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Bad sample doesn’t slow McCain in LAT poll

posted at 10:35 am on February 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Los Angeles Times has conducted a national poll for the presidency, and the results show John McCain leading both Democratic presidential contenders despite all of the attention on their primaries. Experience and wartime judgment carry McCain to leads over both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, although within the margin of error for the latter:

As he emerges from a sometimes- bitter primary campaign, presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain poses a stiff challenge to either of his potential Democratic opponents in the general election, a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found.The findings underscore the difficulties ahead for Democrats as they hope to retake the White House during a time of war, with voters giving McCain far higher marks when it comes to experience, fighting terrorism and dealing with the situation in Iraq.

Both Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton have made ending America’s involvement in the war a centerpiece of their campaigns. And even though a clear majority of those polled said the war was not worth waging, about half of registered voters said McCain — a Vietnam vet who has supported the Bush administration’s military strategy — was better able to deal with Iraq.

In head-to-head contests, the poll found, McCain leads Clinton by 6 percentage points (46% to 40%) and Obama by 2 points (44% to 42%). Neither lead is commanding given that the survey, conducted Feb. 21-25, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

As with any poll, the reliability depends on the sample. The CBS/NY Times poll deliberately skewed their sample towards the Democrats in order to find that Obama led McCain by twelve points. In this case, the sample also has problems. It uses 1246 registered voters, not as reliable for predictive models as likely voters, which usually puts Republicans at a disadvantage. It also only includes 290 Republican primary voters against 436 Democratic primary voters, a definite advantage for Democrats.

And yet, the results show McCain ahead of both Obama and Hillary, and not just on the war and foreign policy. He leads Obama on the economy by eight points, 42%-34%. He also beats Obama on illegal immigration. (Clinton edges McCain on both issues.) And on leadership, McCain beats both Hillary and Obama, with the survey showing him as the “strongest leader” for the country.

These results come from a sample and survey methodology that should have helped the Democrats. Imagine what a clean and balanced sample of likely voters will find.


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I can’t tell if he’s half in the bag or if it’s just how he is. Buddy Holly was on tv last night and man, did he look young.

Geronimo on February 27, 2008 at 9:18 AM

Dude is crazy.

Spirit of 1776 on February 27, 2008 at 9:18 AM

Just be thankful he didn’t try to suck on her neck like he did to Affleck’s piece.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 9:19 AM

Just be thankful he didn’t try to suck on her neck like he did to Affleck’s piece.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 9:19 AM

Busey’s not one to talk about “being an example”. The irony of HIM lecturing the likes of Lindsey, Britney, and Paris is just too rich. What a loser.

Redhead Infidel on February 27, 2008 at 9:20 AM

Captain Ed tried to suck Hillary’s neck? LOL there’s a little something crazy in the comments here.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Why, with such disappointing results, I’m shocked the LAT even released them!

amkun on February 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Phew. Glad you said that. Read the thread three times before your post appeared. I was thinking I was losing it.

Hackers?

petefrt on February 27, 2008 at 10:50 AM

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM

I think this is one of those, “Houston, we have a problem” moments.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 10:52 AM

LOL Well, you know McCain’s middle name is Sidney, right? That’s a Jooooo name, and the Jooos rule the internet, and I’ll bet the Bilderburgers are, er,

Sorry, better go back to DU LOL

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 10:54 AM

You know it is a bad when you hear the nominee from your party is leading in a poll and you are not at all excited by the news.

EJDolbow on February 27, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Imagine what a clean and balanced sample of likely voters will find.

I’m finding fair news coverage harder and harder to imagine.

snaggletoothie on February 27, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Imagine what a clean and balanced sample of likely voters will find.

Nothing relevant.

1. As we know now, polls done a day before can be totally wrong about an election held the following day.

2. The campaign hasn’t even started. McCain leads on economy? What does the general public know about his specific views on economy? McCain spent a lot of time in the Senate acquiring an extraorbitant amount of baggage (in the form of various recorded votes), as any Senator would have. When the Democrats start seriously digging into his past and come up with stuff we wouldn’t even think exists, this is where polls will become somewhat meaningful.

freevillage on February 27, 2008 at 11:01 AM

I’m excited. My husband will be in the sandbox for 5 months past the inauguration in 2009. He’ll be safer over there with “mean old man” McCain at the helm.

We need our enemies to think the boss is a fighter with a mean streak. That ain’t hopeychange.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM

freevillage, all you need to know is that McCain isn’t for the “Global Poverty Act” that Obama created, and isn’t for the “Patriotic Company Act” that Obama co-sponsored.

McCain also proposed a sorta flat tax thing that the WSJ editorial board really liked.

Hey, I’m a biochemist not an accountant, but that’s enough for me.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

A new CBS News/New York Times poll finds Barack Obama with a 16-point lead over rival Hillary Clinton among Democratic primary voters nationwide.

When your in your a guest when your out your a pest.
Whats the worst that could happen? Being treated like a Republican.

Speakup on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

Bryan has been replaced. Welcome, Ed.

kflynn on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

freevillage on February 27, 2008 at 11:01 AM

You can’t stop the Straight Talk Express, it’s about to become a runaway train. So, I guess we should assume if the sampling were correct that Maverick would actually be the one with or near a double digit lead. Thanks NYT’s now even your competitors for Liberal drool are contradicting your polls. Keep on top of the Capt’n Ed!

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM

Top four comments are actually about Gary Busey, lost from this mornings hack attack.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM

kflynn on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

I thought he took a job with Laura Ingrahm’s dry show? No?

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 11:12 AM

freevillage, all you need to know is that McCain isn’t for the “Global Poverty Act” that Obama created, and isn’t for the “Patriotic Company Act” that Obama co-sponsored.

McCain also proposed a sorta flat tax thing that the WSJ editorial board really liked.

Hey, I’m a biochemist not an accountant, but that’s enough for me.

That may very well be what everybody needs to know. What I am saying is that a) people don’t know it, and b) this isn’t what the campaign is going to be about.

freevillage on February 27, 2008 at 11:13 AM

This is all too surreal for only two cups of coffee. I think I’ll get some work done and come back when things are fixed.
(Plus, this made my brain spin. Is it just me?)

Bryan has been replaced. Welcome, Ed.

kflynn on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

shibumiglass on February 27, 2008 at 11:15 AM

I’m excited. My husband will be in the sandbox for 5 months past the inauguration in 2009. He’ll be safer over there with “mean old man” McCain at the helm.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM

That’s the good part. The bad part is you’ll probably be less safe over here,…MS-13 and all that, ya know.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 11:20 AM

a capella, yeah, because Obama’s gonna roll those gangsters, foreign and domestic, up.

puh-leeze

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM

Bryan has been replaced. Welcome, Ed.

kflynn on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

shibumiglass on February 27, 2008 at 11:15 AM

Awww, rats! I was thinking Capt. Ed was an addition, not a replacement. But I see Bryan’s not on the ABOUT page, so I’m thinking he’s been replaced.

Anyway, best wishes for every success, Bryan. Thanks for all the insights. I’ll miss reading you here.

And once again, welcome, Capt. Ed. It’s great to have you here.

petefrt on February 27, 2008 at 11:29 AM

a capella, yeah, because Obama’s gonna roll those gangsters, foreign and domestic, up.

puh-leeze

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM

I wasn’t talking about Obama and you weren’t either. You can’t just ignore something because it makes you uncomfortable, and trying to disguise it with a “Well, Obama’s worse” chant won’t make it go away. You can’t deny McCain’s immigration policy makes us less safe, or if you can, I’d like to hear it. Remember, I didn’t bring it up,..you did.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 11:36 AM

a capella, here’s my original comment.

I

’m excited. My husband will be in the sandbox for 5 months past the inauguration in 2009. He’ll be safer over there with “mean old man” McCain at the helm.

We need our enemies to think the boss is a fighter with a mean streak. That ain’t hopeychange.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM

Sorry if it’s too difficult. “hopeychange” = Obama. And I was only discussing who would be a better choice for my husband’s CIC. I thought it was pretty short and clear. Perhaps not.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:40 AM

I mean, it’s gonna be McCain or Obama.

One or the other. period.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM

So, how do you feel about the impact on national security that McCain’s attitude on immigration policy creates? Surely you have an opinion on it, other than that Obama is worse. Second question: Do you suspect that McCain may be pandering to voters who look favorably on illegal immigration? IOW, creating more of a homeland risk for us in order to be elected?

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Personally, I don’t really trust surveys that talk about how many Democrats and how many Republicans were included. For example, McCain captures more Democratic voters from Obama than Obama captures Republican voters from McCain. That’s dandy, but you have to keep in mind that various polls show that Americans identify themselves as Democrats rather than Republicans by about 45%/35%. I suspect a lot of those “Democrats” are simply anti-war and/or tired of politics as usual – Then they go for Maverick against an archliberal.

PurpleWombats on February 27, 2008 at 11:58 AM

So, how do you feel about the impact on national security that McCain’s attitude on immigration policy creates?

I’ve been hearing this for some time, but so far, there has been not a shred of evidence to support it.

Bother me with immigration when the war’s over. Priorities are priorities. Unless, of course, you wouldn’t mind another fall of Saigon or bloodbath.

rightwingprof on February 27, 2008 at 12:02 PM

When your in your a guest when your out your a pest.
Whats the worst that could happen? Being treated like a Republican.

Speakup on February 27, 2008 at 11:05 AM

If ever there was a reason to learn the difference between your and you’re…

Typhoon on February 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM

This is getting closer to what I’d actually expect. Assuming Obama is the Democrat, once the campaigns get going for real, the messianic buzz tires out, and the full extent of Obama’s leftism starts to get exposure, the potential for McCain to strip moderate Democrat votes is enormous. This is one of many reasons I expect to see him go centrist with his VP nominee.

Blacklake on February 27, 2008 at 12:09 PM

So, how do you feel about the impact on national security that McCain’s attitude on immigration policy creates? Surely you have an opinion on it, other than that Obama is worse…
a capella on February 27, 2008 at 11:53 AM

In the context of this election, isn’t that the only opinion that matters?

Blacklake on February 27, 2008 at 12:12 PM

I’ve been hearing this for some time, but so far, there has been not a shred of evidence to support it.

Bother me with immigration when the war’s over. Priorities are priorities. Unless, of course, you wouldn’t mind another fall of Saigon or bloodbath.

rightwingprof on February 27, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Um the pilots that flew into the WTC and Pentagon were here illegally.

’nuff said.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 12:13 PM

If ever there was a reason to learn the difference between your and you’re…

Typhoon on February 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM

Are you a genius in the Spanish language too? Learn it, love it. Soon, you shall need it, my friend.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Worse is worse.

John Bolton

Would I prefer a President Thompson or Giuliani to a President McCain? Sure.

But I’m only going to have the option of choosing between a President McCain or a President Obama.

I choose President McCain.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM

In the context of this election, isn’t that the only opinion that matters?

Blacklake on February 27, 2008 at 12:12 PM

Not really. We know what Obama says he would do. We also know what McCain tried to do, and the identity of his fellow supporters in Congress, plus his contempt for those in opposition. It seems a reasonable measuring stick. For rightwing prof above who tells me to wait till the war is over,..isn’t that like a hundred years?

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 12:53 PM

For rightwing prof above who tells me to wait till the war is over,..isn’t that like a hundred years?

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 12:53 PM

I heard today that some of our brave men and women are on their FOURTH TOUR OF DUTY in Iraq and that re-enlistment bonuses are up to $40,000 !!!

That’s horrible. We are asking an awful high sacrifice from these people.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 1:08 PM

According to RCP’s average of 7 recent polls Obama is 3.7% ahead of McCain in a general election match up.

McCain is 1.9% ahead of Hillary, but then she has only a marginally better chance than I do of getting the dim nom.

MB4 on February 27, 2008 at 1:11 PM

If ever there was a reason to learn the difference between your and you’re…

Typhoon on February 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM

When yer right, yer right.

Speakup on February 27, 2008 at 1:12 PM

That’s horrible. We are asking an awful high sacrifice from these people.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Shared sacrifice.

Gone with the wind.

MB4 on February 27, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Bother me with immigration when the war’s over.

rightwingprof on February 27, 2008 at 12:02 PM

lol.

When the war is over in a hundred years, what used to be the United States of America will be un Espanol hablando unica nacion.

MB4 on February 27, 2008 at 1:19 PM

Well, that’s encouraging. Here’s hoping McCain can close the deal.

Bill Roper on February 27, 2008 at 1:20 PM

Hey, the best way to thank the troops for their sacrifices is to hire Obama as their Commander in Chief. Yessirree, that makes perfect sense….

in bizarro world.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 1:24 PM

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 1:24 PM

You have not yet told us whether you think McCain’s immigration policies would be good or bad for national security. I don’t believe John Bolton mentioned it either.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 1:36 PM

MB4 on February 27, 2008 at 1:11 PM

According to RCP’s average of 7 recent polls Obama is 3.7% ahead of McCain in a general election match up.

Yeah, and McCain would have a lead nationally if the AP and NYT/CBS polls that had him double digits down werent’ posted. They deliberately ran those polls to negate what he had just gained because of their smear. Their polls nullify the Rasmeussen and USA today polls that had him winnnig by four. Don’t you get it. The libs like Mathews, Russert, and Mathews use the AVERAGE almost daily as a source, so the Times and the AP made sure the AVERAGE didn’t move a single bit by inserting their rediculous polls. Wake and don’t be scared of the fuzzy math. The AVERAGE being manipulated is in effect as Rush would say the real story here.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 1:44 PM

http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=483

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Hey, the best way to thank the troops for their sacrifices is to hire Obama as their Commander in Chief. Yessirree, that makes perfect sense….

in bizarro world.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 1:24 PM

We’re in quite a pickle with our choices this election, that’s for sure. Obviously, McCain is better than Obama would be. But why does he keep sticking it to the base and making it harder and harder for us to support him?

I think you were once a Fred Thompson support, as I was. My problem with McCain is I think he’s unelectable. Quote polls till you’re blue in the face… they don’t matter at this point.

I understand how you feel about our brave men and women in the war areas. I just don’t know what to think about the war anymore.. By his own admission, Bush “made mistakes” and pretty much wasted 4 years of our best and brightest dying (and I lost my brother, so it is really hard to overlook a “oops, I was wrong).

So now we’re clearly making progress. That’s a good thing. So at what point does this thing start to wind down? Are we now waiting for their government to “get its act together?”

And how are all of us going to feel when we finally do pull out and Sharia (sp?) Law makes it’s appearance again to scoop up any resemblence of democracy all of our loved ones fought for?

Maybe the only argument for contiuing the war for an extended time is that the terrorists stay over there so we can fight them there, which may be true. But then, why do we leave our borders open for any terrorist with a brain to figure out how easy it is to come in to our country? I’m sure they are already here.

No, I can’t even imagine Obama in the WH. But, I think we may have to face the fact that there is a very good chance he will be.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Learn it, love it. Soon, you shall need it, my friend.

stenwin77 on February 27, 2008 at 12:14 PM

I need it now…I can’t make the tile working on my bathrooms guys understand me!

tlynch001 on February 27, 2008 at 1:52 PM

I’m eagerly awaiting the immigration/citizenship debates between Obama and McCain in the general. Should be entertaining.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 1:53 PM

just. watch. the. video.

funky chicken on February 27, 2008 at 1:57 PM

It uses 1246 registered voters, not as reliable for predictive models as likely voters, which usually puts Republicans at a disadvantage.

This is sort of ambiguously phrased — which sample (registered or likely) puts Republicans as a disadvantage?

Mark Jaquith on February 27, 2008 at 2:44 PM

Wow!
Looks like Obama may have been right after all, regarding our troops having to scrounge weapons and ammo from the Taliban. Coming from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, no less. Isn’t he supposed to be the amateur in all this military stuff? Why did that captain who blew the whistle, contact him and not someone else, I wonder. Curiouser and curioser. I’m glad this came out.

a capella on February 27, 2008 at 3:01 PM

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