Huckabee peeved that anti-Catholic pastor endorsed McCain instead of him; Update: I don’t agree with Hagee on everything, says McCain

posted at 3:07 pm on February 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

Or, per Slublog’s suggested headline, “Huckabee angry that identity politics didn’t work”:

Speaking after a rally in Texarkana, Huckabee said he was surprised by Hagee’s endorsement because of McCain’s lack of fervor on abortion — despite his 100% anti-abortion rights voting record. (McCain has, however, voted for stem-cell research.) Huckabee also said Hagee told him he endorsed because he assumed McCain would win the nomination…

Huckabee said he spoke with Hagee, expressed his “disappointment and surprise” and asked him to hold off on publicly backing McCain.

“I felt that it was totally out of character for what I knew he believed,” Huckabee said, “or at least I thought he did.”

Go read Althouse for a clip of Hagee in action. Maverick, in his desperation to shore up the social con vote, is perfectly willing to buddy up to this sort of rhetoric, notwithstanding the famous distaste for “agents of intolerance” he expressed in another political lifetime. Straight Talk indeed.

And here’s Huck’s newest, and possibly last, campaign ad, replete with a flourish at the end about Republicans being “conquered” by the fact that they keep voting for McCain over him.

Update: Nuance:

When addressing audiences receptive to Scriptural prophecy, however, Hagee welcomes the coming confrontation. He argues that a strike against Iran will cause Arab nations to unite under Russia’s leadership, as outlined in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of Ezekiel, leading to an “inferno [that] will explode across the Middle East, plunging the world toward Armageddon.” During his appearance on Hinn’s program at the end of last March, for example, the host enthused, “We are living in the last days. These are the most exciting days in church history,” but then went on to add, “We are facing now [the] most dangerous moment for America.” At one point, Hinn clapped his hands in delight and shouted, “Yes! Glory!” and then urged his viewers to donate money faster because he is running out of time to preach the gospel.

Update: Maverick wants the sweet but none of the bitter.

“Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not.

“I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society.”


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Update: Maverick wants the sweet but none of the bitter.

Hey, that sounds just like what Obama says about Pastor Wright or Calypso Louie,… “I don’t agree with him but I’ll take his endorsement” That about right?

a capella on February 29, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Is the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon or not?

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:31 PM

“Whore of Babylon” are the words Hagee used. I haven’t sat through one of those studies on Revelation in a while, but I’ll tell you what I recall, and what my opinion is. The words I recall most clearly as what the interpretation of the teachers was is that the Roman Catholic Church is a fulfillment of the Revived Roman Empire. And that is definately not one of the good guys. Specifically, the words “Whore of Babylon” I believe, without looking it up, are in there, and I would not be surprised if they were in the same passages and were in fact the same thing. Bottom line is, Hagee might have a little different take on it than me, but I’m not denouncing him.

So, no. I don’t think highly of the Roman Catholic Church. I bear no ill will toward any individual Catholic, and I am sure many Catholics will go to heaven, but the imperial structure of the Catholic Church, and it’s willingness to ally itself with outright paganism I have a big problem with.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:48 PM

The words I recall most clearly as what the interpretation of the teachers was is that the Roman Catholic Church is a fulfillment of the Revived Roman Empire. And that is definately not one of the good guys. Specifically, the words “Whore of Babylon” I believe, without looking it up, are in there, and I would not be surprised if they were in the same passages and were in fact the same thing. Bottom line is, Hagee might have a little different take on it than me, but I’m not denouncing him.

I see. So the Catholic Church is basically Satanic to you. Understood.

imperial structure of the Catholic Church, and it’s willingness to ally itself with outright paganism I have a big problem with.

Have you ever had a Christmas Tree?

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:53 PM

The whole phrase “there is no salvation outside the Catholic church” is used by Evangelicals to discredit the Catholic Church.

F15Mech on February 29, 2008 at 5:47 PM

That phrase is used by the Pope, too, when he says the Catholic Church is the only true church.

Since the Bible describes the Church not as a denomination but as the body of believers, and also says that it is only through belief that one attains salvation, when the Pope says that the only true Church is the Catholic Church he is in fact saying that there is no salvation elsewhere. And he’s putting on bright display the fact that the Roman Catholic Church, in it’s structure, long ago left what true Christianity was about.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 5:54 PM

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Actually, many Christians believe that Israel is the “Great Whore” and “Whore of Babylon”, and that the Book of revelation was written in 64 AD as a warning prior to the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem.

Kid from Brooklyn on February 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM

He’ll take this endorsement, but won’t let Barack’s middle name be uttered. Sweet.

SouthernGent on February 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM

Since the Bible describes the Church not as a denomination but as the body of believers, and also says that it is only through belief that one attains salvation, when the Pope says that the only true Church is the Catholic Church he is in fact saying that there is no salvation elsewhere. And he’s putting on bright display the fact that the Roman Catholic Church, in it’s structure, long ago left what true Christianity was about.

Catholic = universal. You’re thinking of the phrase to mean a particular denomination, but the phrase means people who believe in Christ. “No salvation outside the Catholic Church” means exactly that, in the literal sense. Catholic Church = universal chuch = body of believers.

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM

Have you ever had a Christmas Tree?

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 5:53 PM

Are you trying to convert me, now?

You’re talking about a belief system, and I’m talking about a political empire.

I don’t expect my Christmas tree to benefit me spiritually. I don’t set it up out of religious obligation, or with the hope that the spirits will bless me and my house because it is there. You probably don’t either. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church’s tendency to come in alongside whatever pagan religion was in a region, and simply overlay itsself on the lives of the people without destroying the pagan practices that came before. This is less evident in America, where Protestantism pretty much killed off a lot of paganism, spreading from the east toward the west, before Catholicism moved upward from the south. But if you go into Mexico, or any third world nation, you will find that the people still practice many of their pagan rituals as a subtext to their Catholicism.

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 6:05 PM

This thread can only head downhill from now on. I suggest everyone head your separate ways.

ninjapirate on February 29, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Yes. It has. A waste of time.

Zorro on February 29, 2008 at 6:06 PM

Catholic = universal. You’re thinking of the phrase to mean a particular denomination, but the phrase means people who believe in Christ. “No salvation outside the Catholic Church” means exactly that, in the literal sense. Catholic Church = universal chuch = body of believers.

Sydney Carton on February 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM

This may be a semantic difference, but Catholic does not = universal. Catholic = Body.

And unfortunately, that is not what the pope said. If he were saying that, he would be betraying a huge number of people who have no idea that Catholic means “body,” who might also want to be saved. To them, when they hear the words “Catholic Church,” they think of the big building down the street with the priests and the nuns. They don’t think of the literal interpretation of the word “Catholic.”

samuelrylander on February 29, 2008 at 6:12 PM

People of Texas:

PLEASE do us all a favor and vote AGAINST this windbag, the Huckster, so we can end his 15 minutes once and for all.

He makes me want to puke everytime I see him.

Fake conservative, false prophet.

bigred on February 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

I saw the word ‘Catholic’ in the title and knew a HOLY WAR was raging. Sorry I am too late to miss it.

Real quick…Protestants…your pastors either lie to you or are too stupid to know what the Catholic church is really about and have filled you with lies.

OK…hope that puts out the fires.

tlynch001 on February 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

‘too late to miss it’? Sorry, so eager to dive in I can’t type.

tlynch001 on February 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM

For the life of I will never understand why idiots like Hagee or Hinn who are not representative of the vast majority of Evangelicals will continually be cast as speaking for Evangelicals.

I was watching CNN one time and they brought on a religious commentator to talk about the existence of hell. They brought on Hagee…of course.

nailinmyeye on February 29, 2008 at 6:36 PM

I saw the word ‘Catholic’ in the title and knew a HOLY WAR was raging. Sorry I am too late to miss it.

Real quick…Protestants…your pastors either lie to you or are too stupid to know what the Catholic church is really about and have filled you with lies.

OK…hope that puts out the fires.

tlynch001 on February 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Lol. If only it were that easy to end such discussions this way…

darii on February 29, 2008 at 6:52 PM

I’d rather have John Hagee endorse me than Louis Farrakhan. All of you secular critics on this blog who have a hair trigger when it comes to good men like Hagee or Dobson need to remember that men of faith are allowed to make political, even doctrinal mistakes. They are even allowed to criticize other faith traditions like Catholicism or Mormanism. Hagee never called for violence against the Catholic Church or individual Catholics. He called the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon, oh dear! – that’s his interpretation, one that a lot of Evangelicals and Charimatics agree with. Compared to the criticism that the Catholic Church has recieved from prominant Secularists and Aithiests, Hagee’s take on the Catholic Church just fails to outrage me. McCain handled the matter appropriately, in my opinion. I doubt he will lose any current Catholic supporters for saying that he disagrees with John Hagee on several issues.

Dork B. on February 29, 2008 at 6:52 PM

It’s not so much that McCain got Hagee’s endorsement. It’s that McCain has actively courted Hagee’s endorsement. He has attended Hagee rallies and have had other rallies with Hagee. Gingrich has done the same. This would be like if Barack actively courted and campaigned with Farakhan. I truly find it ridiculous that he objects to Barack Hussein Obama but is fine with courting the support of a cult that actively pursues government intervention to achieve the rapture. Now we know McCain doesn’t believe in this stuff and that makes it worse, because he is taking advantage of the poor souls who have been taken in by Hagee and his forked tongue. Pulpit for profit.

LevStrauss on February 29, 2008 at 7:31 PM

And though I am not a big fan of country music, I grew up listening to it, and am very angry that Hagee has snookered Randy Travis as well.

LevStrauss on February 29, 2008 at 7:37 PM

tlynch001

You admit to a typing inability, but not to your lack of facts. My pastor has never used the word “Catholic” in the years I’ve been in my church. So don’t do so much assuming,
my friend.

jgapinoy on February 29, 2008 at 8:24 PM

I don’t appreciate someone calling my pastor either stupid or a liar.

jgapinoy on February 29, 2008 at 8:25 PM

I don’t appreciate someone calling my pastor either stupid or a liar.

Read the books above and you will see why. I would suggest the book that is the subject matter in chapter three of “Persecution” before hitting up Ledeen. You might also want to brush up on your Plato. I don’t think he is stupid because he knows damn well what he is doing. The Republican Establishment has a church strategy, they push the black evangelical churches to tap for support and they support people like Hagee for loyal voters. The Republican Establishment laughs at you, read the books, read Maimonides and see what the Commentary crowd thinks of it. They think you people are another species, similar to animals and I cannot believe that Hagee is being snookered so I can only think he is complicit. I implore you to because you do not deserve to be treated the way you are just because you are a person of faith.

LevStrauss on February 29, 2008 at 8:39 PM

LevStrauss

What? I couldn’t help but laugh. The way I am treated? You have no idea what you’re talking about.

jgapinoy on February 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM

oops…I referenced the books in the David Duke thread.

LevStrauss on February 29, 2008 at 8:46 PM

Who’s talking about David Duke?
You’re absolutely lost,
my friend.
(Like the way I quote McCain there?)

jgapinoy on February 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM

I’d rather have John Hagee endorse me than Louis Farrakhan. All of you secular critics on this blog who have a hair trigger when it comes to good men like Hagee or Dobson need to remember that men of faith are allowed to make political, even doctrinal mistakes. They are even allowed to criticize other faith traditions like Catholicism or Mormanism. Hagee never called for violence against the Catholic Church or individual Catholics. He called the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon, oh dear! – that’s his interpretation, one that a lot of Evangelicals and Charimatics agree with. Compared to the criticism that the Catholic Church has recieved from prominant Secularists and Aithiests, Hagee’s take on the Catholic Church just fails to outrage me.
Dork B. on February 29, 2008 at 6:52 PM

I’m an atheist and my sympathies are fully with Hagee on this issue. It’s not simply that I dislike Catholicism more. It’s that I think Hagee’s Protestantism is a better interpretation of Christianity, and I hope for the best in Christianity–not the worse unlike some atheists.

You don’t have to view all atheists as the enemy. Right now, we are at war for Western Civilization. It’s ok to declare a truce.

You really don’t have to view

thuja on February 29, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Compared to the criticism that the Catholic Church has recieved from prominant Secularists and Aithiests, Hagee’s take on the Catholic Church just fails to outrage me.

Hmmmm. I’ll think about this, Dork B. You have a good point.

I don’t really approve of political endorsements from big time pastors . Obviously Farrakhan and Obama’s black power/hate whitey pastor are more disturbing because they seem/are anxious to work closely with the enemy of our nation.

funky chicken on February 29, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Hagee is obviously uncshooled in Catholism and in Protestantism. Many catholics were martyred for Jesus Christ. How anyone can lead a congregation astray as I see him doing rests in the judgement of God. It is not up to us to say who is saved or not but to call the Catholic Church the “Whore of Babylon” is obscene and absurd.
Is he aware that Martin Luther was an anti-semite? Does that make Protestants the “Whores of Babylon”?
I think Hagee needs to be sat down and given lessons which he apparently never received on the history of the catholic church and the protestant reformation and how Luther’s statements about the Jews were used by Nazis. But does one judge all Protestants on that? I think not. There were bad popes and bad holy wars, but Hagee is way off and I would love to tell him so. He is a teacher, which makes him more accountable to God.

Conservatives R Us on February 29, 2008 at 10:30 PM

PS-The Pope DOES NOT say that the Catholic church is the only true church. These false statements spread like wildfire. Read the late Pope John Paul’s writings and the present Pope’s writings. They reach out to the Protestants.
I think many people speak or repeat these untruths.
You’d be surprised what you might find out about these popes. They sound more open to “crossing the isles” than some Protestants.

Conservatives R Us on February 29, 2008 at 10:36 PM

And Hagee is actively calling for that bloodshed to begin, starting with a preemptive attack on Iran. Because our first duty is to Israel, not the United States, because Israel is the only country founded by God, and thus we have to be warriors for God’s country.

Hagee is hardly the only person who favors a pre-emptive strike on Iran. Why do you choose to portray this view as crazy? You can find articles in the blogosphere, for instance, advocating a pre-emptive strike against Iran, most of which are set NOT forth by evangelical preachers. Perhaps you think appeasement of Hitler worked well prior to World War II, also?

Many Bible believers take Genesis 12:3 seriously, as applied to Israel: ” 3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” Obviously, you don’t, but, I do not assail you as “crazy” because of your view.

You say Hagee is anti-Catholic? Actually, your posts smack of anti-Hagee/anti-Fundamentalist cant.

That’s the salient thing about these loud-mouthed, Hagee-hating Catholics: They are all over Hagee for his alleged anti-Catholicism, but it seems the main thing that comes through in your posts is a loathing for Hagee and fundamentalists.

Hagee is a brave and decent man: Sliming him hurts his detractors far more than it does Mr. Hagee.

sanantonian on March 1, 2008 at 1:56 AM

You say Hagee is anti-Catholic? Actually, your posts smack of anti-Hagee/anti-Fundamentalist cant.

That’s the salient thing about these loud-mouthed, Hagee-hating Catholics: They are all over Hagee for his alleged anti-Catholicism, but it seems the main thing that comes through in your posts is a loathing for Hagee and fundamentalists.

Hagee is a brave and decent man: Sliming him hurts his detractors far more than it does Mr. Hagee.

sanantonian on March 1, 2008 at 1:56 AM

Hagee has called the Catholic Church ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’ There is nothing “alleged” about his hatred of Catholics. Actually, he is quite open about his disgust and hatred toward Catholics.

There are plently of decent and rightous Protestant ministers who stand up for Israel and Christian values in this country but do not have contempt for Catholics, and work with us to achieve our common goals, and Hagee is not one of them!

irish_infidel on March 1, 2008 at 2:11 AM

Hagee and Hinn are correct. They preach the truth. I am one of
those “radical” born-again Christians and I don’t want to vote
for McCain or Huck. I’m so disappointed that Mitt dropped out, I’m still in mourning. We need a plan C. Maybe MM can run? I would vote for her in a heartbeat. She loves this country more
than any of the other candidates and would be an awesome POTUS.

PoliticallyIncorrectSandy on March 1, 2008 at 9:34 AM

Careful, Sandy, your sheet is showing.

corona on March 1, 2008 at 10:52 AM

… and just what, pray tell, do you think is the religion of MM?

corona on March 1, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Hagee has called the Catholic Church ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’ There is nothing “alleged” about his hatred of Catholics. Actually, he is quite open about his disgust and hatred toward Catholics.

There are plently of decent and rightous Protestant ministers who stand up for Israel and Christian values in this country but do not have contempt for Catholics, and work with us to achieve our common goals, and Hagee is not one of them!

Because Hagee thinks the Catholic Church is a false church is hardly a surprise. If he thought — as you perhaps do — that the Roman Catholic Church was the “one true Church,” why, he’d be a Catholic, wouldn’t he?

Second, because Hagee is honest enough to say what he believes is the truth about the Roman Catholic Church is — I am shocked! — an instance of his exercising his First Amendment freedoms. If we all agreed with each other, we would all be Catholics (or Protestants, or whatever). I rather admire Hagee for his frankness.

Third: Please don’t blur the lines of debate: While you (presumably, accurately) quote Hagee as stating his beliefs about the Roman Catholic Church as a theology-teaching entity, his words in no way show “contempt” (your word) for Catholics as individuals, unless, of course, your pre-requisite for a minister to be a “good and righteous Protestant” minister is that he either: a) agree with Roman Catholic theology; or, (b) if he doesn’t agree with Roman Catholic theology, he exclude that topic from his preachments.

Surely you are not totally ignorant of Church History? In the days of Calvin and Luther, Protestants and Catholics often heartily called each other all kinds of names. Hagee is simply hearkening back to that thread of Christian church history.

What is particularly curious to me about this entire thread is that some Roman Catholic apologists are worked up into a lather attacking Hagee, a man who loves God, loves America, and who understands the dangers of militant Islamofascism.

Why are you not able to say (from a secure Catholic perpective): Well, Hagee’s theology is out of whack, but at least we are on the same side in the war on terrorists.

Or, are you going to vote for a Democrat because a man like Hagee endorsed John McCain? Which is worse? A patriot who thinks (like many — though not all — Protestants) that the Roman Catholic Church is a false church — or folks like Obama, who never say anything bad about any religion, but are only too willing to undermine our military and our war efforts?

As McCain says: His acceptance of Hagee’s endorsement does not in any way constitute a ratification of every theological quirk or eccentricity espoused by Hagee.

What is so hard about grasping that fact?

I admire McCain for not backing down under fire on the Hagee tempest in a teapot from the likes of the Catholic League.

Moreover, I am sure McCain would also (rightly) welcome endorsements from prominent Catholics, Jews, Mormons, and Episcopalians — all of whom would likely have their mutual theological differences with one another.

sanantonian on March 1, 2008 at 7:19 PM

Hey, Allah, thanks for that link to Netdisaster a while back — vomit really suits the, uh, high level of intellectual discourse on this thread.

Yuck!

Nichevo on March 1, 2008 at 8:21 PM

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