequences.
thuja on March 24, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Cops better take care of this unfortuantes. Even criminals usually respect a church. Hope the boys don’t meet bubba.
GarandFan on March 24, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Meh. They’re just your a-typical class of wingnut tools who will never hold down a proper job, never pay taxes, never contribute anything to society worthy of mention aside from shock/entertainment value, and they’ll never move out of mommy’s and/or daddy’s house/basement.
Question: Why is their ilk almost always oily haired slack jawed dweebs with bad vision?
SilverStar830 on March 24, 2008 at 8:05 PM
OK, I feel silly continuing to say this because this isn’t the point of this thread. But just to clarify.
1. That last link is about Easter, not Good Friday – the latter isn’t mentioned.
2. You’re right that Good Friday is the only day Mass isn’t celebrated.
3. You’re also right that the Triduum (Good Friday through Easter Sunday) is the holiest three days of the year.
4. You’re also right that Good Friday is the most somber day of the year. That’s not the same as “solemn” in liturgical meaning. “Solemnity” as a Catholic term just means Holy Day,” not “somber day.” Christmas is a solemnity but a very joyful day. Easter is the Solemnity of Solemnities because it’s the most “solemn,” the holiest, day of the year.
5. None of this changes the fact that what those people did was despicable and inexcusable and they deserve to be prosecuted for it. Point taken from
on not punishing thought crimes, but the fact is, if they’d done this in a mosque they’d certainly be accused of a “hate crime” by the left. I agree that it’s mainly to throw the leftists’ canards back in their own faces.
inviolet on March 24, 2008 at 8:07 PM
These pathetic protesters are the scum of the earth and should be deported to Europe. Ugh…
PoliticallyIncorrectSandy on March 24, 2008 at 8:12 PM
In case I’m not clear. They should be punished for their actions (disrupting a church service regardless of motive, and vandalism of clothes) not their thoughts.
But (accurately) calling it a hate crime, without levying additional legal penalties “for the thoughts,” has the additional benefit of tossing left-wingers’ rhetoric back in their faces, a method of response very effective IMO not only because it embarrasses and discredits their often misguided causes, and (more charitably) may help them think more seriously about how freely they toss around the accusations to others.
inviolet on March 24, 2008 at 8:18 PM
This “Shiksa” loves ya Peace2Israel. I am pretty sure the security personnel at my Easter Mass would have been a little more “persuasive.” {you should see what they do to handicapped parking violators}
You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre without it being a felony, so why can you fake bleeding and being beaten in a crowded church and not have it also a felony?
Branch Rickey on March 24, 2008 at 9:14 PM
The King James text was developed under the sponsorship of the Head of the COE (King James), not the Catholic Church. “Kill” is the traditional English translation, whether using the King James or Douay-Rheims translations of the Decalogue. It is, I believe, only with the return to the original texts that the question of “kill” vs. murder arises.
It may have been introduced in Jerome’s Vulgate translation from Hebrew and Greek to Latin, which is the source for the Douay-Rheims text, and influenced the King James text.
Flar on March 24, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Listen, bottom line! Just like a little kid who puts his hand 5 inches from the flame and feels the heat but it doesn’t burn him. Then he gets a bit of courage and goes for 4 inches closer… until he actually touches the flame does he understand not to mess with the flame. For all of the HA Irish Catholic readers, you are the flame and there close!!!!
titleist123 on March 24, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Not holding my breath on McCain
Branch Rickey on March 24, 2008 at 9:55 PM
I think it’s time for a little counter protest
atin these freaks homes.There, I fixed that for ya ….
Ghostbuster on March 24, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Point well taken. The problem as I see it is that the more the idea gets established in common currency and law, the harder it will be to eradicate it.
Not that thoughts are hidden from the law: ‘intent’ and ‘motive’ can only be inferred, not observed. The trouble with ‘hate crimes’ is that they are based on the idea of special classes of victims, and we don’t want to encourage that line of thinking. The Left does not think of Christians, much less Catholics, as such a class, so I suppose it is worth pointing out how blinkered the Left is. But it still makes me uneasy. All should be equal under the law.
Great sobriquet, ‘inviolet’.
MrLynn on March 24, 2008 at 11:49 PM
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