Huckabee peeved that anti-Catholic pastor endorsed McCain instead of him; Update: I don’t agree with Hagee on everything, says McCain

posted at 3:07 pm on February 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

Or, per Slublog’s suggested headline, “Huckabee angry that identity politics didn’t work”:

Speaking after a rally in Texarkana, Huckabee said he was surprised by Hagee’s endorsement because of McCain’s lack of fervor on abortion — despite his 100% anti-abortion rights voting record. (McCain has, however, voted for stem-cell research.) Huckabee also said Hagee told him he endorsed because he assumed McCain would win the nomination…

Huckabee said he spoke with Hagee, expressed his “disappointment and surprise” and asked him to hold off on publicly backing McCain.

“I felt that it was totally out of character for what I knew he believed,” Huckabee said, “or at least I thought he did.”

Go read Althouse for a clip of Hagee in action. Maverick, in his desperation to shore up the social con vote, is perfectly willing to buddy up to this sort of rhetoric, notwithstanding the famous distaste for “agents of intolerance” he expressed in another political lifetime. Straight Talk indeed.

And here’s Huck’s newest, and possibly last, campaign ad, replete with a flourish at the end about Republicans being “conquered” by the fact that they keep voting for McCain over him.

Update: Nuance:

When addressing audiences receptive to Scriptural prophecy, however, Hagee welcomes the coming confrontation. He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia’s leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an “inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon.” During his appearance on Hinn’s program at the end of last March, for example, the host enthused, “We are living in the last days. These are the most exciting days in church history,” but then went on to add, “We are facing now [the] most dangerous moment for America.” At one point, Hinn clapped his hands in delight and shouted, “Yes! Glory!” and then urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

Update: Maverick wants the sweet but none of the bitter.

“Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not.

“I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society.”


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I hate the end of the world crap. Shouldn’t the moral lesson of Christ be enough for people? Do they really need to invent some Lord of the Rings type conflict to get themselves motivated?

frankj on February 29, 2008 at 3:12 PM

When addressing audiences receptive to Scriptural prophecy, however, Hagee welcomes the coming confrontation.

Whoopee. Just what the right needs. People trying to bring about the Apocalypse through government policy. And hat video clip was downright disgusting. I wonder if this isn’t similar to Farrakhan endorsing Obama. Should McCain reject this or does it help him with social cons?

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Hagee told him he endorsed because he assumed McCain would win the nomination

Hagee is being a fool, letting McCain deceive him and use him. Huckabee is better off without him.

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:15 PM

I always pay people who talk about the end of the world. Where do I send the check?

hanzblinx on February 29, 2008 at 3:15 PM

…and then urged his viewers to donate money faster…

Just LOL.

Midas on February 29, 2008 at 3:17 PM

Hage, a perfect snake oil saleman. btw, he changed his view on the Dispensation of Christ relatively recently, there is a ad on youtube for his book where he touches on that

mainmann on February 29, 2008 at 3:19 PM

I’m not voting for the Democrat in disguise McCain but dang, I thought he was smart enough to not take “just any” endorsement… Apparently not or maybe it’s just his “experience”…LOL

Hypocrites R US strikes again.

TOPV on February 29, 2008 at 3:19 PM

Huckabee — The Constitutionally Eligible Choice

Buddahpundit on February 29, 2008 at 3:19 PM

When addressing audiences receptive to Scriptural prophecy, however, Hagee welcomes the coming confrontation. He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia’s leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an “inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon.” During his appearance on Hinn’s program at the end of last March, for example, the host enthused, “We are living in the last days. These are the most exciting days in church history,” but then went on to add, “We are facing now [the] most dangerous moment for America.” At one point, Hinn clapped his hands in delight and shouted, “Yes! Glory!” and then urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

Dude. Every read Joel C. Rosenberg’s books? He was wrote about 9/11 as fiction before it happened.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on February 29, 2008 at 3:20 PM

An end of timer endorsement? Fabulous.

Dinnerjacket’s seemingly very keen to bring about armageddon as well. Perhaps Jimmy Carter could set up some kind of UN mandated armageddon summit between those fine two fellows.

Ares on February 29, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on February 29, 2008 at 3:20 PM

Let’s try this again.

Dude. Every read Joel C. Rosenberg’s books? He was wrote about 9/11 as fiction before it happened.

Fixed myself.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on February 29, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Here is a general rule for Republicans: if they are on TBN, stay away. You will always find them saying something stupid and begging for more money so they can say it to more people.

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM

It’s all in the bible!

BJ* on February 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on February 29, 2008 at 3:23 PM

All the OCD’s reading the comments can rest easy now. lol

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:26 PM

urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

I hate the end of the world crap. Shouldn’t the moral lesson of Christ be enough for people?

Allow yourself, just a few moments, to consider the possibility that you are wrong and they are right. If time really is running out, delivering the following message is more important now than ever:

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:8-10 (New King James Version)

And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31 (New King James Version)

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM

This discussion, at least at first glance, appears to be more about style than substance. Do conservatives favor John McCain because he truly embodies conservative ideals better than Mike Huckabee or Ron Paul, or because he’s more electable? Or more palatable?

Well???

manwithblackhat on February 29, 2008 at 3:29 PM

ughhh–Hagee,

I do believe in end times, but not the way he sees it. His belief that pretty much all arabs are with the anti-christ is a bit off….. well not a bit..

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 3:29 PM

BTW, he better distance himself to what he is exactly accepting the endorsement of and do it quickly. I could just see an attack ad in the future splicing “Bomb, bomb, bomb..bomb, bomb Iran” with Hagee saying something like “during the war with Iran and Syria, Israel will defend herself with nuclear weapons and destroy Damascus as told in Ezekiel 37(or whatever)”.

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Here is a general rule for Republicans: if they are on TBN, stay away. You will always find them saying something stupid and begging for more money so they can say it to more people

Yeah, I am a tad bit disgusted in what TBN has become. Unless you have sattelite, not many good channels out there.

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM

As a Texan, I say, come ON Tuesday! Make the hurting STOP!

Between Hucklebots in denial, liberals trying to stretch the high turnout for a particularly decisive primary into the crackheaded speculation that Texas will become a blue state, and especially—-oh ESPECIALLY the alternating Hildy/Obamessiah commercials, I just want it to be over. MAKE IT STOP!

Sekhmet on February 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM

Yeah, that’s an endorsement I wouldn’t want.

Slublog on February 29, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM

Redpill, there are Christians all over the world who can preach the gospel. Yahoos like Hagee make things worse. I do agree with you that those who just seek a “moral teacher” are missing the point.

EXCLUSIVE REPORT: Trinity Broadcasting Network Run by Atheists — Officials say goal was to make Christians look stupid

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Whose this Huckabee guy you keep talking about?

JayHaw Phrenzie on February 29, 2008 at 3:35 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM

But then:

Watch ye therefore, because you know not the day nor the hour.
Matthew 25:13 (Douey-Rheims)

The problem is that he naming specific (contingent future) events as being prophesied in Scripture:

He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia’s leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an “inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon.”

This is open to interpretation. There’s nothing wrong with asking for donations to spread the gospel, but to claim that specific world events will lead to x, y, and z is a bit harder to swallow for most of us.

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:35 PM

Shouldn’t the moral lesson of Christ be enough for people?

No, the “Christ was a good moral teacher” stance is not a valid option. If Jesus Christ was not Lord, then he was either a liar or a lunatic…neither of which is a “good moral teacher”.

I suggest you read this:

Lord, Liar or Lunatic?
An Analysis of the Trilemma

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

I don’t really like the thought of voting for McCain myself, but if the choice is between McCain or Huckabee…..
Where do I sign up?

Fortunately, I get to vote against him in the primary next week. Republicans need to put this one to rest. Social conservatives need to get over themselves. If they sit out this election in a huff, they will only ensure a loss of rights by the left that we may never recover from.

jnials on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Hagee hates Mormons too. Just sayin’.

WasatchMan on February 29, 2008 at 3:39 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

C.S. Lewis covers the same argument in Mere Christianity as well. Just throwing it out there.

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:39 PM

Good lord.

someguy on February 29, 2008 at 3:40 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Red Pill, you do realize you just linked to an atheist website arguing against the Trilemma?

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:41 PM

The Prophecy that Damascus will be destroyed is in Isaiah 17. It’s unfullfilled, so it will happen sometime. Ezekiel 38 & 39 talk about the war of Gog and Magog. Many people believe that is the war that is coming that has Russia along with Iran and many other nations attacking Israel, and NO ONE comes to her defense.

When Joel Rosenberg was here in Tucson (read “Epicenter,” you’ll be glad you did) he made it clear that he is NOT saying that this is happening for sure now or soon. He does say that it could come sooner than people think.

Whatever the timing of the Lord’s return, the main thing is the main thing. Love God, Love people. Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by the love you have one for another! It’s one reason Joel Rosenberg has started the Joshua Fund.

For me, the end time stuff is really interesting, but I’m still working on the walking in love part :-)

As for accepting Hagee’s endorsement, He’s controversial even in Christian circles. I don’t think I would denounce him though.

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 3:44 PM

“Shouldn’t the moral lesson of Christ be enough for people? ”

This indicates a complete lack of Biblical knowledge.

Al-Ozarka on February 29, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Whatever the timing of the Lord’s return, the main thing is the main thing. Love God, Love people. Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by the love you have one for another!

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Nice point.

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:45 PM

Hagee is being a fool, letting McCain deceive him and use him. Huckabee is better off without him.

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:15 PM

The label clearly states you are to seek medical assistance with an erection lasting over 4 hours.

a capella on February 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

No, the “Christ was a good moral teacher” stance is not a valid option. If Jesus Christ was not Lord, then he was either a liar or a lunatic…neither of which is a “good moral teacher”.

I didn’t say he wasn’t the Lord. I’m saying that the Lord giving us moral teaching apparently isn’t enough for some people. They also need a big conflict with explosions!

frankj on February 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Hagee hates Mormons too. Just sayin’.

WasatchMan on February 29, 2008 at 3:39 PM

Not sure about that. Hagee was on with Glenn Beck for a full hour talking about end times. Glenn asked him if Romney being a Mormon would keep him from supporting him and Hagee said no.

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:35 PM

I myself have said:

Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 1:19 PM

Go read that post.

Also ask yourself why Putin and Russia are backing “Dinnerjacket” Ahmadinejad.

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM

Ordinary,

It shouldnt. Although I do believe that Mormonism is a cult, they do share similar traits to Gods teaching. I was supporting Romney over the Huckster, but I do have issues with Mormonism……

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 3:50 PM

This thread can only head downhill from now on. I suggest everyone head your separate ways.

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:50 PM

“Between Hucklebots in denial…”

Dude…you confuse “denial” with “determination”.

But then again…some “conservatives” would rather stand aside and let a proven liberal (McCain) take the leadership of the GOP.

Probably because they are too damned gullible and influenced by other cowardly bloggers such as…Allahpundit.

Thank God for Huckabee…who represents the minority of Americans who still believe in the conservative ideal.

Al-Ozarka on February 29, 2008 at 3:51 PM

Did McCain appear in public with this Hagee guy? Why the assumption that McCain begged for this endorsement?

And you have to read the comments over at the linked piece. The Huckabee supporters are priceless.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 3:52 PM

I was supporting Romney over the Huckster, but I do have issues with Mormonism……

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Me too. I voted for Romney here in AZ on Super Duper Tuesday.

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 3:54 PM

No Catholic in this country should give John McCain any money or even consider voting for him until he denounces Hagee as Obama did when he was endorsed by Farrakhan.

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 3:54 PM

Hmmm. Looks like the playing field of this thread includes John McCain, Mike Huckabee, John Hagee, Jimmy Carter, Benny Hinn, ImADinnerJacket, Ron Paul, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh well, as long as we’re making a salad, I guess I’ll toss-in John the Baptist:

He said therefore to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? — Luke 3:7

CyberCipher on February 29, 2008 at 3:55 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM

Duly noted. Although I personally still wary of overdoing the eschatological interpretation. But fair enough.

darii on February 29, 2008 at 3:56 PM

McCain’s website has zero mention of the Haggee endorsement, and a google search showed only blogs noting it. I don’t think this endorsement was something McCain solicited.

Unfortunately he may not be able to “Sistah Soldiah” this guy because of so many nutters of the “pure conservative” stripe … but they won’t vote for McCain anyway, so he might as well do it.

Haggee is the type of person who was instrumental in spreading the crap about McCain that cost him the nomination in 2000. I don’t see McCain befriending him.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:03 PM

Maverick, in his desperation to shore up the social con vote, is perfectly willing to buddy up to this sort of rhetoric, notwithstanding the famous distaste for “agents of intolerance” he expressed in another political lifetime. Straight Talk indeed.

And your proof that McCain sought this endorsement, or is buddying up with this guy?

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Sista Souljah of course, right?

I wasn’t ever a fan.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Teaching that the Catholic Church plays a role in the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation is pretty mainstream in Bible teaching Churches. It’s common enough that the authors of the Left Behind series used it in writing their books. Right or wrong (and I think it’s right), I think more of the conservative Christians will agree with Hagee.

But who cares if Mav pisses them off? They’re mostly already pissed at him anyway.

I wonder what percentage will actually change their opinion of McCain because of Hagee’s endorsement? I bet it’s pretty small.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Agreed, agreed, and yep

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:14 PM

And your proof that McCain sought this endorsement, or is buddying up with this guy?

Did you read the Althouse post like I asked? McCain stood right next to him and accepted the endorsement.

Allahpundit on February 29, 2008 at 4:14 PM

http://www.johnmccain.com/

http://www.foxnews.com

no mention of the Haggee endorsement. Did the McCain campaign do a press release about it?

I just can’t find anything, but I certainly don’t get press releases from presidential candidates.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Blech, nah, didn’t read the Althouse piece. Thanks.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:15 PM

I wonder what percentage will actually change their opinion of McCain because of Hagee’s endorsement? I bet it’s pretty small.

It could change alot. Catholics are the single largest domination in the US and alot (myself included) will not vote for McCain if he does not denounce that bigot Hagee.

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Teaching that the Catholic Church plays a role in the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation is pretty mainstream in Bible teaching Churches.
samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Really?
Well that’s good to know I guess.

billy on February 29, 2008 at 4:18 PM

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

I agree with point 2 and 3. I do believe that there might be a slow tide turning against this type of writing. I think it is one of those fundamental strongholds that if they are questioned, are met with calls of being a “heretic”. There are some who are questioning this…

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 4:18 PM

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Agreed on most everything. I never understood the “hatred” between Catholics and Protestants (to be fair, in the U.S., I’ve always felt like it was a foreign issue). I’m a protestant Christian, and I absolutely adore a lot of the Catholic Church, it’s really a great thing. Sometimes there are corrupt people, sure, but that’s true of all churches.

On top of this Hagee-McCain madness, Dobson endorsed Huckabee, meaning that the figures who led the Christian movement in the ’90s and early 2000s have officially lost their minds. Followers of these men – you’re on your own, from here on out.

emailnuevo on February 29, 2008 at 4:19 PM

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Yeah…That might be true. I was talking about what percentage of conservative Christian Protestants might switch their opinions into supporting McCain, following Hagee. That’s the number I think will be small.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:20 PM

Hmmmm. So they stood next to each other in a hotel. But no mention of it on the campaign website, so I don’t see this as something the campaign is trumpeting.

McCain Endorsement Angers Catholic League President
Updated 6 p.m.
By Michael D. Shear
HOUSTON — The president of the Catholic League today blasted Sen. John McCain for accepting the endorsement of Texas evangelicalist John Hagee, calling the controversial pastor a bigot who has “waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church.”

Hagee, who is known for his crusading support of Israel, backed McCain’s presidential bid Wednesday, standing next to the senator at a hotel in San Antonio and calling McCain “a man of principle.”

The vid Althouse has is one taken of Haggee (who is a nutjob, no argument) isn’t a joint appearance … right? I don’t want to watch it.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:22 PM

ugh got a phone call in the middle of that…..sorry the writing is incoherent.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:23 PM

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Awesome username (I think I’m supposed to not like it, being of Scottish descent – I can’t remember my celtic history) but I can’t imagine anyone being only opposed to McCain over this. There is a Catholic in the race, if it’s only about denomination.

emailnuevo on February 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM

emailnuevo,

I think that is a huge problem. If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and accept him as such, Whatever branch/denomination will be irrevelant.

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM

a capella on February 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

a capella, do you work for the New York Times?

:-)

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 4:26 PM

Hagee is anti-Catholic like Jesus was anti-Jew. Speaking against the pharasies, like hierarchy or The Catholic Church today, and the scribs (i.e. theologians) doesn’t make either of them that.

Take what he says (which he backs with scripture rather well) against what you think and see which comes out ahead.

As to the muslims being with the anti-christ (whoever said this, nice play trying to replace muslims with arab) listent to what Walid Shoebat has to say about it. You can also hear him speak about the Mahdi in this Stuck Mojo song.

- The Cat

MirCat on February 29, 2008 at 4:26 PM

emailnuevo on February 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM

Huckabee – Baptist
Obama – Church of Christ or mustlim ;-)
Clinton – Not sure which denomination but pretty sure it isn’t catholic

McCain – Have no clue, but pretty sure it isn’t Catholic

The only other candidate that comes to mind that hasn’t dropped out is Ron Paul. You’re not suggesting…

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:28 PM

There is a Catholic in the race, if it’s only about denomination.

emailnuevo on February 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM

Who? Keyes?

darii on February 29, 2008 at 4:29 PM

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:28 PM

Oh.

darii on February 29, 2008 at 4:29 PM

darii on February 29, 2008 at 4:29 PM

That was just a guess…I had forgot about Keyes. Is he Catholic?

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM

Agreed on most everything. I never understood the “hatred” between Catholics and Protestants (to be fair, in the U.S., I’ve always felt like it was a foreign issue). I’m a protestant Christian, and I absolutely adore a lot of the Catholic Church, it’s really a great thing. Sometimes there are corrupt people, sure, but that’s true of all churches.

This thread is like the perfect storm for AP!

I wouldn’t call it “hatred.” I think when you measure some of the Catholic practices against the Bible, they just don’t line up. Not allowing Priests to marry, praying to “saints” (The Bible says ALL believers in Jesus are saints), having priests to begin with (Jesus is our High Priest), Mary as co-savior… I could go on.

There are a lot of believers in Jesus in the Catholic Church, it’s true. I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM

Huckabee – Baptist
Obama – Church of Christ United Church of Christ or mustlim ;-)
Clinton – Not sure which denomination but pretty sure it isn’t catholic

Fixed it

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:35 PM

Republicans need to put this one to rest. Social conservatives need to get over themselves. If they sit out this election in a huff, they will only ensure a loss of rights by the left that we may never recover from.

jnials on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

I am sorry but I don’t buy that argument. Instead of the President of the United States you are describing the Dark Lord Suron.

F15Mech on February 29, 2008 at 4:37 PM

That was just a guess…I had forgot about Keyes. Is he Catholic?

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I have heard that he is. Without me checking, I guess that would be spreading a rumour. I Shouldn’t be doing that. Sorry :-)

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:37 PM

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM

Just between you and me, I think AP posts stories like this just so he can sit back and congratulate himself that he’s not nearly as vindictive as all those religious people.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:37 PM

EXCLUSIVE REPORT: Trinity Broadcasting Network Run by Atheists — Officials say goal was to make Christians look stupid

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Nice Try:

The Holy Observer Christian Humor, Satire, Parody, News

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM

Awesome username (I think I’m supposed to not like it, being of Scottish descent – I can’t remember my celtic history) but I can’t imagine anyone being only opposed to McCain over this. There is a Catholic in the race, if it’s only about denomination.

emailnuevo on February 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM

Thanks. Irish and Scots are brothers. Scotland comes from the Roman word Scoti meaning Irish. Scotland means land of the Irish. But you are right we don’t get along well because of religion and Northern Ireland. Who is the Catholic in the race? Nader? No thanks.

People may not be opposed to him over just this. But I didn’t like him to begin with because of McCain-Kennedy, Feingold, not backing tax cuts, supporting KLA Jihadists ect. I was going to hold my nose and vote for him but this just broke the cammels back so to speak.

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 4:43 PM

There are a lot of believers in Jesus in the Catholic Church, it’s true. I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

That says it pretty well.

I’ve heard people teach about the Catholic Church the same stuff that Hagee was saying, and they give very compelling arguments. In the course of all that teaching, I’ve never heard anyone incite hatred toward the Roman Catholic Church or against it’s members. I’ve also never heard anyone say that all Catholics are going to hell, and that none of them are true Christians.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:47 PM

All Catholics are going to hell and none of them are true Christians. :)

F15Mech on February 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM

I am joking BTW

F15Mech on February 29, 2008 at 4:52 PM

Chuckle

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:52 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM

I wasn’t trying anything. Please quit, you’re embarrassing yourself.

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 4:53 PM

Clinton is a methodist…..

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 4:55 PM

They also need a big conflict with explosions!

I love explosions.

fourstringfuror on February 29, 2008 at 4:56 PM

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Red Pill, you do realize you just linked to an atheist website arguing against the Trilemma?

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:41 PM

My bad…

I agree with C. S. Lewis and did a quick search for a link. I made the mistake of only reading this far before linking:

Christian apologist C. S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity that Jesus was either Lord, a lunatic, or “the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse.” Josh McDowell, Campus Crusade for Christ’s popular evangelical speaker, took up Lewis’s argument in his book Evidence That Demands a Verdict. McDowell argues that “Jesus’ claim to be God must be either true or false. If Jesus’s claims are true, then He is the Lord, and we must either accept or reject His lordship.” This argument is known as the trilemma because it posits that Jesus must be either the Lord, a liar, or a lunatic.

Posting that link was a mistake on my part, and I admit it.
Perhaps this wiki link would have been better.
Bottom line: I agree with C. S. Lewis’ reasoning.

Red Pill on February 29, 2008 at 4:56 PM

There are a lot of believers in Jesus in the Catholic Church, it’s true. I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

That is the best way to put it…. Alot of Haggees comments conclude that Israel cant do no wrong…very dangerous.

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 4:57 PM

Yeah, always better put the Know Nothingisms in gentle terms.

corona on February 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Know Nothingisms

corona on February 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

?

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

There are a lot of believers in Jesus in the Catholic Church, it’s true. I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 4:57 PM

The Church does not put tradition ahead of the Bible.

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Teaching that the Catholic Church plays a role in the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation is pretty mainstream in Bible teaching Churches. It’s common enough that the authors of the Left Behind series used it in writing their books. Right or wrong (and I think it’s right), I think more of the conservative Christians will agree with Hagee.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 4:11 PM

By “plays a role” you mean the Catholic Church is the WHORE OF BABYLON. That is a pretty appalling teaching, and it’s a shame to Evangelicals that they’d interpret the Catholic Church to be such a thing. This teaching is basically the equivalent of old Mormon teachings that said blacks could not be leaders of the Mormon church. It is appallingly bigoted. It turns normal theological debate into an us verses them mentality. This is why many Evangelicals do not consider Catholics to be Christians, because they believe the Church is satanic.

I agree with you that this seems to be a common teaching among “Bible teaching” Christians. But it is not mainstream teaching, it is strictly Evangelical. The Lutherans, Methodists, and Anglicans do not interpret it that way, to my knowledge. This seems to be a strictly southern Evangelical thing.

The Left Behind Series wasn’t mainstream either, and the fact that it slandered Catholics through and through doesn’t make it respectable. I don’t mind theological disagreement. I don’t mind it when people say they don’t accept the Church’s traditions, etc. But to say that it is the same thing as the Whore of Babylon, aka Satanic, is ridiculous.

That this so-called “theology” is so ingrained in Evangelical teaching is to its eternal shame.

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

“There are not a hundred people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church— which is, of course, quite a different thing.”~ Bishop Fulton Sheen

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM

irish_infidel on February 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Just to avoid confusion…JVelez, who you just quoted, was quoating from here:

There are a lot of believers in Jesus in the Catholic Church, it’s true. I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

Ordinary1 on February 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM

He must not have the quote thingy down yet.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

During his appearance on Hinn’s program at the end of last March, for example, the host enthused, “We are living in the last days. These are the most exciting days in church history,”

I consider myself a Christian, but man, I’ve never bought into this end of the world stuff. I mean that in two ways: some Christians feel that we’re in the “end times”, but you need to appreciate the historical context here, in that many Christians over the past several CENTURIES have felt that THEY were living in the end times, and obviously, it hasn’t happened yet. Besides, I seem to recall a passage in the Bible referencing that the Second Coming would involve Jesus coming “like a thief in the night”, i.e. you WON’T be expecting it to happen when it does. Some of these people seem like they’re confident it’s going to happen any moment now.

The other reason I’m not down with it all is that some of these people are just downright creepy with this. If you’ve studied the Book of Revelations, the end times aren’t exactly a barrel of fun, and I don’t exactly favor hellfire & brimstone for billions of people, so why should I be “excited” about the Apocalypse, even if my Christianity spares me the unpleasantness of it firsthand.

Vyce on February 29, 2008 at 5:23 PM

The Left Behind Series wasn’t mainstream either, and the fact that it slandered Catholics through and through doesn’t make it respectable. I don’t mind theological disagreement. I don’t mind it when people say they don’t accept the Church’s traditions, etc. But to say that it is the same thing as the Whore of Babylon, aka Satanic, is ridiculous.

People should be offended by the Left Behind series specifically for how awful the writing was.

Seriously, when the Antichrist winds up being the only character that’s halfway interesting and isn’t a complete tool, you’ve got a problem.

Vyce on February 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Whoa…Dude. I’m not sure if you’re attacking me or if you agree with me.

I’m not trying to convert you.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Yeah I always mess that up…sorry for the confusion.

JVelez on February 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM

Whoa…Dude. I’m not sure if you’re attacking me or if you agree with me.

I’m not trying to convert you.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM

I know you’re not trying to convert me. But what do you mean by “plays a role”? Is the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon or not? To the extent you agree with that, I’m attacking.

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:31 PM

And your proof that McCain sought this endorsement, or is buddying up with this guy?

Let Hagee introduce him. Said he was honored. Brought Hagee up at a separate event. Put a Reuters article about Hagee’s endorsement up on his site that actually said this:

Hagee, who heads a 19,000-member church in San Antonio, is best known for his outspoken support of Israel and writings on the Middle East, where he envisions a blood-soaked clash between East and West leading to the return of Jesus Christ.

And Hagee is actively calling for that bloodshed to begin, starting with a preemptive attack on Iran. Because our first duty is to Israel, not the United States, because Israel is the only country founded by God, and thus we have to be warriors for God’s country.

Craaaa-zy.

Mark Jaquith on February 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Vyce on February 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM

I was trying to think of some clever way of agreeing with you, but maintaining my original point, but I couldn’t think of the right words.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:34 PM

The vid Althouse has is one taken of Haggee (who is a nutjob, no argument) isn’t a joint appearance … right? I don’t want to watch it.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 4:22 PM

LOL. This is fun.(wink)

a capella on February 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM

I think I would say I love Catholics, but not so much the church and the “traditions” it puts ahead of God’s Word!

Who assembled the Bible?
(a) The Catholic Church
(b) God
(c) Magic

When was the Bible assembled?
(a) Around 40 A.D.
(b) Around 400 A.D.
(c) God
(d) Magic

Before the Bible was assembled, how was faith shared?
(a) God
(b) Magic
(c) Tradition

ANSWERS: (a), (b), (c)

Indeed, Tradition was used as a determining factor when choosing the books of the Bible. The Bible is a part of the Christian Tradition, albeit an important part.

Mark Jaquith on February 29, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Well said

C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Toliken both “non-Catholics” are well respected and admired among Catholics. I don’t know any Catholic that would say both are in hell because they never converted.

The whole phrase “there is no salvation outside the Catholic church” is used by Evangelicals to discredit the Catholic Church.

If they actually studied Catholic Church teachings they would understand what that phrase really meant.

Disclaimer: I say that as a lapsed Catholic.

F15Mech on February 29, 2008 at 5:47 PM

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