Missile defense settlement with Putin?

posted at 10:25 am on March 19, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Vladimir Putin issued an unexpectedly sunny statement about the prospects for US-Russian relations Monday night after receiving an extensive communiqué from George Bush. He told Condoleezza Rice and Robert Gates that he accepted Bush’s framework for upcoming negotiations on a range of issues, including missile defense, which has been a source of diplomatic tension between the two countries and Europe:

The Bush administration’s push to expand its missile defense network into central Europe — and Putin’s firm and unrelenting opposition to it — is the most contentious security issue facing the two countries. But there are other issues, including economic and political matters, that the Bush administration would like to see advanced as Putin steps aside to assume a role of uncertain political clout.

The Russians have criticized U.S. missile defense efforts for decades, but their opposition intensified when the Bush administration began negotiating with Poland and the Czech Republic to build missile defense sites on their territory. The Russians argue that it is a potential threat to their own nuclear deterrent.

“I wouldn’t say I’m optimistic on any of this stuff,” Gates told reporters. “The Russians hate the idea of missile defense. We are trying to figure out a way to make them partners in it,” in ways that ease Russian suspicion that the missiles are really intended to be used against them. …

Putin called the Bush letter a “very serious document” and said that he had studied it closely.

“If we can reach agreement on its most important provisions than we will be able to state that our dialogue is proceeding successfully. There are still a lot of outstanding problems that need to be discussed,” Putin said, sitting across a table from Rice and Gates.

The missile defense system acts as more of a public irritation rather than a real challenge to Russia’s nuclear deterrent, at least for the next few decades. It isn’t designed to block a massive load of missiles. Rather, it’s designed to knock down a few at a time, which makes it useless against Russian capabilities, unless the Russian missile systems have degraded far faster than anyone anticipated.

Instead, it intends to defend Europe against a smaller threat — nations that have only a small-scale launch potential. That would include both Iran and North Korea, although the latter would not likely target Europe if it decided to attack anywhere. The Iranians have at least one missile, the Shahab-3, with a range between 1200 and 1800 miles, sufficient to reach eastern Europe as well as Israel. They are also working on the Shahab-4, which they claim will only be used for commercial space projects, but will have a longer range than the Shahab-3 if used in military applications.

They only had twenty launchers deployed for the Shahab-3 as of March 2006. The US missile defense, if successful, could negate that offensive capability and keep the Iranians from provoking a regional war. The mutually-assured destruction scenario simply doesn’t apply to non-rational actors such as the mullahs in Tehran, and the region needs a defense against the Iranian ballistic capability.

Bush’s letter to Putin may have outlined the basis for cooperation and inclusion of the Russians in the defense umbrella. That was Ronald Reagan’s original intent when he proposed the missile defense system, as well as checkmating the Soviets in the arms race. The Iranians are much more dangerous than the Russians, and the missile defense system could provide an opening for greater cooperation between Moscow, Washington, and the rest of NATO in defending against them. Hopefully, Bush has made Putin understand the stakes and our position in this latest diplomatic effort.

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President Obama would scrap the whole thing.

RobCon on March 19, 2008 at 10:30 AM

The question becomes however, why are we the ones paying to protect Europe?

I want a strong military, but this whole protect the world thing is destroying our economy. We need to look out for OURSELVES first.

Face it. Oil is over $100 a barrel and we’re STILL paying to rebuild Iraq? We still give Saudis military aid? And all the while OUR economy is tanking? And foreigners are using our own Exported Dollars to BUY American companys?

Unsustainable stupid economic plan… and this just plays into it…

Romeo13 on March 19, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Here’s the deal:

You help Iran with missiles and nuclear capabilities, we will deploy missiles on your borders. Oh not to attack you, but the one who you are helping.

It is as simple as that.

Even though in public the Russians seem to compromise (“settlement”), behind the scenes it is a thorn in their sides.

We shall see how the Russians can live with it.

Indy Conservative on March 19, 2008 at 10:41 AM

I’d buy more into the ABM system if I knew for sure it worked outside a controlled test environment.

The sea based system has enjoyed success and I think the airborne laser system that’s in a Boeing 747 has yet to be tested but the land based system which is aiming for higher capabilities than the other two isn’t so trustworthy last I heard.

Which begs the question, why is Putin threatened by a system that even if it worked has no chance of stopping a massive missile attack from Russia?

Yakko77 on March 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Nations preparing to ‘bargain’ in bad faith often follow a pattern of optimistic statements when issues are broached and indignation or outrage when specifics are named. Let’s see how this develops.

njcommuter on March 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Perhaps ‘Ole Sta … oooops … *Putin* … got *another* letter, from Hillary, saying “Don’t sweat it comrad, I’m gonna kill this thing anyway.”

Tony737 on March 19, 2008 at 10:50 AM

To all the commenters saying “why are we paying for Europe’s defense?”:

Our missile defenses in Europe are primarily intended to act as a front line defense for the US. ICBM trajectories out of the mideast just happen to overfly Europe on the way here. Shielding them is gravy.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 10:52 AM

I think Churchill already had the last word on this, and all topics Russian. Not much has changed, no is likely to.

JiangxiDad on March 19, 2008 at 10:55 AM

“President Bush’s framework”…?

Tecnically I suppose that’s true, since it’s his administration. But I guarantee that this thing is essentially Secretary Rice’s policy. Remember that she has been a Kremlin-watcher of long and distinguished standing.

If she has managed to pull off this old Reaganite dream, I may have to consider forgiving her current infatuation with the Palestinian “peace process.”

Anton on March 19, 2008 at 10:56 AM

So-called “missile defense” is a first strike weapon and anyone with a brain should understand this. Putin, unlike our boy-president, understands this, which is the reason for his concern. Gates and Rice are to be commended for trying to restore some sanity in US foreign policy, particularly toward Russia — a valuable ally.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Idiot.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:02 AM

The question becomes however, why are we the ones paying to protect Europe?

What unbelievable arrogance. For the Europeans, who have kindly allowed us to station these weapons of mass destruction on their territory, they should be asking ‘why are we paying for US defence’? Why should these small nations make themselves targets on our behalf, or suffer the fallout from missile explosions, with nothing in return?

Pax americana on March 19, 2008 at 11:05 AM

So Russia is offended that the US wishes to provide its allies in Eastern Europe with missile defense from crazies? So we can only presume that Russia wishes to use missiles against our allies, or at least threaten them with that possibility.

Russia is at best a towel boy to the future menace of the world, China. Russia helps to arm our enemies with weapons that are used against us in the Middle East and I guess it gives them the opportunity to feel like the radical and evil force they once represented on the world scene. Why would we even allow that to happen again?

Russian defenses have thus far proved to be a real waste of oil money. Israel and the US continue to prove that.

Hening on March 19, 2008 at 11:10 AM

Pax americana on March 19, 2008 at 11:05 AM

Indeed. May I ask when you emigrated to the US?

JiangxiDad on March 19, 2008 at 11:10 AM

We are trying to figure out a way to make (the Russians) a partner in it

They’re not Commies any more, but Reagan’s axiom still applies–”Trust but verify”.

jgapinoy on March 19, 2008 at 11:14 AM

Drum, go back to the circle!

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 11:17 AM

who have kindly allowed us to station these weapons of mass destruction on their territory.

Again, idiotic. These interceptors are not nukes. They conatin no explosive warhead whatsoever. The “kill vehicles” are kinetic and destroy the target with simple physics. Bullet with a bullet.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Um, to hit the US it won’t be an over the Pole launch. That trajectory neither uses the rotation of the earth to help speed the missle, nor is it the shortest range trajectory from the middle east…

Its also where we happen to have our STRONGEST defense.

We also have these little things called ships, with already existing Radars which can be in place to get the data we need.

We also have satelites…

Placing these facilities in another country does nothing more than force us to defend those facilities, and thus, that country.

We are so busy protecting others, that we don’t protect ourselves (Southern border anyone?).

Romeo13 on March 19, 2008 at 11:23 AM

You are wrong, Romeo. I’m not talking over the pole. I do this for a living and anything else I would say is classified.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:27 AM

Rather, it’s designed to knock down a few at a time, which makes it useless against Russian capabilities, unless the Russian missile systems have degraded far faster than anyone anticipated.

Right. It would degrade extremely fast, for instance, if the US were to strike first.

freevillage on March 19, 2008 at 11:30 AM

I do this for a living and anything else I would say is classified.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:27 AM

And he’d have to kill you if he told you — with missiles, of course.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Placing these facilities in another country does nothing more than force us to defend those facilities, and thus, that country

Yeah, its called alliances, thats what mutual defence is all about. Usually a good strategy!

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 11:36 AM

You know, as well as any “idiot,” Cuffy, that this is all part of an offensive arsenal. The point is not whether these weapons are nukes or not, it is that they buttress (by decreasing the potential for a destructive response from the enemy) the potential of lasting success from a (our) first strike.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Yes, of course. Ten interceptors in Poland would certainly allow us first-strike capability on Russia. They only have approx. 5,800 nukes.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:41 AM

You folks in the nuke industry (that is, if you are in fact in that industry, which I have my doubts) who consider the US and its allies (read: Israel) to be the only responsible players in the nuke game are pathetic. You think you can control this beast. What is worse, you think that you alone have the morals to control it responsibly.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 11:42 AM

I’m in the “shoot-the-nuke-down” industry. You’re welcome.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:41 AM

You missed my point (I admit it wasn’t clear). It’s not Russia that is threatened, but Putin understands the game of “missile defense.”

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 11:45 AM

it is that they buttress the potential of lasting success from a (our) first strike.

God forbid we do something like that. Useful idiot…

Preach it, Cuffy.

spmat on March 19, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Putin and the Russians were well aware of our intent and reasons to withdraw from the ABM treaty long before we actually did. A limited ballistic missle intercepter program in no way contributes to the offensive capability of the United States Strategic missle force.

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Moreover (and thanks, but no thanks for “the shoot the nuke down” service you fancy I should be appreciating and thankful for), this being the age of (thanks to Bush) “preventive” or “pre-emptive” war, why would any nation in the world not consider the possibility of the US using nukes as a first, ah, er, sorry, preventive, strike, especially in light of our very admission of that possibility a few weeks ago?

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM

US and its allies (read: Israel) to be the only responsible players in the nuke game are pathetic

Speaking of pathetic….so predictable.

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM

In which target city do you live, Drum. We’ll be sure to switch off coverage that day…

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:52 AM

I’m kidding off course. We protect all Americans, even the ungrateful ones.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM

In which target city do you live, Drum. We’ll be sure to switch off coverage that day…

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:52 AM

One of the biggest, Cuff. Very funny. You guys are a hoot.

The amazing thing is, for all the jingoist American bad-a** posturing, there is an awful lot of time worrying about enemies lurking in every corner of the world. If it’s not jihadist, it’s the Russians; if it’s not the Russians, it’s the Chinese; ad nauseum. Don’t get me wrong — our enemies are lurking all round the world. But are we really so vulnerable? I don’t think so. Our country’s been hit once on its mainland. That’s a pretty good track record.

The truly strong usually don’t spend so much time posturing and threatening — especially threatening the use of nukes (we already played that hand and it wasn’t fun; or was it?).

On the other hand, maybe the US is weak. God forbid, for we’ve made us a whole hell of a lot of enemies.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 12:03 PM

Putin and the Russians were well aware of our intent and reasons to withdraw from the ABM treaty long before we actually did. A limited ballistic missle intercepter program in no way contributes to the offensive capability of the United States Strategic missle force.

Why was it prohibited by the ABM treaty then?

freevillage on March 19, 2008 at 12:04 PM

freevillage on March 19, 2008 at 12:04 PM

You know it was, why do you ask?

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 12:11 PM

The ABM treaty was signed in a different technological era. The notion of being able to launch something that would make physical contact with something moving that fast (hitting a bullet with a bullet) was assumed to be nearly impossible. But development along those lines would quite likely result in a missile capable of shooting down our SR71 or surveillance satellites in very low orbit, so it was in our best interest to squash development of such a missile.

The current system is designed to defend against insane mullahs and lunatic generals with their finger on the trigger of a mobile nuke or something.

crosspatch on March 19, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Maybe the Russians give a wiz about the missiles, but want something in return. Admission to the G8? Extradition of some ex-oligarchs? Recognition of their claims on the oil under the north pole? Withdrawal of recognition of Kosovo independence? Silent assent to their recovering the lost provinces of Ukraine, White Russia and Georgia? Oh to be a fly on the wall, while Condi & Vladimir talk turkey.

I hope they come to terms. Russia and the USA need one another, much as they hate admitting it.

dhimwit on March 19, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Sorry–
Maybe the Russians don’t give a wiz about the missiles….

dhimwit on March 19, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Thanks for your comments. Appreciate what you say. We all get caught up in talking to trolls, but hey, shit happens. Good luck.

JiangxiDad on March 19, 2008 at 12:20 PM

Just a cog in the first-strike war machine, JiangxiDad…

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Sorry, reading is a disciplined task! Defensive systems were banned so that M.A.D. doctrine would keep the US and USSR in check or in balance by dictating the likelihood of a successful nuclear first strike without retaliation was highly improbable.

Today’s system was not developed too nor will it be deployed in sufficient numbers to cope with the numbers and capability of Russian strategic missiles. Putin understood this and as such offered little to no argument when the United States withdrew from the treaty.

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 12:27 PM

I hope they come to terms. Russia and the USA need one another, much as they hate admitting it.

dhimwit on March 19, 2008 at 12:18 PM

They will come to terms, so long as the US keeps the neocons out of the way. Go ahead now and call me a lefty, etc. But it’s the truth.

Drum on March 19, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Putin understood this and as such offered little to no argument when the United States withdrew from the treaty.

This is simply a lie.

freevillage on March 19, 2008 at 12:38 PM

Admission to the G8?

Russia has already been admitted to the G8.

aengus on March 19, 2008 at 12:43 PM

The amazing thing is, for all the jingoist American bad-a** posturing,

Better to posture and protect than to prostrate and provoke. Your ideas are the epitome of Osama’s weak horse foreign policy. Please stay away from my country’s safety; you’ll get us all killed.

spmat on March 19, 2008 at 1:17 PM

It’s simple. Give share the tech with the Russians like Reagan offered.

If you’re out somewhere and guy takes a swing at dude, you shouldn’t get upset if dude tries to work on blocking punches . . . unless you’re helping guy throw the punches.

In otherwords there’s more to Russia/Iran then a little selling of technology.

- The Cat

MirCat on March 19, 2008 at 1:35 PM

freevillage on March 19, 2008 at 12:38 PM

I beg to differ, but more that likely we will argue semantics and definitions. Putin did say the United States unilateral withdrawal was a mistake, but added that the growing ties between Russia and the US would continue and hoped a new and stronger strategic relationship could be realized. The Bush administration had placed its ABM cards on the table in plain sight via many meetings with Russian officials prior to the withdrawal from the treaty and by doing so clearly demonstrated its reasoned position. Other than perfunctory Russian political rhetoric, nothing substantive has changed. If you have other sources/information that alters these facts, please enlighten me. I can only formulate an opinion based on observed phenomena, historical record and critical analysis.

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Did the picture for this post come from the Jawa Report?

dmann on March 19, 2008 at 2:42 PM

President Obama would scrap the whole thing.

RobCon on March 19, 2008 at 10:30 AM

True, it would upset Iran and it`s time to build bridges, extend olive branches and all that holy-joly mush. A good togetherness chat will do. :)

ThePrez on March 19, 2008 at 4:27 PM

At first I thought it was a pity I missed this short lived debate but then again when there is little substance there is no debate.
And Cuffy, PLEASE……….. You sound like that wannabe in “True Lies”.

jerrytbg on March 19, 2008 at 8:57 PM

who have kindly allowed us to station these weapons of mass destruction on their territory.

Again, idiotic. These interceptors are not nukes. They conatin no explosive warhead whatsoever. The “kill vehicles” are kinetic and destroy the target with simple physics. Bullet with a bullet.

Cuffy Meigs on March 19, 2008 at 11:22am

This is one of the reasons I say PLEASE.
Cause you misunderstood what he was saying, possibly, and you didn’t ask….you assumed. Next time try not to take people out of context. In the beginning of Pax’s post he said “European”. Excuse me…. we never had “bigboy’s” in Europe?

jerrytbg on March 19, 2008 at 9:16 PM