Obama requested million-dollar earmark for … his wife’s hospital? Update: And for fundraiser’s company?
posted at 9:33 pm on March 13, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Dan Riehl notes, via Amanda Carpenter, that in the list of earmarks he requested, $1 Million was requested for the construction of a new hospital pavilion at the University Of Chicago. The request was put in in 2006.
You know who works for the University of Chicago Hospital?
Michelle Obama. She’s vice president of community affairs.
Follow the link to Geraghty for the punchline; it’s essential, but I don’t want to rip off his whole post. There has to be more to this story, doesn’t there? If it’s as bad as it looks, Obama would be nuts to have let McCain goad him into disclosing it, and he’s given no signs thus far of being nutty. (Well, almost none.) Granted, it gives him some momentary leverage over Hillary, but at what price?
Reserve judgment until tomorrow. I can’t believe he’d be this corrupt. Exit question one: Per the Byron York quote in Geraghty’s item, isn’t Michelle Obama’s raise sort of … a kickback? Or does that depend on the earmark having actually been approved? Exit question two: When do we get to see those state senate earmarks? Any goodies for the missus in the mix there?
Update: More hope and change, although not as damning as the earmark for the hospital given that General Dynamics is the largest military contractor in the world. Favoritism or just another senator throwing a little business GD’s way?
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Wow. The only person having a worse day that Obama is Spitzer!
TheBigOldDog on March 13, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Uh oh. $800k for the hospital, $200k for the wife, and no sunlight until now. Conflict yes?
Vizzini on March 13, 2008 at 9:37 PM
WTF?
Well obviously that raise was based on her abilities and value to the hospital. To say otherwise would be RACIST.
Vigilante on March 13, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Hundreds of best researchers and doctors in the world?
This is just getting sick. U of Chicago is one of elite schools in the US. They will attract tons of money including from the government regardless of Michelle’s employment.
It’s like saying. Harvard just got a grant. Guess whose uncle is a janitor there.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Wonder what other goodies we’ll find in Obama’s past…
mcrabben7 on March 13, 2008 at 9:38 PM
just another dirty politician.
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Right. A wife, whose income is shared by Obama himself, is the same as an uncle, and a janitor is the same as an executive position. If this were a Republican you’d be wetting yourself.
Allahpundit on March 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM
obama can do no wrong .
at least no wrong he will be called on without the person calling him on it getting labeled racist.
he knows it, i know it, hell the whole world knows it, so why shouldn’t he do/ask for whatever he wants.
trailortrash on March 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM
The University of Chicago will run interference for him on this one. They just have to manufacture a reason for the raise and fill in the job description retroactively to make the timing work. Child’s play.
a capella on March 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM
I see your point. It’s like an uncle who went from a rich $120k/year salary to a super rich $310k/year salary. Oh yeah, and the nephew lives with the uncle and just bought a multi-million dollar house with him with the help of a corrupt party boss.
Right. Just like a janitor.
Vizzini on March 13, 2008 at 9:43 PM
You have seen it, I have seen it. The question is, will the Obama diciples blinded by his “Changeness” see it?
Too bad Hillary can’t call him on it, her state got almost 4 times as much in earmarks. But McCain… he can.
Hog Wild on March 13, 2008 at 9:43 PM
You know who also might be involved ?
William Amos on March 13, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Yah, but it’s an earmark. That’s something Obama gave from taxpayer dollars without any government body reviewing any grant request or congressional committee overseeing the appropiation.
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 9:45 PM
I’m here so I obviously value you as a main contributor, so I will try once again specifically for you. In my opinion,
Romney > McCain > Hillary > Obama.
Hopefully, this will put “if you were a Republican” to rest. Nah, it won’t. But don’t ell me I didn’t try.
Now, if you explain to me how she will personally benefit from this particular earmark, I will apologize and support you on this. However, is it stands right now, there are TWO world class schools in Illinois: UIUC and UChicago.
It’s not a freak accident that a Harvard graduate residing in IL would work at one of them. It’s quite expected of a Senator from IL to bring grant money to elite schools in his state.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 9:47 PM
again. Reagan vs. Mondale part II
THE CHOSEN ONE on March 13, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Let me ask you just this. Have you ever worked at a University?
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 9:48 PM
There is no need to call the guy by his middle name or claim that he’s a secret Muslim.
All that’s needed to defeat him are his policies, actions, and associations.
Geez, he really is having a bad week, isn’t he? Not Spitzer bad, but bad enough.
Dorvillian on March 13, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Fun, but completely useless link to one of Bam’s bits of Illinois legislation.
note: it’s not an earmark since the beneficiaries aren’t into pork.
note II: it didn’t pass.
yo on March 13, 2008 at 9:50 PM
I’m sure the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to be Millionaires. Therefore they’d have no problem with politicians using earmarks to do just that.
jp on March 13, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Loaves and fishes, you rock Allah!!
dmann on March 13, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Guess you missed the $200,000 raise part.
Vigilante on March 13, 2008 at 9:51 PM
I’m betting he does that anyway.
TexasDan on March 13, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Yes. And I’ve also worked with earmarks. You have to be connected to get them. You have to know someone who knows someone who knows a congressman or senator. Earmarks are dirty. I have been directly involves with them, and know how dirty they are.
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 9:53 PM
That’s an angle I hadn’t seen up to this point.
Does it much matter? If I worked as an executive at Banamex and my spouse got Citibank a earmark, does that not at least seem like a conflict? And how about if I got a 200% boost in pay?
Vizzini on March 13, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Whoa!
Johan Klaus on March 13, 2008 at 9:55 PM
And your expectation that elected representatives would conduct themselves in such a way to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest is, apparently, zero. Given the very, very apparent appearance of such a conflict, and the appearance of an apparent quid pro quo to boot.
TexasDan on March 13, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Per the commenters/morons over at Ace: One of Obama’s top contributors to his Senate campaign? The University of Chicago.
Audacity. And big brassies.
thirtypundit on March 13, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Allahpundit hate black children that have to go to the hospital!
You really can’t? I can.
SouthernGent on March 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
That you give any politician grace at all unbelievable.
samuelrylander on March 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
I have never supported earmarks. If your beef is earmarks then I’m with you. I’m opposed to characterizing U of Chicago as a “school where Michelle Obama works”.
Let me try it this way. If Stanford gets a grant from the Federal Government, it’s ludicrous to suggest that the reason is Condie Rice.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Aren’t we missing a bunch of papers from his Illinois Senate days? He has been confronted on this and IIRC, he said that they didn’t have the storage for them or something.
I do know something funky happened with his born-alive abortion voting records.
ninjapirate on March 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
UC endowment is only $6,000,000,000….but it is a liberal school so the fed should help them build rock gardens.
David in ATL on March 13, 2008 at 9:59 PM
There is NO way he is going to come out of this clean. NOBODY can come from where he does and not have somthing to hide. I have been saying this for MONTHS, I can only hope it is no too late for people to see him for what he is.
TroubledMonkey on March 13, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Uhm, if it means no money for U of Chicago then yes, it is zero. I don’t think any conflict is apparent in this case.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Rezko.
Only if you’re an ignoramus is that the same. His wife works there, gets a significant raise, and all of a sudden he’s getting the university a $1 million earmark.
Only a bit before his wife gets a significant salary increase from the university?
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:02 PM
My point is that you need a direct pipeline to the Senator to get the earmark. Michele Obama either was or was not that connection. I suspect she was somehow involved, even if she didn’t spearhead the request.
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 10:02 PM
before=after
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:02 PM
The argument is not that she will benefit, it is that they already did. The bumped her salary by more than 100% in a year, and just after Obama earmarks 1mil for the hospital…come on man. If true, it is pretty corrupt.
nailinmyeye on March 13, 2008 at 10:03 PM
It wouldn’t be if Condi requested the money for the school, her husband works there, and he just got a significant raise.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Condie Rice has nothing to gain from the earmark. The Obama family obviously did.
Vizzini on March 13, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Obama has got some stones to call out Hillary on earmarks…
McCain is the only one squeaky clean on this issue, but I expect it will not be reported. only how much pork the two dems took in comparison. Obama took only 1/3 of what Hill took but he is also a less powerful senator from a smaller state.
No one will mention McCain has been “kosher” since the 80’s.
Squid Shark on March 13, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Yeah…but we aren’t talking about a grant from the federal government, right? We’re talking about a specific earmark from a specific person. Now, if Condie herself the one granting the federal dollars…then your analogy might hold.
nailinmyeye on March 13, 2008 at 10:05 PM
The only thing I have to say about this (as a U of C alum) is that the University of Chicago hospital is HUGE, as is the entire university. This isn’t some obscure institution in the middle of nowhere, the U of C is an employer of over twelve thousand people in Obama’s district. Not saying that there is no quid pro quo going on here (I don’t know) but $1m doesn’t seem like that significant for an institution of this size.
And for the record, there are a large number of excellent schools in Chicago, including Northwestern, University of Illinois at Chicago, DePaul University, Loyola University of Chicago, Illinois Institute of Technology, Roosevelt University, Columbia College and among others. Even Notre Dame has a business school here.
furytrader on March 13, 2008 at 10:06 PM
So much bad stuff surfacing on BHO this week. Is the HRC campaign putting it out, or where is it coming from?
OMG, it’s looking like HRC’s going to overtake BHO again.
petefrt on March 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Obama Requested $1 Million For Construction Of A New Hospital Pavilion At The University Of Chicago. In 2006, Obama requested that the University of Chicago receive $1 million to support its Construction of New Hospital Pavilion. For more than 75 years, the University of Chicago Hospitals (UCH) has provided state of the art medical care on the South Side of Chicago. UCH is one of the largest Medicaid providers in Illinois, and it provided more than $90 million in uncompensated care for Medicare and Medicaid patients this past year. To continue providing the best care for patients from all walks of life, UCH is proceeding with the construction of a new 600,000 square foot facility that will ensure their ability to provide the best care for patients well into the future. Funding will go towards assisting the construction and equipping a new hospital pavilion that will increase the Hospitals’ clinical capacity by over one-third. [Obama Request Letter to the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Energy and Water, 4/7/06]
bnelson44 on March 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM
And for the record, there are a large number of excellent schools in Chicago
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM
I see.
And I suspect any Senator from the state I live is constantly bringing money to my school. Seeing as how it’s top 1 engineering school in the world. But feel free to accuse the administration of corruption.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM
The downside of his up-until-now Messiahhood, is that any bad news can seem catastrophic as it’s not what a Messiah would do.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Who would thunk it?
Johan Klaus on March 13, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Here, this will make it easier to swallow:
Just consider her $200,000 raise to be justly deserved reparations for Michelle Obama…. After all, she had to go through Princeton and Harvard Law School as the only ‘outsider who didn’t have a trust fund’ in history. She actually had to WORK her way through two elite universities.
She DESERVES that taxpayer money; All those evil white men who got rich while riding on her back need to be punished for putting her into slavery.
________________________________
Hey, I’ve been thinking: If M.O. was even a halfway competent lawyer, wouldn’t she be able to make more money by actually practing law than being a patronage “community affairs” hack at a taxpayer supported institution?
I mean really; Until Barack got her the taxpayer funded raise, she couldn’t earn what an ‘unconnected’ first year graduate Lawyer can easily bring in with just local ambulance chasing and writing a few small business contracts .
LegendHasIt on March 13, 2008 at 10:12 PM
No. None of that caliber.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Phew! I knew I know thee. But missing the quote marks at the start of your post, I was in momentary disbelief of mine eyes. :)
petefrt on March 13, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Michelle Obama has been an employee of the Univesity of Chicago since 1996. In 2005, “she was appointed vice president of community and external affairs at the University of Chicago Medical Center. She also managed the business diversity program.” – From Barackobama.com
bnelson44 on March 13, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Sorry, didn’t mean to cause any heart palpitations :)
bnelson44 on March 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM
You make it seem, intended or not, that he just happens to be a state Senator who has this beautiful school he believes in.
His wife is a higher-up and just got a major raise. All of a sudden he decides it needs a $1 million earmark for its latest project.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM
The good news for Obama is he can now list 6 accomplishments on his website instead of just 5.
Here, I’ll do if for them so they can just cut and paste.
<li>Got Michelle a stinking phat raise.</li>
pedestrian on March 13, 2008 at 10:18 PM
All polititians are honest. That is why they made it where they do not have to vote themselve raises.
Johan Klaus on March 13, 2008 at 10:19 PM
You would think he wouldn’t want the appearance of favoritism.
It may have been because of her, it may not have been.
The problem is the APPEARANCE of impropriety.
Oh no, am I now a racist?
ArmyAunt on March 13, 2008 at 10:19 PM
No, it’s not intended. My point is exactly the opposite. I’m saying you can’t “happen to believe in University of Chicago”. It’s one of the world’s best schools. It’s like “I happen to believe in Harvard”.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:21 PM
It’s meaningless. In this case, you’d need indisputable proof that both parties knew exactly what they were doing in order to go forward with this story when it concerns this candidate. Although, William Jefferson was caught with cash in his freezer, and that hasn’t been fodder enough for any media followup.
Who is Barack Obama? I don’t know…do you? His ambiguity is a shield, for right or for wrong. I think it’s a conflict of interest, but the MSM doesn’t do much reporting about corruption on the left side of the aisle.
If it’s asked, it will be ‘answered’ and then disposed of.
Asher on March 13, 2008 at 10:23 PM
No, just someone too quick to play a victim card. Nobody is saying you can’t ask him questions. I think it’s ridiculous to demand that she would give up her position. But extra scrutiny would be ok and even healthy.
All I’m saying, don’t jump to the conclusions.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:23 PM
And he’s more-than-likely not doing it because it’s a major school you’re apparently forced to believe in. His wife gets a salary raise and a promotion, and he decides that now the school’s hospital needs a $1 million earmark for its latest project.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Meanwhile, Obama jumps to conclusions because Hillary hasn’t released her tax return yet.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Is anyone watching C-SPAN? DeMint is being rudely interrupted by Skeletor Reid!! What a douche! Webb had to call him out several times. Clinton and Obama CO-SPONSORED the bill with DeMint. Talk about election year politics!
SouthernGent on March 13, 2008 at 10:28 PM
The bill for a one year moratorium on ear-marks that is.
SouthernGent on March 13, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Trivial drivel, Washington at work, BFD! Obama will and can do what ever he wants, his only restraint (to date) is his inexperience. Issues that would sink a candidates run/career have no affect on the Messiah. While the MSM fly’s CAP for him, he is banking white guilt, peddling arrogance as intellect and selling platitudes as policy. There will be no stopping the “Healing Express”, the ultimate irony is that the very system which afforded Obama the opportunity to dream,reach and succeed will be but a distant memory after his Presidency.
dmann on March 13, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Right. Because that’s how earmarks are done. You want it for your wife? No problem. Just write it – that’s all. After all, $200,000 a year is a big deal for someone who is now guaranteed to become a multimillionaire if he wants it. Only from speeches alone.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Look on the bright side. This is how you still have at least some influence on them.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Isn’t their combined annual salary something like $500,000 now? Seems like $200,000, or 40%, is quite a bit.
amerpundit on March 13, 2008 at 10:34 PM
I think the Hillary camp has finally found its voice. They are most comfortable and effective in a mud fight. The whole race issue has the real possibility of splitting the Democrat party and peeling away a segment that finds racial politics distasteful. Moreover, while the two issues are obviously seperate, the race baiting of the Detroit mayor probably doesn’t help Obama.
Put more succinctly:I suspect that Democrats will soon end up with someone who they did not think they had. Moreover, what they have looks a great deal like what they’ve had.
When it looks like they will eat their own, it is time to pass the salt.
moxie_neanderthal on March 13, 2008 at 10:36 PM
I think the big question is whether Michelle went house shopping because she got a big raise or did she get a big raise because she was house shopping.
ninjapirate on March 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM
I don’t know why Allah hasn’t posted the Pelosi clip. I almost thought of myself as a genius when I heard her. Hillary can’t win. She’s fighting for a VP, I think. Pelosi has confirmed today Obama doesn’t want the dream ticket.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:41 PM
ninjapirate on March 13, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Why, the “WhiteHouse” not good enough?
dmann on March 13, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Let me ask you this. Have you ever had to make a payroll for those who work for you, and match all of the taxes, social security, health benefit payments, state and local “fees”, work-man’s-comp, administration and processing fees, let alone pay for the pay-roll company or accountant to help you through the yearly IRS codes that change constantly?
…… and you never did answer my question from a previous thread, how long have you been in the United States?
Seven Percent Solution on March 13, 2008 at 10:44 PM
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Are you being just obtuse or do you play a naive person on TV?
The U of Chicago Hospital I’m sure is a wonderful Hospital, my orthopedic surgeon taught there (he’s the greatest) but you have to be extremely naive about the way politics works to not see the distinct connection from a $200K raise and a million dollars to her employer. Come on, this is the way things work in politics, especially in Chicago politics!
flytier on March 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Not a fair comparision. Who is Condi Rice married to that is responsible for putting earmarks in place?
Let’s put this comparision somewhere that matters. I don’t know what the outcome may be, but I suggest we compare Obama and McCain to the test on this. McCain’s been in the Senate for 20 years, Obama is barely halfway through his first term. So far we know the University Obama’s wife works in and recently got a 200% raise got 1 million dollars in earmarks. Who close McCain has benefited from earmarks as much in the last 20 years.
I’m betting McCain will pass muster on that test.
Is that fair to talk about or am I being racist?
Hog Wild on March 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Hog Wild on March 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Racist
dmann on March 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM
forget the earmark, if you were Michelle’s boss how would you justify a 200% salary increase in one year?
windansea on March 13, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Nobody. She’s just guaranteed a job there once she leave the State Department. I hope she never gets a raise.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 10:58 PM
I think you are seeing as how you are thinking about race in a discussion that has nothing to do with it.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:01 PM
If you can’t figure it out on your own I’m guessing you never attended an educational institution as fine as U of I.
The Ritz on March 13, 2008 at 11:05 PM
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:01 PM
oldguy on March 13, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Obama’s a Chicago pol. Expecting him to be clean is like walking through Bourbon Street expecting good clean family entertainment.
Well, maybe if you’re the Soprano family.
whiskey_199 on March 13, 2008 at 11:07 PM
I was attempting to be coy. I suppose I failed.
If a commercial of sleeping children from Clinton can be cast as racist because it may have links to a early 1900’s silent movie which nearly no one currently alive has seen and if they had seen it probably don’t remember it. Is anything safe when speaking of Obama? Not really on topic, but I thought a fair “insert” since Condi Rice, an African American Republican who has done nothing but serve honorably and as far as I know hasn’t acted inappropriately was drawn into the conversation when she had nothing to do with the topic either.
Hog Wild on March 13, 2008 at 11:12 PM
I have seen the question and ignore it on purpose.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:13 PM
the earmark moratorium failed in the Senate, 29-71.
bnelson44 on March 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Enough silly posturing! If you can not understand that this episode is yet another example of double standard politika and naked hypocrisy when viewed through the prism of HOPE and CHANGE, I have a cliche my Lithuanian grandmother loved to use when commenting on life; You seem to be the type who “can not see the forest because the trees are in the way” We all enjoy spirited debate and intellectual mud wrestling but you seem to thrive on semantics and conjecture.
dmann on March 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM
I don’t know how the intent of my comparison could be any more transparent but since you’re genuinely confused, let me clarify.
I have never suggested Condie is corrupt in any way, shape or form. There is absolutely nothing that I know of that would suggest she is. In fact, that’s what my argument was based on.
She’s from Stanford. She’ll go back to Stanford once she leaves the public service. As such, she has direct personal interest in the well-being of the University. Yet to presume that any grant issued to Stanford by the Federal Government is automatically a suspect is ludicrous.
If we talked about small colleges, it would be different because there’s just so many more of them that you can question chances of such coincidences. But Stanford or UChicago are ones of a kind. Or is it two of a kind? Hope you get my point now.
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Not suprised,
I hope McCain mentions the names of all 71 in his stump speech, he promised to make them famous.
Squid Shark on March 13, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Begone!
Pitiful demon, let your soul be saved!
http://i32.tinypic.com/2wp1ky8.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/nmzx42.jpg
Chakra Hammer on March 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM
You know, I am a registered nurse and I really don’t understand why any hospital needs to PAY someone to be “Vice President of Community Affairs”!? What kind of BS is that?????? Do they need some business person to run the local blood pressure screening or the diabetes screening??? That’s what RN’s use to do!!! That’s whats wrong with the system. They took the RN’s out of patient care!!! They put the low lifes and dudes on parole in patient care and there went the health care system.
bloggless on March 13, 2008 at 11:41 PM
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:20 PM
No, I don’t get your point at all. You wished Rice never got another raise. More or less a lousy thing to wish on another American. Also, you are the one who linked any earmarks to Stanford must be due to in whole or part to Condi Rice.
Nothing new with those who choose to serve our country have a job waiting for them when they are done with their tour of duty. For the military, it’s a national law. If someone who works for you joins the military, if they serve one tour and are honorably discharged, you have to hire them back.
Try to remember, I wasn’t the one who brought her into the conversation. Attacking Rice and Standford is your arguement. You don’t have to convince anyone but yourself that you are right.
Hog Wild on March 13, 2008 at 11:43 PM
We get that your fanboy love for U Chicago precludes all rational thought.
TexasDan on March 13, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Why would I be a fan of U of Chicago when I’m presently affiliated with a better school?
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:52 PM
That was sarcasm.
Yup. Is Michelle Obama an American?
freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 11:53 PM
not a proud one
and please explain how community relations were so improved in one year it justified a 200% pay increase
windansea on March 13, 2008 at 11:59 PM
I don’t know how you would be affiliated with “a better school” when you’re apparently illiterate. As for your inability to understand the relationship between a direct financial benefit to U of C courtesy of Obama and an immediate 160% pay increase to Obama’s wife, I’d say your “better school” should be very relieved that you haven’t named them.
Or maybe the janitor comment was closer to home…
Jaibones on March 14, 2008 at 12:00 AM
bloggless on March 13, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Damn if there ain’t more generals that soldiers!
dmann on March 14, 2008 at 12:02 AM
don’t feed the trolls
bnelson44 on March 14, 2008 at 12:03 AM
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