If you’re not Ammo, you’re waiting on them.

This new weapon,Broach is gonna make one helluva kick-ass
wine opener!Haha

Yeah, probably the rest of your life…

“Tehran manufacturing concrete so super-reinforced that bunkers built with it might be impenetrable to all conventional ordnance …”

So, uhhhh, were these super freaky deaky bunkers built to protect the nuclear weapons they aren’t manufacturing?

Seems like they’re going to a lot trouble to protect nuclear facilities that are only built to produce electricity, don’t ya think?

The other point is economical. Iran is an economic basket case. Hardened shelters may cost a hundred million bucks a pop and they don’t hold all that much. That means that Iran can not afford to shelter all its atom bomb program in super-hardened shelters. So the next best thing is disperse the program and hide it.

And how about dialing back the expectations of finding a Dr. Evil super-lair full of Iranian nukes? Does anyone remember all those diagrams in glossy newsmagazines of Osama Bin Laden’s superfortress in Tora Bora, complete with hyrdoelectric power and generators and dormitories and hospital suites? Then Tora Bora turned out to be just a hill with some holes dug in it and we never saw those elaborate illustrations of Osama’s underground city again.

I suspect that Iran is opting to hide its nuclear goodies rather than bunker them up.

Aren’t some of them opposed to the Mecca shrines? So threatening to blow them up is of limited utility. I think I read that some of the more fundamentalist Muslims abhor the idolotry implicit in having shrines. Anybody here know if that’s right?

Bad Penny on March 3, 2008 at 3:48 PM

I’d be nice to have Robert Spencer weigh in on this, but here’s my 2 bits: you’re talking about the difference between “high” Islam and “folk” Islam. High, or more theologically orthodox, Islam would speak against the veneration of Islamic saints and the magical powers associated with their shrines. Folk Islam is a term broadly describing the practice of Islam mixed with “folk” or more animistic practices. Dervishism in Turkey is probably the best know example.

As far as adherence goes, “folk” Islam predominates. That is, most Muslims include in their worldview practices which are not taught by the Koran, and some which would arguably be forbidden. In many areas, the local Imam is more like a shaman.

I’m not going to comment on whether they’re high value targets, but I don’t think the Islamic world would say “ehhh, whatever” to attacks on them.

Aristotle:

Search for “Sedan Crater” on Google Earth.

Section of Battleship barrel + fins + tac nuke = collapsed bunker.

Kristopher on March 3, 2008 at 3:01 PM

As Kris just eluded to, there is NO BUNKER ON EARTH that can’t be penetrated by someone with the resolve to penetrate.

Hizballah has built 100+ ft deep bunkers in Lebanon – Iran may have 200ft bunkers which are impenetrable. This is why ground forces are a must in any kind of operation.

Aristotle on March 3, 2008 at 2:42 PM

Perhaps we will lob more than one into the bunkers? I seem to recall back in Gulf War, part I, a movie was made where one cruise missile blew a hole into a bunker, and it was quickly followed by another one that went into the hole the first made. That has to hurt.

threaten to wipe Mecca’s idols–sorry, shrines–off the map if they harm us.

Aren’t some of them opposed to the Mecca shrines? So threatening to blow them up is of limited utility. I think I read that some of the more fundamentalist Muslims abhor the idolotry implicit in having shrines. Anybody here know if that’s right?

There is also a Navy-only variant, the AGM-154C. The AGM-154C, in addition to the common GPS/INS guidance, will use an autonomous imaging infrared seeker for target acquisition and terminal guidance. The AGM-154C will carry the British Aerospace multiple warhead system (Broach). The Broach warhead, consisting of an augmenting charge and a follow-through bomb, can be set to explode both warheads simultaneously or sequentially. The AGM-154C is designed to attack point targets vulnerable to blast and fragmentation effects and point targets vulnerable to penetration, such as industrial facilities, logistical systems, and hardened facilities.

University of Tehran made several cubes between 50,000 to 60,000 psi, and possible stronger! I thought the aggregate to be made from quartz, and I also remember some steel fibers in the mix

Yeah, here’s where the Iranians hit the BS meter.

For full disclosure/absolute moral authority points, I’m a structural engineer, PE, and got my masters at UT Austin (who the hell is UT Arlington?) The scare quote from Danger Room quotes a student who participated in a competition based on 2×2 test cubes.

Steel fibers in the mix=steel reinforcement. So the Iranians made a steel reinforced concrete cube, which ought to have been against the rules of whatever the competition was. Regardless, you cannot derive a concrete strength (the strength of the concrete alone) based on a test of a reinforced specimen (concrete plus steel.) The UTA student would have been pleasantly surprised to see his test results soar too if he’d doped his specimen with steel fibers.

This is not to say the Iranians aren’t working on high strength concrete, or that it’s not an issue for bunker busting. The dynamic properties of concrete are different (and much higher) than what you would get out of the standard labratory compression test, but I assume they corrolate well.

In practical terms in the US, high strength concrete is anything over 8000 psi. IIRC, the northwest uses quite a bit, and I believe they have built structures using 20,000 psi concrete. If they had a 20- or 30- psi mix and used even a relatively small percentage of steel fibers, 50,000 pounds doesn’t surprise me at all.

Search for “Sedan Crater” on Google Earth.

Section of Battleship barrel + fins + tac nuke = collapsed bunker.