“Virtual Fence” goes back to the drawing board; real fence delayed

posted at 8:43 am on February 28, 2008 by see-dubya

Five days ago Chertoff said that Boeing’s Sauron-tech is already partially online and busting waves of illegal immigrants, and the rest of it would be fired up this summer.

Now, in a whiplash-inducing reversal, it’s going to take three years to get it working. You could blame Boeing, you could blame Chertoff, or you could blame the Politics of Shamnesty:

A nongovernment source familiar with the project said that the Bush administration’s push to speed the project during last year’s immigration debate led Boeing to deploy equipment without enough testing or consultation.

More on its hasty deployment to satisfy conservatives who DIDN’T WANT IT…at least not on its own, which I think we made clear, didn’t we?

It estimated in 2006 that it would spend $7.6 billion through 2011 to secure the entire 2,000-mile southern border, an ambition that was meant to win support from conservatives for a new law creating a guest-worker program and a path to legalization for 12 million illegal immigrants.

Sounds like conservatives were being sold a pig in a poke here–had we signed on for shamnesty like good little soldiers, we’d have gotten a slapdash unreliable virtual fence to pacify us. Well, how about the real fence, then? How’s that coming along? It’s delayed too, and no one’s in a hurry to finish it:

The president’s 2009 budget does not propose funds to add fencing beyond the 700 or so miles meant to be completed this year.

Exit question: Was it worth it? Would we have been better off with amnesty and with the jerry-rigged Skynet fence, than we are with no amnesty, but no hurry on the real fence? I tend to think not; local and state-level enforcement and attrition are taking their toll, and the very act of voting down shamnesty has caused a wave of self-deportation. For many illegal immigrants the denial of the possibility of amnesty was itself an incentive to leave.

It’ll come up again, of course, under the new Congress and under whichever wonderful Presidential candidate gets in, so start contributing now to pro-border security Congressional candidates and make it clear to them where your priorities lie.


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Once McShamnesty passes, this is all moot. It is a monument to how impotent and untrustworthy our government is.

Valiant on February 28, 2008 at 8:47 AM

*Bangs head against desk*

*And again*

*And again*

Jockolantern on February 28, 2008 at 8:49 AM

Pelosi and Reid are more interested in passing idiotic bills tied to their crazy Global Warming beliefs than they are about securing the borders. I wish to God there was some way these fools could be recalled from office. They are no longer serving our needs, just their own goofy politic agendas. Like what else is new? I know!

pilamaye on February 28, 2008 at 8:53 AM

. I wish to God there was some way these fools could be recalled from office.

Wouldn’t be anyhow. Majority of your fellow Americans voted for them.

They are no longer serving our needs,

never did. serving the needs of socialism, and the accumulation of power off the backs of the ignorant, uneducated, and stupid.

JiangxiDad on February 28, 2008 at 8:55 AM

So it becomes obvious that us conservative saw right through the BS after all. Big surprise there eh?

doriangrey on February 28, 2008 at 8:56 AM

$7.6 billion……that’s nearly $700 a FOOT. Fence contractors everywhere will be thrilled.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 8:56 AM

Would we have been better off with amnesty and with the jerry-rigged Skynet fence, than we are with no amnesty, but no hurry on the real fence?

Absolutely not. Can you believe that we have this problem? Not the immigration part, the complete ineptness of Congress part? This is the darkest American chapter of the last thirty years, entitled, “The Dark Age: Congress Threatens Security – For No Real Reason.”

Take the pork away from Byrd, already, and give me a fence!

emailnuevo on February 28, 2008 at 8:58 AM

Does it really matter anymore? It’s obvious the US is determined to make the US, Mexico, and Canada one big super country. It’s no longer a conspiracy! It’s only a matter of time before this website is changed from Hot Air to aire caliente and allahpundit is wearing a sombrero and eating Mesxico food.

noelgallagher2k on February 28, 2008 at 8:59 AM

Good God, is it that hard to build a real friggin’ fence?! This severely diminishes Bush’s legacy. We were used and abused.

RW Wacko on February 28, 2008 at 9:00 AM

Wow, I feel like I just got kicked in the jimmy. What is it going to take to have our government for the people, by the people do what we are asking them to do? Enforce the law and live up to their obligations.
This is going to be a long day.

Geronimo on February 28, 2008 at 9:00 AM

It’s obvious the US is determined to make the US, Mexico, and Canada one big super country.

One looking and sounding a lot like Mexico.

JiangxiDad on February 28, 2008 at 9:01 AM

t’s only a matter of time before this website is changed from Hot Air to aire caliente and allahpundit is wearing a sombrero and eating Mesxico food.

noelgallagher2k on February 28, 2008 at 8:59 AM

!!! Que chistoso, as my party’s probable nominee would say!

emailnuevo on February 28, 2008 at 9:01 AM

so start contributing now to pro-border security Congressional candidates and make it clear to them where your priorities lie

Sorry SEE-Dubya,

Hotair staff did a great job of marginalizing candidates like Tancredo who live by the credo you propose. Spread this advice amongst your staff first. We’re already way ahead of you.

Respectfully,
Buck

bucktowndusty on February 28, 2008 at 9:07 AM

Surprise, surprise…

TOPV on February 28, 2008 at 9:10 AM

bucktowndusty on February 28, 2008 at 9:07 AM

Yup. A lot of “shooting self in the foot” went on, and now, the Reps have nothing but a bunch of…well… HotAir

TOPV on February 28, 2008 at 9:11 AM

McCain-Tancredo anyone?

Yeah, I know… when pigs fly…

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on February 28, 2008 at 9:19 AM

1. Get a massive government contract to build a virtual fence.
2. Put up an old radio antenna near the border.
3. ???
4. Profit!

Ars Moriendi on February 28, 2008 at 9:22 AM

Once McShamnesty passes, this is all moot. It is a monument to how impotent and untrustworthy our government is.

Valiant on February 28, 2008 at 8:47 AM

Why do you think they are stalling.

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 9:24 AM

How’s that tamper proof ID thang comin? Let me guess, delays with that too?

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 9:24 AM

$7.6 billion……that’s nearly $700 a FOOT. Fence contractors everywhere will be thrilled.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 8:56 AM

shaking head….but Gordan England and his crew at the Pentagon want to stop building F-22s because they are too expensive.

How much is 8 ft tall chain-link and concertina wire again? Hey, go for triple rows of the stuff. I’d guess about $7 a foot?

Oh yeah, putting our government in charge of “health care” will be a real money saver.

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 9:26 AM

Your Federal Gov’t: Bang head here and expect different results.

Please, just build a damn fence across both continential borders and then one across the Alaska borders with Canada for our safety.

HotAirJosef on February 28, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Thank God for our founders…..states have the power to enforce some immigration issues, and lots of them are starting to do just that. Smart fellows those founding fathers.

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 9:28 AM

The war is costing us $9,000,000,000.00 a month.

I’m just saying. Now that some manner of calm in Iraq, let’s give it to the Iraqis, come home and build the fence.

I’m not a Pauler, but the price tag for the war is quite litterally, ASTRONOMIC!

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 9:28 AM

Anybody with a little experience with software would have known this. Heck I would have consulted for half what they spent, never spent a dime and got the same result.

So where’s the fence???

tarpon on February 28, 2008 at 9:28 AM

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 9:26 AM

Good construction, industrial wire, double razor at the top, sorta like every max-security prison fence….about $45
That would drop the cost from $7.6 Bil to $500 Mil.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 9:31 AM

Once Lindsey Grahmnesty becomes the DHS Secretary under President McShamnesty, all us little people will have to just “shut up” and accept the fact that our lettuce is going to be picked by Jose, Ahmed, and Hung Su. Those that lose these jobs and have to find other work will be forever more be known as “bigots” if they are black or “racists” if they are white.

New world order? Are we there yet?

Shawn92101 on February 28, 2008 at 9:34 AM

I’m obvioiusly not a ruthless border dude like many of my fellow Hotair readers here. However, the response by the Bush administration that it will be ANOTHER THREE YEARS before they can correct the problem is probably the biggest lie I’ve ever seen in my life. With the economy slowing and the need for cheap labor at an all time low, the situation on the ground is primed for the virtual fence. I nor any American should buy this explaination.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 9:35 AM

WRITE-IN, DRAFT, WHATEVER, HOWEVER T-A-N-C-R-E-D-O !

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 9:38 AM

Once Lindsey Grahmnesty becomes the Vice PresidentDHS Secretary under President McCainShamnesty, then we’ll finally get comprehensive immigration reform. We had a chance to sign it into law, before conservatives went postal.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 9:41 AM

Another argument is the ‘hole’ scenario.

1. They’ll dig under.

2. Environmental issues

Answer…
1. In some areas. In most good luck. The desert SW would require hard rock mining. Also what is easier. Trying to control a 2100 mile hole, or 100 6ft wide holes?

2. Gaps in the fence to allow our critter buddies to reproduce on whatever side of the border they want. Again….easier to control several small gaps then a 2100 mile one.

Typical government. Over engineered and debated. We don’t need a Mercedes, we need a Ford. Then this kinda story….yeah yeah yeah we are working on it. It’s hard don’t cha-know.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Indeed. We had to rent a jackhammer to plant a big tree. My Mom said there was Caliche (spell) like that all over the border regions.

1. In some areas. In most good luck. The desert SW would require hard rock mining. Also what is easier. Trying to control a 2100 mile hole, or 100 6ft wide holes?

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM

Also let’s concede the argument (just for fun) that they are doing jobs Americans won’t do. That is a business opportunity and a job maker for us. Not just in building the fence, but the employment of patrolling it and maintaining it. Add to that agencies (start putting together your business plan for your banker) that match immigrant workers with employers, with the addition business opportunity of aquiring visas for those wishing to cross. They could pay a coyote $1000 bucks to cross (and be subject to arrest), or pay US $100 bucks and get a guaranteed job.

As for the ID problem. If every single bank in America can give you a one-of-a-kind ATM card then why can’t the same unique ID be supplied to every immigrant?

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Is the GOP hoping for another attack before the election?

tgillian on February 28, 2008 at 10:24 AM

BIG ROLLS OF RAZORWIRE.

Two parallel rows, fifty feet apart, and thirty feet in diameter.

Patrolled by Hummvies down the middle.

Savings: $6.6 billion.

profitsbeard on February 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Is the GOP hoping for another attack before the election?

tgillian on February 28, 2008 at 10:24 AM

It would help the repubs. This is what drives my nuts about Bush and co. they tell us we are at war, that we are under threat of terrorism etc yet at the same time they leave the border wide open. this tells me one of two things. either they are allowing politics to interfer with our security or that they really believe there is no threat and are just using the terroism angle to win elections. this would also make the war in the middle east unneeded.

IMO I think the threat is there and Bush is playing politics with our security. Either way the inability of securing our borders is causing more problems then helping. Alot of the subprime mess in the market can be traced to illegal immigration, the problems with healthcare, increased crime, increased gasoline prices, increased food, etc all due to an extra 12 million mouths to feed, clothe,shelter, and transport.

unseen on February 28, 2008 at 10:43 AM

profitsbeard on February 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Don’t forget the land mines and the watchtowers.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Once Lindsey Grahmnesty becomes the Vice PresidentDHS Secretary under President McCainShamnesty, then we’ll finally get comprehensive immigration reform. We had a chance to sign it into law, before conservatives went postal.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 9:41 AM

Just this morning a trauma center in our city announced that their trauma level 2 was dropped. Why, they can’t keep up with the costs of maintaining such quality service.

Why, they HAVE to treat hundreds of thousands of IAs with little or no reimbursement from the government (YOUR tax $$$).

Coming soon to an ER near you.

That’s why we’re going postal.

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Here

Rigel on February 28, 2008 at 10:50 AM

I can’t wait until they fix our healthcare system!

sleepy-beans on February 28, 2008 at 10:58 AM

$7.6 billion

A high tech money pit that resembles a gate.

Your tax dollars at work, folks.

locomotivebreath1901 on February 28, 2008 at 10:59 AM

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM

There was nothing wrong with the McCain/Kennedy bill in my mind, because of the “Triggers” involved. All of the legalization/worker programs would be enabled until the fence was near or around two thirds complete. A number of other policies were also contingent on benchmarks(I hate that word). All the conservatives though, heard only what they wanted to hear, and that was that this large group of people would have a chance to become citizens. That was what was really unacceptable.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 10:59 AM

profitsbeard on February 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Don’t forget the dogs!

TooTall on February 28, 2008 at 11:05 AM

I’d give anything to go back in time and tell our founding fathers that in 2007 the government took in 3 trillion in taxes but can’t build a fence to protect the borders.

They would probably tar and feather me for lying or die of laughter.

FireFly on February 28, 2008 at 11:06 AM

Chosen one, I think that most Americans think that having control of our borders and enforcing the law is not going postal.

Johan Klaus on February 28, 2008 at 11:14 AM

There’s no need to go so ‘hi-tech’ when an old fashioned, physical barrier will do the job just fine.
There was a web site link a while back (can’t remember what it was….sorry) that showed a border patrol video using this virtual fence technology. It showed hundreds of illegals crossing the border being led by serveral coyotes. It was an infrared image taken at night and it worked just like it was supposed to. You could see all of them sneaking across. The border patrol, however couldn’t do anything about it because there were only 4 or 5 BP agents and they knew if they approached them, they would just scatter. So, they litereally just watched them cross.
That’s the problem with an electronic fence, it doesn’t stop them from crossing and it still requires a ‘body’ to apprehend them when they’re seen. A well designed physical barrier is the only way to keep them from getting in.

AZ_Mike on February 28, 2008 at 11:21 AM

Johan Klaus on February 28, 2008 at 11:14 AM

I’ll concede the point, as Obama says. However, rounding up twenty five million people won’t and can’t happen. Not signing on the McCain/Kennedy will end the end turn out to be a big mistake. Ironically, President McCain will be the one who will keep the dems from having their collective way with an open borders policy.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 11:23 AM

BIG ROLLS OF RAZORWIRE.

Two parallel rows, fifty feet apart, and thirty feet in diameter.

Patrolled by Hummvies down the middle.

Savings: $6.6 billion.

profitsbeard on February 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM

You’d be hired, but the Humvees are too expensive. Just put in lots of javelina and sidewinders, and the savings are 7.0 billion.

Ah, F it. You’re hired.

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 11:31 AM

O

nce Lindsey Grahmnesty becomes the Vice PresidentDHS Secretary

Please, are you trying to get people who could vote for McCain wearing a noseplug to run screaming back to the suicide voter camp?

I’m gonna vote McCain, but that … suggestion you keep making is even sickening for me.

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 11:32 AM

…”Chertoff said that Boeing’s Sauron-tech is already partially online and busting waves of illegal immigrants, and the rest of it would be fired up this summer.”
Maybe if the immigration laws were enforced there wouldn’t be “waves”, just trickles.
He needs to watch the movie “Border” and then he will have to eat his own words…which will be a good thing since he’s too skinny.

Christine on February 28, 2008 at 11:36 AM

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 11:32 AM

You’ve said this twice now. How about stating exactly what is wrong with the good senator. Specifics please, don’t throw out “Gang of Fourteen”, “Open Borders”, cause these scare words don’t work anymore.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 11:38 AM

There was nothing wrong with the McCain/Kennedy bill in my mind, because of the “Triggers” involved. All of the legalization/worker programs would be enabled until the fence was near or around two thirds complete. A number of other policies were also contingent on benchmarks(I hate that word). All the conservatives though, heard only what they wanted to hear, and that was that this large group of people would have a chance to become citizens. That was what was really unacceptable.

THE CHOSEN ONE

Well, since we’ve revised the number of “virtual fenceposts” required several times, based on the initial numbers; we’ve cleared a couple of the benchmarks.

I guess we can do amnesty now, the border is controlled and secured. Hooray, the problem is “solved” (for a given value of solved, not the usual definition).

Of course the border is exactly as porous today as it was before we started, and it’ll be 3 years (or more) before we have any security. And there’s some question whether this “virtual fence” can possibly work without expanded manpower numbers (that I haven’t seen any long-term plans to gain and keep). But based on the “benchmarks” had amnesty passed we could have amnesty today; so the border must be secured now, right?

Oddly, this was the problem with the Conservatives and the “benchmarks”, basically that it would take nothing to meet them, and the border wouldn’t actually be secured. Weird, its like the amnesty detractors had seen this before… maybe 20 years ago?

So now we’ve met the first benchmark, and the border is no more secure than it was before we started. But the problem is that Conservatives are “racist and nativist”? Gotcha.

Thanks for that, but you forgot to say that we’re not looking for the best interests of America; that we’re not worried about the economy, and that Americans wouldn’t pick lettuce for $50/hr. Since you’re going to ignore what the benchmarks actually would have required (and the fact that we’ve passed several of them now) and you’re going to drop straight to mind-reading and name calling; why not use all the names that were used during the previous debate (and I use that term lightly).

Actually, can you call it a “debate” when one side simply resorts to name calling and invective?

gekkobear on February 28, 2008 at 11:46 AM

The technology for an efficient virtual fence has existed since my days in Vietnam. This is such major BS. Boeing’s inability( true or not) to provide equipment that works is a canard. The truth is Bushie and his minions have spit in true conservatives faces again….. the technology is there and can be implemented quickly… the will, however is nonexistent. I’m going to go play Jefferson Airplane’s ” Got to Have a Revolution” now!

MNDavenotPC on February 28, 2008 at 11:47 AM

…cause these scare words don’t work anymore.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Of course they do. It’s why you object to them.

But I’m with you, there are tons of good reasons to support McCain along with some reasons not to. But the good far outweighs the bad. It’s not even close. The people who won’t vote for McCain aren’t conservatives. They’re fanatics in search of a Messiah. They want a Republican Obama, someone who will allow them to believe that finally the government is going to do the right things to make their lives work well, instead of doing what is necessary on their own.

The Apologist on February 28, 2008 at 11:57 AM

Wrong. I’m totally for securing the border before we give legal worker status or anything else for that matter. If they don’t secure the border they deserve nothing. I’m in total agreement with most who post here. I don’t want another Berlin wall of Great Wall of China, however it MUST be secured. Make no mistake about it. But, I’ve read through the bill(Mav/Kennedy) and the conditions set are pretty clear. I encourage all Hotair readers to do the same, you’ll end up like me. Suprised that it is pretty clear that no border, no legalization.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 12:06 PM

CHOSEN I can’t stand his demeanor. I know it’s shallow….he became popular because he was a camera hog grandstander while managing the Clinton impeachment in the House, and rode that to election as a US Senator.

I was not a Clinton fan, but the CDS lunatics who pushed, investigated, pushed, and bullied their way through those 8 years remind me very much of the BDS “impeach Bush” brigades.

yucky

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 12:22 PM

It’s obvious the US is determined to make the US, Mexico, and Canada one big super country.

FIFY

cjs1943 on February 28, 2008 at 12:22 PM

But I’m with you, there are tons of good reasons to support McCain along with some reasons not to. But the good far outweighs the bad. It’s not even close. The people who won’t vote for McCain aren’t conservatives. They’re fanatics in search of a Messiah. They want a Republican Obama, someone who will allow them to believe that finally the government is going to do the right things to make their lives work well, instead of doing what is necessary on their own.

The Apologist on February 28, 2008 at 11:57 AM

That’s great stuff.

funky chicken on February 28, 2008 at 12:32 PM

This whole immigration issue is mind-boggling. One of the functions government is actually DESIGNED for, protecting the borders and defending the country, is being conveniently ignored. How hard is it to secure the Mexican border? Really, how hard? Obama wants 210 billion for “job creation” programs, but the government cant build a fence or add more agents, all the while knowing it’s a gaping hole in our national security? I understand the Democrats want the illegals here, because supporting them scores them votes. But come on Republicans…we need to demand that our government do something as basic as get federal agents at the border to enforce the law.

mattyj86 on February 28, 2008 at 12:40 PM

And “experience” is why Chertoff still has a job…

TOPV on February 28, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Wrong. I’m totally for securing the border before we give legal worker status or anything else for that matter. If they don’t secure the border they deserve nothing. I’m in total agreement with most who post here. I don’t want another Berlin wall of Great Wall of China, however it MUST be secured. Make no mistake about it. But, I’ve read through the bill(Mav/Kennedy) and the conditions set are pretty clear. I encourage all Hotair readers to do the same, you’ll end up like me. Suprised that it is pretty clear that no border, no legalization.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 12:06 PM

The root of the problem with this bill is that Americans, with good reason, did not believe that McCain and others would actually do this. In the Credibility Bank, they have overdrawn so many times, it would be laughable – but it isn’t.

That’s why Americans are saying BUILD THE WALL/FENCE FIRST. Then we’ll talk about the rest.

And, as we all see quite clearly, our fears are grounded. They have NO intention of making good on their promise of a fence or wall.

Another reason I do not trust John McCain. (reason #1 is JUAN HERNANDEZ).

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 1:21 PM

That’s why Americans are saying BUILD THE WALL/FENCE FIRST. Then we’ll talk about the rest.

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 1:21 PM

That’s exactly what the bill says! No secure border, nothing else. This is what conservatives kicked and screamed must be the first “trigger”. Then after two thirds is complete we move on to other issues like guest worker or zvisas, so on and so on. Read the damn bill.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 1:25 PM

Pelosi and Reid are more interested in passing idiotic bills tied to their crazy Global Warming beliefs …” – pilamaye

Well it must be working, in fact it must be working TOO good, because now we have global cooling!

Tony737 on February 28, 2008 at 1:30 PM

The president’s 2009 budget does not propose funds to add fencing beyond the 700 or so miles meant to be completed this year.

Well, at least they say they’re going to follow the law and build the 700 miles of fence that was originally required.

jaime on February 28, 2008 at 1:37 PM

The people who won’t vote for McCain aren’t conservatives. They’re fanatics in search of a Messiah. They want a Republican Obama, someone who will allow them to believe that finally the government is going to do the right things to make their lives work well, instead of doing what is necessary on their own.

With all due respect, thats just not fair. I have real problems with McCain in many areas and in those areas he’s to far left. His vision of America is different than mine and if I choose not to vote for him does not mean I’m not a conservative, quiet frankly, to me, it means he’s not the conservative.

As far as wanting government to make my life better, I want alot less of it in my life. I want government to do what their suppose to like protect the borders, defend our country, infrastructure etc…. not amnesty, closing Gitmo, voting against tax cuts….etc

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 1:39 PM

It works, but only against virtual illegal immigrants in our virtual world. Now, in Second World, this thing is the cat’s own ass.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Don’t sweat it Big Orange, THE CHOSEN ONE has been ranting about McCain and how conservative he is since he got here. If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that THE CHOSEN ONE works under McCain’s desk.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Don’t sweat it Big Orange, THE CHOSEN ONE has been ranting about McCain and how conservative he is since he got here. If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that THE CHOSEN ONE works under McCain’s desk.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 1:51 PM

No doubt.

BTW on that virtual fence, wonder if they’ll protect the White House with a virtual fence instead of those guys with guns?

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM

BTW on that virtual fence, wonder if they’ll protect the White House with a virtual fence instead of those guys with guns?

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I think they’re going to install the virtual fence to protect the President against Virtual terrorists. I’m given to understand that this was a virtual homework project for the virtual extra credit.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 2:02 PM

I’d give anything to go back in time and tell our founding fathers that in 2007 the government took in 3 trillion in taxes but can’t build a fence to protect the borders.

They would probably tar and feather me for lying or die of laughter.

FireFly on February 28, 2008 at 11:06 AM

For Pete’s sake we re-routed the Colorado river! We built the Hoover dam before we had much technology. It’s such BS to say we can’t build a fence to hold back humans!

NTWR on February 28, 2008 at 2:03 PM

I’ve never said Mav was a conservative. He’s a moderate with extremely strong foreign affairs credentials. I am a moderate and am glad to shill for the guy. If you guys want to go back to churning your own butter and covered wagons, go right ahead.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 2:07 PM

The people who won’t vote for McCain aren’t conservatives. They’re fanatics in search of a Messiah. They want a Republican Obama, someone who will allow them to believe that finally the government is going to do the right things to make their lives work well, instead of doing what is necessary on their own.

The Apologist on February 28, 2008 at 11:57 AM

That’s right! All you lapdogs – do what the party tells you. You may not decide who to vote for. You must line up behind McCain!

jaime on February 28, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I’ve never said Mav was a conservative. He’s a moderate with extremely strong foreign affairs credentials. I am a moderate and am glad to shill for the guy. If you guys want to go back to churning your own butter and covered wagons, go right ahead.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 2:07 PM

One thing I must apologise for, the quote in my post was from The Apologist, not you. As far as churning butter, I’ll do my own but you will can pay illegals two bucks a day for it.

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 2:14 PM

OK, so as I understand it from CHOSEN, the ability to buy butter and drive a car are both given by the Government. PFUI. The ability to drive a car is due to Free Enterprise. The ability to buy items in stores is again Free Enterprise.

If we were to say as a Nation, that we wanted the Government to produce automobiles instead of Henry Ford, then we’d still be in meetings discussing the way we want the car to look, and what kind of statement we want it to make.

To quote Ronald Reagan. Government in the problem, not the solution. That’s why McCain isn’t Ronald Reagan, he believes that Government is the solution.

I brought a friend who’s in favor of National Health care up short when I told him I’d go along with him. I told he I’d join him if he modeled the National Health care system on one of the Successful Government Programs. After a while he gave up and walked away. There are no successful Government Programs. It took more than thirty years to shut down the Rural Electrification Project after it was done electrifying the rural areas. That means that someone started working at the project, and retired with full benefits, after the job was done.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 2:22 PM

There is never going to be a fence. Not in three years, not in a hundred years. Our Government is corrupt beyond words and always will be. We elect politicians who lie through their teeth to get enough votes for a trip back to the Washington feeding trough and give us the finger on their way there.

Every candidate from this election cycle who voiced a closed border stance has been eliminated by the media and big money. Amnesty for 20 million is on the way and there’s not a thing anyone can do to stop it.

I live in California where the biggest lobby in our State Capitol is that of the Mexican Government. The State has gone bankrupt trying to provide food, clothing, medical care, education and incarceration for 5 million people that are here illegally. Los Angeles (second biggest city in America) has become an impoverished, gang controlled, third world dump in just 40 years. Now they have reached sufficient numbers to affect the outcome of a Presidential election and all of us, myself included, have sat on our asses and watched it all happen.

repvoter on February 28, 2008 at 2:37 PM

Meanwhile, in San Diego, two illegal aliens are going to trial for raping then stabing a woman more than 70 times…….

How many more victims, people, until we take the politicians and bureaucrats who are dragging their feet and kicking and screaming against securing this country, and hold them accountable for the treason they are propagating? How many more victims?

Seven Percent Solution on February 28, 2008 at 2:43 PM

Don’t sweat it Big Orange, THE CHOSEN ONE has been ranting about McCain and how conservative he is since he got here. If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that THE CHOSEN ONE works under McCain’s desk.

Snake307 on February 28, 2008 at 1:51 PM

THE CHOSEN ONE is Lindsey Graham. You didn’t know?

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 2:43 PM

FOR THOSE WHO REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION I HAVE THE SOLUTION:

Invade Mexico: The gangs are assasinating mayors there, kidnapping americans in raids across the border. You may laugh now, but the Mexican government can’t do anything to stop even the most obvious treachory.

Invade, are you crazy: Completely sane. Mexico has more natural resources per person than any country in the world for the exception of New Zealand. There power structure is simiilar to ours in late nineteenth century of the “Gilded Age” here in America. At that time nine to ten guys had 90% of the world’s wealth. I’m talking of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and of course the kingpin J.P. Morgan. We had our trustbuster Roosevelt take office because of the assasination of McKinley and he f’d it up for those pigs. They wanted him as vp, cause he’d be out of the government and out of their way. Mexico has had ample time for their own Roosevelt to step up and it hasn’t happened. INVADE MEXICO AND YOUR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

you are all welcome.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Sauron-tech

Like wow.

- The Cat

MirCat on February 28, 2008 at 2:53 PM

The president’s 2009 budget does not propose funds to add fencing beyond the 700 or so miles meant to be completed this year.

That 2 billion they spent buying Gucci handbags for the Katrina victims sure would come in handy right about now.

repvoter on February 28, 2008 at 3:01 PM

Invade Mexico: – THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Why not? They have been invading the United States for the past thirty years, changing the demographics, infesting the bureaucracies, changing and cancelling out votes by citizens, destroying our school system, teaching revisionist history, closing down hospitals, clogging our social net programs, demanding thier rights, calling us racists, lobbying in Washington effecting legislation, opening Mexican consulants in every city and town across the nation, interfering with our legal system, testified against Border Patrol Agents for doing their jobs, murdering/raping/killing US Citizens at will, and sending Billions of US Dollars back to beloved Mexico.

And we can’t even build a “virtual” fence.

Seven Percent Solution on February 28, 2008 at 3:04 PM

So explain to me why the ‘we can’t do it’ crowd thinks a new law will be enforced any better then the old law?

Right now we have laws that lay out the ‘rules’. If someone follows the rules they get in. If someone doesn’t follow the rules they aren’t supposed to get in. So the answer is let’s change the rules? The rules worked for getting my wife into the country. It took a few bucks, and a lot of waiting, and a lot of cussing, but she got in, paid her dues, hung up the Stars and Stripes, and can even whistle ‘Dixie’ when no one is looking.

If they change the rules can we get a refund?

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM

Seven Percent Solution on February 28, 2008 at 3:04 PM

Thank you. again. Work smarter, not harder people. Why build big bad wall, that a) Mexican drug cartels will blow up anyway, or b)we’ll blow up on our way to Mexico city?

It’s time that the Mexican government feed their f’kn people. The problem, even if they wanted to, extortion and intimidation is the rule of law there now. Invade, and let’s leave this rediculous idea of building a 2000 mile fence that will take a twelve dollar shovel or fourty dollar ladder to beat it.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM

a twelve dollar shovel or fourty dollar ladder to beat it.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Love the physics here. Where do you buy a ladder that will support 3 million people? A 2100 mile hole might work.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 3:19 PM

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Also, you argue that the McCain/Kennedy bill required securing the border first. So how is your ‘secure border’ not what you call a Berlin Wall, but ours is?

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 3:35 PM

THE CHOSEN ONE is Lindsey Graham. You didn’t know?

stenwin77 on February 28, 2008 at 2:43 PM

LOL!!!!

Goober is at HotAir!!

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 4:11 PM

I’m all for securing the border by:

a) Technology i.e. Sensors, Cameras, etc.
b) Using trained Military instead of Border guard
c) Air power: i.e. drones, helicopter, gliders
d) Mandatory felony sentancing for those here who assist.

I just do not want a gdamn wall. It’s ugly, hurts wildlife, and violates the rights of landowners, and is a HUGE waste of money. again. How do you beat a trillion dollar fence? With a twelve dollar shovel and a fourty dollar ladder. Get it?

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 4:15 PM

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 4:15 PM

HUGE waste of money?….Like 7.6 billion? Or like the 100 million already spent on 28 miles of a vitual fence that does not work? That is $678 PER FOOT of virtual nothing! Nothing to show for it! $100 million to say ‘we tried’?

Again….your secure border is supposed to keep people OUT correct? Our secure border is supposed to keep people out.

As far as your shovel/ladder goes, you are saying that ladders and shovels are the equivalent of 2100 miles of open borders. Hogwash.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 4:20 PM

As far as ‘ugly’ goes…..let me know when you get that Feng Shui virtual fence up.

Limerick on February 28, 2008 at 4:29 PM

I just do not want a gdamn wall. …violates the rights of landowners

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Like when the government tears down crack houses, or condemns your property for a freeway, etc?

jaime on February 28, 2008 at 4:38 PM

Invade Mexico.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM

How much do we spend a year on repairing the tanks size holes blown in the fence. The cartels are already kidnapping people, assasinating police and mayors, and even exchanging bazooka rounds with rival drug and human smugglers. If they have bazookas, they have, explosives, they’ve bought Submarines before, airplanes. Look, kill the problem at the source in Mexico City. again and again, Work smarter people, not harder. Invade Mexico please. They have been invading us.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 5:12 PM

The people who won’t vote for McCain aren’t conservatives. They’re fanatics in search of a Messiah. They want a Republican Obama, someone who will allow them to believe that finally the government is going to do the right things to make their lives work well, instead of doing what is necessary on their own.

The Apologist

Right, like limiting free speech. That’s something we need the Government to do for us, so McCain is in the right.

And a 50 cent tax on each gallon of gas to cure Global Warming. Another great plan by McCain; and something the Government needs to do. I can’t possibly donate money to causes I decide are valuable, we have to have the Government confiscate that money.

And Immigration? Hell, only 2/3rds of the people I know would pick lettuce for $50/hr (the other 1/3rd are handicapped, or retired). So there are jobs that a minority of Americans won’t do at any price.

I could continue showing that McCain is the one expanding the scope of the Federal Government… but why bother?

The response be ignoring any of the points above, while calling me names and telling me to “get in line”… that seems the current goal to get more conservative votes for McCain. I have to say, calling me names and insulting me isn’t persuading me that I like McCain or his supporters more than I used to… oddly it doesn’t work better now than it did when he was trying to pass amnesty.

Maybe it’ll work closer to the election. Keep calling us names, slandering us, and telling us what to do. Its bound to pay off eventually.

gekkobear on February 28, 2008 at 5:46 PM

INVADE MEXICO AND YOUR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.

you are all welcome.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM

No way. If anything we should ANNEX Mexico. No need to have a war. Then again, if we were to hold the resources Mexico has, no doubt we’d render them futile by regulating the heck out of ‘em. Then we’d end up with China’s oil platforms just off the coast, sucking up our oil, AGAIN.

NTWR on February 28, 2008 at 5:48 PM

It would be easier than Grenada. They’d probably try to dig up Santa Ana to lead the fight.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 28, 2008 at 6:51 PM

LOL!!!!

Goober is at HotAir!!

Big Orange on February 28, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Yes he is! And he is telling La Raza that he is going to tell the bigots to shut up!

There is no need for importing cheap third world labor into this country. The guy does not even live near the border and is a plant sent here to waste your keystrokes in “debate” where the same old tired points are made over and over again, like Bush’s relentless “Comprehensive Immigration Reform.”

Even if Juanita is elected, THERE WILL BE NO AMNESTY. GWB tried to ram it down our throats for 8 years, and the enemy will not prevail.

The American people have spoken. They will speak up again the next time, and tell the treason lobby zealots like the idiotic CHOSEN ONE to shut up. Repeat after me: Juanita will not get amnesty through congress.

It’s helpful to just ignore the extremists on this site.

petit bourgeois on February 28, 2008 at 9:18 PM

How does Mexico support its’ southern border?

poodlemom on February 29, 2008 at 1:16 AM