religious hate speech against atheists is perfectly acceptable to most

peski on February 27, 2008 at 11:19 AM

In the hate speech department I think atheists get off pretty easy in the grand scheme of things (in the Western world, that is). Anyway, was what highopes dished out [highhopes on February 26, 2008 at 11:37 PM--had to throw that in there for Saltysam] “hate speech,” that he deserved the response you gave? Personally I don’t really care whether or not people believe in God; I’m too busy worrying about where I’m holding. Anyway, I’m still not convinced that highopes wasn’t being ironic. Wouldn’t it be funny if you went off on someone because you missed the point of what they wrote? Save your venom for the ones who really hate us–and are ready to back it up with deeds.

I’m reposting mine:

According to Fadi Hakura, an expert on Turkey from Chatham House in London, Turkey is doing nothing less than recreating Islam – changing it from a religion whose rules must be obeyed, to one designed to serve the needs of people in a modern secular democracy.

He says that to achieve it, the state is fashioning a new Islam.

“This is kind of akin to the Christian Reformation,” he says.

“Not exactly the same, but if you think, it’s changing the theological foundations of [the] religion. ”

Fadi Hakura believes that until now secularist Turkey has been intent on creating a new politics for Islam.

Now, he says, “they are trying to fashion a new Islam.”

You have to remember that Turkey’s formal application to join the European Union—was made on 14 April, 1987. And since then it has been refused by the Europeans, not just for political reasons, but for the fact that Turkey is an Islamic nation. The Europeans are demanding reforms: political and … religious.

Also remember that the European idiots are suffering from their own afflicted wound by opening the door to Muslim invaders, so they do not want to add more to the pain.

You can see now why Turkey is trying to reinvent an Islam suitable for its political and economic ambitions, a more secular Islam, a “new Islam” more suitable for an Atheist Europe.

That should not be good news. It’s normal, regular, expected news for the keen observer.

In fact, Turkey’s reforms -either political or religious- which began in the early 20th century had no influence whatsoever on the Arab-Islamic World. And I don’t expect that this “new Islam” will change the minds of Al-Qaeda or Al Azhar’ scholars (the largest Islamic University in the World located in Cairo, Egypt). It never did and never will.

By the way, the Turks are not Arabs. It says it all.

It could be just what is needed to pull the rug out from under the feet of Wahhabists and their ilk.

MadisonConservative on February 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM

I hope you’re right. It’s hard for me to picture a real change, but it is a bright spot in the clouds.

I assumed that highhopes was being a touch facetious. Call me naive.

smellthecoffee on February 27, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Perhaps, and perhaps my response was “intemperate”, but the point is that religious hate speech against atheists is perfectly acceptable to most, but when the tables are turned the “offensive” and “moderator” bleating won’t be far behind.

Seven Percent Solution on February 27, 2008 at 1:56 AM

I have to agree with the point that you seem to be making.

smellthecoffee on February 27, 2008 at 12:44 AM

There is nothing more offensive to me than people that willfully enter the public arena and call for a censor for offensive speech.

Yes, I agree, it’s offensive. Horribly offensive.

However, when you quote someone you should include their username so we know who owns it.

Then when I read another post by that username again, I can judge for myself how much credibility I want to give it.

No need to play God.

Saltysam on February 27, 2008 at 12:57 AM

I’m not calling for a censor, Saltysam. There is, or used to be a moderator for this blog. Sorry to goof up on your citation protocol; I was assuming you’d read the thread. Here is the citation in case you really needed it.

peski on February 26, 2008 at 11:45 PM

Playing God? Good heavens. No need to get theological here Saltysam. Is the idea of a moderator that foreign to you? One of the reason why I appreciate, have appreciated this blog, is that people exercise restraint, so it doesn’t look like one of those comment threads on youtube, where after the first three intelligible comments it degenerates into pointless name-calling. If this is the new standard of since the reopening of registration, I guess I’ll have to find somewhere else to go.

Anyway, I thought that the comment that prompted Peski’s

peski on February 26, 2008 at 11:45 PM

intemperate response,

Of course, Turkish Muslims will still burn in hell alongside American atheists.

highhopes on February 26, 2008 at 11:37 PM

was meant to be ironic. In trying to imagine the “divine court” that would be judging liberal Turkish Muslim reformers, and American atheists together, I got a mental error message, so I assumed that highhopes was being a touch facetious. Call me naive.

I’m Jewish and I don’t have dog in this fight. I just know offensive when I see it, and that was offensive.

smellthecoffee on February 27, 2008 at 12:44 AM

Interesting. My crude scatological comment is more offensive to you than the idea that someone could be doomed to an eternity in flames for lack of belief in someone else’s god?

Nice moral compass.

Everyone so clever with their wit?

No one remarks our current victories of battle that have not seen the light of day in Iraq, but it is OK to joke about the possible 4th or 5th World War in Kosovo, or does this history of this region baffle only the smartest of us?

I tell you what,….. Google “Start of the WW1″ or “What Started WW1″ and work your way up from there, and in the mean time have this running in the back ground.

Then go back to your school yard politics and “play” soldier and/or politician.

Please feel free to comment…… I feel “Pinky” is with me…

The Hadiths, of course, are the excusology for any cruelty or self-serving power grab that later Islamic leaders wanted to implement.

“But Mohammad said…” has probably killed more people than any other three words in history.

Goodnight Salty, what a great way to hit the hey. See you on the flip side. Out.

Kiss my ass.

Dude, after this new registration, my moderate ass is lookin like Falwell. There are some real, ummm, ummm, different opinions here now. How about me and you bury the hachet, regardless of how weak your positions are?

Your 12:38 A.M. link -above- needs the extra comma that glommed on after the final “.html[,]” deleted when trying to click through to the AsiaTimes article on the “Koran controversy”.

You get an error message otherwise.

“Without them Europe, especially Eastern europe will be at the mercy of PUTIN AND THE RUSKIES.”

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 1:33 AM

Some things never change.

Thanks, I’m pretty proud of that one, but hey, no credit for THE CHOSEN ONE on February 27, 2008 at 12:57 AM? I don’t really feel that way, but I decided to speak up on behalf on the Hotair hardliners.

You can take your god who burns people in hell for not believing in his invisible blood sacrifice demanding ass and shove it up your own.

peski on February 26, 2008 at 11:45 PM

The Jewish Bible does not say that God demands blood sacrifice. It simply notices that men seem insistent on it, and so gives a bunch of stringent requirements about how it should be done. In several places it says God does not want it. For example, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%201:11&version=31, it comes right out and says “I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.”

Sinners burn in hell for their sins, not for failing to believe. As for whether an eternity in hell is just punishment, I will simply point out that we know from general relativity that what appears to take forever to one observer can be very fast to another. For example, objects falling into a black hole will appear to take an infinitie time to do that even though they are moving at nearly the speed of light towards a smallish object. The light is delayed as it leaves the vicinity of the black hole, and so it looks from far away like the object is moving very slowly.

(“Anyone who doesn’t understand the carrot”)