If you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

What he says will be only pablum.

I would never stay at a church that sermonized “God Damn Black America” and promoted hate, even if it was only a few weeks each year.

There’s no excuse.

The fact that this type of rhetoric goes on is more the reason for continued hatred than anything else. They’re using these words to sell DVD’s for fund raising.

‘Nuf said.

Besides, “Come Together” is stolen from the Beatles.

Let’s try a little intellectual honesty here. Pastor Wright doesn’t insist on adherence to the Black Value System because he believes that it is inferior. He also doesn’t insist on it because he believes that it as good as, but no better than the “White Value System”. He requires it of his parish because he holds the Black Value System to be superior. Thus he believes in the superiority of the values he associates with a group whose defining characteristic is race. That, by definition, is racist.

Really, this is not hard.

But his pastor sounds more like a friend of Ahmadinejad: “Israel” is a “dirty word?” According to Loopy Dictator President Gilligan Ahmadinejad, Israel is “filthy bacteria.” Hmmm…. Senator Barack Obama, Prophet of the new Post-Racial Politics o…

f you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

Fair enough. I expect demand that he calls for an immediate and universal end to teaching hate from the pulpit. Any hate, from any pulpit.

I’ve only seen about 30 seconds of Wright’s sermons, so really can’t say.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Heh.

I’ve only seen about 30 seconds of Wright’s sermons, so really can’t say.

Now, Wright has said some hateful things in regards to white people, yes. No doubt that hatred has its roots in slavery. This latent anger is there and has been there for a long time. You saw it after Katrina. You see it in some of these sermons. I don’t think it’s right. And I don’t think Obama thinks it’s right either. And I believe that his speech will address this today.

I’m sure Obama has been exposed to this kind of thinking living in the community he has for the past 20 years. Not necessarily the controversial Wright sermons that floated around the Web, but if you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

The racism is only part of the problem contained in the larger picture of anti-Americanism. Do you deny that Wright’s sermons reflect a constant theme of propaganda against America? And, that the congregation, judging by their response, also endorse those views? Why did Obama maintain membership in a church whose members enthusiastically support hate speech against America and claim primary loyalty to Africa? He can’t pretend ignorance of that hate, and whatever he says tonight can’t offset his participation in it.

It’s a typical political maneuver.

“I addressed it before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

cntrlfrk on March 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM

A maneuver McCain will use as well…”I addressed the Iseman issue before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

Even though he previously confessed to at least three people that he did in fact have an affair with her.

The media will concur with declaring the issue done, over, fine’.

Anyone who, after today, brings up the racist pastor and Obama’s 20 years of sitting in the pews in agreement, will be branded a racist.

It’s a typical political maneuver.

“I addressed it before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

Honky, please!

Let’s just take a look at the post in which you base your racist claim.

Can you image if you changed “black” to “white” on that list and imagine the outrage?

In short, substituting the word “white” does make it seem racist because whites have a long history of racism in this country.

As can you read, I don’t think the statement is racist with either “white” or “black” used. Racist being the promotion of one race over another teaching the inferiority of certain races.

Whoever originally posted the mission statement said: “Imagine the outrage if “black” were replaced with “white”.

I actually agreed with him that there would be outrage, but it’s because there’s been a painfull history all-white organizations teaching that blacks were an inferior race and using the law and violence to keep them oppressed.

When people hear a group promoting “white” values they immediately think of groups like the KKK, who aside from promoting those values, denigrated other races.

As I said before there are other “ethnic” churches and organizations that promote the culture of their “motherlands,” who speak to the specific issues that face the specific group. But, they are not exclusive, they do not use violence and they do not teach that their group is superior to others. The latter is what defines racism.

Obama’s church accepts white members. It doesn’t preach that white people are inherently evil. It doesn’t promote that blacks are a superior race. That mission statement in and of itself is not racist.

Now, Wright has said some hateful things in regards to white people, yes. No doubt that hatred has its roots in slavery. This latent anger is there and has been there for a long time. You saw it after Katrina. You see it in some of these sermons. I don’t think it’s right. And I don’t think Obama thinks it’s right either. And I believe that his speech will address this today.

I’m sure Obama has been exposed to this kind of thinking living in the community he has for the past 20 years. Not necessarily the controversial Wright sermons that floated around the Web, but if you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

So, not only do you know all about my me, what I’m all about, but you know what anonymous people reading this site think. You have some very special powers!

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM

Well, I’ve been anonymous on this thread until now and I, for one, agree 110% with JiangxiDad… and Baldi… and TheBigOldDog…

You are being purposefully dense either because you enjoy pushing people’s buttons or (worse) you are actually that clueless.

And I agree with others… It’s pointless to discuss this with you because you refuse to see the obvious and you won’t convince me of your “point of view” or “nuanced view” or whatever it is you call your delusion.

Understanding the mind of a Liberal is difficult, maybe impossible. I have engaged in many long winded arguments with Tom Shipley through the years over at Captains Quarters. I finally stopped arguing with the man when I realized that I will never understand how this man’s mind works

All of my family members on both sides are extreme left-wing secular Jewish liberals. They’ve had the very best this country has to offer, were educated at the finest ivy schools, have “professional” jobs, and live in comfort and affluence. (In this way they are like Michelle Obama.)

Their “thanks” became misplaced. It didn’t result in an abiding love for the country, or a deep patriotism, or a call to serve. That would not have allowed them to show their superiority. Instead, since they had “superior” abilities and insights, they would use these to help those who don’t (have superior insights and abilities.)

In other words, they believe they have a moral obligation to help those they see as the dumb and stupid. It is the epitome of arrogance and condescension, and if you challenge them on it, they become enraged that their supposed benign and helpful motives are being questioned, or that they are surreptitiously trying to show their superiority.

Tom is a racist. He may be that weird liberal type that prefers a race not his own, making his racism even more noble. Or he may be the more usual type of racist, in the Michelle Obama mode. He believes in special accommodation’s/rules/behaviors for different groups, based upon what he sees as their unique historical situation. He believes in identifying characteristics, instead of content of character. And he trolls this site to enlighten the rest of us.

The Rev. John H. Thomas (UCC General Minister and President) essentially defended Jeremiah Wright’s hate-filled rhetoric by dismissing it as cherry picked nuggets that don’t reflect the whole “message” of TUCC

http://www.ucc.org/news/responding-to-wright.html

But what is really interesting is the last couple of paragraphs where he goes from defending Wright to essentially condemning the United States….

The gospel narrative of Palm Sunday’s entrance into Jerusalem concludes with the overturning of the money changers’ tables in the Temple courtyard. Here wealth and power and greed were challenged for the way the poor were oppressed to the point of exclusion from a share in the religious practices of the Temple. Today we watch as the gap between the obscenely wealthy and the obscenely poor widens. More and more of our neighbors are relegated to minimal health care or to no health care at all. Foreclosures destroy families while unscrupulous lenders seek bailouts from regulators who turned a blind eye to the impending crisis. Should the preacher today respond to this with only a whisper and a sigh?

Is Pastor Wright to be ridiculed and condemned for refusing to play the court prophet, blessing land and sovereign while pledging allegiance to our preoccupation with wealth and our fascination with weapons? In the United Church of Christ we honor diversity. For nearly four centuries we have respected dissent and have struggled to maintain the freedom of the pulpit. Not every pastor in the United Church of Christ will want to share Pastor Wright’s rhetoric or his politics. Not every member will rise to shout “Amen!” But I trust we will all struggle in our own way to resist the lure of respectable religion that seeks to displace evangelical faith. For what this nation needs is not so much polite piety as the rough and radical word of the prophet calling us to repentance. And, as we struggle with that ancient calling, I pray we will be shrewd enough to name the hypocrisy of those who decry the mixing of religion and politics in order to serve their own political ends.

Why, Rev. Thomas, should we not decry you as a hypocrite for mixing religion and politics for your own political ends when you combine Christ’s actions with the poverty gap, healthcare system, and mortgage companies? Just goes to prove what I’ve long suspected about the UCC.

Obama said he would quit.

So the question is- why hasn’t he quit?

He’s known about this nonsense for some time.

Once you say something like “THe US of KKKA” it’s going to be tough for me to accept that you have the least bit of interest in “coming together” not division.

It’s what you say when you think you’re going to get away with it that matters.

Again, the Wright makes a wrong.

Keemo on March 18, 2008 at 8:47 AM

I thought it was a textbook definition of a TROLL (Tom Shipley) to make vague-yet-outrageous posts to divert a thread and gain “attention.”

I also try best NOT to feed trolls.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/16/22303/4276/789/478220

This site has officially denounced Hillary, and is fully supporting Obama. Very telling indeed….

Ms. Obama’s message resonates nonetheless.

It’s going to resonate for certain, but in two ways- both predictable.

I do not believe Obama when he claims ignorance. It’s simply not feasible to believe that neither he nor his wife failed to attend church with their kids at all duting any of these venomous sermons.

If Obama really didn’t know, then he doesn’t know Wright and his judgment is poor for having selected him as his “great leader” and his “inspiration.”

If he knew then he’s a liar.

Either way it’s unacceptable. He’s known about this hate for a long time and has not until now decided to eject Wright.

What does that tell you?

See, we are now not allowed to judge Barry harshly, for fears of white people not being “inclusive” enough and “Diverse” enough.

Another artful dodge by the left, now they are rushing to build Barry back up again, to put him back together again.

Humpty Dumpty Obama.

I guess it is high time we put all of this bullshit on the table.

Of course Obama believes Wright. But like Wright said away from the pulpit about Obama’s campaign, Obama was going to find himself in hot water. Wright had no real idea that Obama would force Wright into immediate retirement. That church was Wright’s creation–HE built up that congregation, and now he’s being buried alive.

Obama will continue doing as is, renounce what the public rejects. The message was the old man’s, and Obama won’t take that away from the old man because that was the old man’s experience. But Obama is better than the old man. Obama is change, whatever that takes or means, that’s Obama. The same public prejudice “crazy old” mentality the MSM uses against McCain works in Obama’s favor dismissing Wright.

Who else saw PBS Obama interview last night, very low key, to appear above the fray, “smart” enough to talk a lot without saying a damn thing outside of the cushioned framework presented. Obama on the economy vs. Bush!

In fairness, though, Ms. Obama is a pretty good orator, and her “raising the bar” meme, while ultimately incoherent, is fairly potent stuff. She started from the idea that “they” have constantly raised the bar on her husband’s campaign. After he won Iowa, he had to prove he could win primaries; when he won primaries in one type of state, he had to prove he could win primaries in another type of state, etc.

Similarly, Ms. Obama contended, “they” are constantly raising the bar on the American people. Thus, folks keep reaching the bar only to find that it’s been set higher, just out of their reach. It is this diabolical reality that causes people to be fearful and isolated, and keeps us from coming together.

The notion of the moving bar lies, of course, at the core of the victim mentality. You hear it, for example, in employment discrimination case where the plaintiff claims to have done everything he or she was asked to do, only to be discriminatorily denied a promotion because the bar kept moving.

Most of the time, this reasoning is fallacious. In a dynamic society, the bar typically is not set by reference to pre-established standards; it’s set by reference to the performance and qualifications of the people one is competing with. Ironically, however, a presidential nomination race is an exception. For Obama (as for all other candidates) the bar is stationary – win more than half of the delegates and you’re the nominee.

Ms. Obama’s message resonates nonetheless. The bar may not moving in any way that is improper or unfair (except, I would argue, when it is lowered for minority groups pursuant to affirmative action). Still, having constantly to meet fluctuating standards set by competition, and having to worry about your employer’s ability to compete as well, is a recipe for significant anxiety.

However, the answer to coping does not lie in whining, much less in seeking artificially to restrict competition. Indeed, it is quite irresponsible for a politician to pretend that he or she can insulate people from this sort of anxiety. If anything will “keep us from coming together,” it is Ms. Obama’s combination of fear-mongering and over-promising.

The answer to coping lies in developing the skills and the mind-set that will maximize one’s ability to compete. By peddling a mind-set of victimization and by failing to support meaningful education reform out of deference to teachers’ unions, the Obamas, like nearly all modern-day liberals, represent the problem, not the solution. (powerline)