Are there a lot of commonalities in the roots of these languages?

entagor on March 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM

I encounter a lot of Arabic words with roots in Hebrew and Aramaic.

rmunn on March 3, 2008 at 11:32 AM

Thanks for the insight

Yes, Jimbo, I know. Even in modern Hebrew, “dar” means “to dwell” and “charb” comes from “cherev” or “chorav”, meaning a “sword” or “destruction/desolation” respectively.

Shy Guy on March 3, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Lucky are those who know these languages. I never have considered any comparisons between arabic and hebrew. Are there a lot of commonalities in the roots of these languages?

One more comment: almost every time I try to login via Bloggin the Qur’an, I get a 404 error. I have learned that I must go to another (non-Spencer) thread to get in. Sometimes I have to sign in a second time, sometimes the comments window will pop up in the other thread. It is only Blogging the Qur’an that gives this problem. Once logged in there is no problem. I used to think the thread was closed to comments

What is most astonishing to me, after 9-11 thrust Islam into our daily lives, is how utterly insecure the religion is as a whole. It’s obvious that Muslims have very little faith in their religion. The text you point out only confirms in my mind that ol’ Mo and his ilk knew what he was doing in perpetrating the biggest lie on humanity in world history.

“Believe what we say or we’ll kill you” I think sums it up…

we have no need of what is in the other books that came before. Neither Allah nor His Messenger required us to refer to them.”

Except that there is indeed an ayat which directs the Muslim to the other Holy Books for further instruction. I don’t have the reference handy. Do you know if offhand, Robert?

A ha! I knew the Koran suggested remaining totally ignorant.

But you can still have sex with your slave girls even those who are already married, not so?

Yes, and that wouldn’t be adultery either — but they have to be your slave girls.

Again with the commandment to ‘not commit adultery’. So how therefore can the Koran go on to justify 4 wives?

Four wives ain’t adultery in Islam. It’s allowed according to Qur’an 4:3. Now five wives, that would be adultery. Or having a tryst with someone who wasn’t a wife at all. That would be adultery. But four wives? Not adultery.

Robert Spencer on March 2, 2008 at 3:59 PM

But you can still have sex with your slave girls even those who are already married, not so?

Ref: Qur’an 23:5-7

What Allah has told us in His Book (the Qur’an) is sufficient and we have no need of what is in the other books that came before. Neither Allah nor His Messenger required us to refer to them.

This is the Moslem version of having their cake and eating it too. They declare that they accept Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and others as prophets, thereby allowing them to claim the moral authority of those prophets for Islam. Then they completely disregard every other prophet but theirs.

And what is a prophet, if not someone with a message from God? So if you acknowledge someone as a prophet of God, but ignore that prophet’s message, then you don’t really acknowledge him as a prophet at all.

In truth, then, Mohammed is not just the greatest of all prophets to Muslims: he is the only prophet.

Of course, if you were to point this out to a Muslim, he would also tell you that the Bible is corrupt anyway. So again, they are able to claim they believe the Bible is a holy book from God, while ignoring it completely.

9. “Pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge”

Nice commandment there, keep it dark.
Keeps the bar set pretty low I’d say.

Robert, was this possibly put in to make sure that his followers did not question Muhammad’s ways, or prevent them from learning about other religions?

“…some of them are fabricated, concocted by their heretics, and others may be true, but we have no need of them, praise be to Allah.”

There seems to be a blurry spot between faith and ignorance for Ibn Kathir, but that could just be symptomatic of Islam.

Thanks for the continuing education Robert.

For instance in Luke 2:14 an angel announced the birth of Christ and a multitude of heavenly host rejoined “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men”

This phrase has been represented as a herald for world peace, which obviously never happened.

Actually, most Bible scholars agree that the phrase “good will toward men”, from the early-17th-century King James Version of the Bible, is a mistranslation. A more accurate translation would be “peace to men of good will”, or even “peace to men on whom his [i.e., God's] favor rests”, which is what most modern translations have for that verse.

Not that this is particularly relevant to the discussion of the Qur’an, of course.

Could the wealth of the orphan also mean a youngster who has inherited some money from deceased parents?

Yes. As you’ll see in a couple of weeks, Sura 18 has as a minor character a couple of young men whose inheritance is threatened until they receive some unlikely help from an Islamic holy man.

Yes, Jimbo, I know. Even in modern Hebrew, “dar” means “to dwell” and “charb” comes from “cherev” or “chorav”, meaning a “sword” or “destruction/desolation” respectively.

My initial reference to “Darwood” was a play on the name “Derwood”, the derogatory nickname given in Bewitched by Darrin Steven’s mother-in-law, Endora, whenever referring to him.

Shy Guy on March 3, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Kool. nice post :)

v31:

Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.

Imagine living as a Beduoin or nomad c700AD. Birth control exists only in the crudest of forms and abortion is outlawed by your religion. You are hopefully responsible in having only one wife to care for, but your religion allows you up to four. Where does a desert herdsman get the means to feed and clothe the inevitable numerous children that proceed from his loins?? Were there people so poor that they faced the choice of either killing their infants now, or allowing them to slowly die of starvation? The commandment of v31 (or any commandment for that matter) would not exist if this were not already being done by the local population. Conditions must have been truly horrific back in that time.

v34 is the one that really stumps me:

Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.

Huh? The wealth of the orphan is an oxymoron. The nearest I can make out is possibly not to take orphans as personal slaves…. but that is just a guess.

4. Not kill their children for fear of poverty (v. 31)

Was this (or is this) a big problem for muslims? I don’t want to be poor, so I’ll kill the kids?

7. Not seize the wealth of orphans (v. 34)

Are you saying it’s wrong to take candy from babies? Thank goodness for the sweet, peace-loving jihadis showing us the way.

I may just have to read the Koran’s words next time, before I flush them away.

My initial reference to “Darwood” was a play on the name “Derwood”, the derogatory nickname given in Bewitched by Darrin Steven’s mother-in-law, Endora, whenever referring to him.

Regards from Darwood al Harb.

Shy Guy on March 2, 2008 at 10:44 AM

I assume you know that Dar al Harb in Arabic translates: World at War

jimbo2008 on March 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM

Actually I will expand upon this: To the fundamentalist Muslim, there is only 2 conditions in the world: Dar al Islam or Dar al Harb which literally translates: Land or World of Islam (that part of the world controlled by Islam) or Land or World of War (that part of the world not controlled by Islam). There is NO PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE IN FUNDAMENTAL ISLAM. They are at war with ALL infidels.

Regards from Darwood al Harb.

Shy Guy on March 2, 2008 at 10:44 AM

I assume you know that Dar al Harb in Arabic translates: World at War

Was Muhammad “bewitched”?

By Robert Spencer
I don’t know about Muhammad, but Liz Montgomery sure did bewitch me as a teen boy in the 60′s & 70′s. :)

Morality in Islam seems very slippery to me with the definitions in constant flux. Or were the terms only fluctuating while Muhammed was alive and it is more set now that he is no longer getting revelations?

Exactly so. It isn’t fluctuating at all now. It is very, very set.

Muhammad allowed for temporary marriage. The Sunnis say he later canceled this permission. The Shia say he didn’t. In any case, yes, it provides for an easy veneer of piety over the culture, since no one has extramarital sex. They just get married first, for an hour or two.

Robert Spencer on March 2, 2008 at 5:15 PM

I read about this in one of your books and thought it was laughable. Morality in Islam seems very slippery to me with the definitions in constant flux. Or were the terms only fluctuating while Muhammed was alive and it is more set now that he is no longer getting revelations?