Florida Democrats now like mail-in ballots
posted at 2:09 pm on March 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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In 2000, the Democrats in Florida fought to keep out military absentee ballot sent in by mail from determining who would be the next President. Eight years later, Florida Democrats want to conduct an entire primary by mail. What’s changed? Oh, yes — their own incompetence:
[T]he disqualification of Florida and Michigan has created a headache for the Democratic party due to the unexpected closeness of the race between Obama and Clinton. Officials from both states are trying to figure out how best to resolve the issue before the national convention in August.
DNC Chairman Howard Dean said a mail-in primary is “actually a very good process.”
“Every voter gets a ballot in the mail,” the former Vermont governor said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “It’s comprehensive, you get to vote if you’re in Iraq or in a nursing home. It’s not a bad way to do this.”
As for who pays, Dean said, “That is a problem,” reiterating that the party needs its money for the general election campaign against Republican John McCain.
He also ruled out the state of Florida, where Republican Gov. Charlie Crist has nixed the idea. Dean suggested the state Democratic party might foot the bill. Florida’s political parties, unlike the DNC, can accept unlimited contributions.
Let’s recap. The state Democratic parties in Florida and Michigan deliberately break the rules to bump up their primaries. The DNC and Howard Dean react by stripping them of all their delegates and demanding candidates stop campaigning in those states, but in Michigan failing to have all of them take their names off the ballot. Not only does it turn out that both states could have played a much more effective role if they had kept their original primary dates, but now they don’t have the money for proper do-overs.
And now? The same state that complained about the complexity of butterfly ballots and the computation of punch cards that had been in use for decades (with a ballot designed by Democrats) now wants to use an unprecedented, hand-managed mail-in election to ensure fairness in the nominating process.
Did Alan Funt decide to do a new, political version of Candid Camera? Is this a new edition of the Dick Clark/Ed McMahon show, Practical Jokes? If not, then perhaps its aftermath will qualify. What happens if the race becomes close in Florida? Thousands of people will complain that they didn’t receive the ballots, or that the ballots never got counted. Rather than have a state elections board manage the process, the Democrats will have to do it themselves, lending all kinds of possibilities for conspiracy theorists.
The end result will have little credibility and will make the morass over the Democratic nomination even uglier. It will clarify nothing except that more than checks get lost in the mail. Lawsuits will abound, and the DNC will still have the same problem it has now about seating a Florida delegation at the convention — except that they may have competing delegations now.
Had Dean imposed the same kind of penalty that the Republicans did on Michigan and Florida — stripping them of half of their delegates — the problem would not exist. Now all of the solutions will cost an astronomical amount of money to implement, and that means money from their general-campaign funds against John McCain. They now have to adopt a method they fought eight years ago and use a system with far less reliability than that they have demonized ever since. Welcome to Democratic consistency and character.
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I’m no legal expert, but perhaps someone here is. If Florida and Michigan decide to go with some form of a do-over, and the dem party refuses to pick up the tab, therefore making the taxpayers of those states pay for a second election, could one of those taxpayers sue to stop it or sue to make the dems pay?
Rational Thought on March 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM
well the thing about mail in ballots; they can not be manipulated. what a joke
custer on March 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM
And the problem is?
davidk on March 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM
We reserve the right to change our minds, change our rules, change our shorts: We’re all about Change!
Off Topic: Great post Ed.
Will we ever hear from AllahPundit again? Ever again?
Kini on March 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Like I said, we’re going to want popcorn for this one.
Techie on March 9, 2008 at 2:25 PM
How the hell do you certify a mail in ballot? What keeps counterfeit ballots from being mailed in or $5 a ballot buy-ins on e-bay?
If this was the RNC they would have been hauled into court before Dean was done with his interview.
Limerick on March 9, 2008 at 2:30 PM
If its a demomcratic Primary alone I have no problem with this. OF course will wait for the Moonbat explosion if Hillary wins.
William Amos on March 9, 2008 at 2:31 PM
As much as I do not like Clinton, Messiah directing foreign policy scares me more. I fear that his potential presidency would be as bad for the country –and possibly worse– than Jimmeh Carter’s term. I hope disaffected Republicans do everything they can to support McCain if Messiah is the nominee.
BryanS on March 9, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Say aren’t the primaries in Fla. set by the legislature? Is it by law? So can’t the state dems tell the DNC the DNC has got to pay because the state dems were following the law and not some party rules?
This is a comedy gold mine in the making.
Iblis on March 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Dems screwing up a Dem primary. Priceless. Who will supervise the recount? Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party?
THE CHOSEN ONE on March 9, 2008 at 2:37 PM
To be fair, it was the decision of the FL legislature (controlled by the GOP) and GOP Gov Crist to move up the primary. But I don’t know if the FL dems resisted at all.
BuzzCrutcher on March 9, 2008 at 2:39 PM
shows that the dems are truly the party of unintended consequences.
jimmer on March 9, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Sounds like it will be fun to watch!
Troy Rasmussen on March 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM
This whole thing is a mess. I get a headache just thinking about it. Is it just me or does this whole debacle make a good case against proportional delegates?
terryannonline on March 9, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Who needs a writers strike when reality TV appears before your eyes.
I’m putting a TV in the bathroom so I don’t miss a moment of the DNC convention.
Kini on March 9, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Yeah, and I want this political party determing my health care and the health care of every American. Where do I sign?
/sarc
revolutionismyname on March 9, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Exactly my thought.
terryannonline on March 9, 2008 at 2:54 PM
So everyone gets to vote, not just the ones that voted the first time in the original primary? Crazy.
SouthernGent on March 9, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Whatever one may think, but this goes to show that if the vote doesn’t come out the way you want the first time, we’ll just do it over and over till you get it right. This is how a democracy works.
Democrats are proving that they don’t trust their own people to vote the way the party wants. How much you wanna bet this doesn’t wind up in the courts.
Kini on March 9, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Say aren’t the primaries in Fla. set by the legislature?
Yes, and Florida’s legislature is very Republican.
Republicans set this up and Dems stupidly spiked it by stripping all delegates, a solution that is unfair but not so unfair as to be impossible to enforce.
The real question people should be asking is, why do Iowa and New Hampshire always get to go first? What’s so special about those states? When Hillary’s there, she’s waxing rhapsodic about “Iowa values.” It’s funny, she doesn’t talk about “Iowa values” in any other state. Someone should ask her how “Iowa values” differ from the values of their own state. Someone should ask Hillary in what ways “Pennsylvania values” are superior or inferior to “Iowa values.”
daryl_herbert on March 9, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Actually, MI and FL get to vote as the tie-breakers. I do not agree that their original dates would have given them a more effective roll. They go from one of many states with primaries around Super Tuesday to voting in a tie-breaker.
This seems more like rewarding bad behavior – a democrat party tradition!
Right_of_Attila on March 9, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Vote early and vote often.
davidk on March 9, 2008 at 3:14 PM
In 2000 many voting age Democrats were unable to understand the “Butterfly” ballot as opposed to grade school students who had no problem when given the ballot. Maybe grade schoolers should have been put in charge of the 2008 Democrat primaries.
JeffersonSmith on March 9, 2008 at 3:15 PM
No worries; sometime around 2010, in the mid-term elections of the illustrious Clontobama administration, they’ll just get rid of the elections and bypass the whole “partisan bickering.”
That’s change we can hope for. Or hope we can change for. I don’t know, it’s not 3 AM yet, so I’m confused.
emailnuevo on March 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM
I always ask that too. Why can’t a big state like NY or California go first? Why not rotate who goes first every four years?
Iblis on March 9, 2008 at 3:23 PM
I was there, and I was in a Florida elementary school (not in Palm Beach, but still)! I was the only kid with a notebook sign that read “WE WANT BUSH – NO MORE GORE!” And, as I recall, Bush took it in a landslide.
emailnuevo on March 9, 2008 at 3:24 PM
If the ballots go out to all voters, then Republicans should do the right thing and write in John McCain. Since the Dems will split the vote, McCain will get the most. Then he can choose his opponent.
pedestrian on March 9, 2008 at 3:29 PM
Of course, this is also dress rehearsal for what the democrats plan for the general election should they lose. They’ll want a do-over in Florida, Oregon, Missouri, and possibly Virginia.
SouthernGent on March 9, 2008 at 3:29 PM
They didn’t then. Brit Hume had on this FL woman with 2 last-names, can’t remember, crying about the same thing. The republican controlled state legislature did this. This is what Hillary said last week, too. If this was done last year, why not make a fuss about it then? These are democrats.
cjs1943 on March 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM
There’s a word that describes this situation perfectly–it’s on the tip of my tongue. Cluster[something], I think.
No doubt the Paultards are already planning how they’ll spam this thing.
ReubenJCogburn on March 9, 2008 at 3:43 PM
So they were against mail-in ballots before they were for them. This is so much fun to watch!
Batmom on March 9, 2008 at 3:44 PM
i blame the magnificent bastard. karl rove.
custer on March 9, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Y’know even if this all works out somehow and they get the Clinton/Obama ticket with a minimum of weeping/wailing/gnashing of teeth and throwing of barbs or bombs, there’s got to be–come the fall–just the sheer fact for discussion in the general of just how inept this party is as to get itself into this mess in the first place.
These guys can’t even run their own primary process and you want to give them the keys to the Executive Branch?
No thanks.
Typhoon on March 9, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Should make for an interesting case to follow up on the 2000 election. It’s been a while, but my recollection of the Supreme Court decision was that it is the legislature that makes the election rules. Not the parties, not the Florida Supreme Court.
pedestrian on March 9, 2008 at 4:02 PM
A Broward County Dem was a co-sponsor of the bill to move it early. The state party was opposed, but quite a few Dem legislators were on board with the bill too.
Hollowpoint on March 9, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Great, I’ll start printing off the ballots, somebody find out where we are ’sposed to send them. With a little work here, we can send Florida’s delegates to the Democrat Convention pledged to Allahpundit. :-)
DaMav on March 9, 2008 at 4:22 PM
There just isn’t enough popcorn for this kind of thing.
AbaddonsReign on March 9, 2008 at 4:40 PM
A couple of months ago I was dreading this election year. Candidate Soandso…blah blah blah. Rebuttal by candidate Suchandsuch….yada yada yada. Bit of mud slinging, a few juicy rumors, and POW…Hillary’s our president.
But man, this is turning out much more entertaining. Go Dems! Don’t let the ‘man’ keep you down!
DngrMse on March 9, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Mail-in ballots are prone for distributed vote fraud and other malfeasance, misfeasance, mischief – just ask any of us Washingtonians about 2004 & Rossi v. Gregoire.
Go for the caucus – and get Rezkobama. Don’t you worry – McCain will be our next President and Barry Rezkobama is going to have his day in court!
HotAirJosef on March 9, 2008 at 4:50 PM
This removes all doubt of whether Dean is the dumbest SOB in the world. To think we may be turning our nation over to clowns like this is nauseating.
volsense on March 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Volense:
Tell me you’re just not just a teensy bit excited about Dean’s victory “Yearrrggghhh!”, come November.
DngrMse on March 9, 2008 at 4:57 PM
I predict that AP’s response would be Shermanesque, something along the lines of:
“If drafted, I will not run; if nominated, I will not accept; if elected, I will not serve. Unless, of course, there are iPhones and sexbots involved.”
ReubenJCogburn on March 9, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Actually, we thought we’d bring in Katherine Harris and let her run things. She did such a bang up job in 2000, after all.
Bless her heart.
Len on March 9, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Yippie! So Floridians, once again, are going to determine the outcome of an election by their votes. Isn’t it nice their vote is worth twice as much as the rest of the country, except for maybe Michigan? Why doesn’t the DNC just let every state re-vote in their primary process rather than a narrow, selected constituency? The Democrats, in their attempt to prevent Sen Clinton from utilizing the Nuclear Option, ie. sending her army of flying monkey lawyers to sue, sue, sue her way into the nominee spot, will do what she essentially wanted all along: To get the delegates in Michigan and Florida to count.
Just like in Florida 2000, Democrats want to change the rules after the fact, so they can get an outcome that is beneficial to them. Even if the outcome happens to be internal in nature to their party, this is still changing the rules after the fact.
Then again, I know most of you are not at all surprised when Democrats change the rules after the fact regarding anything, but especially in relation to their desire to attain power. They do this in many forms: Judicially, they appoint judges who legislate from the bench. Legislatively, they attempt to pass more taxes and bigger government, but the former usually end up getting instituted through the Judicial system. Through executive power, they both sign laws which increase the power and size of government and appoint judges who legislate from the bench. Why should we expect them to follow any rule, when one of their mottos is “The end justifies the means.”
Weebork on March 9, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Zackly.
davidk on March 9, 2008 at 5:07 PM
However they end up re-doing this, they should have Hillary and Barack pay for it. They are raising record amounts of money… can’t they split the cost 50/50?
cannonball on March 9, 2008 at 5:08 PM
[Hollowpoint on March 9, 2008 at 4:20 PM]
Did a little digging. First off the party composition is:
House: R-78, D-42
Senate: R-26, D-14
The law passed was 2007-30. The bill (not of the same id#) was passed in the House 115-1. In the Senate it was passed 37-2. The two nays were Republicans. It went back to the house and passed 118-0.
The House page is here, if someone wants to see the full list of co-sponsors to check party affiliation. Here is the same for the Senate.
Debate record aside, the Dems were fully on-board with this decision.
Dusty on March 9, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Any billing to a candidate would have to be proportional. ;-)
SouthernGent on March 9, 2008 at 5:17 PM
That is correct.
Del Dolemonte on March 9, 2008 at 5:30 PM
As long as I (as FL Taxpayer) dont have to pay for it, they can do whatever the hell they want.
Squid Shark on March 9, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Michigan maybe but why Florida. Both of them were on the ballot. Just go with the original outcome.
duff65 on March 9, 2008 at 5:40 PM
………. but then how will the dead vote?
Seven Percent Solution on March 9, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Lets just cut the crap and make this easy and inexpensive. After all we’re only talking about it because a Klintoon is loosing.
I suggest a duel. Ten paces, back to back, turn and fire on count of three. Execute the one who fires on two and use m16’s.
dhunter on March 9, 2008 at 6:12 PM
The party made the rules, the state legislatures chose to ignore them, they paid the price, end of story……Oh! I forgot this is the Democrat party…never mind!!
flytier on March 9, 2008 at 6:41 PM
No electoral system is perfect. Each would fail under certain circumstances. From the Democrats’ perspective, I’d say Hillary can make it easy on everybody by simply conceding the elections in exchange for a VP slot.
I think it’s objectively fair. She’s slightly behind so she can’t really pretend like Obama should even contemplate a concession. At the same time Obama has knocked her out the way McCain had his rivals, so he may have to suck it up.
freevillage on March 9, 2008 at 6:44 PM
In record numbers?
ReubenJCogburn on March 9, 2008 at 6:49 PM
For some odd reason my comments are not showing.
Len on March 9, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Just wait, they will out number the living…. unborn, aborted, exhumed, illegal, and Spring Breakers combined! Just don’t let the Miltary vote.
Seven Percent Solution on March 9, 2008 at 7:46 PM
This is why I only absentee if I have to, and I always vote early since 2000. When I was posted in VA, I times leave over election season so I didnt have to vote absentee.
Squid Shark on March 9, 2008 at 8:12 PM
Someone should ask the obvious question in the media, that if the Democrats cannot run their own primary process without their self-inflected morass of problems, how can they be entrusted to run any branch of the government – much less the military.
Democrats in control is an oxymoron.
Texas Mike on March 9, 2008 at 8:26 PM
Excellent lampoon Ed. And I’m glad to see you here. I just can’t keep up with everyone–but having you here is great!
This post is a keeper and a fwd too! Thanks
auspatriotman on March 9, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Here’s the fun: let’s say the Florida ends up being the key, ala 2000. And the mail-in primary ends up with a substantially different result than the initial primary and some level of fraud in the mail-ins can be proven (pretty well guaranteed). Do we get into a situation of a disagreement which primary is valid?
We may be looking back at the ‘hanging chad’ days with fondness for the level of clarity.
michaelo on March 9, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Let us also not forget,that Dems went to court
to try and stop the Military votes from overseas,
so much for their concern of voters rights,eh!
canopfor on March 9, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Fact: Some Democrats voted in the Republican party primary, presumably helping John McCain win.
Fact: A “do-over” cannot be done for the Democrat primary only, because there would be no way to prevent voters who voted in the first Republican primary from now voting a second time in the “do-over” Democrat primary.
Fact: The only way to have a fair and honest “do-over” is to wipe the slate clean on both sides and hold “do-overs” for both the Democrat and Republican primaries.
Red Pill on March 9, 2008 at 11:15 PM
We Republicans are beaming with pride for you Florida voters. Once again you Florida Dhimmicrats set the standard of stupidity and ignorance for the country. I toast you all.
This is so very enjoyable to watch.
Mojave Mark on March 10, 2008 at 12:26 AM
In the Democratic party Guam gets 4 delegates, Puerto Rico gets 55 delegates and Florida and Michigan get 0.
Dollayo on March 10, 2008 at 2:43 AM
Pls dont lump us all together, I am not a Dem and we used optical scan ballots in 2000 in my precinct.
Squid Shark on March 10, 2008 at 5:43 AM
You’ve said this before…what exactly would the outcome of a Republican ‘do-over’ be when McCain has already clinched the nomination in other states because of the what happened in the first Florida primary? What possible benefit would there be to have McCain run against…himself?
James on March 10, 2008 at 7:13 AM
Has anyone ever thought of checking up on former patients of (Dr.) H. Dean. If his political intelligence is reflective of his medical capabilities, I would be concerned if he was my primary care physician under Hitlery care.
MSGTAS on March 10, 2008 at 8:39 AM
I’m looking forward to voting for Hillary. I didn’t get a chance to vote in the first primary, as I’m NPA (no party affiliation) but I don’t see why I can’t change it and qualify.
Remember, a Vote for Hillary is…a good thing in primaries.
I R A Darth Aggie on March 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM
With a mail-in primary, would the ballots be mailed only to Democrats? Unless the Democrat party ran the do-over primary (and paid for people to ensure that ballots were mailed only to registered Democrats), Independents and Republicans might get Florida do-over ballots and decide to pick McCain’s opponent. Didn’t Florida have an “open” primary the first time, with some Independents voting for McCain?
Forget about losing Iowa in 2004, now Howard Dean REALLY has something to scream about!
Steve Z on March 10, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Florida is a big delegate state…even bigger if the 50% restriction is removed upon a do-over. (Currently only 57 of the 114 total delegates were allocated to McCain).
I am in favor of opening the race up to any of the candidates who want to revive their campaign. That obviously includes (in alphabetical order) Guliani, Huckabee, Hunter, Paul, Romney, Thompson, and anyone else I might have neglected to mention.
There are a lot of people who aren’t happy with McCain as the presumptive nominee. I personally believe McCain won Florida on the backs of Democrats who voted in the Republican primary. It would be an absolute outrage to let those same people vote a second time in a Democrat-only do-over!
A fair and honest do-over for both parties could significantly change this race. If McCain were to lose the do-over and the 57 delegates, those 57 delegates (or possibly even the full 114) would go to another candidate.
Either Romney or Huckabee could “jump start” themselves back into contention (at least for another shot at a brokered convention).
Anyone who cares about fair and honest elections should protest a Democrat-only do-over. If the Democrats want a do-over in Florida, insist on a do-over for both parties.
Red Pill on March 10, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Now that they like the idea of mail-in ballots the Democrats are going to have to learn that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
TooTall on March 10, 2008 at 1:36 PM
I wasnt happy with Bush in 2000, but I voted for him. Even with a do over, its is not even close to possible. Wwe sucked it up for the good of the country when you “true” conservatives gave us you boy, now we would appreciate you returning the favor.
Squid Shark on March 10, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Whic would be an even bigger disaster for the Republicans than for the Dems.
Squid Shark on March 10, 2008 at 7:29 PM
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