Saudi Mideast expert: If Pope wants churches in the Kingdom, he only has to do one thing

“Does the will of my Father” is quite a bit stronger than “By Faith Alone.”

Don’t get me started on the whole “This is my body, this is my blood deal.” It’s written is scripture but gets suprisingly ignored in some denominations.

BKennedy on March 20, 2008 at 8:45 PM

I’ll see your “faith plus works” argument and raise you a “This is the work of God, to believe on him whom he hath sent.”

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Note that to “believe on” implies not just a belief in something as a fact, but an act of putting trust in someone or something. Much like getting on an elevator shows a certain faith in the elevator to perform its function. You can believe an elevator will take you to the next floor, but that belief does you no good until you trust to the elevator by, you know, actually getting on it.

Along this same line is John 5:38:

John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

See also John 11:42 and 17:21, among many others.

The point of James’ statement that faith without works is dead is exactly this: It means nothing to say you believe, you must act on that belief. The devils believe there is one God, but they don’t come to God, so their belief goes no further than their own minds.

Note also that there is absolutely no problem with mixing faith and works. As James puts it, show me your faith without your works, and I’ll show you my faith by my works.

However, it is not possible to mix grace and works. If you’re saved by grace, then you’re not saved by works. If you’re saved by works, then you’re not saved by grace.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Misunderstanding the passage in James has led to all sorts of confusion and silly theories over the years, such as believing there was some massive struggle in the early church between the “James” camp and the “Paul” camp.

Paul rejected any such dissensions and rebuked the Corinthians for practicing them, asking, “Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?”

1 Corinthians 1:12-15
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas [Peter]; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

This is the single biggest problem with the Catholic emphasis on works. While we should have both faith and works, the actual work of salvation is God’s alone. If you trust at all in your own works, then you’re not trusting in God.

God does not accept partial credit for salvation.

theregoestheneighborhood on March 21, 2008 at 12:59 AM

BY grace, THROUGH faith (which is of course itself the gift of God – otherwise the sinner’s prayer would be just another “work.”). Catholics believe the distinction is crucial to understanding the rest of the Bible. His free grace inspires both the faith and the works, by which we will be in part judged

So very, very close to a statement I can support, but that last part, by which we will be in part judged, implies our eternal salvation is judged in part by our works, thereby mixing grace and works.

Yes, faith is of God, and therefore can rightly be called a gift. And you could certainly argue that that faith inspires us to good works, so those good works could also be called a gift. Except that now you’re declaring works to be a gift, which confuses the fact that works are something you earn by doing, and a gift is something unearned. In other words, a gift is something given, not earned.

But the gift in the passages quoted is actually the gift of salvation itself. Faith is the means of appropriating the gift of salvation, as the wording of Eph 2:8 makes clear.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Through faith means that we obtain this salvation by means of faith.

(See Romans 2:5-10, for example, where the text and context makes clear that our good or bad deeds will lead to either our immortality [Heaven] or wrath and fury [Hell].)

Yes, our good or bad deeds will certainly lead to either immortality or wrath and fury. But guess what? Paul says that absolutely no one will attain to immortality by good works. In fact, he proceeds to say that those who sinned knowing the law will be judged by the law (Rom 2:12), that the Jews who pride themselves in knowing the law dishonor God by breaking the law (Rom 2:23), that “we have before [i.e., in the preceding text] proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin” (Rom 3:9), that no one is righteous (Rom 3:10), that there is none that doeth good (Rom 3:12), that all have sinned (Rom 3:23), and that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). If you want to argue that our works have something to do with salvation, it’s foolish to turn to the book of Romans for support.

The key to understanding all scripture is to read it in context. The epistle to the Romans is the most theological, structured, and closely argued of all Paul’s epistles. In chapter 1, Paul discusses why the Gentiles are sinners. In chapter 2, Paul discusses why the Jews are also sinners. In chapter 3, Paul wraps up why both Jews and Gentiles are sinners, and why absolutely no one will be saved by their good works. It is at the end of chapter 3 that Paul turns to the subject of being justified by grace through faith, and not by works.

So Paul’s statement here about good works earning immortality are in the context of his assertion that no one has earned this immortality by works. Jews and Gentiles alike are saved only by grace, never by works. And that grace is obtained through faith, which itself is given us by God.

theregoestheneighborhood on March 21, 2008 at 2:14 AM