Tom_Shipley on March 20, 2008 at 1:36 PM AND Watchman on March 20, 2008 at 1:50 PM

You have GOT to be kidding. Please say you were, so I don’t have to pull out my iPhone to find you a mental health professional.

Excerpt from that National Review Article they enjoy: In describing Trinity, Obama struck another and too seldom heard note: one of appreciation for the strength of African Americans who have suffered as no other group has in the nation’s history. [Betcha there are a few jews who may disagree] Gunnar Myrdal (An American Dilemma) wrote disparagingly of black culture as nothing more than a distorted and pathological version of white culture. Obama’s description of the parishioners in his church gave white listeners a glimpse of a world of faith (with “raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor . . . dancing, clapping, screaming, and shouting”) [Riiiight, noone's seen Sister Act 1, 2, or 3, huh? And I guess I musta snoozed during the Goddamn America part of the movie]that has been the primary means of black survival and uplift.

Rev. Wright, as Obama says, is the product of a certain era — thankfully gone. (As are Jesse Jackson, John Lewis, and most civil-rights icons, he could have added.) Do I wish Senator Obama had walked away from Trinity Church? Sure. I suspect the reasons he did not do so are psychologically complex. In any case, Wright’s Afrocentric, hate-America views, are clearly not those of Obama himself, who lives, as he says, [never mind that he'd FIRE anyone who uses the kind of racist terminology that Imus did] in the only country on Earth in which his story is even possible.[You know, except for in Kenya, where his family is now a Co-share president in favor of islamist's racist attitudes towards Christian Kenyans. Uh huh. Buh Bye Obama]

emphasis mine

Hopenosis

ninjapirate on March 20, 2008 at 12:42 PM

LOL, ninja!

Corsair on March 20, 2008 at 3:14 PM

I don’t see how it is possible for Barack to belong to a church which practices Black Liberation Theology and believe in racial harmony.

Barack simply cannot have it both ways.

I have a whole problem with the concept of “black congregations.” TUCC isn’t just a community of Christians that happen to be black, they deliberately set themselves apart from non-black Christians for the purposes of practicing Rev. Wright’s “black values system.” This, IMO, is nothing but idolatry. Obama, Wright, and the whole lot of TUCC pagans are not going to be taking the “up escalator” if they continue practicing this perversion of Christianity.

highhopes on March 20, 2008 at 2:48 PM

Therein lies the problem – The church I worshiped with when I was in Minnesota was about 50-60% black anf the preacher was black. You never would have heard that kind of sermon from him. He preached about Christ – not hatred spewed by these black separatists. Its no wonder so many are turning to Islam. They preach hate much better as they allow for killing their enemies(anyone teaching something else)!

Even one passage in which commentators claim he tossed his grandmother under the bus took courage to address, although it would have been better if he had not connected her to Wright. The comments of his grandmother obviously caused him pain, and it does reflect the experiences of America, as many people can relate to having a relative offer intemperate remarks on race, ethnicity, and religious biases.

Sorry, not buying it. It took zero courage to use his grandmother like that, and to say that it caused him pain is pure speculation, particularly since it requires taking his word that it happened in the first place. Why should we believe Obama? He is clearly lying his ass off.

However, when I heard something objectionable from the pulpit, I acted to protest it and demand change — and enough of us acted together to get it. Obama never bothered to make that kind of effort, which leads to the conclusion that either he didn’t see anything particularly objectionable about the rhetoric, or that he lacked the minimal courage to act as an agent for change.

Bingo.

Having never indulged, I’m loathe to express an opinion. Perhaps with your wealth of experience, you could enlighten me.

Watchman on March 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM

You need to grow the f*ck up.

The most alarming aspect of the Wright-Obama saga is that this church is the largest black congregation in Chicago.

I have a whole problem with the concept of “black congregations.” TUCC isn’t just a community of Christians that happen to be black, they deliberately set themselves apart from non-black Christians for the purposes of practicing Rev. Wright’s “black values system.” This, IMO, is nothing but idolatry. Obama, Wright, and the whole lot of TUCC pagans are not going to be taking the “up escalator” if they continue practicing this perversion of Christianity.

Wait a minute now. Sen. Obama attends this guys church. Bush had/has these people over to the Whitehouse. In Haggards case, he took his calls ever week. Talk about being tied to the bunch. I’m not saying Bush should be paying the price of his affiliation with these idiots. I’m just saying the same courtesy should be extended to our opponents.

Un point, c’est tout!

Watchman on March 20, 2008 at 1:06 PM

I still don’t think it’s a relevant argument because it’s highly unlikely that Bush knew the truth about Haggard before the press caught on. Bush didn’t belong to Haggard’s church, and I don’t recall him defending Haggard after the fact.

To me, this isn’t about what Wright said, exactly (there are planty of jerks out there) it’s about whether Obama is going to cowboy up and state categorically that either a) Wright’s views are offensive enough that he (Obama) will no longer belong to his church, or b) Wright’s views are not at all offensive and, in fact, he (Obama) agrees so deal with it.

Even one passage in which commentators claim he tossed his grandmother under the bus took courage to address, although it would have been better if he had not connected her to Wright. The comments of his grandmother obviously caused him pain, and it does reflect the experiences of America, as many people can relate to having a relative offer intemperate remarks on race, ethnicity, and religious biases.

That’s the “crazy uncle” defense. Yes, all of us have family members, usually older, who say embarrassing reflective of an earlier time.

But that doesn’t work here. Obama drew equivalence between his grandma’s occasional bigoted remarks and the hate-filled filth spewed regularly by “Reverend” Wright. It’s either incredibly cynical on his part, or intellectually shallow.

Or maybe something more, since he just described her as a “typical White person.”

“Obama never bothered to make that kind of effort, which leads to the conclusion that either he didn’t see anything particularly objectionable about the rhetoric, or that he lacked the minimal courage to act as an agent for change.”

I guess he just answered the question as to his judgment and life experience to be commander in chief.

Ed, please forward your post above to the McCain people. Seriously.

Rick on March 20, 2008 at 1:41 PM

If the McCain campaign isn’t following influential weblogs like HA then they’re in a world of hurt.

Right he just sat there for 20 years and listened to it. He took his baby girls there to listen to it. His wife just parrots sanitized versions of it. But, you know, he doesn’t agree with it. BWAHAHAHA!!! Oh that’s funny!

TheBigOldDog on March 20, 2008 at 1:47 PM

I agree biggie!
That “preacher” said that black women think all they have to offer is their body.
I have a daughter and we would have STORMED out of there on that comment alone!
Obama, on some level, agrees with this crap.
If racism is on the rise, it is because we are tired, damn tired of hearing “blame whitey”.

I had no idea that as a rich white person I was harming anyone. Stupid me, I thought that by starting our own business, we were employing people, paying them a good wage and enabling them to take care of their families.

I think this has harmed race relations. It has certainly made me look at things differently.

Watchman on March 20, 2008 at 1:55 PM

If you think most Americans hear things like that in church, or have even once heard things like that, then you either attend a church like that or have never been to church yourself.

If you’re making the argument that he sat there and tuned out that sort of rhetoric then what does that say about the man’s integrity that he could just sit there and not pay attention to fiery, impassioned hate speech?

If Obama becomes President it’s gonna be payback time for whitey.

Right he just sat there for 20 years and listened to it.

TheBigOldDog on March 20, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Or didn’t listen to it. You talk as though you’ve never been to church in your life. /snark

You want a rational my view, here’s a rational my view:

TheBigOldDog on March 20, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Fixed it for me.

And his speech Tuesday, although widely praised by the pundit caste and Obama supporters, has only seemed to widen the gulf with the Budweiser class here…

Good god m8, Pastor Wrights invective is toxic, no question. You’ll not hear me argue otherwise. You’ve not heard Sen. Obama argue otherwise either, though. That’s all I’m saying.

Watchman on March 20, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Right he just sat there for 20 years and listened to it. He took his baby girls there to listen to it. His wife just parrots sanitized versions of it. But, you know, he doesn’t agree with it. BWAHAHAHA!!! Oh that’s funny!

One of quite a few rational idiotic views of Obama and his speech on the right:

Tom_Shipley on March 20, 2008 at 1:36 PM

Fixed it for you. You want a rational view, here’s a rational view:

Obama racial issues may extend to Pa.

Stephanie Gill, a bartender in a white working class neighborhood in this Rust Belt city, noticed the shift immediately.

A week ago, her customers at Rauchut’s Tavern in Tacony didn’t have much to say about Barack Obama. But when she returned to work Wednesday, a day after the Illinois senator attempted to quell the furor over his pastor’s racially incendiary remarks, the reaction inside the corner bar was raw and unapologetic.

“People are not happy with Obama,” Gill said. “It’s the race stuff.”…

And his speech Tuesday, although widely praised by the pundit caste and Obama supporters, has only seemed to widen the gulf with the Budweiser class here…

Glenn Peter, 54, a patron at Rauchut’s Tavern, said he heard finger pointing, not reconciliation. He took issue with Obama’s explanation that Wright’s observations of a racist America were reflecting the racial scars of his past…

Peter said he’s never voted for a Republican for president, but if Obama is the nominee, he will support Sen. John McCain…

Mitrea, the aesthetician on her cigarette break outside Beautyworx Salon and Day Spa in the Mayfair section of Philadelphia, said she watched the whole speech. And before the controversy over Wright’s sermons, Mitrea said she was 55 percent for Clinton, 45 percent for Obama.

“Now I am 100 percent for Clinton and zero percent for Obama,” Mitrea said.

I don’t think Wright should sink Obama or make him unfit but IMO it takes away from his message.

ninjapirate on March 20, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Good god m8, Pastor Wrights invective is toxic, no question. You’ll not hear me argue otherwise. You’ve not heard Sen. Obama argue otherwise either, though. That’s all I’m saying.