Kay: Blame Iraq on the Germans
posted at 11:24 am on March 22, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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David Kay tells Der Spiegel that the German intelligence service BND created the “biggest fiasco” in his career in intelligence. Calling the BND “dishonest, unprofessional and irresponsible”, Kay says the Germans failed to do even the most basic vetting of their Curveball source before the Iraq war, and then lied about him to keep Americans from verifying his authenticity:
SPIEGEL: As head of the Iraq Survey Group, you led the effort to follow up on the claims made by ‘Curveball,’ the asylum seeker from Iraq who told German intelligence that Saddam Hussein was building mobile biological weapons laboratories. Do you remember the first time you began to doubt his story?
Kay: The real shock was that the CIA had never spoken to him directly. To this day, I still don’t understand. How can you hang the most dramatic part of a case for war on an individual no American agent has ever directly debriefed? I realized right away, we needed to follow up in Baghdad on whatever leads we had concerning ‘Curveball.’ …
SPIEGEL: The argument made by the Germans for not providing access to ‘Curveball’ was not totally illogical. He claimed to hate Americans. It would have been a breach of trust if they had turned him over to the CIA.
Kay: We know today, of course, that it was all nonsense. First of all, we have people who speak 100 percent fluent German or Arabic. After the war, armed with the name from the British, we sought out his family. His mother and brother were very cooperative. They told us that he spoke English — the language of instruction at his university was English. They also said he had plans to emigrate to the United States. My men saw his room and there were posters on the wall of American pop stars. …
He was a defector for God’s sake and the BND was convinced that his information was so valuable that they distributed over 100 reports on ‘Curveball’ to their allies. I stand by my criticism of the BND to this day: To not have checked up on the exile Iraqis in Germany who knew him, not to have made all the appropriate efforts to validate the source, is a level of irresponsibility that is awfully hard to imagine in a service like the BND. And then, the fact that they failed to provide direct access to him remains one of the most striking things. It was a blockade that made it impossible for any other service to validate his information. The German service did not live up to their responsibilities or to the level of integrity you would expect from such a service.
Kay sounds furious to this day over the fiasco of Curveball. Not everything the US and its allies had on WMD programs came from this source, but the mobile-labs intelligence came directly from Curveball. The Germans claimed they tried to walk back their assertions just before the war, but Kay deflates that rationalization in this interview. If the BND sent over 100 reports on the intelligence gleaned from Curveball, then they obviously considered him reliable and his intelligence highly important.
The CIA gets some scolding from Kay as well. Indirectly, he attacks George Tenet and the “slam dunk” analysis based on the Curveball data without getting independent verification of his reliability. The CIA might be excused for assuming that a serious intel agency like the BND would have done that for themselves, but since the data had been presented as actionable, Kay believes the CIA should have insisted on more cooperation from the BND.
However, he saves his fury for the German intel agency. The failure got combined with a disinformation strategy aimed at the CIA to keep them away from Curveball. First, the BND — which had enormous experience with defectors during the Soviet era — didn’t assign any of their experienced handlers to Curveball. They allowed him to be run by their technology group, which didn’t have a clue how to verify his standing. That basic error got compounded by the BND’s insistence on telling Americans that Curveball would shut down if ever exposed to an American, an assertion the CIA found was an absolute lie after talking with Curveball’s family after the war. It turns out that Curveball, far from hating Americans, wanted to emigrate to the US.
Kay believes that without the dramatic Curveball data, the Congressional authorization for the war in Iraq may never have passed. It would have forced the Bush administration into a more limited set of options for dealing with Saddam Hussein, such as the kind of limited strikes that the Clinton administration used, which proved completely ineffectual. As Kay noted in his Iraq report, Saddam had prepared to restart his WMD programs as soon as the faltering sanctions completely collapsed anyway, and the Harmony documents show his support for al-Qaeda organizations like the Army of Mohammad in Bahrain and Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Ayman al-Zawahiri’s terrorist group that produced a large portion of AQ’s leadership.
We would have known none of that without the invasion and the capture of Iraqi Intelligence Services documents. Perhaps the Germans did us and the world a favor after all.
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Ed:
Then, in screwing up, the Germans did the world a huge favor.
irishspy on March 22, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Why would the Germans push us to a war they claim to not have wanted?
TheBigOldDog on March 22, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Allegations without responsibility?
amerpundit on March 22, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Ever here of the 1950s Soviet Bison Bomber?
America thought they had HUNDREDS!
They had fewer than 10… and they could not reach America and return (not enough fuel).
Yet that drove our Defense budget for many years…
Face it, Western Inteligence services pretty much suck.
Romeo13 on March 22, 2008 at 12:05 PM
When the CIA presented this “evidence” to the CIC he should have asked them if they interviewed the source and verified his intel. That seems pretty basic. Call me, I dunno, thorough.
Having said that, two book published recently go into great detail describing how Saddam HUSSEIN smuggled his WMD works and materials out of the country, some of which was intercepted at the Jordanian border and appeared on Jordanian TV. (reported by John Loftus)
dogsoldier on March 22, 2008 at 12:05 PM
A refrain we will never hear from the left “The Germans lied and people died”.
I’ll be holding my breath to hear Olby mount his soapbox on this one.
moxie_neanderthal on March 22, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Re you kidding me? You think the President of the USA is going to get down into the weeds of the processes the CIA used to gain and analyze intel? You’ve got to be joking.
TheBigOldDog on March 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM
The CIA under Komrade Klinton deteriorated into another “State Dept”. Basically useless. George Tenet will be remembered as a failure, more so than Adm. Stansfield Turner under that other idiot, Jimmy Carter.
Zorro on March 22, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Please, the President of the US has to ask his intelligence agencies how much they vetted all of their sources?
This is what he had advisers and staff for. The President receives the finished intelligence product after it goes through the various departments and agencies and staff.
He neither has the time nor ability to ask whether the information he gets has been individually and separately vetted.
He has to assume it has.
SteveMG on March 22, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Prior to 2002, Germany had three very different objectives re Iraq.
Part of the govt wanted to get rid of Saddam.
Part of the govt wanted to get power, and (like the French, like Gov Dean) sought that power by marketing anti-war/anti-Bush/anti-American rhetoric
Part of the govt genuinely did NOT want the Oil for food program (their illegal cash cow) to end, and didn’t want their illegal arms deals to be revealed.
The faux anti-war people won power, but didn’t have the time or access to the curveball case to unveil it. By the time they knew what was happening, the war was authorized, and the steamroller of an end game was unstoppable.
scottm on March 22, 2008 at 12:21 PM
this all sounds like part of a strategy between France, Germany and Iraq to mess with Bush. as I recall, France/Germany were providing Hussein insider UN resolution info while we were ramping up. they wanted us to attack for WMDs, none would be found, Bush would be destroyed and humiliated.
thought, things didn’t quite work out that way for ‘em.
jimmer on March 22, 2008 at 12:28 PM
That’s my question exactly. It seems like they pushed us into war for some purpose that benefitted Germany, a purpose they could not state publicly. If Germany didn’t want us to know of the alleged mobile units, we would never have known about them. Such was the space put between Curveball and the CIA by the Germans.
Was the Curveball fiasco a rougue action from within the BND initiated to counter official government policy?
shuzilla on March 22, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Perhaps they didn’t realize they were pushing us to war. Perhaps a lot of these reports came prior to 9/11. Perhaps what they were really doing is trying to keep the sanctions on Iraq so they could continue to make money…
TheBigOldDog on March 22, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Regardless of whether Iraq had WMDs, the most important question is whether the invasion was beneficial and in this sense justifiable.
This is certainly an interesting bit of trivia, although one can not help but wonder if Mr. Kay is just seeking to shift blame for his own (perceived) failure. I doubt the BND will issue an official comment.
GermanAtheist on March 22, 2008 at 12:34 PM
SteveMG on March 22, 2008 at 12:15 PM
You forget that those infected with BDS insist the CIC should be clairvoyant like their Messiah, (all hail his Excellency) Obama!
dmann on March 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Unfortunately, it will take a future generation of historians, not even born yet, to come to this conclusion. The ones who will write the first histories of this time are all so infected by BDS that they won’t give blame to anyone but the evil Boosh.
Del Dolemonte on March 22, 2008 at 12:39 PM
A few years ago Francis Fukuyama wrote in the WSJ that one of the things we learned about the Sep. 11 attacks and the Iraq War was how screwed up Western intelligence services are. We’re flying blind. Kay’s testimony reaffirms that. I haven’t been assured the CIA has finally gotten its act together let alone the agencies of U.S. allies. This uncertainty will result in massive skepticism from the public the next time an administration tries making the case for war.
seanhackbarth on March 22, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Folks, come on…
Don’t subscribe to some vast conspiricy what can be explained by incompetence.
Romeo13 on March 22, 2008 at 12:43 PM
That’s definitely a possibility. But at some point they had to see that the bad intel that they gave us was leading us into a war with Iraq. Why not make up another lie to stop it, or better yet, tell the truth? If the did have interest in keeping the sanctions going then you’d think that they had just as much interest in keeping Saddam from being removed from power.
29Victor on March 22, 2008 at 12:43 PM
There, fixed it for ya.
Mew
acat on March 22, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Just as I do with supposed global warming, I blame the penguins.
DAMN PENGUINS!
madmonkphotog on March 22, 2008 at 12:59 PM
well, since the left says Bush knew about 9/11 based on a few agents saying that AQ might hijack planes and blow up a building. That if Bush did not act on this information – then if Saddam sold WMD’s the lib’s and world would be calling bush a idiot for not acting on such strong eviddence that Saddamn was making WMD’s and supporting terroist.
Donut on March 22, 2008 at 1:00 PM
For all the armchair quarterbacks out there, while it seems easy and justifiable to through the Western intelligence services under the bus for questionable data on Iraq, try to think (critically) of why and how this happened without resorting to unsubstantiated theory. In formulating an argument consider what common trait the following countries all share/shared and how that impacts the art of intelligence gathering; Iraq, Iran, USSR, N.Korea, and Red China, compare and contrast to the Western nations.
dmann on March 22, 2008 at 1:12 PM
dmann on March 22, 2008 at 1:12 PM
D’oh…..must remeber to proof read…THROW not through!
DumbA$$
dmann on March 22, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Is this like blaming typical white people for riots in L.A.?
DfDeportation on March 22, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Well actually what Bush got was a note saying Osama really determined to attack the US. (Which pretty much is useless info because he’s said he wanted to do that for years and said so back in the late 90’s.) There wasn’t even any info on what kind of attack or when he was going to do it.
Dave_d on March 22, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Oxymoron: German intelligence.
Steve McCullough on March 22, 2008 at 1:50 PM
The CDC should have issue a BDS Alert back in ‘03 as one of the most dangerous diseases in the history of mankind. It morphed normal human beings into monsters.
Connie on March 22, 2008 at 2:31 PM
oops…issued
Connie on March 22, 2008 at 2:32 PM
True, and sadly there are many other liberal/lefty “truths” that will stagger on without real challenge for years to come. It’s ironic how our left wing media and pop culture consider themselves so fresh and cutting edge when in fact they are incredibly slow-witted and almost impervious to change, new ideas and constructive self-criticism. Their own brand of conventional wisdom is as sclerotic and resistant to change as any that’s ever existed.
Django on March 22, 2008 at 2:45 PM
The BundesNachrichtenDienst ( Federal Secret Service ) was so completely penetrated by Soviet and DDR agents that they were pretty much working for the USSR thoughout the 50s, 60s, and 70s–and American & British intelligence-gathering services knew this.
The rest of the “West German” government was worse, at least until the 80s: WIlly Brandt’s personal assistant / advisor was a Stasi plant–so whatever Brandt knew, the commies knew
NOBODY in the West trusted the BND; nobody………..
Janos Hunyadi on March 22, 2008 at 3:58 PM
My instincts in that period was that That goof Colin Powell was stalling by going to the UN and that any possible element of suprise was long gone by dragging the UN into things. I always wondered if Powell was somehow trying to sabotage the effort. Maybe.
JAW on March 22, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Hey wasn’t it German intelligence that said the Russians were finish in the Summer of 1941? I don’t think their batting average has improved much since then.
Our CIA is seems to always be on Spring break. Their failures are legendary. To think I was going to apply after college graduation – whew.
Catfish on March 23, 2008 at 12:13 AM
One should be able to rely on one’s help…as competent, which is why I never understood why Bush kept Tenet.
No official going into a briefing with the POTUS should ever state anything other than the best facts or intelligence, already vetted. If Tenet would have given Bush the Curveball information and said it had not yet been verified, it may have turned out differently. Tenet was the one pushing the “slam dunk”.
As it is, I still believe the US had better intelligence from other sources than just this one.
91Veteran on March 23, 2008 at 12:28 AM
More convoluted tracking of Curveball I read awhile back was that it was the French intel service that first “encountered” this Iraqi flake, and waved him at the Germans, who foisted him onto the Brits, who flacked him on the CIA.
Mojamaiko on March 23, 2008 at 2:19 AM
Sorry guys you got it completely wrong. If the President is going to pull the trigger on a war, then he has to do due diligence on the intel that precipitates it. You are correct that he doesn’t have time to do that on everything, but on certain things, HE MUST. Especially if all he has to do is ask a couple questions.
We know the President often reviews intel details at regular briefings. Mind you, I am not one of those that says the President lied. There is ample proof that WMD stockpiles, resources and equipment were in Iraq 3 months before we as a country rolled in and that it was exported from Iraq while our government farted around for those three months.
dogsoldier on March 23, 2008 at 7:30 AM
I believe the Senate intel committee’s review of the Iraqi estimates (note that word – it’s used for a reason) concluded that Curveball’s info was not material to the major findings on WMD matters.
It’s obviously – and tragically, disastrously – been beyond the interest or ability of the administration to take the time to keep the discussion of intel and pre-emption on track, but the logic won’t go away, however sloppy or factually challenged post-hoc commentary may be. Iraq had vast financial resources, the proven capacity to conduct very impressive WMD development (VX), an extensive history of use of WMD, an unmatched history of recklessness in attacking/provoking/defying all including the US even when the direst consequences were threatened (see Pollack’s discussion of the pre-1991 Bush note to Saddam and how Iraq crossed every single red line without hesitation), had been neck-deep in terrorism for decades, had very alarming ties to AQ (see various including the US indictment relating to the Africa embassy bombings in ‘98, and the question of Iraqi CW assistance to AQ via Sudan), and “containment” of the conventional sort was irrelevant to the post-9/11 threat. Sanctions were crumbling (they had never been intended to last a year, much less 12 years).
In short, there’s a very good reason that almost all serious observers in the US backed the idea of taking out the Iraqi regime (see congressional votes on the use of force authorization to recall that such support was actually broader in ‘03 than support for the Kuwait war had been in ‘91). Those reasons were not affected in the slightest by the fact that STOCKS of WMD weren’t sitting around. Pre-emption is about, uh, PRE-emption. Iraq was by far the most dangerous regime in the world post-9/11, and the other two most dangerous ones (Iran and NoKo) ended up being included in that elite “axis of evil” group. Seems they were the other two regimes most involved in WMD and global terrorism (or in NoKo’s case, reckless behavior like huge state criminal enterprises). Gee -I guess there’s an underlying logic there, even if the administration refuses to explain or defend it. I’m not surprised the media and Beltway types are too dim to get it, but I am disappointed that so many otherwise sensible people have forgotten the underlying logic of pre-emption.
IceCold on March 23, 2008 at 12:58 PM
All of this speaks to the difficulty of mere containment. Containment worked in the case of the Soviet Union, but it approached not working. Meanwhile, the Americans’ understanding of the Soviet Union was famously faulty. The containment of Saddam Hussein was costly, and it left Iraq a cause of Western corruption, fear, distraction, and division. It seems the Americans will do better to destroy their enemies directly when possible, and save containment for the hard cases.
Kralizec on March 23, 2008 at 1:08 PM
But in the end, a lack of information about an inimical power is one of the best reasons I can think of, for destroying it.
Kralizec on March 23, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Better to over-react to weak intelligence and live than to adhere to a code of perfect intelligence and die.
Learning more about the current enemy, Despotic Islam, would be closer to the point than carping about your friends’ minor slip-ups.
We may have hit clumsily, but we still connected, and turned a lot of jihadis to compost.
Put the energy toward Osama, not the BND.
profitsbeard on March 23, 2008 at 9:11 PM
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