Obama to deliver “major speech” on race tomorrow; Update: The Jeremiah Wright I know

posted at 2:30 pm on March 17, 2008 by Allahpundit

Think it’ll have anything to do with the forces of division starting to raise their ugly heads?

Barack Obama will give a major speech on “the larger issue of race in this campaign,” he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.

He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

“I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign,” he said.

He added that he would “talk about how some of these issues are perceived from within the black church issue for example,” he said.

Maybe “the government lied about Pearl Harbor” is all a big cultural misunderstanding? Expect lots of redemption rhetoric about the Messiah rising like a phoenix from the ashes of the black nationalist movement he patronized for 20 years and how it’s objectively anti-progress to hold that inconvenient fact against him. Exit question: It’s good news, at least, that the congregation apparently no longer regards “Middleclassness” as some sort of vestige of slavery, isn’t it?

Update: Sounds like he’s going back to the cherry-picking defense, which, as others have pointed out, works for absolutely no one except Obama. Lott didn’t get a pass for it when he rued the day a segregationist like Strom Thurmond lost the presidential election; Michael Richards didn’t get a pass for it when he had a meltdown at that comedy club. The Messiah and his disciples are held to a different standard, thankfully.


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Tom,

Who have you won over with your arguments? Who have you persuaded with your debate skills?

JiangxiDad on March 17, 2008 at 9:10 PM

H&C at the church: Moss told the congregation to not speak to the media… beautiful! The ones who did speak (on the way in presumably) didn’t help his cause…Wright was right.

TheBigOldDog on March 17, 2008 at 9:12 PM

Tom, did you forget the links Baldi provided you earlier?

That post about the mission statement of the church is from one of those links.

Again, you’re skirting the issue. Take what I said and show me that I’m wrong in saying it. I don’t understand what is so hard about that.

I don’t see how anyone can take YOU seriously when you won’t address what I said directly, but instead post multiple times about how people don’t take me serious and I’m not smart and all this other BS that means absolutely nothing.

State your case. Again, saying I’m wrong is not stating a case. It’s stating an opinion and skirting the substance of what I’ve said.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM

“Don’t tell me words don’t matter. Just words? ‘God Damn America’ Just words? ‘U.S. of KKK-A.’ -just words?”

Pam on March 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM

Who have you won over with your arguments? Who have you persuaded with your debate skills?

I couldn’t tell you. Could very well be zero.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM

I couldn’t tell you. Could very well be zero.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:17 PM

Ya think?

Actually, if anything, you swing people the other way by defending the indefensible. So, I say, keep it up, and spread it around to other site too. The more the better.

TheBigOldDog on March 17, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Tom_Shipley

Could you give us your definition of ‘Racist’. No link just a brief definition.

Oldnuke on March 17, 2008 at 9:25 PM


Economic Chaos, Political Consequences

“Fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be a bumpy night!” –Margo Channing (Bette Davis) in All About Eve.

Bumpy is no word for it. The news coming out of Wall Street makes what the three presidential candidates are saying beside the point. Cancel the fun. The bad news also bids fair to change the daily lives of 300 million Americans. No, kidding, folks. What’s going on in the business world is as serious as it can get. Events unfolding this week on the lower end of Manhattan will cancel out all the projects John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been talking about.

McCain will have to deal with the home truth that, though he may dig up enough soldier boys for the Middle Eastern wars, there is no money to pay for them. And thanks to the ever-shrinking dollar, other countries are not going to lend us more money to carry them on. We have run out of money: it’s time to cut and run.

The billions that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama would have had to spend to do the wonderful things they are dangling in front of the voters do not exist. Tradition has always allowed campaigning candidates to make promises they will not make good on, but this time they are bumping up against the limits of the plausible, let alone the possible. It might be helpful if they would ease off with the pretty pictures.

MB4 on March 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM

State your case. Again, saying I’m wrong is not stating a case. It’s stating an opinion and skirting the substance of what I’ve said.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM

I think you state my case better than me. Here are just a few of your quotes from the past hour or so. I wish all of yours could be put together to see the picture of the liberal lunatic. Those who find you not to be a lunatic will surely speak up in your behalf.

How long do you stay here if you don’t convince anyone? Hours/day/weeks?

Can you image if you changed “black” to “white” on that list and imagine the outrage?

That statement, with either “white” or “black” used is not racist. Yes, if you use “white” is seems racist because this country has a long history of white-only organizations that promote whites as a superior race and use violence against blacks.

Obama’s church is not exclusive to blacks. It does not promote blacks as being a superior race and does not use violence against other races. from what I read, liberation theology was formed because black people didn’t think the Anglican church spoke to them. So they formed their own church that speaks to black values and mores. There are Italian-American churches that promote Italian culture.

In short, substituting the word “white” does make it seem racist because whites have a long history of racism in this country.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 8:09 P

There are Italian-American churches that promote Italian culture.

Yes, but do they promote Italy as the “mother” country? It isn’t the culture, it is the promotion of hatred. If you can’t see that, you must be a liberal.

Sue on March 17, 2008 at 8:16 PM

Yes, but do they promote Italy as the “mother” country?

I don’t know. Never been to a service at an Italian American church. But if they did, I don’t see the hatred in that statement.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Tom, you believe in racial inequality. In your world, Blacks can do and say things whites can’t. Doesn’t work like that. The election will show you.

JiangxiDad on March 17, 2008 at 9:28 PM

The Jeremiah Wright I know

What’s he talking about? In 23 years of semons he’s not heard one thing that Wright has said.

Mojave Mark on March 17, 2008 at 9:29 PM

I stand by everything I said. I’m VERY comfortable letting other people read what I said and deciding if you’re correct in saying I believe in racial inequality.

thank you.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:31 PM

I can’t seem to find any info on the “Italian Power” movement Tom……

Can you help?

DWB on March 17, 2008 at 9:31 PM

I stand by everything I said. I’m VERY comfortable letting other people read what I said and deciding if you’re correct in saying I believe in racial inequality.

thank you.

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:31 PM

Tom, they decided. That’s why I asked you who agrees with you.

JiangxiDad on March 17, 2008 at 9:33 PM

Tom, they decided.

So, not only do you know all about my me, what I’m all about, but you know what anonymous people reading this site think. You have some very special powers!

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM

Just posted on Drudge Report:

MAJOR POLITICAL BOMBSHELL: DEVELOPING

……………no story, just headline.

mmmmm related to Obama?

moxie_neanderthal on March 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM

MAJOR POLITICAL BOMBSHELL: DEVELOPING

……………no story, just headline.

mmmmm related to Obama?

moxie_neanderthal on March 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM

Bill Clinton named client number 3?

Hillary Clinton named client number 6?

MB4 on March 17, 2008 at 9:51 PM

So, not only do you know all about my me, what I’m all about, but you know what anonymous people reading this site think. You have some very special powers!

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM

Tom, are all your supporters anonymous? There were many detractors who commented against you all day. Methinks you doth protest too much.

JiangxiDad on March 17, 2008 at 9:52 PM

MB4 on March 17, 2008 at 9:51 PM

Another NY Gov Sex Scandal…

TheBigOldDog on March 17, 2008 at 9:55 PM

Another NY Gov Sex Scandal…

TheBigOldDog on March 17, 2008 at 9:55 PM

Drat!

I was hoping for something a little more juicy.

MB4 on March 17, 2008 at 9:59 PM

Just posted on Drudge Report:

MAJOR POLITICAL BOMBSHELL: DEVELOPING

……………no story, just headline.

mmmmm related to Obama?

moxie_neanderthal on March 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM

Here ya go!

NY DAILY NEWS: Hours after he’s sworn in, new NY Gov. Paterson Confesses Affair…

O.K., no more off topic from me.

a capella on March 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM

Ms. Liberal herself, Greta, must be pissed about this. She’s showing all the clips…lol.

SouthernGent on March 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM

He has an excuse, he was blind.

He could say he thought it was his wife, or that it was RRRICH WHITEE PEOPLLEEEEE!!! that did it.

benrand on March 17, 2008 at 10:11 PM

Great. Another speech with nice reverb and pace, and loaded with a vocabulary that will be foreign to his supporters. It will sound great, but at the end no one will know what the hell he just said.

THE CHOSEN ONE on March 17, 2008 at 10:13 PM

So they formed their own church that speaks to black values and mores.

can someone define and explain black values and mores?

peacenprosperity on March 17, 2008 at 10:32 PM

What I find hilarious is that barry’s alibi for the day he was accused of attending a racist, anti-American sermon was that he was giving a speach to a racist, anti-American organization.

peacenprosperity on March 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM

Tom,

Could agree that things have progressively (you like that word, don’t you?) improved over the years in regards to race relations? This will change that, for the worse. I hope only in the short term.

Do you not realize a man of color is/was on the brink of POTUS? The highest office in this country. He could have pulled it off if he was genuine to his message. He is not, and you know it.

In this case, I think you can shoot messenger AND the message.

MarkABinVA on March 17, 2008 at 11:05 PM

peacenprosperity on March 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM

Serious? Come one?!

MarkABinVA on March 17, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Tom,

Could you….

MarkABinVA on March 17, 2008 at 11:06 PM

What I find hilarious is that barry’s alibi for the day he was accused of attending a racist, anti-American sermon was that he was giving a speach to a racist, anti-American organization.

peacenprosperity on March 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM

Heh.

Jaibones on March 17, 2008 at 11:14 PM

I suspect the next famous quote of the century for tomorrow to be much like last century’s Nixon quote:
“Because people have to know if their President is a crook.
Well, I’m not a crook”

I predict it will go something like this:
“Because people have to know if their candidate is a racist.
Well, I’m not a racist”

Nobody believed Nixon.

Kini on March 17, 2008 at 11:21 PM

I wonder if Chris Matthews will be there humping his leg like a crazed terrier during the speech.

Django on March 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM

By the way, it’s been ages since I said “Obama’s a socialist douchebag”, and so I have.

Jaibones on March 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Just testing if this worked. Yes I do have some opinions and will be back….

pulaski on March 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Oh noes…

Annotating “On Why Obama Has Already Lost”

Connie on March 17, 2008 at 11:53 PM

Jaibones on March 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM

I haven’t said “dittos” in awhile either. So now I have.

Connie on March 17, 2008 at 11:54 PM

a speech “on the larger issue of race in this campaign”

This isn’t about race. It’s about
1) hatred of this “rich, white” country
2) several irrational conspiracy theories
3) 20-yr loyalty to a so-called church that’s full of wackos
4) what did BO know, & when did he know it

jgapinoy on March 18, 2008 at 12:15 AM

“I think Obama is smart to try to frame this debate on race. He is trying to make this a black/white discussion instead of a love America/hate America discussion. This story only really started getting traction in the media with the blame America first rhetoric….I think Obama knows if he can get this turned into a pure race issue, he can survive because Americans will allow a “little anger” from an African-American. Americans will not allow for a “Marxist” who hates their Country.”
chief on March 17, 2008 at 4:17 PM

Dude…very accurate and perceptive analysis. I think that’s exactly what the Obamessiah will try to do. “You see, this is all about white Amerika’s tragic white history of white racism, not the Amerika-hating racism of my pastor and my wife.”

Django on March 18, 2008 at 12:18 AM

I think he will attribute his attendance at the church to intrigue and research tomorrow.

MarkABinVA on March 18, 2008 at 12:29 AM

jgapinoy on March 18, 2008 at 12:15 AM

Points 1-4 are well taken.

You don’t think there’s a racist component in there?
After all, there are “rich black’ people in this country also.

Kini on March 18, 2008 at 12:42 AM

Kini

OK, it is about race…after points 1-4.
I should’ve said it’s not merely about race.
I stand corrected.

jgapinoy on March 18, 2008 at 12:50 AM

There are rich black people

Yes–despite Wright’s assertion to the contrary, BO is rich!

jgapinoy on March 18, 2008 at 12:52 AM

A speech on race in America? Hand that man a shovel, he’s not deep enough.

Dollayo on March 18, 2008 at 1:19 AM

If Obama makes it about Race, that’s a loser too.

Recall, the largest voting demo slice is white working class men, at 25%. Whites are still about 70% of the population and about about the same of voters.

Obama is now being defined in the public mind as a sneaky, lying, duplicitous guy who pretends to be “nice” in public but is all about “hate Whitey”(tm) in private. Expect comedians and such to run with it because it will get laughs (Kimmel probably will run with it what will he lose?)

Obama can only win if it’s NOT about race and he’s not racist. Too late for that.

The uber-liberal rich white yuppies guilty about their money and competing about status (Larry David territory on Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm) will go with Obama if it’s about race, but that’s it. Working and middle class whites (the majority) will see a guy by definition hostile to everything they have and stand for and a risk they can’t take. If you are barely getting by and want to hang on to what you have you become profoundly and deeply conservative. Averse to risk. It’s only when you have nothing or everything that risk is rewarding.

You don’t see too many middle class people holding up liquor stores or base jumping. Which in a nutshell is Obama’s support.

whiskey_199 on March 18, 2008 at 1:23 AM

Except, of course, the working white class folks who lost all their savings in McCain’s S&L meltdown, whiskey.

Unless he invites them over for a BBQ at his mansion in Sedona.

alphie on March 18, 2008 at 2:14 AM

The empty suit is losing its starch.

You can see in in his expression.

“WTF!”

Not intelligent enough to have ditched his psycho-pastor sooner, he now sinks in mess the “Blackness” silliness.

NoBama.

profitsbeard on March 18, 2008 at 2:16 AM

I wonder if Chris Matthews will be there humping his leg like a crazed terrier during the speech.

Django on March 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM

Yup. Hopefully we don’t have to watch the money shot.

Roebuck on March 18, 2008 at 4:46 AM

An excellent article “Is Obama Trying to Bamboozle Us with His Wright Denials?”:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/is_obama_trying_to_bamboozle_u.html

Lockstein13 on March 18, 2008 at 5:05 AM

Perfectly good explaination about how Obama went to the church for 20 years and yet never heard any inflammatory statements: He sleeps in church.

p40tiger on March 18, 2008 at 6:01 AM

“Is Obama Trying to Bamboozle Us with His Wright Denials?”

The bamboozled are easily bamboozled and are already bamboozled because they allowed themselves to be bamboozled by this bamboozler.

Barry will be trying to bamboozle the wrong RICH WHHIIIITE PEOOOOPLEEEE!!!!

benrand on March 18, 2008 at 6:08 AM

I knew Obama-boy was a commie, and I knew he and his wife disliked America. All I had to do was read what he/she was saying and look at the pictures. What I failed to recognize was how insane many of the voting public had become. He should be drummed out of the Senate but instead he’s running for POTUS. This is Alice in Wonderland.

Also it’s been my experience that the black communities in the US are far more racist today than the white. And they actually believe they have a right to be so.

fgmorley on March 18, 2008 at 6:17 AM

Rather than repeat it in this thread, here’s a link to a comment I posted in another thread.

Red Pill on March 18, 2008 at 6:39 AM

If he’s half the con artist he seem to be, he’ll raise his soulful eyes high to the heavens and seem to address black America, telling them that their rancour must stop. We gotta stop it…we gotta stop it…we gotta stop it…NOW!
The real audience of course is White America, who I fear will lap it up.

dhimwit on March 18, 2008 at 7:04 AM

He could have pulled it off if he was genuine to his message. He is not, and you know it.

I think he is genuine to his message. There’s nothing that he has said or done that make me think he shares these views with Wright.

Could agree that things have progressively (you like that word, don’t you?) improved over the years in regards to race relations? This will change that, for the worse. I hope only in the short term.

Absolutely, things have improved. Doesn’t mean everything is hunky dorey.

And what will change that? Obama’s speech? I’m not following you here.

In this case, I think you can shoot messenger AND the message.

Rather unfortunate use of words, don’t you think?

As far as the speech goes today, my hunch is that Obama will address Wright’s controversial remarks, which are actually believed by not more than a few in the black community. I think he’ll challange them and call on them to come to put aside conspiracy theories like that in order to come together as a nation.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 7:51 AM

Last night, C-SPAN presented a campaign speech by Michelle Obama. The theme of the speech was how “they” are always raising the bar. And you can certainly understand why Ms. Obama feels this way. No sooner has she paid for music lessons for her kids than it’s summer and she has to pay for special camps. No sooner has she adjusted to being a Senator’s wife (on only $1 million per year), than she’s got to help her husband campaign for president.

In fairness, though, Ms. Obama is a pretty good orator, and her “raising the bar” meme, while ultimately incoherent, is fairly potent stuff. She started from the idea that “they” have constantly raised the bar on her husband’s campaign. After he won Iowa, he had to prove he could win primaries; when he won primaries in one type of state, he had to prove he could win primaries in another type of state, etc.

Similarly, Ms. Obama contended, “they” are constantly raising the bar on the American people. Thus, folks keep reaching the bar only to find that it’s been set higher, just out of their reach. It is this diabolical reality that causes people to be fearful and isolated, and keeps us from coming together.

The notion of the moving bar lies, of course, at the core of the victim mentality. You hear it, for example, in employment discrimination case where the plaintiff claims to have done everything he or she was asked to do, only to be discriminatorily denied a promotion because the bar kept moving.

Most of the time, this reasoning is fallacious. In a dynamic society, the bar typically is not set by reference to pre-established standards; it’s set by reference to the performance and qualifications of the people one is competing with. Ironically, however, a presidential nomination race is an exception. For Obama (as for all other candidates) the bar is stationary – win more than half of the delegates and you’re the nominee.

Ms. Obama’s message resonates nonetheless. The bar may not moving in any way that is improper or unfair (except, I would argue, when it is lowered for minority groups pursuant to affirmative action). Still, having constantly to meet fluctuating standards set by competition, and having to worry about your employer’s ability to compete as well, is a recipe for significant anxiety.

However, the answer to coping does not lie in whining, much less in seeking artificially to restrict competition. Indeed, it is quite irresponsible for a politician to pretend that he or she can insulate people from this sort of anxiety. If anything will “keep us from coming together,” it is Ms. Obama’s combination of fear-mongering and over-promising.

The answer to coping lies in developing the skills and the mind-set that will maximize one’s ability to compete. By peddling a mind-set of victimization and by failing to support meaningful education reform out of deference to teachers’ unions, the Obamas, like nearly all modern-day liberals, represent the problem, not the solution. (powerline)

Keemo on March 18, 2008 at 8:16 AM

It boils down to delivery and timing.

Of course Obama believes Wright. But like Wright said away from the pulpit about Obama’s campaign, Obama was going to find himself in hot water. Wright had no real idea that Obama would force Wright into immediate retirement. That church was Wright’s creation–HE built up that congregation, and now he’s being buried alive.

Obama will continue doing as is, renounce what the public rejects. The message was the old man’s, and Obama won’t take that away from the old man because that was the old man’s experience. But Obama is better than the old man. Obama is change, whatever that takes or means, that’s Obama. The same public prejudice “crazy old” mentality the MSM uses against McCain works in Obama’s favor dismissing Wright.

Who else saw PBS Obama interview last night, very low key, to appear above the fray, “smart” enough to talk a lot without saying a damn thing outside of the cushioned framework presented. Obama on the economy vs. Bush!

maverick muse on March 18, 2008 at 8:25 AM

And who is surprised at the obvious result of the calls for “diversity”.

See, we are now not allowed to judge Barry harshly, for fears of white people not being “inclusive” enough and “Diverse” enough.

Another artful dodge by the left, now they are rushing to build Barry back up again, to put him back together again.

Humpty Dumpty Obama.

I guess it is high time we put all of this bullshit on the table.

benrand on March 18, 2008 at 8:33 AM

What will be revealed some day by the Righteous Judge is that people like Obama and Wright are the ultimate hypocrites. The liberals, whether theologians, MSM, politicians et al are revisionist of historical fact. Why don’t brother Obama and Uncle Wright point out the true facts that African leaders in Africa were rich greedy blacks who sold their fellow man to Arab slave traders who then sold them to western nation colonists? The concept is too painful to accept as any truth to a liberal is. Obama’s speech at the convention indicts him and Wright for truly no other country on earth has provided blacks with the freedom and opportunities as this country has. Wright is probably trying to find solace in his black liberation theology but I’m afraid all his identity politics and his deep soul bitterness chickens have come home to roost in his coop and their poop is starting to smell all over the world.

wepeople on March 18, 2008 at 8:35 AM

Ms. Obama’s message resonates nonetheless.

It’s going to resonate for certain, but in two ways- both predictable.

I do not believe Obama when he claims ignorance. It’s simply not feasible to believe that neither he nor his wife failed to attend church with their kids at all duting any of these venomous sermons.

If Obama really didn’t know, then he doesn’t know Wright and his judgment is poor for having selected him as his “great leader” and his “inspiration.”

If he knew then he’s a liar.

Either way it’s unacceptable. He’s known about this hate for a long time and has not until now decided to eject Wright.

What does that tell you?

drjohn on March 18, 2008 at 8:37 AM

Understanding the mind of a Liberal is difficult, maybe impossible. I have engaged in many long winded arguments with Tom Shipley through the years over at Captains Quarters. I finally stopped arguing with the man when I realized that I will never understand how this man’s mind works. A friend of mine suggested that I read KOS for an entire week, just to get a feel for how much these types really hate their country. I did just that, and I came away realizing not only how much these types hate America, but just how much these types hate in general. A simple look at this link tells the story.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/16/22303/4276/789/478220

This site has officially denounced Hillary, and is fully supporting Obama. Very telling indeed….

Keemo on March 18, 2008 at 8:47 AM

Keemo on March 18, 2008 at 8:47 AM

I thought it was a textbook definition of a TROLL (Tom Shipley) to make vague-yet-outrageous posts to divert a thread and gain “attention.”

I also try best NOT to feed trolls.

Lockstein13 on March 18, 2008 at 9:09 AM

Major Garrett asked Obama if Obama would quit his church if he had learned of the hate being spewed by Wright.

Obama said he would quit.

So the question is- why hasn’t he quit?

He’s known about this nonsense for some time.

Once you say something like “THe US of KKKA” it’s going to be tough for me to accept that you have the least bit of interest in “coming together” not division.

It’s what you say when you think you’re going to get away with it that matters.

Again, the Wright makes a wrong.

drjohn on March 18, 2008 at 9:14 AM

I found this interesting.

The Rev. John H. Thomas (UCC General Minister and President) essentially defended Jeremiah Wright’s hate-filled rhetoric by dismissing it as cherry picked nuggets that don’t reflect the whole “message” of TUCC

http://www.ucc.org/news/responding-to-wright.html

But what is really interesting is the last couple of paragraphs where he goes from defending Wright to essentially condemning the United States….

The gospel narrative of Palm Sunday’s entrance into Jerusalem concludes with the overturning of the money changers’ tables in the Temple courtyard. Here wealth and power and greed were challenged for the way the poor were oppressed to the point of exclusion from a share in the religious practices of the Temple. Today we watch as the gap between the obscenely wealthy and the obscenely poor widens. More and more of our neighbors are relegated to minimal health care or to no health care at all. Foreclosures destroy families while unscrupulous lenders seek bailouts from regulators who turned a blind eye to the impending crisis. Should the preacher today respond to this with only a whisper and a sigh?

Is Pastor Wright to be ridiculed and condemned for refusing to play the court prophet, blessing land and sovereign while pledging allegiance to our preoccupation with wealth and our fascination with weapons? In the United Church of Christ we honor diversity. For nearly four centuries we have respected dissent and have struggled to maintain the freedom of the pulpit. Not every pastor in the United Church of Christ will want to share Pastor Wright’s rhetoric or his politics. Not every member will rise to shout “Amen!” But I trust we will all struggle in our own way to resist the lure of respectable religion that seeks to displace evangelical faith. For what this nation needs is not so much polite piety as the rough and radical word of the prophet calling us to repentance. And, as we struggle with that ancient calling, I pray we will be shrewd enough to name the hypocrisy of those who decry the mixing of religion and politics in order to serve their own political ends.

Why, Rev. Thomas, should we not decry you as a hypocrite for mixing religion and politics for your own political ends when you combine Christ’s actions with the poverty gap, healthcare system, and mortgage companies? Just goes to prove what I’ve long suspected about the UCC.

highhopes on March 18, 2008 at 9:24 AM

Understanding the mind of a Liberal is difficult, maybe impossible. I have engaged in many long winded arguments with Tom Shipley through the years over at Captains Quarters. I finally stopped arguing with the man when I realized that I will never understand how this man’s mind works

All of my family members on both sides are extreme left-wing secular Jewish liberals. They’ve had the very best this country has to offer, were educated at the finest ivy schools, have “professional” jobs, and live in comfort and affluence. (In this way they are like Michelle Obama.)

Their “thanks” became misplaced. It didn’t result in an abiding love for the country, or a deep patriotism, or a call to serve. That would not have allowed them to show their superiority. Instead, since they had “superior” abilities and insights, they would use these to help those who don’t (have superior insights and abilities.)

In other words, they believe they have a moral obligation to help those they see as the dumb and stupid. It is the epitome of arrogance and condescension, and if you challenge them on it, they become enraged that their supposed benign and helpful motives are being questioned, or that they are surreptitiously trying to show their superiority.

Tom is a racist. He may be that weird liberal type that prefers a race not his own, making his racism even more noble. Or he may be the more usual type of racist, in the Michelle Obama mode. He believes in special accommodation’s/rules/behaviors for different groups, based upon what he sees as their unique historical situation. He believes in identifying characteristics, instead of content of character. And he trolls this site to enlighten the rest of us.

JiangxiDad on March 18, 2008 at 9:24 AM

So, not only do you know all about my me, what I’m all about, but you know what anonymous people reading this site think. You have some very special powers!

Tom_Shipley on March 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM

Well, I’ve been anonymous on this thread until now and I, for one, agree 110% with JiangxiDad… and Baldi… and TheBigOldDog…

You are being purposefully dense either because you enjoy pushing people’s buttons or (worse) you are actually that clueless.

And I agree with others… It’s pointless to discuss this with you because you refuse to see the obvious and you won’t convince me of your “point of view” or “nuanced view” or whatever it is you call your delusion.

Nineball on March 18, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Tom is a racist.

Honky, please!

Let’s just take a look at the post in which you base your racist claim.

Can you image if you changed “black” to “white” on that list and imagine the outrage?

That statement, with either “white” or “black” used is not racist. Yes, if you use “white” is seems racist because this country has a long history of white-only organizations that promote whites as a superior race and use violence against blacks.

Obama’s church is not exclusive to blacks. It does not promote blacks as being a superior race and does not use violence against other races. from what I read, liberation theology was formed because black people didn’t think the Anglican church spoke to them. So they formed their own church that speaks to black values and mores. There are Italian-American churches that promote Italian culture.

In short, substituting the word “white” does make it seem racist because whites have a long history of racism in this country.

As can you read, I don’t think the statement is racist with either “white” or “black” used. Racist being the promotion of one race over another teaching the inferiority of certain races.

Whoever originally posted the mission statement said: “Imagine the outrage if “black” were replaced with “white”.

I actually agreed with him that there would be outrage, but it’s because there’s been a painfull history all-white organizations teaching that blacks were an inferior race and using the law and violence to keep them oppressed.

When people hear a group promoting “white” values they immediately think of groups like the KKK, who aside from promoting those values, denigrated other races.

As I said before there are other “ethnic” churches and organizations that promote the culture of their “motherlands,” who speak to the specific issues that face the specific group. But, they are not exclusive, they do not use violence and they do not teach that their group is superior to others. The latter is what defines racism.

Obama’s church accepts white members. It doesn’t preach that white people are inherently evil. It doesn’t promote that blacks are a superior race. That mission statement in and of itself is not racist.

Now, Wright has said some hateful things in regards to white people, yes. No doubt that hatred has its roots in slavery. This latent anger is there and has been there for a long time. You saw it after Katrina. You see it in some of these sermons. I don’t think it’s right. And I don’t think Obama thinks it’s right either. And I believe that his speech will address this today.

I’m sure Obama has been exposed to this kind of thinking living in the community he has for the past 20 years. Not necessarily the controversial Wright sermons that floated around the Web, but if you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

Obama will come out today and address the issue as being a ‘typical black pastor’ but a good man with some extreme views he disagrees with.

The media will concur with declaring the issue done, over, fine’.

Anyone who, after today, brings up the racist pastor and Obama’s 20 years of sitting in the pews in agreement, will be branded a racist.

It’s a typical political maneuver.

“I addressed it before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

cntrlfrk on March 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM

OBamboozle and his wife Omamanatrix said their church is one “that you would feel at home in”

faraway on March 18, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Obamanatrix (sorry its not in my spellchecker)

faraway on March 18, 2008 at 10:13 AM

It’s a typical political maneuver.

“I addressed it before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

cntrlfrk on March 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM

A maneuver McCain will use as well…”I addressed the Iseman issue before, I’m not going to address it again, stop talking now.”

Even though he previously confessed to at least three people that he did in fact have an affair with her.

Red Pill on March 18, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Now, Wright has said some hateful things in regards to white people, yes. No doubt that hatred has its roots in slavery. This latent anger is there and has been there for a long time. You saw it after Katrina. You see it in some of these sermons. I don’t think it’s right. And I don’t think Obama thinks it’s right either. And I believe that his speech will address this today.

I’m sure Obama has been exposed to this kind of thinking living in the community he has for the past 20 years. Not necessarily the controversial Wright sermons that floated around the Web, but if you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

The racism is only part of the problem contained in the larger picture of anti-Americanism. Do you deny that Wright’s sermons reflect a constant theme of propaganda against America? And, that the congregation, judging by their response, also endorse those views? Why did Obama maintain membership in a church whose members enthusiastically support hate speech against America and claim primary loyalty to Africa? He can’t pretend ignorance of that hate, and whatever he says tonight can’t offset his participation in it.

a capella on March 18, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Do you deny that Wright’s sermons reflect a constant theme of propaganda against America?

I’ve only seen about 30 seconds of Wright’s sermons, so really can’t say.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM

I’ve only seen about 30 seconds of Wright’s sermons, so really can’t say.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Heh.

a capella on March 18, 2008 at 10:23 AM

f you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

Fair enough. I expect demand that he calls for an immediate and universal end to teaching hate from the pulpit. Any hate, from any pulpit.

RushBaby on March 18, 2008 at 10:24 AM

Come on, Tom. The entire notion of a “Value System” unique to people whose genetic code includes a strong predisposition to a particular skin tone is paradigmatically racist. A theology that holds that people of a certain color have a special place in God’s heart can be nothing but racist.

Let’s try a little intellectual honesty here. Pastor Wright doesn’t insist on adherence to the Black Value System because he believes that it is inferior. He also doesn’t insist on it because he believes that it as good as, but no better than the “White Value System”. He requires it of his parish because he holds the Black Value System to be superior. Thus he believes in the superiority of the values he associates with a group whose defining characteristic is race. That, by definition, is racist.

Really, this is not hard.

jl on March 18, 2008 at 11:03 AM

If you live in a black community, you’ll hear stuff like that. It’s there. Doesn’t mean he believes it. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Everything Obama’s said and done in his political life has shown me that he wants to mend this racial rift and end this kind of thinking. Let’s see what he has to say today.

Tom_Shipley on March 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM

What he says will be only pablum.

I would never stay at a church that sermonized “God Damn Black America” and promoted hate, even if it was only a few weeks each year.

There’s no excuse.

The fact that this type of rhetoric goes on is more the reason for continued hatred than anything else. They’re using these words to sell DVD’s for fund raising.

‘Nuf said.

Besides, “Come Together” is stolen from the Beatles.

drjohn on March 18, 2008 at 11:10 AM

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