Like I said, Dev saved many Jews and is commemerated in Israel to this day. If your only source is a leftist from UCC then excuse me if I don’t swallow what I’m being fed.

aengus on March 2, 2008 at 12:11 AM

No – De Valera’s shameful record has been exposed from historians from a variety of political persuasions. He only admitted 60 Jews during the whole of the period of the Third Reich. When he finally relented in the late 1940s after the horrors of the Holocaust were laid open to the world, he also let in a bunch of Nazi war criminals. Most Israelis now recognise his shameful record – unfortunately those many thousands of Jews to whom he refused asylum between 1933 and 1945 died in the Holocaust, so can’t speak up.

The record speaks for itself. De Valera was Eire’s worst ever leader.

Half of them Ulstermen? They are not in consideration. You’re right that a lot of the brave men who volunteered were ostracised but when I said Irish volunteers I meant the 100,000 volunteers from the Republic of Ireland.

My figures come from historian Yvonne McEwan, who divides the 100,000 volunteers equally between Ulster and the south. If you have some objection to her figures, please provide scholarly grounds.

Name a single aspect of modern liberalism that affects Ireland today that wasn’t imported from the US or Canada.

aengus on March 2, 2008 at 12:26 AM

Simple. Let’s begin with one of de Valera’s favorite phrases: ‘Britain’s difficulty is Ireland’s opportunity’, even, it seems, when it comes to fighting genocidal fascists. Moral relativism has a long and distinct history in Irish politics, and de Valera, perhaps the worst ever leader of the Republic, was one of its champions.

A jihadi mission against Ireland would destroy the self-blaming explanations that many in Europe and the US offer regarding the nature of Islamist terrorism. It would show that the terrorists don’t target the West because of American foreign policy, or because of Western support for Israel.

There has already been plenty of evidence for this that has meant nothing to the masses. Just as in Spain after their bombings, there will be protests against the Americans who brought this on them, a leftward, pacifist move at the polls and stricter conditions for American troop movements.

They are gnawing at the edges and when president barry gets rid of the Patriot Act and starts looking out for the rights of terrorists and illegal aliens we all better start wearing flak jsckets to concerts, football games and the supermarket.

the culture of moral relativism ran deep.

No it didn’t. Here’s a useful exercise: Name a single aspect of modern liberalism that affects Ireland today that wasn’t imported from the US or Canada.

Every one of those volunteers, half of whom were Ulstermen, was a better man than he. Many of them were ostracised in de Valera’s Ireland for siding with the British – the culture of moral relativism ran deep.

Half of them Ulstermen? They are not in consideration. You’re right that a lot of the brave men who volunteered were ostracised but when I said Irish volunteers I meant the 100,000 volunteers from the Republic of Ireland. These figures are not in dispute like the 2 Jews Dev saved.

Some historians, like Dermot Keogh of University College Cork, estimate that only 60 Jewish refugees were permitted entry by de Valera during WW2

That some historians come up with such bogus estimates is to be expected. 60 Jews? Look it up in 10 years and it’ll be 4 Jews.

Like I said, Dev saved many Jews and is commemerated in Israel to this day. If your only source is a leftist from UCC then excuse me if I don’t swallow what I’m being fed.

I also want to add that Dev was one of the most philo-semitic Western leaders in history (not that you accused him of anti-semitism). He saved many Jewish in the same manner as Oskar Schindler

No – this is a gross exaggeration. He bears no resemblance to Schindler. De Valera operated one of the most restrictive immigration policies of any nation against Jews fleeing the Nazis. His pro-fascist ambassador for Berlin, Charles Bewley openly glorified the Nazis. Some historians, like Dermot Keogh of University College Cork, estimate that only 60 Jewish refugees were permitted entry by de Valera during WW2 – compared to the tens of thousands who fled to Britain this is an absolutely shameful record. It is probable that the fascist General Franco saved more Jews during the period of the Third Reich than did de Valera. Irish policy did improve a little after WW2 had finished (it was for this later activity that some trees were planted in his name in Israel) but this puny attempt was far too little too late.

Let’s not forget that even worse, de Valera decided to harbour a series of Nazi War criminals, in spite of US pleading that he abstain from such a policy. These included Artukovic and Laine, responsible for the extermination of a million men women and children between them. His moral relativism was a forerunner of the liberal appeasement of fascism that is rampant today.

100,000 Irish volunteers. But they weren’t defying Dev.

Every one of those volunteers, half of whom were Ulstermen, was a better man than he. Many of them were ostracised in de Valera’s Ireland for siding with the British – the culture of moral relativism ran deep.

I have no intention to glorify Michael Collins, and certainly not his use of terror tactics. Neither should de Valera’s crackdown on the appalling IRA, who were openly in alliance with Hitler, be discounted. But the rotten roots of the Irish left are deep, and help to explain the now rampant anti-Americanism on that side of the political spectrum.

I think we are going to see more of the jihadi efforts to look for soft targets. Events like St. Patrick’s Day are ideal for a group with an MO of bombs in crowded locations. Plenty of those kind of events in the US and European nations with troops in Iraq or Afghanistan, so Ireland seems odd, unless the jihadis think it is especially soft. However, I think the Irish are probably one of the world’s police forces with real experience dealing with terrorists on a continuing basis.

NO sympathy for the Irish here.

You ran into an arrogant jackass in a bar who chastised you so now you’ve NO sympathy for the Irish as potential victims of terrorist attacks?

That’s interesting. Four months ago I ran into an American tourist who was unimpressed with my support for the Republican Party and Bush and let me know it. It didn’t drive me to irrational apathy.

I don’t know you mister but if some jihadist were to murder you tomorrow I’d feel diminished when I read about it in the newspaper irregardless of your political opinions.

Indeed, but the valient wing of Irish in the tradition of Michael Collins have worked hard to stop them.

Ironically Collins invented modern guerilla warfare (he was Che Guevara’s hero). The Marxists/jihadis have to import everything, even their succesful methods of warfare from the West.

Pax americana on March 1, 2008 at 1:27 PM

De Valera is a complex figure and a proper answer to your comment would take a long essay. If Dev was in office today those three Afghans would hang. He signed the death warrants of hundreds of IRA terrorists.

His condolences over the death of Hitler signify one of the most disgraceful and inexcusable episodes in Irish history but he did it not because of sympathy for fascism but even worse to snub the British. The kind of self-involved parochialism it takes to do that is almost impossible for any modern person to understand yet that was the mentality.

I also want to add that Dev was one of the most philo-semitic Western leaders in history (not that you accused him of anti-semitism). He saved many Jewish (and German) children by offering them asylum in Ireland, a respite from the conflict. There’s a park in Israel named after him. He saved Jews in the same manner as Oskar Schindler who gets a glowing film biopic despite being a member of the Nazi pary and a war profiteer.

just as there were many Irish who defied de Valera and fought with the allies against the Third Reich

100,000 Irish volunteers. But they weren’t defying Dev. He kept Ireland out of the war (wrongly, I think) but that’s not the same as being pro-Nazi.

If any body knows how build and place bombs…. I’m just saying…

Niall O’Dowd is pretty good on that issue, and is relatively pro-American considering his politics.

I can’t speak for the population at large, but from what I’ve been told they’re sick to death of giving refuge to the world’s detritus. In fact, they enacted a ballot measure to that effect several years ago, IIRC. However, the socialist EUrocrats in that nation will probably ignore them, just like they did with regard to the Treaty of Nice.

The Irish should know a few things about terrorism. The IRA used to train and cross train with other Arab terror groups. The Republicans there all came back clutching Khadaffi’s little green books.

Took me a few clicks but good to find you here, Captain Ed. My blog-reading day used to start with Captain’s Quarters, it will be starting here now…

Clavius on March 1, 2008 at 11:59 AM

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Saturday March 01 2008

Three Afghan men arrested in County Kerry on suspicion of terrorist activity have been released without charge.

A team of 20 Gardai raided an apartment at Atlas House in Tralee at around 6.30pm last night on intelligence from the Special Branch.

They recovered equipment including electrical devices and remote controls.

Gardai removed the materials to Garda Headquarters in Dublin for technical examination.

However, it is now understood the materials are not malicious.

I remember one night in the Bulman pub in Kinsale (just down the street from Charles Fort), listening to a local fellow regale me about all the wrong things the US was doing. He even linked Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo together into one long, run-on sentence of American shortcomings.

What struck me about the Irish arrogance was this: they EXPECT the US to keep it safe. They seem to think that it is our duty to keep the world in which the Celtic Tiger now flourises, policed and peaceful. They seemed upset that, by going into Iraq, we’d dropped the ball and lost sight of our primary duty—keeping the rest of the West safe. Safe to overindulge in social welfare benefits and mocking Uncle Sam.

And they were clearly indignant at us for not doing our jobs. Jobs that, of course, we couldn’t ask the Irish to do themselves.

Once this fellow at the Bulman stopped his lecture to take a breath, I asked him if Ireland couldn’t do more to help with the GWOT. “But,” he replied, “Ireland’s a neutral country.”

Neutral? Against al Qaeda?

The Irish have self-neutered.

The Stern Gang adopted the terrorist tactics of the Irish Republicans to use against the British and UN. These tactics were then adopted by the Palestinians and eventually other Islamists.

LOL…sorta left out the Mufti of Jerusalem there didn’t you? To blame the Stern Gang for being the seed of terrorism is pure delusional. 5,000 years of human history is against you.

The IRA has in it’s murderous history taken up sides with other world terrorist and has worked to smuggle guns and explosives. Ireland would find safe haven in the arms of the IRA.

Kini on March 1, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Indeed, but the valient wing of Irish in the tradition of Michael Collins have worked hard to stop them. Sinn Fein/IRA are a pernicious extreme left force in Irish politics, and they have many links with Islamic terrorism, from Libya in the 1980s to Hamas today. Unfortunately, they are a growing force.

Mark Humphrys, whose uncle and great-uncle were past prime ministers of Ireland, has an excellent site here detailing the growing anti-Americanism of the Irish left.

But yeah, more likely the jihadis just can’t stand that not everybody shares their dumb religion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/20/terrorism.uk

“Detectives in Northern Ireland, the British security services and the FBI along with police in the Irish Republic, France and Holland, were all involved in the intelligence operation that led to Boutrab’s capture.”