Trench warfare to Denver; Update: Superdelegates leaning towards Obama?
posted at 10:00 am on March 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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According to Politico, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have despaired of any outright victory before the Democratic convention in Denver this August. The delegate math doesn’t allow for either to win without the superdelegates, and so the remaining contests will matter more for their symbolism rather than their actual delegate counts, especially for Hillary. Can she frighten enough superdelegates about Obama’s prospects against McCain to get them to support her despite being behind in pledged delegates?
Yes, there will be the usual commercials, speeches and town halls in the remaining states. But the prime audience for the candidates isn’t to be found in Altoona, Evansville or Chapel Hill. The voters will merely be playing a supporting role in a race likely to be decided by the party’s superdelegates.
Clinton’s overarching mission now is to raise doubts about Obama’s viability as a general election candidate with the superdelegates who will ultimately decide the outcome. The primary results, then, are relevant only to the extent they drive—or, for Obama, dispel—that argument.
“We believe that [the Pennsylvania results] will show that Hillary is ready to win, and that Sen. Obama really can’t win the general election,” said Clinton’s chief strategist Mark Penn on a conference call with reporters Thursday.
Penn subsequently modified his analysis to say that losing Pennsylvania would only raise questions about Obama’s ability to win in November. But the point was made nonetheless.
Penn took a lot of heat for his pessimistic analysis over Obama’s general-election chances, and that points up the danger for Democrats over what Jonathan Martin and Mike Allen call World War I-style trench warfare. The two candidates have to lob some bombs at each other in order to make the case for their brokered nominations. That means a higher level of negative campaigning that normally seen in primaries, as both candidates will have to play on the fears of the superdelegates to compel their support.
For instance, Hillary’s argument will be to appeal to the reason the Democrats set aside 20% of their delegate total to superdelegates in the first place. She has to argue that Obama doesn’t have the experience or the background to win a general election, an argument that got a lot more traction after the revelation of Jeremiah Wright’s sermons this week. She also has to hint that the superdelegates should insist that Obama take the VP slot instead. Obama has to emphasize that he won’t ever endorse a brokered Hillary win by being her sidekick, and that the superdelegates could see his core voters — the prized African-American voting bloc — walk out of the convention and away from the Democrats up and down the ticket if he doesn’t get the nomination.
Perhaps the World War I analogy isn’t quite as apt as a game of chicken for an explanation. We already know that Hillary will win most of the big industrial states upcoming in the schedule, and that she’ll trail in delegates but not by as much as she does now. As those numbers get closer, the positions will harden — and the question will be which one blinks first, and whether that happens before Denver or on the convention floor.
Update (AP): The Times notes the trend towards Obama among the superdels. Money quote:
“If we get to the end and Senator Obama has won more states, has more delegates and more popular vote,” said Representative Jason Altmire, Democrat of Pennsylvania, who is undecided, “I would need some sort of rationale for why at that point any superdelegate would go the other way, seeing that the people have spoken.”
Obama’s guaranteed to end up with more delegates and almost certainly more states, so the Glacier’s last gasp is the popular vote. How’s that working out? If she loses that too, all she has left to argue is that she’ll do better in the battleground states than Obama will against McCain. Anyone see the superdels flying in the face of Democratic voters to hand her the nomination on that basis?
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Wow. I can’t wait! This is gonna be some good TV these next few months…
Meanwhile, McCain is not getting any coverage. He needs to be out there ripping both of these candidates.
freakagriep on March 16, 2008 at 10:07 AM
If Hilary steals the nomination…..
And STEAL is what they are gonna believe, the donks are going to implode.
Enough of the party have committed themselves in their dislike of Hilary that if Barrack loses his bid they are going critical-mass…
This is great, the following aftermath should work out well for McCain.
Sonosam on March 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Ok, it’s time for those two to go to the sawdust pit . . . the last one out wins.
rplat on March 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM
According to Politico, both Hillary Clinton and the psychologically tortured filthy racist Barack Obama have despaired of any outright victory before the Democratic convention in Denver this August.
JiangxiDad on March 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Maybe they should just go to a stadium and have a duel. That would be cool!
boomer on March 16, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Delegate vs superdelegate issue=party division
popular vote vs delegate vote=party division
far left nuts who support Obama vs DLC establishment superdelegates who could annoint Clinton=party division
black vs women=party division
black vs hispanic=party division
end the war vs continue the war=party division
sizzle vs steak=party division
definitely got their work cut out for them, but what’s really ironic is that if Democrats can’t win this election…then under what conditions CAN they win?
scottm on March 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I have said for quite a while that HRC wins this thing for a number of reasons.
Her presidential win in November will finally cause a number of 20/20 hindsight recriminations. She will win because she is ruthless.
Rush’s self-grandstanding in promoting her since Texas ignores the obvious. The Clinton’s best thrive in ‘trench’ warfare, negative campaigning. Values, truth, and rule of law are simply tools, never principles. She has been allowed to escape Texas and will destroy poor Obama.
The conservatives never learned how to fight the enemy the first time with them, and McCain will not have a chance.
Starlink on March 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Naw, he’s right where he should be,..in Iraq looking after the troops and being presidential. My money is on Glacier in the cage match. Another poster made a good analogy about pretty butterflies- they often get eaten by predatory blue jays who then spit out the wings and cackle in delight. I hope Obama’s supporters don’t burn all of Denver. I’ve always liked it.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Cool idea! Only question is: Who plays Commodus, and who plays Maximus?
iurockhead on March 16, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Hillary will win this now- there is no way the superdelegates can throw in with a possibly racist radical who wins Red states.
That said, Denver is gonna be ugly because does Team Clinton take BO and his baggage as Veep?
God may indeed looks after fools and Republicans.
jjshaka on March 16, 2008 at 10:29 AM
In an otherwise depressing week, this brings a grin to my face. :)
Midas on March 16, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Picture two sixty car locomotives at full steam crashing wonderfully head on like two young boys smashing their Dads’ Lionel electric trains to bits.
We can supply the hysterical laughter.
Speakup on March 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM
The Kos Kids are even eating each other over the Obama/Clinton thing.
Delicious.
Midas on March 16, 2008 at 10:48 AM
I don’t see any way these two make a ticket together which means whoever wins (Go Hillary!) will choose someone who is under-vetted in record and in character. Maybe it will be someone who gives off such a good first impression that people will wonder why that one isn’t running for President followed by discoveries of corruption right before the election. That would be sweet! If only we could all have a streak of good luck like the one McCain is having right now.
Greenhorn on March 16, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Agreed, Daily Kos is like watching a feeding frenzy of cannibals now.
scottm on March 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Heh. Remembering how “Gladiator” ended.
mjk on March 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Not that I like linking other sites but Steyn in National Reviews “The Corner ” just destroys Barak Obama as either a liar or an idiot- or worse.
Awesome stuff
jjshaka on March 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM
I would not dance on anyone’s grave yet.
There will be conservative handwringing everywhere at how quickly they will coalesce after Denver. What about “all the things that were said…” in the primaries?
They are politicians. It is about power. There will be ‘atonement’, influence promised, pork pledged. Everything in the primaries will be ‘nuanced’.
Starlink on March 16, 2008 at 10:52 AM
I believe at the Democrat Convention they will have a Sonny & Cher moment. Of course, all that will do is show the hypocrasy in the party.
Tennessee Dave on March 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM
I’m not sure a Sonny and Cher moment will satisfy the Obama groupies if he loses the cage match. If the stars do align and he agrees to play second fiddle, I predict major sulking by the glassy eyed ones, complete with lower lip protrusion, and refusal to give in to “The Man” with a vote in the general.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 11:16 AM
The conservatives never learned how to fight the enemy the first time with them, and McCain will not have a chance.
Starlink on March 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Couldn’t disagree more… Rush knew what he was doing; the proof is already before our eyes. Rush is way out in front of us Starlink; the man has talent, but more than that the man has eyes and ears in places we could never have access to. Having Hillary and Obama in the race up to and including the convention, works in so many ways. I won’t expand on that, as you already know what I’m referring to. Hillary will be lucky to carry 60% of the black vote by the time she steals this nomination from Obama. Without 90% of the black vote, Hillary can’t beat McCain in the general. In fact, McCain will likely carry several blue states.
Black Americans are getting a reality check right now in many ways. They themselves are caught up in racial hatred that is decaying their very spirit; they’re also seeing more clearly just how white elitist Liberals have been using them for generations; throw them a bone and they will follow. Black Americans are a proud people; they have been slow to see through the mirage put in front of them, but this campaign has cleared much of the fog.
Keemo on March 16, 2008 at 11:17 AM
good grief what a terrible week for the anti Americans
chavez stared down by uribe
spitzer brought down by his arrogance
hilary brought down by geraldine
obama exposed and brought down by his pet pastor
alqaeda goons lit up by a hellfire
what a great week.
elduende on March 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Hillary should stand up and say:
“If I sat and listed to fiery anti-America and Anti-Black sermons from my Pastor for the last 20 years, the American people would disqualify me as a Presidential candidate. The only question is, will Senator Obama be held to the same standard.”
TheBigOldDog on March 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Don’t worry about McCain–he is doing everything right. He’s staying above the fray, refusing to attack over things like WrightGate, letting Hillary do that for him. He’s not letting 2nd-rate talk-show hosts call Obama “Hussein” on his stage. He’s acting very presidential.
McCain is benefiting from his years of experience as a presidential contender.
jgapinoy on March 16, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Like Nancy Sinatra says, “These boots are made for walkin’, and that’s just what they’ll do. One of these days, these boots will walk all over you.”
Are ya ready, boots? Start walking.
petefrt on March 16, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Rasmussen was just on Fox and said this:
Since McCain has been out of the spotlight his favorability ratings have increased 5 point
John McCain: Might Be Luckiest Man Since Ringo Starr
TheBigOldDog on March 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM
The fact that so many of Obama’s wins have come in states that won’t go dem in the general election has to be a factor in some of these superdelegates’ calculations.
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM
This is turning out to be the political equivelent of Thunderdome, with both Hillary and Barack whackig away at each other with weapons the GOP could not be the first to pull out. Identity politics vs. identity politics, internal party corruption charges, etc. and the damage will extend to November; Barack is looking less like a political Messiah and more like a CHicago politician and Hillary is confirming to independent the conservative view of her as a nasty, unethical political power junkie.
McCain’s commercials could consist almost entirely of clips from the loser of this bloodbath.
michaelo on March 16, 2008 at 11:42 AM
If were being honest.
Too bad Americans, you don’t decide who wins, Democrat fat cats decide who wins.
Well, that is, unless you’re living in Florida or Michigan. Then, hell yeh, we want your vote, we need your vote …… in order to manipulate the election later with the super delegate votes. In other words, once we get your votes, we’ll render them meaningless.
The convoluted logic of Democrats.
fogw on March 16, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Time to invest in popcorn futures. Let the Democrats bloody each other in a knife fight. Either one is going to come out of the convention weakened.
And if Obama loses, many of his supporters will go to Nader.
rbj on March 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Would Hillary really accept Obama as veep candidate after the week or two that he’s had?
Against McCain she’s gonna have to pick somebody credible, and Obama isn’t.
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Take a good look at the photo CE used on top of this article. Take a good view at that look written on Hillary’s face. That look is much the same as dragging your fingernails across a chalk board…
This woman reeks of nasty and evil; it’s simply written on her face in every moment she fails to apply the cover.
Keemo on March 16, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Juan Williams from FNS shocked me this morning when he started bashing Obama. Juan is as liberal as they come, but sometimes I really like that guy.
txsurveyor on March 16, 2008 at 11:46 AM
If Hillary loses a fair number of her supporters will go to McCain, I think.
He may have to smack down some dumbass woman from Oklahoma though.
From foxnews.com
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Juan Williams is a huge Clinton supporter.
Keemo on March 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM
I think you are right on that.
Weight of Glory on March 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM
I don’t think Hillary would be allowed to bleed Obama white.
Reaps on March 16, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Too bad celebrity death matches is off the air.
Blake on March 16, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Obama is now saying He disagrees with Wright but understands why he said what he did
William Amos on March 16, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Starlink – you fail to grasp that Hillary would have to win with a badly damaged Dem party coming out of Denver. Look at what happened to poor old Humphrey in ‘68. He was a consensus “good guy” moderate, but the scenes of Chicago buried the Dems. Whatever you may think of the left (from reading too much Kos), the AMERICAN public will turn to McCain if Denver jumps ugly. Match that with the abstainers if Obama doesn’t make peace (VP), and she doesn’t have much of a base. Even with Obama on the ticket, there will be blood hatred between the ticket. You really think Michelle O and Billy Jeff are going to embrace under the confetti? Bwahahaha (not).
rhodeymark on March 16, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Obama has to emphasize that he won’t ever endorse a brokered Hillary win by being her sidekick, and that the superdelegates could see his core voters — the prized African-American voting bloc — walk out of the convention and away from the Democrats up and down the ticket if he doesn’t get the nomination.
Um, where are they going to go? Nader? Is Sharpton going to jump in? The Dems have the black vote locked (in a lockbox!). Come Election Day, all that will matter is Republican vs Democrat (let’s assume Zombie Billary, in this case)- you think all the black voters will just stay at home because
the Clinton Mafia screwedObama self-immolated? Say a quarter of blacks choose not to exercise their franchise – is that enough to sway an election?Conservatives are going to suck it up and vote for “Maverick”. Liberals will do the same vis-a-vis their nominee: Better the devil you know than the Republicans you loathe, like Michelle hates Amerikkka.
SeoulMan on March 16, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Hillary Clinton wouldn’t be where she is if she wasn’t a white woman….
DfDeportation on March 16, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Keep digging pal -your making a nice deep political grave
jjshaka on March 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM
You really think Michelle O and Billy Jeff are going to embrace under the confetti? Bwahahaha (not). – rhodeymark
If it helps them get their spouses into power? You think not? Not quite as cynical as I am.
SeoulMan on March 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM
My pessimism about November is SLOWLY easing away. But it`s by no means gone. I do know I`ll be more excited and entertained by this election than previous ones.
Also a not to Ed, your longer posts are forcing me to realize that my eyes may be starting to go bad. So many words, such tiny print! lol
ThePrez on March 16, 2008 at 12:38 PM
ThePrez on March 16, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Gee, I feel so fortunate to live right next to Denver….
chewydog on March 16, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Rrrriiiiight, Barry. I understand why he said what he said too. And it reflects pretty awful on you.
Dittos. Half-arsed disassociations like that one just make a bad situation worse.
petefrt on March 16, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Hillary has put Obama right where she wants him. She’s staying out of the spotlight and working backdoor deals. She’ll win PA by a big margin, it goes to a brokered convention. She’s going to be the nominee. It’s going to be fun watching her get there too. There will be unexpected consequences from this. I think we’re going to see a big shift in demographics in the Democrat party.
McCain is doing just what he should, as someone else has pointed out, acting presidential. I’m more convinced every day that McCain will be the next president. What would be the reaction if Obama is not the nominee and McCain picks Oh, Michael Steele as his VP? Michael Steele is just a random pick, insert any black conservative you want into the equation and see how it balances.
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I watched a black Democratic strategist on CNN state (without “batting an eeeeeyyyeeee!”) that many blacks agree with what Wright said. It reminded me of Malcolm X’s statement that blacks feel a sense of vengeance every time they hear about an airliner crashing–i.e. dead white people. F*** it! Let’s rip the scab off this M*****F*****! Who’s up for an honest “dialogue” on race? And not that bogus crap that Anderson Cooper and Paula Zahn talk about on CNN.
Sean68 on March 16, 2008 at 12:52 PM
I’m pretty sure Mrs. Obama and Mr. Clinton are easily as cynical as you (and I) are, but by the convention I’m really hoping that Rezkorama and Wrightorama will have made Obama more of a liability for Hillary than a benefit….which means she won’t (can’t?) make him veep.
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Hmm. So, he’s also fighting against the Democratic party? The one awarding him superdelegates via the status quo he’s fighting? Help me out here.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 12:55 PM
If I lived in Colorado, I would give me left arm for a ticket.
THE CHOSEN ONE on March 16, 2008 at 12:56 PM
As you know, blacks have no monopoly on this venom. It’s what sustains the progressive Marxists (KosKids, MoveOn, etc.) of all races. It needs to be crushed.
petefrt on March 16, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Mr. sanctimony, Alan Keyes? Lord have mercy. I couldn’t pull the lever if they did that. Narrow the choices a bit,…please.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Yeah, but is anyone else listening anymore? Jeez, 40 years of whining. I’m tired of listening. And at 11% or so of the population, it’s gonna be hard to make any more electoral difference than they do now.
JiangxiDad on March 16, 2008 at 1:01 PM
The best part is that they’re going to spend all their money and energy before the nomination.
chewydog, do you have a digital camera? You could go hang out with any protesters and take pictures. Like Zombie. You could disquise yourself as a hippie marxist trustafarian.
Bad Penny on March 16, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Hillary needs to win huge in PA, haven’t seen a poll there since Rev Racism did his thing in US living rooms
She HAS to pull ahead in popular vote to give the supers some cover, I don’t think they will give it too her just for the battleground state wins
windansea on March 16, 2008 at 1:03 PM
No. Her only chance is that, sometime between now and the convention, a consensus forms that Obama has been destroyed as a potential nominee.
If over the Summer 1) the polls show Hillary competitive with McCain, but Obama consistently well behind and well outside the margin of error or worse; 2) there’s a general consensus formed that the Dems bought a pig in a poke; and 3) Hillary is coming off big wins, and the popular vote and pledged delegate tallies are very close – then the Superdelegates can vote however they want to. In addition, the Hillaryite argument that her delegates actually represent more citizens, more voters, and more Democrats than Obama’s will begin to meet receptive ears.
The Super Delegates are supposed to correct flaws in the uneven, massively inequitable Democrat primary process. They’re not going to feel that Obama’s success at running up the score in red state caucuses in February obligates the party to commit electoral suicide in November. On the other hand, if everything’s the same in August as it is now, with the only difference being that Wright, Rezko, and other Obama problems are old news, then, yes, it will be very difficult, but still not impossible, for the Super-Delegate to overrule the raw pledged delegate and popular vote tallies.
CK MacLeod on March 16, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Since IMO neither candidate is worthy of the office of Dog Catcher, much less President of the United States, I wish them and the Democratic Party a nasty knifefight, divisive battle for the nomination.
.
That would hopefully leave the hard-Left-captive Democratic Party with deep wounds, division and a significantly lessened ability to fight the November election.
DavePa on March 16, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Yes, obviously. I’m assuming, as Politico does, that they both slog on to the convention as is.
Allahpundit on March 16, 2008 at 1:07 PM
I’ve been saying this ever since I heard that this guy Wright basically called Natalee Holloway a dead, drunk, white whore. As always where there’s smoke…
Obama simply can’t win the gen election. But how will the blacks and the leftists in the party react if he’s not the nominee, especially if he has the popular vote? I’ll bet there are Dems praying Obama get’s struck by lightening.
Sean68 on March 16, 2008 at 1:11 PM
The picture shows Obama saying, “I can give AMNESTY to more Illegal Aliens than you can”. Any bets on that?
DfDeportation on March 16, 2008 at 1:14 PM
The supes will vote for whomever promises to return the favor better.
Greenhorn on March 16, 2008 at 1:18 PM
This whole Rev. Wright fiasco has huge consequences that the MSM doesn’t get as they try to bury it for the home team.
In a nutshell, I would bet 25% of whites and God knows how many Hispanics and Asians now look at BO and secretly think ” I knew it-the” get even anyone who’s not one of us” hate.
And they would have every reason to actively work to defeat him should he be the nominee.
And the Clinton team knows this now.
The Reverend has now may it politically palatable to destroy Obamas chances.
jjshaka on March 16, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Actually Keyes did come to mind, but I agree with you on his chances so I used Steele as an example instead. Conservatives in general like Steele, and he’d pull in a fair amount of the black vote. I’m sure there are quite a few more that would fill the bill.
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 1:23 PM
I don’t think so. These people are politicians…democrat politicians no less…which means they have no spine and zero vision. This then begs the quesion if that party is going to go with the popular vote why bother have super delegates at all?
SouthernGent on March 16, 2008 at 1:25 PM
There’s more time between now and August than the entire primary process has so far taken up. It’s possible that things will remain more or less entirely static, but it’s more likely that opinion will shift in favor of one candidate, partly on the basis of primaries still to come, partly on the basis of events or revelations. In addition, up until recently, the entire Democratic race has been run under twin assumptions that the eventual nominee will be the favorite in November, and that BO would be a stronger candidate than HRC. We’ve yet to see how a different set of assumptions – if indeed they congeal – affect Democratic sentiments over time.
CK MacLeod on March 16, 2008 at 1:30 PM
I’m a Republican but I take NO pleasure in watching the other side tear each other part. America NEEDS two strong political parties.
terryannonline on March 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM
I agree with you that they’re politicians and democrats. They can also gage wind direction. Obama has almost certainly (IMHO) been fatally damaged for the general against McCain. If Obama is nominated and doesn’t win the general his position in the party is going to be somewhere near the bottom. He may be big guns around Chicago but in general he’ll be damaged goods. The Clintons, on the other hand, will be a major power within the party even if they lose the general. In other words The Clintons will be in a position to return favors and avenge slights and insults. These guys know that if they pick Obama and he loses the general The Clintons will destroy them.
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 1:38 PM
I know what you mean, but wouldn’t it be smarter to go after independents rather than black voters, if, as we’re hearing, a large portion of the AA community actually agrees with the Wright theology? A black conservative isn’t going to cut it with them, so what have you gained? Plus, I’m not so sure picking a VP based largely on skin color isn’t the same game the donks are playing.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Lots of good comments on this thread. You guys are smart.
It’s jaw dropping that Obama is defending his pastors racist, hate mongering “sermons.” Obama was raised by a single white woman (his black father abandon him) and yet he and his wife have nothing but hatred for white people and America in general. This cat is out of the bag and is not going back in. He has sat at Rev. Wright’s feet for 23 years so he is utterly without excuse.
The Dhimmicrats seem to be going tribal on this one dividing strictly under racial lines. You hear things like Barrack “controls” the black vote, Hillary “has” the Hispanic vote, etc. Their whole primary season is a disgrace. It’s awash in racial hatred, misogyny, and class envy. And these people represent HALF of the country? Some of you have posted comments where you say that the Dhimmis will win in ‘08. I don’t think they have a prayer. McCain’s no prize for us conservatives but at least he gets it right most of the time.
Mojave Mark on March 16, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Yah, Republican and Libertarian.
Mojave Mark on March 16, 2008 at 1:45 PM
Absolutely. It becomes self survival for them.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 1:47 PM
NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING: Stench warfare.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on March 16, 2008 at 1:52 PM
If the people in those early primary states knew then what they know now, would Obama be where he is?
That is how Hillary could do it, she could say Obama has been damaged by events and so she must step up.
Terrye on March 16, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Since Michigan and Florida will be doing their primary votes over again, and since the news media is now reporting Obama’s affiliation with Trinity Church and Pastor Wright, everyone else, who has already voted, should be entitled to a ‘do over’ as well. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be fair, would it?
rockhauler on March 16, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Michael Steele would appeal to middle of the road and conservative leaning independents. He would not influence the majority of black voters but he would pick up a fair portion of them. Someone like Steele would not be picked solely because of his color but you have to admit it would be a factor. I like Steele, but again I’m sure there are other candidates that would be as viable. One downside I see for McCain picking either female or black would be that he’d be accused of pandering. I think the real outcome of Obama losing the nomination would be most of the black community would just sit out the election and not vote. I agree that if the candidate was picked solely because of skin color it would be the same game the Dems play and I don’t think McCain will do that.
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 2:18 PM
The present structure of the Democratic party is driven by their most radical elements, funded to some extent by Soros money and as we’ve seen from the Hsu spectacle, perhaps some from other countries not looking out for America’s best interests. Until the donks correct their antiAmerican, anticapitalism tendencies, it’s best to let them self destruct and start over.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Since they were OPEN primaries in Florida and Michigan, ALL voters will be getting to vote again, right?
The Democrats crossed over and voted for McCain, so do they now get to choose the Democrat nominee, too?
What a sweet deal.
Janna on March 16, 2008 at 2:21 PM
No, if this had come out early Obama would never have made it out of the gate. That’s exactly what Hillary is doing right now, to the party nobility and behind the scenes. Billy Jeff is cajoling and schmoozing and Hillary is cackling and threatening.
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 2:23 PM
The Dems have been so boring for so long (Gore, Kerry) this slapfight is real fun. I am acually enjoying watching them right now.
In the past they have just made me want to puke.
conservnut on March 16, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Janna on March 16, 2008 at 2:21 PM
I meant ALL VOTERS in Florida and Michigan.
PIMF
Janna on March 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM
I pretty much agree with you on that. I’m a conservative but not a Republican. I think we need at least two strong political parties maybe three. The Democrats have done this to themselves. I take no real pleasure in seeing them disintegrate but since their values are so alien to me I am not displeased. Hopefully something better will arise from the ashes.
I’d like to see something like this
Conservative party
Liberal party
Constitutional party
Oldnuke on March 16, 2008 at 2:29 PM
“[Obama’s various scandals} will have made Obama more of a liability for Hillary than a benefit….which means she won’t (can’t?) make him veep.” – funky chicken
The nutroots will go apeshit – Obama so toxic he makes Hillary look bad? Markos will be hanging himself on a bridge in Fallujah (screw him!). But think of the confluence of identity politics (aided and abetted by an enthralled guilty liberal media) – a chick and a black dude against some really old white guy? How can the “base”, as Thunderdome as it is at the moment, not rally around whatever circus freak eventually gets the nom?
Nevermind the Howard Dean internet stuff (how well did that work out?), this election (and the Dem nominee) will be decided by whichever candidate best circumvents the super-liberal Old Media and actually addresses issues, policies, and character. None of which work in favour of the Democrats.
Or so I hope.
SeoulMan on March 16, 2008 at 2:37 PM
I also believe we’re better off with strong political parties, but a party that adopts total ideological conformism, produces candidates like Obama and Clinton and leaders like Pelosi and Reid, deserves to be torn up and marginalized, if only so that it can be forced to re-build itself.
CK MacLeod on March 16, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Still think Hillary is weaker candidate? Based on the results and voter demographics so far, I’d rather run against Obama at this point.
I don’t think we get any of his AA/youth/wealthy liberal voters if he loses nomination. But McCain will certainly draw a nice slice of women/independent/blue collar voters if it’s not Hillary.
windansea on March 16, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Obama and Hillary are not the entire democratic party. ANd the dems havent held back in attacking Bush or republicans with some very vile smears.
William Amos on March 16, 2008 at 3:35 PM
The mental image I had was of Gomez Addams playing with his electric trains…
Saw this on another board, get your ingredients ready:
INGREDIENTS
* 1/4 cup vegetable oil * 3 tablespoons margarine * 1/2 cup unpopped popcorn * 1/2 teaspoon seasoned salt, or to taste
DIRECTIONS
1. Start by cutting a paper grocery sack in half. This will serve as a makeshift serving bowl and it will absorb excess oil.
2. In a 2 quart pot, combine the oil, margarine and popcorn. Set over high heat, and constantly shake the pan back and forth. After the first kernel of corn pops, place the lid on the pot, and continue shaking. When the popcorn starts to lift the lid up off the pan, remove it from the heat, and hold it over the paper bag until it stops popping.
3. Pour into the paper sack and season with half of the seasoned salt. Shake the paper sack to distribute the salt. Taste before adding more so you don’t make it too salty. You can always add more salt.
Del Dolemonte on March 16, 2008 at 3:38 PM
And that has absolutely disgusted me. Why should we be just as vile as them? Lets be better than that.
terryannonline on March 16, 2008 at 3:48 PM
……….. Nancy Pelosi?
Seven Percent Solution on March 16, 2008 at 4:39 PM
great stuff
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Sit back and enjoy the spectacles.
Entelechy on March 16, 2008 at 5:44 PM
LOL. A quoted comment from a poster at your link. Pure gold.
a capella on March 16, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Times like this, there’s only one way to settle it:
Pacman Showdown, high score wins the nomination AND gets to put their initials in the machine!
SuperCool on March 16, 2008 at 6:37 PM
I live in the Denver metro area – all I can remember when Denver was “awarded” the dimi convention is 1968. God help all of us fine mountain plains residents – the dimis are coming to town with their filthy brand of racism.
I do hope hillary and obama just light each other up – maybe the electorate will finally see the charade the dimis are.
Colonel_prop on March 16, 2008 at 8:46 PM
I find it incredibly funny that the voting democratic public will not be responsible for deciding who the candidate is.
When that happens in other countries, we call them rigged elections.
Hog Wild on March 16, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Del,
You should put exactly one kernel in the pot while heating the oil. When it pops, you add the rest. Alternatively, you stick the square end of a bamboo chopstick into the heating oil and when you see bubbles boiling out from the end of the stick, it’s ready for the kernels. Then cover, and shake over reduced heat. That way, the oil is properly heated prior to popping. If on a low sodium diet (as I am), you can add two tablespoons of sugar into the 1/2cup popcorn and add both remaining kernels and sugar after the first kernel has popped.
That gets you Hawaiian kettle corn.
unclesmrgol on March 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
That homepage image of Obambi jabbing his finger gave me the urge to think of a caption. Dang, I miss those Caption It events at Captain Ed’s old stomping grounds. Also miss the Discus ratings as well. Anyhoo, the abscence of both won’t diminish the prospect of watching the nutroots split apart at the seams of their identity patchwork tent
AH_C on March 17, 2008 at 12:22 AM
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