Gays worse than terrorists, but hey, no offense intended!
posted at 2:40 pm on March 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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An Oklahoma lawmaker has received an avalanche of criticism, reportedly including a few death threats, for calling homosexuality a greater threat to America than terrorism. Republican state legislator Sally Kern has apparently made the comment in more than one venue, and even now defends her statement while the condemnation rolls in from around the country. Kern has only mellowed it to insist that she meant no gay-bashing:
A YouTube audio clip of a state lawmaker’s screed against homosexuality, which she called a bigger threat than terrorism, has outraged gay activists and brought death threats rolling in.
“The homosexual agenda is destroying this nation, OK, it’s just a fact,” Rep. Sally Kern said recently to a gathering of fellow Republicans outside the Capitol.
“Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted, you know, more than a few decades. So it’s the death knell in this country.
“I honestly think it’s the biggest threat that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat,” she said. …
Kern said she has no regrets for her statements and denies she was gay-bashing. Her Christian faith teachers [sic] her to be loving to individuals, but not their lifestyle, she said.
Gays are a bigger threat than Islamist terrorists? Only if one feels less than confident about their own sexuality. In the real world, gays don’t threaten anyone with their choices. Kern, however, has paranoid notions of gay infiltration of city councils in an effort to drive America to ruin. Oh, the humanity!
But don’t let anyone say that Kern engages in gay-bashing! No, no, no, she hates the sin and loves the sinners. She just doesn’t love it when they conspire to undermine city councils and conduct indoctrination of children into their networks. She doesn’t love gays who sneak gay-themed books into childrens’ libraries, which prompted legislation sponsored by Kern, and which failed to pass in the Oklahoma legislature. But don’t say she bashes gays, for Pete’s sake!
Unfortunately, many take this far too seriously. Republicans at some point have to distance themselves from those whose paranoid impulses lead them to these extremes. In practical terms, they are no better than those who blame Halliburton for conspiring to push the nation to war, or those who believe that the CIA secretly masterminded the 9/11 attacks in order to bolster their budgets.
Worst of all, it takes our eyes off of those who really do want to destroy America — like Osama bin Laden, the Iranian Guardian Council, and other real enemies of our nation.
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Blarg,
all you have to say is, “some of my best friends are gay…”
and you can dodge the bigotry charge.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM
The bible also says not to eat pork. But how many non-kosher republicans do we have here?
And to think, the bigot card was already played here, but against me.
Blarg the Destroyer on March 16, 2008 at 4:05 PM
btw, Exactly what country do you live in, ’cause that statement isn’t true for the USA, that’s for sure.
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Who wants “Gay Marriage”?
State by State, Two Person Domestic Partnership/Two Person Civil Unions(Without sexual orientation, as a guide)
Chakra Hammer on March 16, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Chakra Hammer on March 16, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Actually when it comes to homosexuality, I tend to lean toward libertarian. Where I draw the line is when they try to brainwash (”educate”) kids that its normal or parade themselves in a foul way in public, or try to make it a civil rights issue, or change the definition of marriage. But if two people want to do whatever, then I don’t care…just leave me out of it.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:06 PM
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Would you explain to me how I chose to be an alcoholic? Would you explain to me how I would not benefit from sobriety?
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM
If homosexuality is genetic then the solution is gene therapy.
If and when we try to give them gene therapy to cure them, will they finally change their tune and admit it’s a choice?
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Sally Kern is married to the Pastor of the Olivet Baptist Church in Oklahoma City. The church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church, just like the church that McCain decided to attend about fifteen years ago.
Among the stated tenets of the Southern Baptist faith are these: “A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.” and “Every Christian should seek to bring industry, government, and society as a whole under the sway of the principles of righteousness, truth, and brotherly love.”
It seems to me that McCain has some explaining to do about the tenants of his chosen faith.
jim m on March 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Heads up, Ed. They’re claiming you’re gay at Free Republic. :eyeroll:
SnarkVader on March 16, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Same reason some people choose to be drug addicts, drunks, bank robbers, murderers, etc. Because that is their choice (unless it is because of a mental disorder, which brings us full circle).
txsurveyor on March 16, 2008 at 4:08 PM
She is right. But, it is not just homosexuality; the problem is immorality in general. Homosexuality is just the tip of the iceberg. The portion of our society that is comfortable with homosexuality also has little, if any, qualms about pornography, fornication, adultery, abortion etc… You know; the relatively victimless crimes. Victimless, unless you consider the pain felt by abandoned children, wives and husbands of broken homes, unless you consider the increased percentage of crimes that are statistically linked to children growing up in broken homes, unless you consider the pain felt by the promiscuous ones that live past their youth and find themselves very alone and bitter, unless you consider the suffering due to AIDS and other STDs.
roydee43 on March 16, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Fine by me. As long as ANY state legislature or population, ANYWHERE, votes for it.
None has.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:09 PM
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM
How does someone chose to be a schizo, or a manic depressive?
And just because you have a disorder doesn’t mean you don’t have a choice, it just means the choice is harder. Look at alcoholics…they have a choice to drink or not, but are still responsible for their behavior either way.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:10 PM
That dietary restriction was rescinded in the New Testament. Only Jews abstain from eating pork, not Christians.
aengus on March 16, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Thats what I’m saying, let the people vote on it.
I’m a Federalist on these issues.
Chakra Hammer on March 16, 2008 at 4:14 PM
JB, maybe some of the non-bigoted gays need to get vocal. Kinda like the “moderate” Muslims? – ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Maybe get vocal here, eh? I thought Hotair was a conservative site – not a fire-breathing, witch-burning, homo-stoning, whack-job religious site.
But come on in, gay conservatives! You’ll only be compared to murderers intent on destroying western civilization. What’s not to like?
SeoulMan on March 16, 2008 at 4:15 PM
One States Domestic Partnership may differ from other states.
(However, IF enough states adopted some form of domestic partnership, a common theme, for federal taxes would need to be passed etc.)
Chakra Hammer on March 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM
ah ha! I was right. McCain has some splain’n to do!
There ya go, McCain’s relationship with “known bigots” make the whole Obama/Wright issue a wash.
Here come the video clips. I give Olbermann two days before he calls for McCain to commit seppuku.
So predictable.
moxie_neanderthal on March 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM
So eating pork was once a sin, and now it is not. So god can change his mind yes. Do you, or anyone else, suppose that god might change his minds on homosexual behavior as well.
Why or why not?
Blarg the Destroyer on March 16, 2008 at 4:19 PM
How about get vocal anywhere?
I guess in the world of SeoulMan conservative=moral relativist
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:19 PM
So then…txsurveyor, Conservative Voice, Constant Sorrow, et al…
If being gay is a choice, as y’all seem to think, then being straight is a choice too. Or, you all must have chosen not to be gay, right?
Let me just say, that I did NOT choose to be gay. If anything, I tried my damndest to be straight. But it doesn’t work that way…we are what we are when it comes to this subject.
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:20 PM
So there is a gay agenda. It’s part of the liberal agenda. Which undermines American society, morals, etc., etc. (See above.)
And it is being pushed through the courts, which, typically, is the only way any of the liberal agenda ever gets enacted. So it’s also undermining rule of law.
Again, I don’t necessarily agree that the gay agenda IS more of a threat than terrorism; I just don’t think it’s COMPLETELY INSANE to assert that the gay agenda might be more of a threat than terrorism.
My problem is more with Ed’s (what I would characterize as )contemptuous response to the assertion, I guess.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:21 PM
You may be right. The 500,000 “people” who watch Olby may now not be voting for Mccain.
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 4:21 PM
SeoulMan on March 16, 2008 at 4:15 PM
I think we need to strengthen the family. If you want to be gay, I don’t really care…but just don’t promote it or force my kids to be brainwashed that its normal etc.
And again, I think many social conservatives get over zealous over homosexuality when an even greater threat is Divorce. A strong country requires strong families. You know we are in trouble when a hooker becomes a celebrity because of who she did.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Gays themselves are not a threat to this country. I have friends that are gay, I have family members that are gay. But they will be the first ones that will tell you that the “Gay Agenda” will destroy this country. Two differant things Ed.
conservnut on March 16, 2008 at 4:23 PM
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I think you misunderstood me. I believe in trancendant standards. I myself struggle with them (i.e. alcohol, pron, overeating, etc.) The fact that I struggle does not change the standard and it does not change the fact of the destruction they have caused in my life.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Whether it’s a choice or not is completely irrelevant to the discussion of laws and rights. Isn’t it? No rights for gays as gays; very right they’re entitled to for gays as citizens.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:25 PM
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I am not judging you, I have my own sins. And I sometimes do the same sin again and again despite my best efforts to avoid the temptation. I didn’t say it was an easy choice. But it isn’t instinct that causes you to get naked and have sex, its desire, and your choice to give in to that desire.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM
“every right” they’re entitled to for gays as citizens.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:25 PM
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM
conservnut on March 16, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Exactly
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Here is a link to a Letter to Kern from Tucker, who is supposed to be a high school student who lost his mother in the OkC terrorist attack
Reply to Kern
tmitsss on March 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Believe me, I am not bashing you or your lifestyle. You can do whatever you want. I still believe it is a choice. I choose women.
txsurveyor on March 16, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I can’t tell you what God is going to do in the future or why. I just read the Bible and try to understand it all. Prophecies are the most difficult to comprehend.
aengus on March 16, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Having sex is a choice, I’m straight(Divorced) and have been Celibate for over 4 years.
Chakra Hammer on March 16, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM
To add, the individual gay person isn’t a national threat…its the making the behavior legitimate, that it isn’t just ot be tolerated but its to be promoted. That is where it is a threat to our society…We are all sinners, but when we make the sin OK, no big deal, even celebrated, then it erodes our sense of morality, which erodes society.
Like I said, we made Divorce to be OK, and now look at how many broken homes we have. Gays, 5-10% of the population and aside from promoting their lifestyle tend to isolate themselves. Divorce affects the majority, a bigger threat.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:34 PM
I wonder if McVeigh was a Calvinist or an Arminian?
cheap bile unassailably “from the mouths of babes”
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Agreed.
This country is based on Judeo-Christian principles, with toleration of all lifestyles. Just don’t mess with laws of Marriage, cohabitation, etc and try to turn them into a license to teach homosexuality in the schools and silence speech and teaching of those that disagree with the homosexual agenda. Which, of course, is happening. Homosexual Activists are intolerant.
Ed, show me a sophisticated society that HAS tolerated rampant homosexuality and survived? hmmmmmm??
daytrader on March 16, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Jetboy,
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kindgom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God”.
“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God”.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 4:37 PM
I think that is a really over simplification and begs the question, what exactly constitutes bankruptcy of the soul?
Many empires have come and gone for a wide variety of reasons. Failure to modernize armies, technology, bankruptcy, warfare, access to resources, economies, civil war etc… )
The whole notion of liberal democratic thought is the attempt to find the sweet spot between individual rights and liberties and the greater good associated with normative behavior guided by govt and social institutions. The financial well being and defense issues facing this country are much more serious than the loose social mores argument you’re suggesting.
It strikes me as wrong headed and tortuous (to say the least) to in any way equate the threat level posed by terrorism (asymetrical /4th generation warfare) and homosexuality.
I suppose if you want to tick of a laundry list of things which all contribute to a weakened state, fine. But there are more pressing issues.
moxie_neanderthal on March 16, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Speaking of tolerance, I’m all for it.
Not so much acceptance until it’s, you know, accepted by the people either in a popular vote or through the legislature.
Ditto for promotion.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM
“Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.” (Romans 13:8)
Don’t start throwing scripture at me…you won’t win.
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:41 PM
As a straight former college history major, I’d direct your attention to Rome and Greece (the twin pillars of western civilization). All empires eventually fail, but I think we’d all agree they survived a relatively long time and made a tremendous contribution to the world.
moxie_neanderthal on March 16, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Scripture, again, I’d say was irrelevant to the question of rights and laws; the power-sharing scheme of the government (AKA the various “Constitution”) should be the document one cites.
misterpeasea on March 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM
I fail to see the relevance of your scripture quote. Do you equate acceptance of homosexuality with a biblical definition of love?
Maybe my family should have shown me more love by abandoning me into my drunkenness.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Don’t start throwing scripture at me…you won’t win.
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:41 PM
So you know the scripture better than me but you choose to believe that God does not mean what he says:
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 4:46 PM
So I’m clear on this – a typical morning for you is: get up, shower, brush your teeth, choose which gender to be attracted to, get dressed, go to work?
Levy on March 16, 2008 at 4:48 PM
moxie_neanderthal on March 16, 2008 at 4:38 PM
I think our current country is becoming bankrupt. We just made a hooker a celebrity. We have Congress spending pork in the billions. We have divorce rate over 50%. We have the Gay Agenda. We have class envy, we have the global warming crowd thinking drilling for oil is morally wrong. It feeds on itself. The more we make sin OK, even celebrate sin, the more we get immoral people to be our leaders…and it ends to our destruction.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Again, don’t equate alcoholism with being gay. Not the same. Being gay isn’t “wrong”, or “destructive”, nor will it kill your liver.
And yes… I do equate love with love. Being gay isn’t just about sex. There’s love involved too.
And again, if being gay is a choice, then not being gay must be a choice too. Straight people chose not to be gay. See what I’m saying?
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 4:50 PM
That’s funny. Actually made me laugh out loud. Let’s say it is a lifetime choice. Doesn’t change daily, ya know?
txsurveyor on March 16, 2008 at 4:50 PM
How could we turn gay if it’s congenital?
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:51 PM
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 4:46 PM
You won’t win with scriptures unless he believes it to be the word of God, and even then he has to believe you are a man of God interpreting the scriptures as God intended.
Conservative Voice on March 16, 2008 at 4:52 PM
She is absolutely correct. Great nations are destroyed from within before they are destroyed from without.
The sexualization of our children at younger and younger ages, public school agendas that focus on social engineering more than basic school subjects, the growth and support of wacko groups like Code Pink, the denigration of our military, the steady loss of our person freedoms (McCain-Feingold, Patriot Act, constant attacks on the Second Amendment, etc.), the growth of the government nanny state (in complete conflict with the Ninth and Tenth Amendments), out of control political correctness – the list goes on and on.
By themselves, many of these things don’t add up to much, but incrementalism is a relentless thing. We just don’t see the danger until dangerous and immoral ideologies have gained a substantive foothold and it is too late to check them.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty…Wendell Phillips
tballard on March 16, 2008 at 4:53 PM
I’ve searched both pages of comments for “birth,” “fertility,” “demographic,” and “demography,” without finding any reference to the issue of low fertility among Americans. Homosexuality’s effect on fertility seems to be the most reasonable argument one can make against its normalization, but no one appears to have even raised the issue in passing–until now, of course. Is there some reason no one is raising the issue?
I’ll raise it: If you’re having sex with a woman on “the pill,” you might as well be having sex with a man. If you’re on “the pill,” you might as well be in bed with a woman.
Kralizec on March 16, 2008 at 4:54 PM
No, heterosexual desire is not a choice. BUT heterosexual BEHAVIOR is a choice. That is the similarity with alcoholism. Saying homosexuality is OK doesn’t make it so. The Bible has a natural order to it that often includes the “principle of universality”. “If everyone did this what would happen?” If everyone was homosexual, there would be no children for gays to adopt. God made us man and woman for particular purposes and I don’t care to argue with Him.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Oh, how I love it so when people quote scripture. Tell me SaintOlaf, are you one of those pick and chose Christians, or do you take the bible at its whole?
I hope, if you have children, you are a pick and choser, not a literalist.
Deuteronomy 21: 18-21
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
The bible says lots of things that I’m sure none of you who claim to be Christians follow. How many Christians here have stoned their sons to death for not obeying them?
If you want to quote scripture saying homosexuality is wrong, but then refuse to stone your children to death when they disobey you, you are either ignorant of the religion you claim to be a part of, or you are a hypocrite.
Blarg the Destroyer on March 16, 2008 at 4:57 PM
When I was in high school in the 80’s we “thought” there “might” be one guy who was “probably” gay. He wasn’t bashed or ridiculed as far as I know but he was very close with social elite females and very active in the “girly” activities. As it turned out he’s now married with several children, so a lot “we” knew…
Now fast forward to 2008…Being the nosey parent that I am I eavesdropped on a conversation my Middle School aged daughter was having in her room with her friend. In a nutshell, they were discussing the “several” boys and girls who they “KNOW” are gay…These are 7th and 8th GRADERS!
Political Correctness has completely washed away any stigma formerly attached to being gay. For adults this is obviously a good thing. No one should be stigmatized for their sexual preferences.
However, the result of this new “enlightened” attitude towards the gay lifestyle has allowed our children to experiment with sexuality in ways that would never have been acceptable a few years ago. Apparently being just straight isn’t as “cool” as it used to be!
Parents Beware! Be Nosey!
Jeff_Boeing on March 16, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Bingo! We give tolerance to the different people around us and expect reciprocal consideration in return. But there is a hostile sub-culture that wants to rub everyone’s nose in it. Not OK. N-O-T OK! Movies are infested with this garbage as are the public schools. Not OK! TV programs that show two guys in bed are off my list.
People should not have to vote to keep the definition of a founding institution (marriage) that a few want to change out of selfishness and sheer hostility to the mainstream. I have no hostility toward individuals who may sound or act a little different (or not), but who live private lives with dignity.
Tolerance is a two way street and the agendized crap has got to stop. Tolerance is like good manners; demands for approval are not. A courageous lady spoke up because she is fed up with the creeping creepiness called “progressivism.” That makes her paranoid I guess. Ridicule and death threats are just figments of her imagination. She doesn’t know how to feel the love coming from a hostile sub-culture and its defenders.
Are some truths too truthy, even for Hot Air?
Feedie on March 16, 2008 at 5:01 PM
But from the beginning of the creation, male and female he made them. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the twain shall become one flesh: so that they are no more twain, but one flesh. Mark 10:7-9
From the mouth of Jesus himself. Sounds pretty straight forward to me — marriage is for man and woman.
JetBoy, isn’t it the case that one’s sexuality is a matter of taste and preference, just as we have tastes and preferences in food or music? Why is it, then, that no one would seriously argue that they are born desiring steak or rice, that they are born to love Mozart or The Beatles? Yet, we are told that one’s sexuality is somehow different, somehow inherent. I don’t doubt that you found it difficult to alter deeply ingrained tastes, just as most everyone who tries to diet eventually goes back to their former eating habits and puts the weight back on, but I can’t accept that acts of behavior are unavoidable.
KGB on March 16, 2008 at 5:01 PM
There you go, with the obligatory Leviticus cherry-pick. I suppose you simply ignore that Leviticus also forbids men shaving, and eating shellfish, and wearing cotton-blends.
“For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.” (Leviticus 20:9)
Believe that?
“Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:12)
And that?
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 5:01 PM
So does this mean I cannot eat calamari anymore??
AprilOrit on March 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Quoting scripture is hilarious! It’s like spitting out Koran verses or Papal bulls or anything that some guy said/wrote some eons ago. Who cares? Why should it dictate what we do? if you can’t make your case based on logic and natural law, then your case has no merit.
This insistence that “God’s law” or some such has it in for homosexuals is just bigotry, plain and simple. The problem for us homosexuals (or those of us who care about equal rights) is that homosexuals will always be a small minority and will be at the mercy of the majority. Thus we make for terrific scapegoats no matter what the ill. STDs? Gays. Destroying the family? Gays. The disintegration of (straight) marriage? Gays. It’s the same sort of shite which has been going down since the dawn of man. Find something you don’t like, ascribe it to some minority group, and persecute that minority in order to fix that ill.
Now, please quote bible verses at me. I read the whole thing in my crazy Southern Baptist private school. Even the begats. I reject all of it except for some of Jesus’ teachings. The Old Testy is somewhat useful as an insight into how barbaric and violent the Israelites were. The rest is just myth and power-seeking by prophets and such. Don’t even get me started on Paul and his grasping for control of the early church.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on March 16, 2008 at 5:04 PM
JetBoy,
Speaking of Cherry-Picking…..
Why don’t you ask a Jew about those passages. Christians aren’t bound by those decrees because of the atonement of Christ. If you were such a scholar, you might know that. This has ceased to be a thoughtful discussion(if it ever was). It’s just a slap-fight.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I don’t know the context of her comments, but in a lot of ways I can’t disagree with her. I think terrorists are committing a worse sin, and they should all die, but almost all empires in history rotted from within. Very few were actually conquered militarily, without suffering some kind of moral/social collapse back home.
Want proof? Check the history of the Roman empire. How in the world could a bunch of vandals and barbarians overcome the most modern empire in the known world? Answer: A rising welfare state and moral collapse back home. Nobody cared anymore about God and/or civil service. Instead, they lived a selfish, hedonistic lifestyle. Instead of living for God and country, they lived for themselves. No contribution to society = fall of society.
HYTEAndy on March 16, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Really?
freevillage on March 16, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Blarg the Destroyer on March 16, 2008 at 4:57 PM
No I’m not a “pick and choose Christian” like you.
If you have ever read deuteronomy you would know that this is in the context and timing of Israel cleansing the land of Israel….of the Nephilim’s and impure Israelites.
It is not a general and specific command to stone sinners.
In fact Jesus says “He who is without sin let him cast the first stone” when referring to the adulteress the mob was intending on stoning.
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 5:10 PM
You cannot use scripture to convince those who have rejected it. However, those of us who have chosen to be Christian and choose to live by the New Testament are not going to change our views of what is right or wrong by what society accepts or doesn’t accept. The schools do not have the right to choose to force an agenda that parents object to just because the school feels it is the right thing to do for society. We reject that kind of indoctrination and have the right to reject it.
Rose on March 16, 2008 at 5:12 PM
But Christians ARE bound by the passage in Leviticus that mentions a man lying with another man…just that one, right?
John 3:16 tells us that “For God so loved the world, He gave us His only begotten Son…that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life”
Whoever shall believe in Him (Jesus)…And no, I’m no biblical scholar, but I’m pretty sure Jesus never said anything about gays.
JetBoy on March 16, 2008 at 5:12 PM
There are sufficient prohibitions on homosexual behavior in the New Testament. I don’t pretend to know whether you are going to heaven or not based on a behavior you admit to. We as Xtians are admonished against that kind of judgment in a popular verse. However, we are not told to turn a blind eye and say that what God says is sin is not sin.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Factually incorrect. Rome, Greece, Egypt, China… all lasted a lot longer than “a few decades” All allowed homosexuals during much of their existence. Last time I looked, Egypt and China are still around.
Bumbling politicians like this don’t belong in office. There are better ways to counter extreme gay activism than handing them propanda plums on platters.
I also take umbrage about the statement on Terror – there are soldiers on the front now, does she think we should bring them home to fight gays instead of Al Qaeda and Taliban? I hear there are empty pews at Westboro Baptist she can take a seat in.
Tark on March 16, 2008 at 5:16 PM
The Roman Empire only became officially Christian toward the end of its run. They did enjoy several hundred years of rather loose behavior and military dominance before then.
dedalus on March 16, 2008 at 5:19 PM
If she only said…. Teh Gheys…
Seven Percent Solution on March 16, 2008 at 5:21 PM
maybe you missed my earlier post quoting 1 corinthians 6:9-11?
Jesus did not come to destroy the Law of moses but to fulfill it.
Jesus endorsed the Law of Moses.
It was prophecied that the Messiah would “magnify the Law”.
This is exactly what Jesus did. Lust=adultery. Unjust hatred=murder
1 corinthians 6:9-11 makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin against God(like other types of sins) and that the no longer practicing “homosexual” can be saved through repentance and Grace through faith in Jesus Christ!
SaintOlaf on March 16, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Tark,
Go take a look at Egypt and China. Tell me how many gay bars you see.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:22 PM
As a practicing fag, I must say I still feel more comfortable over here than on The Left.
SouthernGent on March 16, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Constant Sorrow: read some history. During the major portion of their existence they allowed homosexuality, they are still here. For that matter so is the state of Greece, and Rome’s been Re-named Italy.
Is your point that gays justify tyranny or what? Last time I looked, current governments in Egypt and China aren’t things we should model.
Try again.
Tark on March 16, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Tark,
Is your point that allowing homosexual marriage necessary for a just and civilized society? OK, let’s talk about Greece and Italy. Do they have gay marriage? Do their schools mandate that children embrace the gay lifestyle as equal? They are so much more civilized than we are.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Can some social conservatives tell me why gay marriage should be banned by federal or state law? Similarly, can some social conservatives tell me why gay marriage should be publically instituted? To write it in the laws, after all, is to imply that it is a right that can be taken away. Rather, let some private institutions spring up that are willing to marry homosexuals, and then petition the government to let those marriages be recognized by law. Similarly, polygamists can set up their private institutions that unofficially marry one man to many women (or vice versa) and petition the government to have that marriage recognized by law. Marriage, to me, is between any number of men and any number of women, assuming they all love each other and can find a private institution willing to marry them and get that marriage legally recognized. But such marriages should not be mandated by law, especially not when the only institution currently marrying people is the church, which is only a vehicle for monogamous, heterosexual marriages.
Churches should not be forced to perform other kinds of marriages, and homosexuals should not be prevented from getting married by other institutions if those institutions can get their brand of marriage recognized by law. That’s my basic stance on the whole subject.
As for gays or the gay agenda destroying America, gimme a break. If socons want to talk about how the sexualization of America is destroying it, go ahead, but don’t lay it all at the feet of the gay community. How is it “society rotting from within” when two people love each other? Answer me that.
Math_Mage on March 16, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Tark, two more things….
go read some history and
try again
oh, and grow up
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:31 PM
I am not Christian, but wasn’t John the Baptist gay? He was Jesus’ cousin, correct?
AprilOrit on March 16, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Not long ago, if you had been attracted to a woman of another race there might have been additional government restrictions. When we had laws against whites and blacks or whites and Chinese marrying was it wrong for people of different races who were in love to feel that the government was treating them unfairly?
Your point seems to infer that as long as we were all equally restricted to marry someone from our own race then fairness exists.
dedalus on March 16, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Hey! Me too. Almost. I’m straight (Married) and have been celibate for over 4 years! But not by choice, mind you.
Rod on March 16, 2008 at 5:33 PM
I didn’t say a thing about gay marriage. Neither did the article. So you are changing the subject because you can’t counter what was said.
Nice try. The statement she made was totally, factually, and incredibly incorrect.
Tark on March 16, 2008 at 5:34 PM
No, April
He wasn’t. Maybe in a movie somewhere. It’s not in the book anywhere.
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:34 PM
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Just for the record, Timothy McVeigh was an agnostic: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200205/ai_n9113667
Tommygun on March 16, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Tommygun,
That was my point. Someone was trying to make moral equivalence with Christians being as bad if not worse than X (insert undesirable here)
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Here’s proof that being gay isn’t in your DNA. I’m not crazy about all the I-35 hype, but if you skip ahead to 3:55 there’s a testimonial from a man who was gay and now is not. This is just one example, and there are, no doubt, thousands more. I agree with txsurveyor. The Bible is clear on the fact that homosexuality is an abomination. Lev 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” God himself said it, and I’ll side with Him. He wouldn’t have said such a thing if it were not a choice (since that would be like saying mentally handicapped people should not be mentally handicapped) just as any other sin is a choice. Also see Rom 1:18-32.
Livefreeordie on March 16, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Pathetic. Maybe 0.1% of gays are driving the radical homosexual movement. Homosexuals are, what, 3% of the population? So we are now to be terrified by the wacky views held by a tiny minority of extremely strange, and therefore off-putting, people? You know, my kids wouldn’t be terribly impressed by the Folsom Street Fair, or other bizarre S & M inspired “gay pride” parades.
Her statement is as stupid as it is damaging to the GOP.
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Ed. Some find homosexuality sick. Diane Sawyer called it the “ick” factor. It’s repulsive and repugnant to them. To me that’s the key issue. Children may find adults kissing to be “ick”. They grow out of that. We mature but still have values and sensibilities. If you find nothing objectionable, then you have no moral compass. Isn’t it normal to be repulsed by homosexuality? You write:
I have to LOL at the politically correct tinge to your comment. Conservatives go by that “still small voice within”. Are you a conservative? How far will you go to deny your individual sensitivities as to what’s right, what’s wrong, and what’s “ick”?
Paul-Cincy on March 16, 2008 at 5:39 PM
On the one hand I feel bad for this woman because she’s simply afraid and ignorant and absurdly misguided. On the other we need to speak up and call this for what it is, stupidity and bigotry. Enough lady. Get a freakin clue already and get out of the party until you do.
Dash on March 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Very pretty. What does this have to do with either Captain Ed’s post or the place of gays in society or how public policy should deal with gay issues?
Are you arguing that divorce (which dissolves the union between partners) is equivalent to gay marriage (which creates a union between partners) in its effect on society? Also, why would the creation of a private institution marrying gay couples and the subsequent recognization of that organization by the government be promotion, rather than merely tolerance?
Math_Mage on March 16, 2008 at 5:41 PM
ConstantSorrow on March 16, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Wasn’t sure exactly where you were coming from. In either case, the article holds specific evidence.
Tommygun on March 16, 2008 at 5:45 PM
What exactly is the gay agenda? I see it thrown around a lot in here as something to be feared, but I’ve yet to have seen it defined?
Tom_Shipley on March 16, 2008 at 5:46 PM
So you’re a literalist? The Bible is the word of God, the Earth was created in 6 days, God is always right and all that? God says homosexuality is a sin, so it must be a choice?
Unfortunately, I’m not in a position where I can listen to that video you linked to, but from your description it proves nothing other than that hormones can change their habits. Or did the guy say “Well, I was homosexual, but one day I decided I wouldn’t be, and then I wasn’t attracted to men anymore”?
Math_Mage on March 16, 2008 at 5:46 PM
there’s a testimonial from a man who was gay and now is not. This is just one example, and there are, no doubt, thousands more.
OH MY GOD. Good work. Definitive proof! that being gay is a choice. This is ground breaking. Seriously, email this to Fox News.
Tom_Shipley on March 16, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Good thing there is a 24/7 hour news cylce and the blogosphere, isn’t it?
Hey, the Sun just came out! I’m going for a walk and think of new ways to sue Al Gore…..
Seven Percent Solution on March 16, 2008 at 5:50 PM
One little nitpick…BDSM doesn’t have anything to do with being gay, except perhaps that since having intercourse isn’t an option, a higher percentage of gays end up expressing themselves that way. Otherwise, I’m 100% agreed.
Math_Mage on March 16, 2008 at 5:51 PM
As far as I can tell, Tom, it’s just the sexualization package with gay marriage as an addendum, according to the commenters here. I agree that there needs to be a more specific definition if we’re going to “debate” about whether it’s a threat to the US (”debate” rather than debate because it’s obvious which side will win).
Math_Mage on March 16, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Know what is worse than terrorism? Childhood obesity.
I swear, if I see another fat kid…
frankj on March 16, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Second hand smoke!
funky chicken on March 16, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Well I don’t know, it seems Dr. Craig Bridges, resident scholar of the Christian Coalition says he was a passive homosexual.
AprilOrit on March 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM
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