p40tiger on March 17, 2008 at 10:37 PM

When Mao and his thugs went on the rampage, they killed around fifty million of the brightest and best so that they could set up their cesspit.
If that’s loving their country, they can keep it!

p40tiger on March 17, 2008 at 10:37 PM

Thank you.

There is this overwhelming belief among Americans that everyone else in the world is just like us. That they think the same and want the same things. Materially, they might.

But what is obvious to us is not obvious to them, and what every Chinese, or Indian, or Indonesian child knows for a fact, American children don’t have a clue about.

They have different values, different priorities and different beliefs. The last is important. I’m not talking about their beliefs in the sense of where they go on Sunday morning and the rituals they observe. I am talking about the bedrock things that your life and our culture take as absolutes.

Myself, I have been around Thais almost every day for the past 40 years. I have been married to a Thai for 36 years. I speak Thai. I enjoy Thai music and Thai food. I have lived there and in the U.S. with some stops in between.

And every once in a while someone will say something that will take me aback because no American would ever think such a thing.

I’ve developed an outlook that helps me understand, to my small capabilities. If you think everyone else is just like us, you’re wrong. If you think everyone else is totally different, you’re wrong too.

Chinese are intensely nationalist. I don’t think we understand just how strong that sentiment is. Do you realize that most of the people in China support their government? Beijing is not teetering on the brink of losing power. On the contrary, the vast majority of Chinese live better and more comfortably than their parents could ever dream of. Even the people who are “oppressed” in our minds, like Christians, do not wish for a change in regime, and most would defend their government in an argument.

Boycotting the olympics sounds good, and I half wish we could too, but it would be a huge mistake. It would make the people of China dispise us for a generation. One commenter mentioned that the people are capitalists. I agree with that, but if we get harsh with their government, they’ll be capitalists who will hate us, and who will actively support and strengthen the ChiCom government.

We need to do what we can diplomatically, and financially, but any knee-jerk reaction would cause bad blood, not just between Beijing and Washington, but between the Chinese people at large and the USA and American ideals. It has happened before. We should not let it happen again.

The Butchers of Beijing have never learned that their human rights violations have consequences.

Also, contrary to what some have suggested, attending the games will have the same effect that it did last time – none!

If I make the USA track & field team this summer and by the grace of God win my event I’ll have a huge Tibetan flag in my parade lap around the track.

olympian2008 on March 17, 2008 at 2:49 PM

Good luck on making the team. I hope you protect your lungs while you are there. I think a better protest would be having all the athletes wearing O2 masks the whole time they are there(except for when competing)

…Beijing needs to negotiate an end to the violence in Tibet and possibly some autonomy for Tibet in the very near future or the USA will pull out of the Olympics…You cannot insult Beijing, but you can persuade them to reflect on the money and loss of pride that a boycott of the Olympics would bring.
slp on March 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM

I think it’s exatly the opposite. It seems to me that any giving in on Tibet under pressure would be seen as losing face, not a popular idea in China.

I objected to the 1980 boycott, and I laughed at the Soviets in 84 for attempting some sort of payback.” However, I’ve been dreading the coming Bejing Games. The media will fawn and drool all over these vile godless pigs and try really hard to pass along the propaganda of a “New China”, which is total BS.

So, if I were an athlete today, I would go all out to make the team, then once on it, would hold a HUGE press conference announcing a personal boycott and then list the many reasons for it (complete with pictures!). After, I would wish my fellow athletes the best of luck and encourage them to “follow their own hearts”. Then I would smile, thank everyone for coming, and quietly walk off the world stage.

Gartrip on March 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM

The media will fawn and drool over the Chinese propaganda if they can see any of the events through the Beijing pollution. One prominent distance athlete has already dropped out of the men’s Olympic marathon because of pollution concerns. He was a favorite to medal. Story on Haile Gebrseleassie here.

I’m also against a boycott. The best way athletes from western countries can protest the violence in Tibet is to carry Tibetan flags in the opening ceremony and after any gold medal winning performance carry their country’s flag with the Tibetan flag in celebration. Also bring the Tibetan flag to any medal ceremonies. This would irk the Chinese government to no end.

If I make the USA track & field team this summer and by the grace of God win my event I’ll have a huge Tibetan flag in my parade lap around the track.

1. While there are ‘experts’ out there who will point to generous labor laws, etc in China, what they fail to point out is that 2/3 or more of the laborers in eastern China are ‘illegal’ – China has an internal passport system like the soviets did, and many peasants who have gone to the east to work in factories are therefore illegal, and not subject to the laws, and are subject to horrible pay and conditions.
2. All companies set up in China have a silent partner – the government. This allows high level strategy to be set by the politburo. While they are earning hard revenue, a chunk is sent back to the gov’t for the furtherance of their goals.
3. Unlike 1990s Russia, there is much less cowboy capitalism. While there is a growing middle class in China, with increased purchasing power, the overall goals of the party are still the paramount consideration there.

My guess is that the leaders of China saw the wild ride of the Russians, and decided that allowing a bit of capitalism in could bring in the necessary hard currency to keep themselves in power, and are working a high-wire act to allow just enough freedom to keep the net-loss communist system from becoming bankrupt, but not enough to allow a violet (or other color) revolution to take place.
While corporate penny-wise and pound-foolish CEOs insist on buying LCC products, we as consumers can vote with our dollars to indicate that we prefer more legitimate capitalism.

Think_b4_speaking on March 17, 2008 at 2:04 PM

apparently not. :)

i will accept your greater experience and reconsider my assumptions (seriously, i will :)). my assumptions are that there are few taxes on the people and great economic freedom both for people and business – possibly too much at times. anyway, unfettered capitalism, often called cowboy capitalism here.

i do not base these asssumptions on any real business experience or extended research or education; simply anecdotal experience. maybe it is not enough (i currently live in china, but it is not in any great inside or informed capacity).

fair enough.

economically, china is about as communist as america is. in fact, america is closer to communism than china is (again, economically speaking).

now, as for human rights, well, that is another story, of course.

you should think before you speak. :)

truecon on March 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM

Apparently, you have not spent much time there, nor negotiated contracts there, which I have….

Think_b4_speaking on March 17, 2008 at 1:35 PM

economically, china is about as communist as america is. in fact, america is closer to communism than china is (again, economically speaking).

now, as for human rights, well, that is another story, of course.

you should think before you speak. :)

dingbat on March 17, 2008 at 1:39 PM

One of the primary old world foundations of Chinese thought and society is the old concept of Face… its part honor, and part putting on a good public showing…

They will loose tremendous “Face” if we boycot the Olympics.

As to the Chinese American Trade defecit? In January ALONE it was 17.9 BILLION dollars. Thats almost 18 BILLION they now have that we don’t NO econcomy can sustain the export of that much wealth for an extended period of time… as we have…

the last FIRST place to turn

So, if I were an athlete today, I would go all out to make the team, then once on it, would hold a HUGE press conference announcing a personal boycott and then list the many reasons for it (complete with pictures!). After, I would wish my fellow athletes the best of luck and encourage them to “follow their own hearts”. Then I would smile, thank everyone for coming, and quietly walk off the world stage.

your shot at walmart implies your bias against the capitalist system not China.

kongzilla on March 17, 2008 at 1:17 PM

That’s pretty funny. The last remaining communist country that has a financial impact on the world economy is China. If one disliked capitalism, the last place to turn would be China; that is an illogical argument. Capitalism, of which I am a defender, excels when producing superior products and increasing utility to the buyer – it is a cheap form of capitalism that relies on near slave labor (trust me, I’ve been there to see it) and shoddy product QAQC to get an extra couple of percent on sales.

I worked in China (Dalian) for 18 months. I was looking forward to going back for the Olympics in Beijing and visiting Dalian once again. Needless to say, I am sure I would have dropped $5k to $10k into China’s economy. Well, forget that. I’ll go someplace here in the States.

That is my personal boycott. That is $5k to $10k of my money they won’t have.

For one thing, limiting yourself to major retailers is your problem. Try local vendors, who provide safe products and actually believe in customer service,

I support local business as much as I can but that doesn’t change the fact the items they sell are usually made in China too. You simply cannot deny that a vast majority of our goods are produced over there. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but your shot at walmart implies your bias against the capitalist system not China.

Please enlighten us to the major retailers that don’t sell products made in China.

kongzilla on March 17, 2008 at 12:38 PM

For one thing, limiting yourself to major retailers is your problem. Try local vendors, who provide safe products and actually believe in customer service, while not charging much, if any, more than big boxes. Have a look at this story, which shows the trend back to quality vendors, instead of ‘major retailers’ who understaff their stores and push LCC crap into the market. http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/103273/NOT-Made-in-China

Over the past few years, I have reduced my intake of Chinese products by over 90%, with no major logistical issues, and for very little increase in costs.

and avoid retailers in the States that push their products (ie: WalMart).

Nice, a shot at WalMart! Please enlighten us to the major retailers that don’t sell products made in China.