Kerry did not organize Winter Soldier.

Sheesh.

—————-

Kerry did not make any “slanderous accusations” against the troops in his Senate committee appearance, certainly not in the portion played in the soundtrack. Jason must have heard enough of that recording to know that Kerry was simply repeating the testimony of Winter Soldier participants.

——————-
Kerry pointed out that many of the Winter Soldier claims were subsequently verified by different entities. Jason’s misleading non-response? No criminal charges filed as a result of Army CID investigations.

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The fact is that some of the most horrendous claims – those made by Jamie Henry – were under investigation by the Army CID at the time. They were subsequently found to be completely true. The Army declined to press charges on those identified as responsible, purportedly because they were no longer in the military. Then they buried it for 35 years.

——————
LA Times

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Possibly the silliest claim of all? That there is a picture “dedication” by the North Vietnamese claiming Kerry helped them win the war, that they “created a memorial dedicated to [him].”
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Oh please. That nugget of dishonesty was disproven long before the 2004 election, by none other than New York Sun reporter Josh Gerstein:

While the museum clearly honors opponents of the war from America and other countries, it is not clear that the photo of Mr. Kerry is part of that tribute. The picture of the senator hangs among a set of photos devoted to the restoration of diplomatic relations between America and Vietnam in the 1990s.

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It was apparently taken as Kerry took part in a delegation President Clinton sent to Hanoi in 1993. Other photos nearby show visits during that period by former American officials who played key roles in the Vietnam War, including a Navy admiral who has since died, Elmo Zumwalt, and a defense secretary, Robert McNamara. A secretary of state during Clinton’s term, Warren Christopher, is also shown meeting Vietnamese officials.

NY Sun

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Another hint: Jerry Corsi accidently posted the photo of Robert McNamara meeting with Gen. Giap in 1995, which hangs on the same wall as Kerry’s photo. When he realized his mistake, he edited it out. Or maybe he was just embarrassed by mistaking Gen. Giap for Chairman Mao, who had died some 19 years earlier.
———————-
Original page – Photo #10

Edited page

Are you serious? What you asked of me DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. In a literal sense. I was trying to prove that Kerry DID NOT nearly single-handedly create the myth of American atrocities in Vietnaim (try saying that three times fast).

You then ask me to provide a link to, and I quote:

Prove Kerry “invented” a myth

It’s not and was never my intention to prove Kerry created any myth. As I said before, if you misspoke or would like to clarify what you were asking me, I’d reply.

Don’t pretend I’m dodging anything.

dogsoldier on March 13, 2008 at 11:47 PM

I asked for those links… what, last night?!

upinak,

I ignored your request because it doesn’t make sense.
Tom_Shipley on March 13, 2008 at 8:28 PM

Tom you didn’t ignore my requests, you just refused to give them. You just can’t handle the truth that you got called out. That is the trouble with people such as yourself. Can’t take accountability for yourself or what you say! I.E. you don’t think before you speak.

Don’t worry, we have many a good “American” in here at HA to defend your pathetic lifestyle to spew.

With that said I an done dealing with you. I have had quite enough on your unamerican attitude with myself as well as others in here.

If you can’t deal with Truth, then there is no reason you should address any one of us. If you don’t like this Nation, I highly suggest you find a new home.

“The Sniper” and “This ain’t Hell, but you can see it from here” are live blogging The Winter Soldier II hearings. IVAW are streaming the conference. 9:00AM – 10:45AM Rules of Engagement: Part One 11:00AM – 12:30PM The Crisis……

Tom, very few of those who served in Vietnam committed crimes while they were there, but your asshat buddies like Kerry made us ALL look like criminals, by focusing their entire attention on the bad guys.

Thanks to them, we all got treated poorly when we returned home. Kerry created the myth and promoted it. Now, you are promoting him. You wouldnt know a fact if it bit you on the nose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/national/28TIGE.html?

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-vietnam6aug06,1,2479259.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

I will say, though, that it is reassuring to see someone from the right use the MSM bias crutch. You guys certainly get a lot of mileage out of it, even if it does make you look foolish.

People go out, talk to soldiers, look at the US army report and convey what they find, and you say that’s not good journalism? What specifically about the article is not “good” journalism?

If you feel you need to think the worst of this country that is your sad perogative.

It’s really astonishing to read stuff like this. I’ve tried to be polite, stick to arguments, and what not. But certain people still feel the need to project onto me their bias view of an entire group of people.

It’s not about thinking ill of the US, it’s about acknowledging reality based on the best facts available.

And you do need to prove something. You say Kerry nearly single handedly created the myth of atrocities committed by US soldiers on Vietnam. But there’s report after report, including a US army report, which say such atrocities occurred. There are US soldiers who admit to committing such atrocities. Kerry did not “create” any myth. This stuff happened. I’m not happy it did, and I’m not using the fact to attack the military or these soldiers, but it happened.

Keep on spouting your line about liberal fascism, meanwhile I’ll be hear trying to find some rational conservatives. Have to say, not many to be seen right now.

This is America, the fascists haven’t taken over completely, you are still free to feel as you want. If you feel you need to think the worst of this country that is your sad perogative. Good night.

It’s funny, you say leftists hate, but the only hate I see in this thread is directed at me. Now, do you have anything to say about the substance of my response to you?

Or are you OK with just ignoring that and attacking the “left” as hateful liars?

He nearly single handedly created the myth of barbaric US soldiers in vietnam that hollywood perpetuated

I’m countering peacepropensity’s claim that Kerry single-handedly created the myth of US atrocities in Vietnam

I thought liberals were all about nuance and subtlety.

Actually, no I didn’t. Leftists lie and talk in circles and hate because their philosophy is based on what is going on inside their heads and how they hope the world perceives them not on truth or reason.

Wow :) It’s a good thing I’m not black. I know how you’d address me then.

freevillage on March 13, 2008 at 8:48 AM

Consider “russki” a term of endearment. Otherwise, sorry I hurt your feelings. I get edgy with dishonest people, especially posing as sophisticates.

You’re not black, and you don’t know how I’d address you then. Just like you don’t know that Mattera didn’t lie and you don’t know what “memorial” means. But you didn’t want to address that, eh?

http://www.un.org/news/

Linkage

The United Nations and the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) “stand side by side” in forcefully rejecting any linkages between terrorism and Islam

I ignored your request because it doesn’t make sense. I’m countering peacepropensity’s claim that Kerry single-handedly created the myth of US atrocities in Vietnam. You asked me to:

Prove Kerry “invented” a myth

That’s not what I’m trying to prove. Now, if you want to clarify what you’re asking, I’d be glad to respond.

where is that link? Still waiting!

I have a feeling I will be waiting a long long time.

You’re asking me about bitterness? that just takes the cake.

The Army investigation says this, not the AP. The article also quotes soldiers who took part in this:

The Army’s 4 1/2-year investigation, never before made public, was initiated by a soldier outraged at the killings. The probe substantiated 20 war crimes by 18 soldiers and reached the Pentagon and White House before it was closed in 1975, The Blade said.

William Doyle, a former Tiger Force sergeant now living in Willow Springs, Mo., said he killed so many civilians in 1967 he lost count.

“We didn’t expect to live. Nobody out there with any brains expected to live,” he told the newspaper. “The way to live is to kill, because you don’t have to worry about anybody who’s dead.”

Ignore reality all you like, call me whatever names you like, but the truth is the truth. The Army investigated this and concluded the unit committed these acts. Villagers and members of the unit have corroborated the accounts found in the report. There was a lot of reporting done on this.

Again, I am not judging these soldiers. As I posted earlier, I have sympathies with soldiers and their job. It’s tough work. I appreciate what they do.

But acknowledging reality is not being defeatist. Many of the accusations Kerry asked to be investigated when he testified have been found to be true, as he says in the video.

So, go ahead again call me a scumbag or whatever, I hope you have enough reason in your head not to do so, but that’s beyond my control.

upinak on March 13, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Not to worry.

Shooting fish in a barrel is one of my favorite pastimes.

Tiger Force, a unit of 45 volunteers, was created to spy on forces of North Vietnam in South Vietnam’s central highlands. The Blade said it is not known how many Vietnamese civilians were killed.

These guys may have had something to do with that

Bunch of American guys hanging out in vietnamese villages trying not to be noticed while they spied on the enemy. Huh.

How did you grow to hate your country so much that you will believe anything? What is there about you that has created such bitterness?