Video: Crist pounds the table again about seating Florida’s delegates
posted at 11:15 am on March 6, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A reprise of Sunday’s performance timed perfectly to capitalize on Her Majesty’s sudden (fleeting) momentum in the race. He has some help this time: Michigan’s governor, Jennifer Granholm, is pounding that table right along with him. Can you guess who she’s supporting for president? Right.
They’re playing chicken with our pal Dean-o at the DNC here, insisting that their states can’t possibly afford to hold new primaries — it’d cost Florida $18 mil and Michigan $10 mil — so unless the DNC wants to pick up the tab, it can either seat the delegates from the original primaries or disenfranchise five million people. Dean, for his part, says he won’t change the rules in the middle of the game and party officials say they won’t (and probably can’t) pay for do-overs in states that didn’t follow the rules the first time. Dean’s solution? Punt the question to the state parties and let them choose whether to take their chances with the national credentials committee (which gets to decide whether to seat the delegates) at the convention or come up with some sort of cheapie, downsized do-over plan that someone might be able to pay for. Surprisingly, Granholm’s entertaining the latter idea in the form of a caucus. Er, doesn’t Obama typically crush Hillary in caucuses? Now’s not the time to go wobbly, governor.
Barring the unlikely intercession of the other leftist Messiah, there’s no easy solution. Anyone want to predict who wins this game of chicken? I’m guessing they’ll compromise and re-vote just to minimize the political damage and that Hillary will go along, since she’ll have enough headaches trying to win the nomination on the backs of the superdelegates that she won’t necessarily want to be saddled with “tainted” delegates from Florida and Michigan too. Exit question: Who’s going to pay for it, though? Does that Soros money machine have $30 million to burn?
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Ferraro was on PBS last night claiming that Florida should be counted because ‘the Republicans’ determined when the primary was to be held.
Anyone?
Limerick on March 6, 2008 at 11:20 AM
I just heard on the radio this morning that Soros is now the richest man in America, overtaking Bill Gates who slipped to third. I imagine Soros has enough lying around to take care of those elections, if he (and other liberals) were really concerned about disenfranchising millions of voters.
wardrobedoor on March 6, 2008 at 11:22 AM
How about a debate dream match for all of the marbles? Barack and Michelle Obama on stage with Clenis and Hilly. Get that putz Luntz to hook up those controls to “undecided” Dim voters… uh… and a few veterans living under highway overpasses (Silky can tell him where to look) and score the debate that way.
Sugar Land on March 6, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Well then, the states knew what they were doing, and the ramifications, of moving up their primaries. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Dean is right.
The people of Florida and Michigan aren’t “disenfranchised”…they’ll all vote in the general election.
JetBoy on March 6, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Sheer genius Sugar Land…but let the Dems tear each other down for a few weeks first.
HawaiiLwyr on March 6, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Soros already IS taking care of this election…in a manner of speaking.
ihasurnominashun on March 6, 2008 at 11:24 AM
The “delegate debacle” is a no-brainer if the DNC had any.
Tell both states that their delegates will be seated at the convention EVENLY SPLIT between Obama and Clinton. Problem solved. Of course Hillary wouldn’t like theses results, but cheaters shouldn’t prosper.
Rovin on March 6, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Crist has a girlfriend now.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1981273/posts
ninjapirate on March 6, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Calling all the lawyers: Can a voter, or group of voters, file a lawsuit demanding their votes be counted? Would it be a State suit or a Federal suit and what would be the legal theory used?
TheBigOldDog on March 6, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Yeah, they knew the rules, had plenty of time to change to comply with the rules, knew the punishment, but went ahead and did it anyway.
Blake on March 6, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Beyond ironic, its
Surreal, twilight zone stuff.
rockhauler on March 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM
No, Warren Buffet is the richest man.
ninjapirate on March 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM
I think they should just duel for those delegates. “Fight for our love!” could be the motto when its televised. Think of the revenue the primetime match would generate. There’s your 30 million right there…
blankminde on March 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Speaking as a Michigander, I have to agree with JetBoy. It’s not as if no one saw the potential problems with moving the primary up on the calendar.
That’s not to say that I’m not enjoying watching Granholm participate in this little democrat blood fued…
marc@hubsandspokes on March 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM
I’m not getting why Crist cares so much about what the Dems do with their own political machine. Did he stand up and complain the the Republicans lost half their Florida delegates?
Is it just me, or does Crist remind any of you of a Republican version of Chuck Schumer? In any case, I very much hope Mac does not choose him for veep.
Buy Danish on March 6, 2008 at 11:28 AM
I think you mean Warren Buffet.
amerpundit on March 6, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Heh. She won’t care if it is tainted if it gets her the victory. It’s not a whole country issue as was 2000, but just within the dem party, so damage is minimized anyway because they are hungry to win regardless. Behavior on Iraq is proof enough of that.
Eventually they will have to deal with this though. Neither Obama (I think he has peaked…just listen to the applause from his Texas speech. Essentially repeated himself, but response was muted) or Clinton will lock up the nom before convention.
Spirit of 1776 on March 6, 2008 at 11:30 AM
He wants to draw out the election.
amerpundit on March 6, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Nonsense. They lost their ability to have their votes count through no fault of their own. That is the very definition of being disfranchised.
TheBigOldDog on March 6, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Awesome!
No good altenatives for the kooky left. Re-do it and the losing side will scream, “You changed the rules because you are racist / sexist!”
Seat the existing and there will be cries of changing the rules after the fact because of racism or sexism, by whoever loses.
Disregard Fl and MI and Demonazis will scream for secession!
Couple this with a healthy riot in Denver and Obama-mama going postal on national TV and it’ll be the best reality show on TV.
Alden Pyle on March 6, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Maybe they should just seat the Florida delegates then because that’s the only one that had both Obama and Clinton names on the ballot.
terryannonline on March 6, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Agreed.
Spirit of 1776 on March 6, 2008 at 11:33 AM
It will be interesting to see the dynamics in play here.
Liberals almost always want to ignore “rules.” Yet, here they are having to decide if they really meant it when they punished Michigan and Florida for not following the rules laid down by the DNC. Already, they are melting into a concept of “do-overs” that don’t technically erase the punishment but give the Democrats in those state a second chance to vote.
My position is that Michigan and Florida held their primaries when they did knowing full well the consequences of that action. It wouldn’t be fair to voters in 48 other states to hold do-overs simply because the Democrat primary process is flawed beyond repair.
highhopes on March 6, 2008 at 11:34 AM
The early birds had their worms taken away. Now they want their worms back.
First Hillary says she regretted her vote on the war and wished she could have a do-over. Now she wants a do-over in Michigan and Florida.
I say give her the do-over in those two states. If that vaults her into the lead, and she ends up winning the nomination and then goes on to win the election, we all ask for another do-over.
Fair enough?
fogw on March 6, 2008 at 11:34 AM
Can’t we all just do them over? This could be endless fun. I know most Mass residents would like to have a re-vote on Coupe Deval Patrick.
Alden Pyle on March 6, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Do you care about the integrity of our elections?
Do you care about not letting Democrats vote twice?
I predicted quite a while ago that there would be “do-overs” in Florida and Michigan. The only way to make that fair is to wipe the slate clean on both sides and hold “do-overs” for both the Democrats and Republicans. Otherwise, you allow Democrats who “crossed over” and voted for McCain the first time to now vote a second time in the Democrat “do-over”. That cannot be allowed if care even one iota about the integrity of our elections.
Red Pill on March 6, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Smallest to biggest is the only thing that makes sense to me. I’m not for a national primary process but something has to be done to keep the voice of the rural vote from being squashed by the city-states.
Limerick on March 6, 2008 at 11:39 AM
The Florida Supreme Court should call it for Gore, then have the US Supreme Court decide the matter.
kmcguire on March 6, 2008 at 11:41 AM
What could Gore do about it?
mikeyboss on March 6, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Add…and after the punishment is applied, complaint that the punishment is unfair or that they had no choice but to violate the rules.
Kind of sounds like the DEMs view of laws in general.
AverageJoe on March 6, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Um, so here’s a question. Say they do have a re-vote. What makes Hillary so sure the states would go back to her? Her vote count in MI contained a lot of protest votes due to Obama’s absence on the ballot, and FL isn’t necessarily a shoe-in, either.
amkun on March 6, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I wasn’t responding to your post, kmcguire, but to the link in the article.
mikeyboss on March 6, 2008 at 11:45 AM
If they do do-overs, can Republicans change party affiliation long enough to vote in the Democrat primaries and throw the process into even more chaos?
ncc770 on March 6, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Crist – hey jerk. You gave us McVain by manipulating GOPers in FL. You have accomplished havoc. Go away.
Branch Rickey on March 6, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Good question.
amerpundit on March 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM
From my Texan Republican p.o.v I’d like to move our primary up too, why shouldn’t the largest Republican base get an earlier say in the Republican primary? But we held to the party rules, didn’t even move up to Super Tuesday and thus lost all the conservative candidates before we had a chance to vote. Makes no sense. That’s extrememly frustrating for me, and I understand other states trying to change this antiquated primary pecking order that we have – I hate it too. But I don’t support other states that want to get away with disobeying the rules while we get marginalized.
Regional primaries!
pecan pie on March 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Rove, you magnificent *******!
Limerick on March 6, 2008 at 11:48 AM
I just heard on the radio this morning that Soros is now the richest man in America, overtaking Bill Gates who slipped to third.
Soros? I heard it was Buffet.
njcommuter on March 6, 2008 at 11:51 AM
blankminde on March 6, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Too capitalist for Democrats to comprehend.
Branch Rickey on March 6, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Interesting point. Florida was a turning point in the Rebublican primaries, and there was lots of complaints that DEMs were crossing over to vote McCain since their primary didn’t mean anything. A “Do-Over” for the democrats only is unfair for the republican voters.
Why can’t the DEMs just stick with the rules they wrote?
AverageJoe on March 6, 2008 at 11:54 AM
John McCain
Dudley Smith on March 6, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Here’s Florida law:
Doesn’t sound easy.
amerpundit on March 6, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Now that is praise! Thanks
ncc770 on March 6, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Oh yeah, they’re Democrats. ’nuff said.
AverageJoe on March 6, 2008 at 11:56 AM
People who think this will somehow hand the nomination to Hillary need to calm down and take a deep breath.
Even is she won both States she’d likely net only 15 delegates assuming she won both States by 4% (do the math people). All it does is ensure she will fight harder at the convention to steal this from Obama who will go into the convention leading in delegates and probably popular votes. As has been said 10,000 times, if Hillary is handed the nomination at the convention you can kiss the democratic party goodbye for a generation because the Obama supporters, and the African-American community in general, will go ballistic. Don;t believe me, listen to what the Democrat operatives have been saying – 1986 without the blood – make 1968 look like a picnic, etc., etc.
TheBigOldDog on March 6, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Yet further evidence of the infantilization of the Dems. Do-overs? My five-year-old asks for those. The Dem/libs need to learn to abide by the rules (but then we would not have had the hilarity of Florida in 2000, and the Toricelli two-step).
bookman on March 6, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Buy Danish on March 6, 2008 at 11:28 AM
“Buy Danish” Agree, he’s Schumer but without all the backstabbing politicing./snark off
Crist is a joke and would be a disaster as a “heart beat away” to drudge up a trite expression.
Branch Rickey on March 6, 2008 at 12:04 PM
each of the Dem candidates rakes in about $35million a MONTH. Surely between the two of them then can find a way to finance any ridiculous mulligan.
vinman on March 6, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Right. Why would Republicans want to see the Democrats have to spend lost of time and millions fighting it out again in 2 states that won’t change the net delegate count by much more than 15 but would virtually ensure a contested convention that some say would make 1968 look like a picnic? That would be silly. Why make it easier on ourselves when we can take the hard way?
TheBigOldDog on March 6, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Gore/Obama coming out of the convention is probably feasible and acceptable to both camps, would keep the democrats from imploding, and would be a formidable challenge to McCain.
ncc770 on March 6, 2008 at 12:11 PM
What?? Disenfranchised?? Weren’t the party hacks that moved the primary ahead, against the party rules, voted into their respective offices by the people of Florida and Michigan??? This is a representative government and they, the party hacks, did the representing. Those people deserve no “do-over” just as I deserve no “do-over” because Bush didn’t close the border as I wished him to do. They have to live with their votes just as I do….
b4lucy on March 6, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Would I get to register as a Democrat and vote in both the FL Republican Primary and the hypothetical Democratic FL Caucus? If so, score! Two protest votes for the same race.
Mark Jaquith on March 6, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Jenny should stop and think. 10 million to hold a do-over election. This in a state where spending is up, yet taxpayers (population) is down. She can have her do-over but people here in Michigan are pretty sensitive to spending right now and she might find herself out of a job if she spends that money on a stupid do-over. Michigan a l4iberal paradise with a socialist Canadian for a governor.
Snapiron on March 6, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Danish and Branch; Crist is doing the GOP a big favor by pushing this. It is really help muck up the Dems, at the same time making the GOP the ones concerned about ‘disenfranchisement’. If he succeeds and the delegates put Hillary within striking distance, the Dems are likely to tear themselves apart at convention. Their campaign will continue down the negative road, with no kissy-face makeup at the end. A joint ticket? Getting more unlikely by the day, because those two are really starting to hate each other.
My ideal would be Obama haveing a 10-20 delegate lead going into convention (anything under 50 would by good). That really brings it down to a bar brawl for the super delegates and likely gets large demonstrations going on outside the convention center. What fun!
michaelo on March 6, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Crist is ANOTHER Rino! Good grief…we’re eat up with them!
kcd on March 6, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Is this how the dems candidate will manage the government, with do-overs?
Wade on March 6, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Can’t they hold a normal election in the state of Florida? What is it with that state? Every election cycle there’s something screwy with Florida.
pecan pie on March 6, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I’ve seen this claim before- they argue that since Republicans control the Governor’s office and legislature, it’s all their fault and part of some Rovian scheme to disenfranchise Democrats (again!).
Nevermind that Florida Dems were on board with the plan to move early too.
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Now I am going to alienate a lot of people quickly. First off I say seat the delegates as they are. Second the primary system in both parties sucks big time. First off they should not be open primaries..only registered party members should be able to vote in their parties primaries not independants nor the other party. Second go with an all voting primary format cacuses are silly. Finally run all primaries the same day for each party. That way states like PA. will not risk not having any real effect. We run gennerals all the same day. I have never understood why independants and members oof the opposing party can effect a party nomination
JKotthoff on March 6, 2008 at 12:28 PM
I didn’t know that Crist had mind-control powers. I guess we should back him after all, before he destroys us all with his supernatural abilities.
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 12:28 PM
The die is cast. Hold your primary early and be “punished” by the parties. Then you get a do-over where you get to decide who the nominee will be.
Valiant on March 6, 2008 at 12:31 PM
@highhopes – it is easy to criticize the liberals, but what did we do? ROLL OVER. I can’t believe it, they are showing more spine than us.
A Axe on March 6, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Aaahh! Thanks.
Buy Danish on March 6, 2008 at 12:47 PM
…and in the process you get to hijack the Republican nomination and vote twice, too!
Just think, if Dems had been allowed to steal the 2000 election in Florida, who do you think would be President right now? Who do you think would have been confirmed into the Supreme Court seats now occupied by Roberts and Alito?
Don’t allow a Democrat-only do-over in Florida or Michigan. If they want a do-over, insist on do-overs for both parties.
Red Pill on March 6, 2008 at 12:47 PM
JKotthoff,
The system is setup so that the power structure of the country, including the media, selects the nominees. What are the chances that McCain would be the nominee if all primaries were held on the same day with all 10 candidates in the Republican Party? Answer: ZIP! If conservatives want to know why we don’t have a Thompson/Hunter ticket, there’s your answer.
I agree…hold the primaries on the same day with all the candidates. Have a run off primary with the top two from the first election. Bingo, the people actually elect the nominee. Unfortunately, the constitution doesn’t rule parties. They get to set whatever rules they want. Thus, they get to “select” presidential candidates.
orlandocajun on March 6, 2008 at 12:51 PM
I’m not sure what you mean by “rolled over.” The GOP primaries were rigged from the beginning to get a liberal Republican the nomination. It was supposed to have been Rudy but McCain is just as good a substitute. The party elite decided that they didn’t need social conservatives to buck up their support if they can pander to Democrats. McCain’s people are even claiming they can take California- meaning Triceratops isn’t going to pay any attention to those of us against abortion, for strong borders, etc.
Where the GOP did roll over is putting these NY elitist snobs in control of our destiny. IMO, it will fail in November because Rudy/McCain/Bloomberg/Allah liberalism continues to alienate the very voters that the GOP needs. It must be very satisfying to stick out one’s middle finger at those one disagrees with but McCain simply isn’t going to be able to generate any enthusiasm outside NYC and among a bunch of political traitors like the Democrat-lite junta that hijacked the party.
highhopes on March 6, 2008 at 12:57 PM
A do-over for the Republicans won’t do any good…Super Tuesday, and McCain’s clinching, happened without candidates that dropped out after Florida and Michigan. The entire complexion of the election has been altered by the damage done by these states. You can’t just undo it by rewarding bad behavior.
No do-overs…no backsies, triple-dog dares, fish out of water, or ‘NOT times infinities’ either…none of those childish made-up rules from the schoolyard. They were told what would happen, now they need to suck it up. One presumes they were adults when they made this decision, yes?
James on March 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Jump the shark much?
They “rigged” the primaries to nominate a moderate and disenfranchise social cons… by allowing Iowa to vote first and for Huckabee?
Enough with the silly conspiracy nonsense- there were countless debates, ads run and interviews conducted. I’m not happy that McCain is the nominee either, but blaming it on some nameless, faceless cabal of “elites” who “rigged” the election is absurd.
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Okay let’s try to clear this up. The Republicans are a solid majority in the Florida legislature. Moving the primary up to Jan 29th was the Republicans’ idea. Democrats were opposed. The legislature bundled the move up with a bunch of other stuff in an omnibus bill that the Democrats pretty much had to vote for, so they did. That’s how politics is done when one party dominates at the state level. So… to characterise the disenfranchisement of the Florida Democrat delegates as “their just desserts” is probably unfair. What mystifies me is why the Dems pulled the trigger on our delegates when it wasn’t the Florida Dems’ fault. I suspect it has something to do with some chest beating that was done by the few, the proud, the early-primary states.
Immolate on March 6, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Wake up. They don’t need Crist for a convention blow-up. He’s a useful idiot fool-tool for Dems and is a major manipulator (one does not need “superhuman powers” to manipulate). He is just trying to get national name recognition for his pathetic attempt at Veep nod for GOP ticket. Don’t make me vomit.
Branch Rickey on March 6, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Can’t George Soros use his Socialist millions of $ to fund the re-vote?
I love hypocrisy – rich, Socialists.
OhEssYouCowboys on March 6, 2008 at 1:21 PM
That’s not completely true:
The FL state Democratic party opposed the move, but the bill had backing (and was co-sponsored by) Democrats in the Florida legislature.
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 1:22 PM
HH – has hit a GREAT point here!!!!
Branch Rickey on March 6, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I just don’t believe Hillary will “suck it up”. She will continue to push for some way for her to count these delegates. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if she and her minions choreographed the whole thing… move the primary date up, get the DNC to say it won’t count, campaign in Florida when she pledged not to, win the sham primaries in FL and MI, and then try to get them to count.
I agree with you that Super Tuesday, and McCain’s clinching, happened without candidates that dropped out after Florida and Michigan. While this is unlikely, I’d actually like to see what would happen if all of the Republican candidates were allowed to campaign again in FL and MI. It would be very telling to see who wins.
Our elections must be kept honest, and I pray for any corruption to be exposed.
Red Pill on March 6, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Does Soros have money to burn? Since he is believed by many law-enforcement authorities to be a money-launderer for the international drug trade, the answer is, quite literally, yes.
However, the obvious answer is to draft Al! Unlike Obama and Hillary, he is both a charismatic campaigner–and a proven winner. Like Hubert Humphrey.
Hope P. Muntz on March 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM
Countless debates? You mean like the one scheduled for February 28th, which was cancelled because McCain didn’t want to debate Huckabee 1-on-1? Or the ones where the distribution of time per candidate was far from equitable? Or the one on February 2 in New York where Clinton and Obama showed up, but McCain and Romney didn’t (to make Paul and Huckabee look silly without the Republican “big dogs”)?
Let’s all do our part to ensure our debates and elections are carried out with honesty and integrity.
I pray for corruption to be exposed.
Red Pill on March 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Does anyone know who is on the national credentials committee? Who are the friends and cronies of whom?
I’m from Florida and I don’t want a dime to go to a do-over. If the Dems really want one, then they can pay for it. There probably would be problems with voters who had registered as Republicans back in December to meet the deadline to do a cross-over vote back in January. They might have already re-registered as Dems. (plus there were stories about south Florida folks being given a ballot that they should not have had).
I think all primaries should be closed and that unless you are a new voter registering for the first time, you should not be allowed to change party affiliations for about six months before an election.
INC on March 6, 2008 at 1:57 PM
ninjapirate on March 6, 2008 at 11:26 AM,
I enjoyed the article about Crist’s girlfriend and found the comments to be astute. This is a Veep ploy, IMHO.
Crist is about the only politician I know who beats Edwards in the artificial and not quite real department. The real persona is buried under too many layers of plastic tan.
INC on March 6, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Not saying “no” to whining candidates (e.g. Jesse Jackson) is what got them into this mess in the first place. When are they going to learn? Just say, “NO,” and get a backbone.
smellthecoffee on March 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM
It wasn’t corruption- it was God’s will.
You know- the same God that’s going to perform a miracle and make the Huckster the nominee.
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 2:15 PM
They are completely spineless, with a new brain-numb mantra of “YES WE CAN”.
Children, they are.
fogw on March 6, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Remember Ted Olsen’s article offering all his notes for the Bush vs. Gore to Obama?
Very tongue in cheek, and hilarious.
The Dems did this to themselves. If the RNC was smart(!), they would cut an ad that says ” If the Democrats can’t run a primary, what makes you think they are ready to govern properly. You don’t get a do-over as the President of the United States.”
Plus, they could cut ads about the Democratic Congress getting rolled by President Bush for the last two years. If he is really so unpopular, then why is he still getting his way.
Best Primary ever, Dean. Thanks!
I’m going to need some movies to go with all the popcorn I will be popping.
Stormy70 on March 6, 2008 at 2:52 PM
I personally think that the situation is simple. Disenfranchising the voters in Florida and Michigan is wrong. However the rules were told to them before hand. Play in our sandbox, and you’ll play by our rules. So when the Democrats lose Michigan and Florida in November, they can blame, Bush.
Of course, the Dems losing in November means we still get stuck with a Democrat John McCain
Snake307 on March 6, 2008 at 2:56 PM
No way this man is a Republican. Even the word “RINO” seems charitable at this point. Geezus. The chemicals from all that fake tanning have rotted the Florida Dandy’s brain.
Gartrip on March 6, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Stormy70 on March 6, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Good point and it would make a good ad.
But that is just the point isn’t it? The Dems TRIED to get a do over with the Presidency and they damn near had it.
What’s to keep them from doing it again?
It has been said before – the Dems did this to themselves. The only difference now is that they aren’t screwing Republicans and the rest of America, they only screwed themselves.
This would be a perfect example to show the American people, hell the whole world, how the liberls have fallen. Something along the lines of how does this make us any better than some tin pan dictator ship – don’t get what we want, do over. And over and over until we get the desired result. And cast it all under the cloud of disenfranchisement.
And this may be a semantic argument, but is this really disenfranchisement? This wasn’t an election was it? These peoples right to vote wasn’t revoked. I guess one could make the argument it has been rendered less effective, but is that REALLY disenfranchisement? I think it’s a crap argument.
I can’t believe I’m actually writing this, but Dean is right on this one. Everyone knew the rules. EVERYONE. The governors need to shut the hell up. So do the state parties. They let it happen. They agreed to let it happen. And now someone is bringing in the lawyers again?
Ya know what? They need to replay the last minute of the Super Bowl so Brett Favre can end his career without throwing an interception as his last pass. This makes just as much sense and I could argue it would be more beneficial for the country than this garbage.
catmman on March 6, 2008 at 3:30 PM
1 – Buffet
2 – Slim
3 – Gates
Do any of these names sound like “Soros?” I’ll give you some room on “Carlos Slim.” But otherwise keep your malappropriated fake facts to yourself.
Educate yourself or wear a muzzle and mittens.
I’m out like Ryan Seacrest.
***
//hunger driven rant
The Race Card on March 6, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Sorry you are dead wrong here and, despite your protestations, sound just like every other McCain apologist out there telling social conservatives to shut the f**k up and get behind Triceratops in the name of party unity.
The big ticket states, like Florida, were set up as winner-take-all so the liberal candidate could mop up delegates he wouldn’t otherwise get. John McCain did very poorly in every single contest with other legitimate candidates (I never put Huckabee in this category). Yet, by the RNC manipulations he got delegates in disproportion to the popular in key primary races. It was designed for Rudy but McCain is from the same anti-social conservative/ anti-evangelical branch so it works just as well.
It’s a lesson McCain’s people are going have to learn the hard way. He may get social conservatives to hold their nose and vote for the bitter bastard in November but he isn’t going to get them to mobilize get-out-the-vote drives and get the grass roots support was out there before the Rudy/McCain/Bloomberg/Allah brand of “Republican” told the rest of us to f**k off because we were no longer welcome in the party (just look at some of the vindictive posts on this supposedly conservative forum about how much [the posters] like sticking it to the social conservatives).
highhopes on March 6, 2008 at 4:29 PM
I think anyone familiar with my posting history knows that I’m no McCain apologist. Face the facts- McCain (unfortunately) would’ve won whether or not states like FL were “winner take all” or not.
You are correct that Rudy’s campaign was active in pushing for states favorable to him to keep the winner take all option, but that’s politics- not a conspiracy of unnamed “elites”.
The reason that “winner take all” is an attractive option from the state perspective is that it makes winning that state far more important than in a state that distributes delegates proportionally. The reason cited by FL for moving early was so they’d have more influence as an early state, and going winner-take-all further increases their influence on the election.
Missouri, Tennesse, Montana, Arizona and Utah were winner-take-all as well. Which subset of social-con hating elites were responsible for that?
Hollowpoint on March 6, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Sorry. Wrong game. Not Super Bowl, NFC Championship …
My bad.
catmman on March 6, 2008 at 6:46 PM
Actually, having the Florida GOP primary early helped McCain, because it caused Giuliani to drop out before Super Tuesday. If the FL primary had been on Super Tuesday I (February 5), Giuliani would have been in all the Super Tuesday states, and probably would have won NY and NJ, and probably pulled enough votes away from McCain in some other states to allow Romney to win more states. Giuliani might not have had much support on Super Tuesday and dropped out shortly thereafter, but the McCain-Romney delegate race would have been much closer (without his winner-take-all wins in NY, NJ, CT, and MO), and Romney probably would have stuck around much longer. The early GOP primary in FL caused a clear leader to emerge much earlier, and gave Republicans an early nominee while the Democrats continue to squabble until April 22 and possibly beyond, which is deinitely an advantage for the Republicans.
From a conservative’s point of view, Romney was a more attractive candidate than McCain (younger, more articulate, more conservative on some issues), but two issues probably held him back–his conversion to conservative positions was recent, and not believable to some voters, and some religious conservatives see Mormonism as a cult–a minority, to be sure, but enough to cost Romney the general election. The early FL primary, even though only half the delegates are counted, probably gave the GOP its most electable nominee.
As for the Democrats, the question remains–what if neither candidate gets to 2,025 delegates after the remaining primaries are over? Do they go to the convention with 367 delegates missing (210 from FL, 157 from MI) and try to twist the arms of super-delegates, or do they try to make some arrangement for FL and MI over the summer? Obviously, Hillary has a greater interest in “do-over” primaries than Obama, so if the DNC won’t pay for them, why not let Hillary’s campaign pay for them?
Steve Z on March 6, 2008 at 7:11 PM
@high – yes rolled over. The Republican party allowed half the delegates to sit. The Democrat party hasn’t – tell me who rolled over well?
When you see a spade you call it a spade.
A Axe on March 6, 2008 at 8:04 PM
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