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Rearranging The Icebergs

posted at 5:31 pm on February 25, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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So far, the lack of daylight between the agendas of the two Democratic contenders for the party’s presidential nomination has kept the focus mostly on experience and campaign tactics. USA Today took a look at the actual economic policies of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and especially at the bottom line. They wonder who will pay the bill for the latest Democratic Party giveaway:

In 2009, when the next president takes office, the government is expected to spend $400 billion more than it takes in, adding to a national debt that tops $9 trillion. Yet Clinton and Obama both offer a long list of new spending proposals that suggests a lack of seriousness in confronting the nation’s fiscal condition.

Obama has received more criticism, perhaps deservedly so, because his list is somewhat longer. But Clinton also appears to be overpromising on what she would do and underdelivering on how she would pay for it. …

While it’s hard to come up with a precise price tag given the lack of specifics in many of their proposals, these plans are likely to cost the Treasury well into the hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The National Taxpayers Union, a conservative group that favors lower taxes and smaller government, gives a very rough estimate of $287 billion for Obama and $218 billion for Clinton.

How would the candidates pay for all these new programs without driving the deficit to new heights? Some have specific funding sources; some don’t. The candidates rather vaguely claim that costs would be covered primarily by repealing President Bush’s tax cuts and ending the Iraq war.

This is where the math gets fuzzy.

A rollback of Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans could generate perhaps $75 billion next year. The Iraq war savings are much harder to figure. The war has been costing about $100 billion per year. But a Democratic president, once in office, might decide that national security demands a gradual withdrawal, or a redeployment to Afghanistan. Health care for Iraq war veterans will run into the billions for decades. It’s unlikely that winding down the war will produce a large, quick peace dividend capable of supporting a host of new programs.

The real answer: the taxpayers. Both candidates essentially offer the same discredited statist solutions that now burdens Europe Neither have honestly addressed the costs to taxpayers, nor how it will add to both the deficit spending and the federal intrusion into markets that do better at producing results.

Repealing the Bush tax cuts, both candidates claim, will pay for their fiscal agendas. This assumption is false on two fronts. First, both candidates plan to spend far more than the tax cuts and the war costs, even in static analysis. At best, the income derived from both would cover 75% of Hillary’s plan and 60% of Obama’s.

That doesn’t account for the fact that the so-called war costs also include a lot of normal fixed military costs, and that a withdrawal will actually drive up costs in the short run. Also, the impact of a hefty tax increase — which is the effect of allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire — will be to take capital out of the market, resulting in decreasing revenues, not increasing revenues. Both Hillary and Obama rely on static analyses to hide the true effect of the tax-cut repeal.

That will force both candidates to either increase deficit spending or to hike taxes even further. Both claim they will increase taxes on the wealthy and on corporations, while giving tax breaks to the middle class. That won’t work. The tax increases will have to hit the middle class as well, either directly or indirectly in higher costs associated with heavier burdens on producers — and employers. The gaps are simply too large to be made up by hitting “the rich”, unless one defines “rich” significantly downwards.

Besides, this shouldn’t really take a genius to deduce. Anyone demanding an additional $287 billion a year in spending when we are facing the entitlement debacle from the retirement of the Baby Boomers has to have their head examined. Perhaps one can make an argument for tax increases to cover those costs, but increasing federal spending by hundreds of billions in this situations is akin to looking for an additional iceberg to hit before the Titanic sinks entirely.

Cross-posted at Captain’s Quarters.


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Hey, they can tax cigarettes! Isn’t that what they always say? Face it, no matter who gets elected, we’re all gonna get shafted. Big Time.

jdawg on February 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM

It really is mind boggling when the numbers are laid bare.

Weight of Glory on February 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM

McCain’s camp should take note of this since McCain doesn’t understand how the economy works. Edumacate

Kini on February 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Obama only need Hope for more money, and it will appear. That’s how he rolls.

Hollowpoint on February 25, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Welcome!

infidel2 on February 25, 2008 at 5:38 PM

Obama only need Hope for more money, and it will appear. That’s how he rolls.

Hollowpoint on February 25, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Yeah, but the change he wants will be coming out of our pockets.

trubble on February 25, 2008 at 5:38 PM

You know what, this is what I have been saying to my democratic friends, although not nearly as well as ed lays it out but with the country facing a recession and with social security being how it is with the iraq war….there is just no way we can be spending the money it takes to become a socialist state, this should be obvious and its driving me nuts that no one in the media is talking about it. Obama and hillarys mouth is writing checks this country will not be able to cash

SoCalInfidel on February 25, 2008 at 5:39 PM

yes, Rep Charlie B. Rangel (D-NY) chairman of the House Ways and Means committee already has the BIGGEST TAX INCREASE BILL IN AMERICAN HISTORY all drafted and ready for the next Democrat President to sign into law in January 2009.

jimbo2008 on February 25, 2008 at 5:39 PM

Meanwhile, South Korea elects a president they can be proud of. His promise is to boost the economy through tax cuts and deregulation.
Now there’s some radical thinking.

joewm315 on February 25, 2008 at 5:39 PM

What’s the big deal Ed? Free health care has the word “free” in it BECAUSE IT’S FREE DAMN IT!

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 5:40 PM

If Huck becomes a Senator, how would he vote on this?

a capella on February 25, 2008 at 5:41 PM

Good read Ed. The Dem’s running for president or the DC bunch doesn’t give a flying flit about anything but getting elected and saying whatever they have to do it. All they want is for the ‘rich’ and actual taxpayers to keep paying for their promises.
L

letget on February 25, 2008 at 5:41 PM

David Walker is leaving his post as the nation’s Cassandra, er…. excuse me, Comptroller. This is regrettable, as he has been the only federal official openly saying that the nation is heading towards bankruptcy.

I’ll give kudos to USA today for at least raising this issue, but they are ignoring one other issue looming large – the Army has to be rebuilt- we have expended vast amounts of material and personnel, and that has to be replaced. Right now, we have few infantry units that could be deployed anywhere in a crisis.

As Cap’n Ed noted, we have also added a lot more veterans who needed extended care.

If anything, we should now be calling for greater cutbacks, not new programs.

The GOP could seize the high ground by all current members of Congress committing to forgo pork barrel projects on pain of losing all support from the Republican party in their next re-election.

Something like that could be dramatic enough to highlight Pelosi’s utter failure to deliver anything in this area.

A dramatic gesture of fiscal self-discipline would be rewarded in the general election, and would also throw the other’s side hypocrisy in their face.

olddeadmeat on February 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Kaine and Corzine were on Fox Sunday claiming the cutting and running would pay for it….and those damn CEOs. Wallace (as much as I like him) gave em’ a pass.

Great post. Examining the details of ‘Hope and Change’ is a sure way to start opening some eyes.

Limerick on February 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Glad to see ya jumping right in, Ed! Good post!

LB - the one that isn't LaShawn Barber on February 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Yet Clinton and Obama both offer a long list of new spending proposals that suggests a lack of seriousness in confronting the nation’s fiscal condition.

Well, whadya know? Who woulda thought?

Both of them would be absolutely disastrous for the economy.

CP on February 25, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Cap’n Ed, if you’re gonna come in here and start tossing around facts ‘n figures like this I only have two words for you…

Welcome aboard!

sleepy-beans on February 25, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Why would anyone have to pay for the donk’s healthcare plan ?

Don’t you get it? It’s freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

jukin on February 25, 2008 at 5:45 PM

How about a national lottery to pay for all the new giveaways? Illinois has one that helps pay for schools and education and it seems to work just fine. (sarc)

74impala on February 25, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Both claim they will increase taxes on the wealthy and on corporations

I heard last Friday that the Govt’s idea of a wealthy family is a combined income of about 80k, is that correct?
If so I guess I’m rich.

Geronimo on February 25, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Of course the Department of Mandatory-Volunteerism will also help offset the cost.

Limerick on February 25, 2008 at 5:48 PM

I’m gonna break with my principles and start advocating a government program that will force all Americans to take a government sponsered program on economics, basically coving Econ 101 and 102 in most college cirriculums.

Yes, I can.

VolMagic on February 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM

You guys don’t get it; they don’t care. All they have to do is deliver these programs, in any sort of fashion. Once the programs are in place, forever will they remain (anyone remember the last time one of these “entitlement” programs was ended??). Any funding shortfalls or deficits will simply be blamed on the Bush Administration. They probably figure they have at least 8 years, if not more, of “blame Blush” (tax cuts, the wars, etc.) ammo in their pocket, before the mantra losses credence with their core.

So, onward with lofty promises and socialism, blame the Republicans for anything that goes wrong. They have no worries.

ugh.

Tyrs Fury on February 25, 2008 at 5:51 PM

I want to see someone in the GOP make the strong, and to me obvious point, that corporations don’t really pay income taxes but instead pass them along to consumers and that the best thing for the economy is to abolish corporate taxes. Can you imagine the uproar from the Libs, WTO, EU, and even China that would come from this shot across the bow?

DerKrieger on February 25, 2008 at 5:52 PM

A story like this always reminds me of the anti-nuclear plant protesters in Vienna/Austria. Demonstrating against the opening of a nuclear plant at the Csech Republic border, and one to supply both countries with energy, when asked what their solution is, they responded “we’re very happy with the electricity which comes out of our wall-outlets, currently”.

Entelechy on February 25, 2008 at 5:53 PM

You touched on it a little bit, but the real point to tax hikes is that they decrease tax revenues. The Bush tax cuts have resulted in record tax receipts for the federal government. When is someone going to hammer home this point? The $218 billion deficit is with current levels of tax receipts. What happens when the rich (aka the people who pay all the taxes already, hence the reason they get tax cuts) protect their money offshore and aren’t carrying as big a load of the tax burden they currently have?

BTW Welcome Ed, glad to have you here.

pmoshields on February 25, 2008 at 5:55 PM

Who will pay the bill? Future generations, mostly. They’re promising our kids’ and grandkids’ yet-to-be-earned paychecks (along with ours, of course). I think someone needs to organize a Children’s Crusade–a Million-Child March on Washington to protest the outright theft of the future paychecks of people who are not yet in a position to vote to defend themselves. These kids are going to find it near impossible to buy homes or save for their own retirement because they’ll have to pay such a high percentage of their income to support the generations that came before them. Not to mention the crippling economic depression they’ll have to live through when existing entitlements reach 100% of the federal budget and destroy the economy. It’s just so wrong to do this to them.

aero on February 25, 2008 at 5:55 PM

VolMagic on February 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Well, isn’t that snarky. But I agree, not many understand economics–heck, it’s Greek to me, I’m an English major. I do know what my Daddy taught me, however: “It always costs somebody something.”

And speaking of English…spell check. :-)

CollegeGirl on February 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Heck, doing away with most military spending would pay for a lot of it. You know, reduce our armed forces down to the size of the UK’s or Germany’s or France’s.

If we’re going to go for European styled socialism let’s go whole hog.

/s

BowHuntingTexas on February 25, 2008 at 5:58 PM

The Bush tax cuts have resulted in record tax receipts for the federal government. When is someone going to hammer home this point?

pmoshields on February 25, 2008 at 5:55 PM

Y’know, I learned about this phenomenon (revenues go up when you cut taxes) by playing SimCity when I was barely more than a kid back in the early 90s. It was a simple concept that was easy to observe in the simulation game–kind of a “duh” thing once you saw it in action once or twice. Maybe our elected officials just need to play SimCity for a few days and they’ll get it. ;-)

aero on February 25, 2008 at 5:59 PM

Don’t be writing checks with your mouth that your ass can’t cash.

cjs1943 on February 25, 2008 at 5:59 PM

Deficit high
Trade deficit high
Social Security fund raided
Baby boomers begun to retire this year
Recession on the rise
Spending, form both sides of the isle out of control
Social, health and other services to illegals, and legals, out of control
Bush criticized for being the “compassionate conservative”

And they propose oodles of spending…

As with social*sm, and as Tyrs Fury, above, just said, once in place, never to be overturned, never. Beware what you vote, or don’t vote for. Beware!

Entelechy on February 25, 2008 at 6:00 PM

aero on February 25, 2008 at 5:59 PM

Sid Meier’s games are all great. I’m just waiting until we can send a diplomat into a major city and pay the people to revolt and we can have it (ala Civilization, the first one, never played all the sequels heh)

pmoshields on February 25, 2008 at 6:02 PM

I seem to remember a presidential candidate from Tenn. saying a lot of the same things a few months ago, alas, no one cared much back then, and my feeling is that no one cares much now.

ChrisM on February 25, 2008 at 6:03 PM

CollegeGirl on February 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Me’um spellz phine!

And I’m not talking Kudlow and Company type econ, just the normal stuff; Supply and Demand, elasticity of demand/price, inferior goods and normal goods, substitues and compliments. Even the effect of taxes on a product; it always is most heavily imposed on the buyer, even if the seller has to pony up a little.

VolMagic on February 25, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Ed – Glad to see your excellent work over here at Hot Air

Frank Tait on February 25, 2008 at 6:07 PM

I heard last Friday that the Govt’s idea of a wealthy family is a combined income of about 80k, is that correct?
If so I guess I’m rich.

Geronimo on February 25, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Unless you’re 25 and making $85,000 a year. Then you’re a poor child under SCHIP.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 6:07 PM

The end is near.

ThePrez on February 25, 2008 at 6:08 PM

CollegeGirl on February 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Looks like a ban for me then. I blame my parents, Texas skools, and almost ten years of learning the Army four-letter phonetics system.

Limerick on February 25, 2008 at 6:10 PM

VolMagic on February 25, 2008 at 6:04 PM

that point truly is lost. the point of a corporation is to make money. a corporation will always have its desired profit margin, and changing the cost of one component in its product, whether it be taxes or supplies, changes the price of the product. they will never take the entire tax burden on themselves, if they take any at all.

imo that’s why the fairtax is so appealing. eliminate corporate taxes and you will automatically see prices drop. tax receipts go thru the roof because all the people who are making millions and not paying any taxes (eg criminals) all of a sudden become taxpayers. only problem is repealing the income tax and making sure it never comes back =(

pmoshields on February 25, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Most of the college campuses don’t teach those kinds of econ classes anymore. They teach NEW economics of the liberals

Corsair on February 25, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Didn’t Barry O use $75,000 as the dividing line recently?

It seems not enough people really care – they either think it’s somebody else that’ll take the hit financially or the “benefit” will be greater than the tax cost (nationalized healthcare will actually be cheaper right?)

Captain – Welcome aboard and thank you for the fantastic work you’ve been doing!!!!!

Perfesser on February 25, 2008 at 6:12 PM

Does anyone have a link to Obama claiming the $75,000 number? I have yet to find it.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM

want to see someone in the GOP make the strong, and to me obvious point, that corporations don’t really pay income taxes but instead pass them along to consumers and that the best thing for the economy is to abolish corporate taxes.

that would be entertaining…. I’m sure that hillary would go apoplectic….

Just think to use exxon, the next time it comes up about how much profit they made… they pay taxes at 41% & change… they pay about the same amount of all taxpayers in the bottom 50%, some 65 million returns…

Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on February 25, 2008 at 6:18 PM

Great post. Glad to see the future looks bright on HA.

dedalus on February 25, 2008 at 6:18 PM

Does anyone have a link to Obama claiming the $75,000 number? I have yet to find it.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM

Wasn’t in the last debate?

Perfesser on February 25, 2008 at 6:23 PM

Ed, loosen up.

waterhouse on February 25, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Oh and don’t forget that each household owes $400,000 to keep Medicare and Social Security afloat, and that debt grows at $2-3 trillion a year.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Excellent post Captain…

Nineball on February 25, 2008 at 6:32 PM

Does anyone have a link to Obama claiming the $75,000 number? I have yet to find it.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM

From a speech at the Toyota Center, Houston on Feb. 19, per Rush’s partial transcription:

OBAMA: I want to take away those tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas. We’re going to give them to companies that invest right here in America. And we’re going to rollback the Bush tax cuts that went to all the wealthy people, and we’re going to give tax cuts to ordinary families, people who are making less than $75,000, we will offset your payroll tax, senior citizens who make less than $50,000, we want to say to them, “You don’t have to pay an income tax, you’re already having a tough time making ends meet,” and I will raise the minimum wage not every ten years, but to keep pace with inflation because, if you work in America, you should not be poor, and that’s a goal that we should set for ourselves when I’m president of the United States of America.

Nichevo on February 25, 2008 at 6:50 PM

Geronimo on February 25, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Wasn’t it Dave Barry who said Dhimmicrats consider “the rich” to anyone who owns more than on shoe?

oldleprechaun on February 25, 2008 at 7:00 PM

Sorry, …”to BE anyone”…

long day.

oldleprechaun on February 25, 2008 at 7:02 PM

Nichevo-

Thanks!

But he seems to just say he’s going to give tax breaks to those making less than $75,000, not raise them for those making more than $75,000.

Last I checked he and Hillary were only rolling back the top bracket’s cuts ($337k and above).

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 7:05 PM

To the list of woes following from higher taxation, it seems we can add that it will work against the Americans’ self-perpetuation at all levels. Having to delay or forgo having a child one would otherwise choose to have seems to be a huge and too-little recognized decrease in the standard of living, for the would-be parents, and also the would-be brothers and sisters, cousins, aunts and uncles, grandparents, and eventually, nieces and nephews. According to estimates, the Americans have only lately returned to having enough children to replace themselves. Moreover, those estimates include the children of illegal immigrants, who are likely to grow up linguistically and culturally Mexican. Even if one assumes somewhat revived fertility, the Americans are still dwindling relative to Mexico and many muslim countries. Further reducing Americans’ total fertility through increased taxation would amount to turning the United States more quickly into North Mexico or, worse, West Dar al-Islam. Nor can the Americans indefinitely avoid ceding their country to others by “closing the doors” on immigration. The Americans haven’t shown that they can control immigration even as matters stand; the likelihood of their ever doing so will dwindle if companies, parties, and generals come to have even greater need for workers, voters, and fighters.

In this time especially, it seems good for economic thinkers to discover again the full dignity of their subject as oikonomikê, household management. It seems good also to recover the understanding that the excellent, or just barely adequate, management of households is a matter of a country’s survival.

Kralizec on February 25, 2008 at 7:07 PM

Regarding Obama’s minimum wage blather (”I will raise the minimum wage not every ten years, but to keep pace with inflation”), I don’t know what new math he’s using, but according to the US Dept. of Labor, there have been 10 minimum wage increases in the 30-year period 1978 to 2008, which on my chubby little fingers, averages out to an increase every three years.

Nichevo on February 25, 2008 at 7:09 PM

Speaking of icebergs

bagadeez04 on February 25, 2008 at 7:13 PM

Obama stated at the last debate, per CNN’s transcript, that he wanted to abolish the Bush tax cuts, which will raise the average amount paid by $1,800 to $3,000 per year. Then he’ll offset that by giving giving everyone earning less than $75,000 a $1,000 back through a tax credit. He also stated he wanted to eliminate “loop holes” which is usually a euphamism for eliminating deductions – possibly increasing taxes on the middle class even more.

Perfesser on February 25, 2008 at 7:17 PM

The Americans haven’t shown that they can control immigration even as matters stand; the likelihood of their ever doing so will dwindle if companies, parties, and generals come to have even greater need for workers, voters, and fighters.
Kralizec on February 25, 2008 at 7:07 PM

Wow, nice post.

Welcome Captain Ed!! We hope you enjoy your new home ;)

Califemme on February 25, 2008 at 7:18 PM

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder what those who suggest voting for Obama or Clinton because their Republican candidate of preference lost are thinking.
“I’m in debt up to my eyeballs. Somebody please help me.”

Confutus on February 25, 2008 at 7:26 PM

The Dems free health care is going to give me an ulcer.

ronsfi on February 25, 2008 at 7:33 PM

The Dems free health care is going to give me an ulcer.

ronsfi on February 25, 2008 at 7:33 PM

Well, lucky for you, you’ll only have to wait 2-3 years to get that ulcer treated! And the free care you’ll get (assuming you survive long enough to receive it) will only cost you $5,000-$10,000 more per year in taxes!

aero on February 25, 2008 at 7:36 PM

But he seems to just say he’s going to give tax breaks to those making less than $75,000, not raise them for those making more than $75,000.

Last I checked he and Hillary were only rolling back the top bracket’s cuts ($337k and above).

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 7:05 PM

Happy dreaming. There’s this hint: “we’re going to rollback the Bush tax cuts that went to all the wealthy people…” followed by the cutoff salary mark of those who are not wealthy: $75,000.

You can’t truly believe that those families/individuals making between $75K and $337K will be untouched — they who have historically been the unsheltered scapegoats for tax schemes — not “poor” enough to catch a break, and not “rich” enough to laugh up their sleeves as they protect their assets.

Nichevo on February 25, 2008 at 7:48 PM

I have the answer: Obama can fine anyone who says they believe in anthropogenic global warming but do not actually walk the walk $1,000. Based on the fact that all liberals seem to believe in it, 59 million voted for Kerry, and with an assumption that at least 90 percent of them do not live the carbon neutral lifestyle, that would work out to $53,100,000,000 going in to the federal coffers.

Problem solved. We could pay for everything ;)

William Teach on February 25, 2008 at 7:54 PM

Happy dreaming. There’s this hint: “we’re going to rollback the Bush tax cuts that went to all the wealthy people…” followed by the cutoff salary mark of those who are not wealthy: $75,000.

You can’t truly believe that those families/individuals making between $75K and $337K will be untouched — they who have historically been the unsheltered scapegoats for tax schemes — not “poor” enough to catch a break, and not “rich” enough to laugh up their sleeves as they protect their assets.

Oh believe me, Obama is no dream of mine.

Im just going on what he’s saying. I thought it was the top one or two brackets and revert capital gains back to 28% and dividends back to top income bracket.

Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 8:19 PM

I thought it was the top one or two brackets and revert capital gains back to 28% and dividends back to top income bracket.
Chuck Schick on February 25, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Well, you’ll have to find your own quote for an Obama policy that specific for other than “the working poor” — because, well, he wouldn’t want to ruin all that “hope” by explaining who will be paying the bills. If you go to his campaign website, there’s nothing much more than the same nonsense he peddled in Houston.

And as far as dreams goes, this guy’s a very real potential nightmare.

Nichevo on February 25, 2008 at 8:37 PM

If you want to know where they’re headed, take a look at Europe. They’ll cut the military, not just bring the troops home, and they’ll try to raise taxes enormously to fund the welfare state. Allowing in hordes of immigrants to legalize and tax will also be part of the agenda. And aside from some talk radio pundits, who’s to stop them? Virtually every opinion and educational institution has been taken over by authoritarian collectivists who have instilled their thinking in today’s youth. There isn’t even a Reagan in the Republican party who can expound on why laizzez faire individualism is not just good economics, but a moral right.

NNtrancer on February 25, 2008 at 8:46 PM

The gaps are simply too large to be made up by hitting “the rich”, unless one defines “rich” significantly downwards.

I heard McCain say something today along the lines of Many of you will be very surprised to learn that you’re ‘rich’ according to Democrats who want to raise your taxes.

Buy Danish on February 25, 2008 at 9:00 PM

Also, the impact of a hefty tax increase — which is the effect of allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire — will be to take capital out of the market, resulting in decreasing revenues, not increasing revenues

That’s very debatable. When taxes are high enough to severely reduce investment then lowering taxes can increase revenues. It’s hard to say if we were at that point when the Bush tax cuts went into effect. At some point, decreasing taxes leads to less revenue. You get to 0% eventually, after all, so it is common sense. There is a “sweet spot” out there where you get the most revenue. Don’t get me wrong, I prefer the lowest spending and lowest taxes possible, but the argument that lower taxes = higher revenue is only correct in certain circumstances, namely when taxes are at a very punitive level.

RW Wacko on February 25, 2008 at 9:03 PM

Repealing the tax cuts will slow down the economy, & the rich will put their money in Switzerland like they did before Reaganomics.

jgapinoy on February 25, 2008 at 9:21 PM

I doubt Hillary or Obama will manage to double the federal debt like Bush did.

$4,500,000,000,000.00 was tacked on to the debt under Bush…a few hundred billion a year won’t come close.

alphie on February 25, 2008 at 9:36 PM

Pass the soma, I’m getting irritated.

Angry Dumbo on February 25, 2008 at 10:03 PM

Besides, this shouldn’t really take a genius to deduce. Anyone demanding an additional $287 billion a year in spending when we are facing the entitlement debacle from the retirement of the Baby Boomers has to have their head examined. Perhaps one can make an argument for tax increases to cover those costs, but increasing federal spending by hundreds of billions in this situations is akin to looking for an additional iceberg to hit before the Titanic sinks entirely.

You didn’t expect McCain to make the case for tax cuts in a debate with Obama.

Did you?

Angry Dumbo on February 25, 2008 at 10:33 PM

Both Hillary and Obama want to turn the US into europe. Everything is free there. And all it costs is an average 40% income tax and 20% national sales tax.

Working people can’t even afford to have children. Please don’t bring up that BS KINDERGELD (money for mothers) as its nothing.

Niether also understands that the world economy that would collaps if the US stopped buying other countries products. Part of the reason for the high taxes is to stop thir people from actually buying stuff. The high taxes here would do the same. It would stop the world economy in its tracks. The only thing the Euro’s get cheap is booze. Keep them drunk and they won’t complain to much.

Eddiesmith8 on February 25, 2008 at 10:34 PM

I doubt Hillary or Obama will manage to double the federal debt like Bush did.

$4,500,000,000,000.00 was tacked on to the debt under Bush…a few hundred billion a year won’t come close.

alphie on February 25, 2008 at 9:36 PM

Democrats now control Congress. This year is projected to possibly be the worst deficit in history. Plus add in the inevitably raided SS surplus and you’ll have Hillary or Obama start year one with about a $700B deficit. Then add in all their extra spending, which looks like it will be more than the promised tax hikes.

Chuck Schick on February 26, 2008 at 12:58 AM

Well,

If anyone can get our federal budget back in balance…it’s a Clinton.

alphie on February 26, 2008 at 1:16 AM

RW Wacko on February 25, 2008 at 9:03 PM

obviously at 0% revenues stop, and there is most likely diminishing returns on the increase in tax revenues as you get closer to 0%, but effectively, decreasing tax rates from .02% to .01% still increases revenue because the majority of profits go directly back into the economy, rather than sheltered away from taxes. Decreasing tax rates increases tax revenues, plain and simple. It has been proven across 3 presidential tenures (JFK, Reagan, and Bush 43).

pmoshields on February 26, 2008 at 8:06 AM

I’m surprised Ed’s allowing HotAir to change the title of his posts. The actual title of this article is, “USA Today: Who Pays The Bill?” I would have thought that would have been one of his conditions before agreeing to write here.

Personally, I want to see Ed’s face the first time he spends a tough, grueling hour writing a long, in-depth analysis of Pakistan’s leader and the changed headline here reads:

Dude!

Brace yourself, Ed. :)

Dr. Mercury on February 26, 2008 at 9:06 AM

If we’re going to go for European styled socialism let’s go whole hog.

Hillary and Obama: Doing the job the Soviets just couldn’t do.

saint kansas on February 26, 2008 at 9:12 AM

We are soooo screwed!

HotAirExpert on February 26, 2008 at 10:34 AM

Democrats are like locusts, coming in and destroying the work of others, while producing nothing of their own. I still remember back in the early 90’s when Clinton was calling his massive spending plans “investments”. Has anyone ever calculated the “return” on those investments?

To the person who said these policies basically screw later generations: I agree, but the problem is that Democrats think these are “optimal” policies and that any future generation shouldn’t want to change them (government intervention in the economy never goes down, only up). They completely discount the possibility that we might not want to be locked in to spending on entitlements in every possible future scenario, but would instead prefer some policy flexibility.

venividivici on February 26, 2008 at 10:45 AM

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