What’s The Matter With California?
posted at 12:39 am on February 24, 2008 by see-dubya
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Saw this book on the shelf today and can’t wait to pick it up–because it presumes to answer a question I’ve been asking myself for various reasons since I arrived here. The author is Jack Cashill, a World Net Daily columnist who, though he expounds some of their more lurid Clinton conspiracy theories (Flight 800 was a terrorist attack that was covered up, Ron Brown’s plane was…well, not sure how far he takes that one), still tells a pretty good story about the Left Coast.
Growing up…I did not realize I lived in a particularly crowded place. I never presumed that I was entitled to a seat on the subway, a diamond lane on the parkway, or a virgin stretch of beach to run around naked on. The people in California do, and that is, I would learn, part of what’s the matter.
The title, of course, is a play on the title of Thomas Frank’s book, “What’s the Matter With Kansas?”, which wondered why Kansans kept voting conservative when anyone could see that progressives really had their best interests at heart. Apparently Frank’s salvo at Kansas mentioned Jack Cashill by name, and inspired a retaliatory book. I love this kind of reversal–conservatives have often complained about liberals going off to study us as if we were some sort of freakish anthropological oddity, like (as Jonah Goldberg put it) Dian Fossey chasing her Gorillas in the Mist. Well, here’s a fellow from Kansas City donning his pith helmet and hacking through the jungles of the Golden State, notebook in hand and tongue in cheek.
It’s a question that concerns the nation, not just California, since so many of the crazy ideas that land on the rest of the country arrive there courtesy of the the progressive whiz kids running the show out here. Not content to reduce their own state to a destitute, near-socialist moral shambles, Californians like Nancy Pelosi are eager to export the Palominocrat agenda to the rest of the country. What’s wrong with California will likely very soon be wrong with your neck of the woods as well.
I tell visitors here that California represents the best and worst of America: It’s rich, tolerant, creative, dynamic, and beautiful. It’s also vain, avaricious, collectivist, anti-intellectual, and oversexed. The contradictions are vexing: how can the state that gave us Reagan give us so many Jerry Browns? How can the home of the San Fernando valley porn industry also give us American religious phenomena like Aimee Semple McPherson and Rick Warren? How do Cal Berkeley and the Claremont Institute spring from the same weird soil?
Some of the problems are obvious: an entitled liberal aristocracy (especially in Hollywood, but also the Bay Area jet set), race-hustling politicians, a Democratic political machine with great job security, an unchecked flow of immigrants with no incentive to assimilate, too many green activists with too much power, no conservative newspaper to balance the dull leftist mediocrity of the LA Times and the SF Chronic…
I could go on ad nauseum, but I’ll bet you Hottie commenters have some pretty good ideas about what’s wrong with California as well.
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I’ve got you beat Chakra when it comes to getting the HA crowd a little on edge. Mostly, because as a Moderate I bring a bit of Straight Talk to the aumish, but your spiel or schtick is a bit like Stern. All shock, no depth. So yes, you are the loser, or winner, f%ck it, more yellow tail shiraz.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 3:08 AM
Come on Chosen my arms are longer..
Chakra Hammer on February 24, 2008 at 3:09 AM
:)
Chakra Hammer on February 24, 2008 at 3:10 AM
I love California. The Sierra Nevadas are my stomping grounds.
Lived there for twelve years. (Moved recently)
Everything that everybody said about it is true.
Didn’t vote for Governor Shriver, though.
Tom McClintock was the true conservative.
Saltysam on February 24, 2008 at 3:25 AM
This is one of the most well written post I’ve ever seen on Hot Air…(the post not my comment)
Living in California I can tell you one thing, the people are just dumb, I would include myself in this assertion, but then how dumb can I really be compared to the other folk if I know what’s wrong.
Californians don’t understand much about anything, they (rather we I guess) have a very narrowminded view on all subjects that lead them (or us, that’s the last one) to think to the extreme corners of the hallowed mind.
I would say the same about Evangelical Conservatives, but because they aren’t barred to one certain state, one can’t poke such directed fun in any one state’s direction.
Lastly, with California, an individual could say that the truth is in the eye of the beholder. The likes of Reagan can come from such a zany place because California has a large enough population that all walks of life pound our section of America. The beholder, however, only looks at the truth he or she wants to see, they don’t want to see a Reagan from California, they want to see their enemy – a liberal.
PresidenToor on February 24, 2008 at 3:27 AM
Mav may very well win Cali. He’s called the third senator from the state, and Obama got housed out there. Cali only cares about national defense when it comes to them, mostly because they are gutless cowards, however if China, Putey, and Kim Jong make their intentions to dance noticeable, Mav will win Cali and that will be that. Mav by the way leading in Virginia. Ohio, Florida, Texas, and close in Penn, NJ.
By the way, I’ve noticed, the longer you stay up the more moderate HA becomes. All the aumish hit the hay by 9.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 3:30 AM
I dunno… I’ve been stationed at Camp Pendleton, and people in San Diego County, which extends north past Oceanside, are generally patriotic and good-hearted.
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 3:31 AM
PresidenToor on February 24, 2008 at 3:27 AM
A man’s man. Got good energy.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 3:33 AM
A land of many contradictions, indeed.
Saltysam on February 24, 2008 at 3:41 AM
Its more like NorCal (or just the bay area) and SoCal separated by the central California agricultural DMZ. I think most of the animus lies with the southerners as I can’t really see the silicon valley crowd showing any interest beyond what goes on outside it that doesn’t get posted on valleywag.
Illegal immigration is quickly eroding it all though. More and more central California is starting to resemble a shitty province of mexico.
I haven’t been to either, but I’ll wager anything with special forces troops is going to be made of significant portions of both Epic and Win, then any other place on earth. That being said their are pockets of conservatives around here and outside just about everywhere out side the Metropolises the demographic shifts.
California is ultimately more red then blue, but the fix is in. The special election Ahhhnold held was the last best shot we had. The leftards brought out the Nurses union, Police and Fire, and teachers union to poison the well with the voters. All the initiatives failed and Ahhhnold is breaking left to salvage what can be called his “legacy”. Hopefully we can get some support from the national level GOP and some better organization. Fung almost won with barely showing up, I think we can defeat the socialists here with a little effort.
liquidflorian on February 24, 2008 at 3:42 AM
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 3:42 AM
For ambiance….
liquidflorian on February 24, 2008 at 3:54 AM
I have no pitty on Cali conservatives, just as I have no pitty on Massachusetts conservatives. When your surrounded, you must attempt to breakout, before surrender. Enough is enough. Moving is an option. North Carolina in her mountains or her coast or her very soul in the piedmont is not only an option but a majestic opportunity my friends.
So pack up your hybrids, toss your foul hallucinagenic weed to the side, and join us. The waters are warm.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 4:06 AM
I should be in bed, however I’m watching “The Civil War” by Ken Burns. I just wanted to state to my fellow HA readers that fighting is an option. I would like to salute whomever, with despair in his words, in which he stated his willingness to fight for his home. That spirit has kept me and my family free for generations, I commend you.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 4:20 AM
Haha! Clever. Not bad music, either. Don’t usually listen to that sort of thing, but I liked it.
Hadn’t heard that, El Guapo! I use my state license anyway, just so I can leave my miliary one safely tucked away, so I havent had an issue. Have you had problems with establishments there?
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 4:25 AM
I’ve lived in Santa Cruz nearly my entire life. I was born here. What screwed this town up was the University of California. The locals wanted to bring it in in the early sixties for the money and jobs. Nobody foresaw what it would do to the town politically. It brought in an enormous block of transient student voters who voted just to the left of Mao during the sixties and early seventies. Lots of Professors and graduates got elected to local office. Once they were in they created a system of NGO’s and a political organisation called SCAN (Santa Cruz Action Network) that’s helped keep them in power. Even if you could vote them out tomorrow, the appointed clowns they’ve installed will take a generation to get rid of.
trigon on February 24, 2008 at 4:25 AM
This is why I chose to arm myself rather than be forced to move out of my apartment in Las Vegas. It is my home, my neighbors, my neighborhood, and I refuse to give it up to thugs or liberals.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:30 AM
Doing nothing or running away is as bad as supporting the enemy. The day you stop fighting is when your enemies feel victorious.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:32 AM
trigon on February 24, 2008 at 4:25 AM
Man. Santa Cruz.
Been there quite a few times. It’s amazing what people can do to a place. Love that old roller coaster, though.
Saltysam on February 24, 2008 at 4:37 AM
Amen.
Saltysam on February 24, 2008 at 4:38 AM
This is why I chose to arm myself rather than be forced to move out of my apartment in Las Vegas.
Don’t commend me friend. moving is an option not a neccessity. If you feel like you need to have a loaded weapon with you for security, COME TO NORTH CAROLINA. I leave my doors unlocked at night. There is a wholesale difference in feeling scared and feeling pressured. Not to mention Cali is very similar in the sense that there aren’t many places in the entire world where you can enjoy the cripsy hot chic laden coastline with a wintery foresty montainous region perfect for changing leaves and skiing in the fall.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 4:40 AM
Nice. I’m due to watch that again…and again.
Saltysam on February 24, 2008 at 4:40 AM
THE CHOSEN ONE
I’ve been to NC! I was stationed at Pope AFB/FT Bragg and lived in Fayettenam. That city was horrible, and was laid out like some retard tried playing SimCity for the first time. Kind of like Cali politicians! The rest of NC was ok, especialy the coastal towns.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:46 AM
I love NC… especially Winston-Salem, with all the tree-lined walks and old buildings.
Wilmington is a treasure, as well.
Good times.
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 4:46 AM
I miss Pilot Mt.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:47 AM
Wilmginton and Wrightsville Beach were my favorite escapes besides the wilderness of Pilot Mt.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:48 AM
Ha, Fayettenam! Well said. That place is terrible.
I remember well an intersection there, that had a Waffle House on one corner, and on the opposing corner sat… a Waffle House. It was trippy, and more than a little sad.
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 4:50 AM
joewm315 that whole city is sad, and almost as dangerous as las vegas. But the outskirts and towns around Fayetteville were nice. I had a house outside of Sanford for about $750 a month – 1 acre lot, 1/2 price i am paying now and twice the sq ft i am getting now.
thanks to rich californian’s overspeculating las vegas’ real estate. Is Oregan and NorCal having the same problem?
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:55 AM
joewm315 Shoot, i remember the bypass, 401, had more stop lights than the business route. Can you say “de-de-deee!?”
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 4:57 AM
Yeah that’s Fayettnam exactly. I hope you may get the chance to visit cherokee, or Asheville, Wilimington, Raliegh, Pinehurst, and Charlotte my friends. One thing I can guarantee, when you walk down the streets of NC, you can rest assured that folk will look you in the eye and give a firm handshake upon request. NC is not just about the beauty of the Outer Banks or the serenity of a cove in a seclude Laurel in the hilltops, but it’s citizens. It’s the people, their children, the stories, and the water. It’s warm, it’s warm indeed.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 24, 2008 at 5:01 AM
This episode is what separates the west from the jihadists. In response to a book that most conservatives would find pretty ridiculous, we do not find riots, car bombings, or molotov cocktails being thrown into embassy windows. Instead, we see someone picking up a pin and righting a rebuttal.
This is how it should be.
amkun on February 24, 2008 at 5:03 AM
He also picks up a pen and writes a rebuttal. Yeesh :|
amkun on February 24, 2008 at 5:03 AM
THE CHOSEN ONE
yep, i can concurr the southern current of the atlantic ocean was warn even in the fall and early spring! Unlike Cali too. No wonder people looked at me like i just cussed them when i would say “good day” to strangers in the street.
I plan on trying to PCS backto the right coast. This left coast mentality and way of living is the downfall of civilization.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 5:04 AM
Yikes!
I can’t speak on Oregon, but Phoenix, where I own a home and visit on occasion (you know how that is), has had an influx of Californians. The recent credit crunch has offset the skyrocketing home prices they brought with them, but we’re still left with death-defying California drivers mucking up our freeways with the detritus of their vehicles and those of hapless native Arizonans.
They seem to be fleeing the mess that liberal policies have made of their state, yet bringing those liberal policies with them. (No offense to the Chosen One or anyone else who has been forced to flee due to crap they didn’t vote for.)
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 5:06 AM
amkun
is this why it is so hard to have conservative speakers at colleges without getting shouted down, assaulted, or the Dean or whoever pettitioned to have the event cancelled? Or show up at an anti-war protest or anti-Israel/Pro Islamist/Hamas rally as a counter protest and end up getting assaulted?
And they call us conservatives the fascists. talk about being ignorant to their own ways!
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 5:09 AM
Like I said…Talk about being ignorant to their own ways!Liberalism truely is a mental disorder.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 5:11 AM
Well guys you better get out and do as his mom said! Vote for him with a grain of salt. Or as I say, Vote for him (McCain)like a Tequila shot, otherwise you’ll end up with Clinton/Obama/Daily Kos/Huff Post making things worse and still finding ways to blame Bush for that too!
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 5:15 AM
I shall do my duty, much as I may wish it were another man in his stead.
Good talking with you, El Guapo. (Bas Rutten fan?) I wish you well in Las Vegas. Stay safe.
joewm315 on February 24, 2008 at 5:20 AM
joewm315
Who the is Bas Rutten? Sounds like a Ramstein song!
Just kidding. I am a Three Amigos fan…and On the contrary I like Bruce Lee’s phylosophy. Every enemy has his own way to be defeated. Several softer but quick strikes to the same spot will quickly add up to the same as one hard successful strike, and your opponant will be more tired for failing to defend more numerous and quicker strikes.
It’s a “little guy” tactic. If you cant overpower them, out-fight and out smart them. The bigger they are the harder they fall and the more energy it takes for them to get back up. Good night/morning.
El Guapo on February 24, 2008 at 5:30 AM
Cashil discusses What’s the Matter with california on BookTV. I watched most of the program and Cashil covers just about everything mentioned in this Blog entry.
I recomend listening to the interview (I listened to it some time ago). He did mention that the rot started with no-fault divorce which led to the destruction of the family.
You might also want to watch Tony Rafael on C-Span as he discusses the Mexican Mafia.
davod on February 24, 2008 at 6:47 AM
What’s the matter with California?
Over 36 million people driving too fast to get “somewhere” they can have some fun, because they are ENTITLED to it!
You will find most of the worlds most obscene excesses in sunny (if you can see through the brown cloud) Cal.
I lived in Cal from 1973-1981 and again from 2000-2005. I have lived in Long Beach, Gardern Grove/Westminster, San Jose and the little town of Dixon outside Sacramento. There used to be major differences between LA/OC and the Bay Area.
Not so much anymore. They both SUCK!
The best parts of Cal can still be found north of San Francisco (probably not for long).
The changes I saw in the 25-30 year gap were unbelievable.
dddave on February 24, 2008 at 7:06 AM
I live in Virginia, but since my company is HQ’d in the SF Bay Area, I’m out there about once a month…sometimes more.
The CA liberal mindset is insidious and infectious. You’ll meet people you think are perfectly normal and centered, and then the most insane far-left gruel dribbles out of their mouths.
flipflop on February 24, 2008 at 7:40 AM
Yeah I still cant put my finger on what’s wrong with SF. I live in an east coast version myself. The people are very nice, they typically arent barking moonbats or wild eyed liberals on the surface. Possibly if you get into a prolonged political conversation it may come out, but I’ve yet to really experience it. And yes there are the fairly common bumper stickers about saving the planet and how dumb George W Bush is, but that’s really as far as it goes in everyday life.
I think they seek fulfillment. Thats the only conclusion I can reach. Things are so good for them on the basic levels (i.e. they are typically well off, middle to upper middle class, nice home, good job etc.) that they search for some kind of meaning. Help the poor, save the planet, fight the power. Then they have strange ways of going about those missions.
Dash on February 24, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Humm, your rants never struck me as Moderate. And “Straight Talk”? More like arrogant rants from an obnoxious know-it-all. I think you have done more harm for your man, McCain, than you realize. Come on, you’re really on Obama’s team, right?
stenwin77 on February 24, 2008 at 8:29 AM
Illegal Aliens !!! California’s biggest problem.
stenwin77 on February 24, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Lived all over California for about 8 years. You can almost divide it into three states. The Central Valley could easily secede from the state, and it would almost lean blue. Northern Bay and Coast down to SLO could go communist/socialist rather easily. South of the Grapevine would Balkanize–it is more diverse than any other area. The reason we left was some of what was mentioned before. I married a CA girl and we tried to take up roots. Many factors previously mentioned drove up the cost of living. I got tired of paying top dollar for a smaller and smaller place. We paid exorbitant prices way inland. We’re fortunate to have sold when we did. The state, county, and local governments in many areas are losing their ability to provide adequate services. That does not stop them from charging for those services. Many outside people deride CA without having lived in CA. Those people are missing out on many beautiful places and many beautiful people. There still are conservative hotbeds and right thinking people. Some are quite active in local politics and in some of the assemblies. Thank you for the trip down recent memory lane see-dubya. Monterey, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz—some of my favorite places. Bake and the rest of Central Valley are wonderful as well, although I have to say what makes it wonderful is the people, not the weather or some of the scenery. The only other major drawbacks to the Central Valley is car theft and meth. Last I had heard, the Central Valley had several towns in the top 10 for car thefts in the country.
Cold Steel on February 24, 2008 at 8:46 AM
Chakra, you made that pretty darned obvious when you said “Berkeley looks northeast of San Francisco so San Francisco must be Southern California”. I don’t think you realized just HOW deeply you shoved that foot down your mouth.
DUDE…the Oakland/Berkely area is literally RIGHT across the freakin’ BAY BRIDGE from San Francicso. Yeah, technically it’s probably northeast of SF but essentially you get off the bridge, make a few turns, go up a few hills and you’re right there. And the urbanity never stops. Basically you drive from city center across some water and then arrive at the next inner suburb over.
It’d be no different from crossing from Jersey over to LongGUYlund. Or from Arlington to Bethesda. In fact, driving from San Fran to Berkeley is closer than either of those two comparisons, probably.
As for the dividing line? I’m not a Californian but spent a heckuva lot of time there on business. From what I could gather from the locals, it would seem that, as far as the coastal areas are concerned (interior is quite different country than the coast and tends to be a lot more conservative than the coast), the dividing lines would appear to be something along the lines of:
1. Big Sur and points north = Northern Cal
2. Santa Barbara and points south = Southern Cal
3. In between? “Central Coast”. A kind of “in between and neither area” that is actually largely rural farming country and thus, the people there don’t particularly feel any need to be overly influenced by either the northern nor southern parts of the state. One of the larger towns would be San Luis Obispo – - isn’t this where the Hearst Estate and Mansion are?
At least, that’s how native californians described it to me.
BTW I understood the joke you were tryin’ to make with that “Ft. Bragg” line but frankly IMHO it wasn’t funny. Which is why you got the reaction you did from a lot of others ’round here.
Shirotayama on February 24, 2008 at 8:58 AM
I was born and spent my childhood in Escondido, California (near San Diego). Liberalism is what’s wrong with California. Depending on somebody ELSE to fix MY problem.
Mojave Mark on February 24, 2008 at 9:26 AM
At some point California will swing so far left that it will swing back right. It will carry conservatism to ridiculous lengths just as it did liberalism. For some reason, the State attracts the extremes of any movement or ideology. But, lets leave them alone lest they move out and the rest of us have to put up with them.
jeanie on February 24, 2008 at 9:35 AM
See-Dubya asks an easy question:
“The contradictions are vexing: how can the state that gave us Reagan give us so many Jerry Browns? How can the home of the San Fernando valley porn industry also give us American religious phenomena like Aimee Semple McPherson and Rick Warren? How do Cal Berkeley and the Claremont Institute spring from the same weird soil?”
It’s actually a 2-part answer, and neither See-Dubya, nor any of you here, are going to like it.
1. Hard as it is to believe, California is not some island nation 6,000 miles off our coast. There is no wall or line of demarcation between it and Oregon, Nevada and Arizona. It’s not a “nation”, doesn’t have its own “special demographic”, “political ideology”, or any of the rest. If its city and state legislatures are filled with liberals, well, what metropolitan area isn’t? I live in a state (Florida) where 99% of the regular folk living outside the cities are staunch war-supporting conservatives, yet the libs so infuse the cities that we end up being a ’swing state’ in elections. California is the same, except that it has a lot more city folk, thus isn’t a ’swing state’. Pretending it’s some kind of unique foreign country where strange, unexplained things happen is nothing short of naivete. Or purposeful disingenuousness.
2. Every war needs a common enemy that you, dear readers, can rally against and thus draw you together in the common fight. In great part, it’s why you come here every day — so catch the latest ‘war happenings’. The bloggers here are highly aware of this and stoke the flames whenever they can. If some moonbat in S.F. mouths off about the war or the environment, you can bet HotAir will have the story online within minutes.
In the final analysis, your guile is being exploited for ideological purposes and to make money. The more readers, the greater the chance that one of you will click on an ad banner. Same old story.
Look, a challenge!
Ready to learn how you’ve been manipulated and used?
In Defense of San Francisco
The next time you read some right-wing blogger badmouthing California in general, or S.F. in particular, remember the golden rule when it comes to listening to so-called experts:
Ask for their credentials!
Dr. Mercury on February 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
An anecdote about something most Californians need to have a bit more understanding of.
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college.
Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words, redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his. One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.
He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA , and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was
taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which
left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She
didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?”
She replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.”
Her father asked her, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend Audrey, who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, “That’s a crazy idea. How would that be fair? I’ve worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work. Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!”
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”
bbz123 on February 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Reagan lived much of his life in California, true, but the man was born and raised in Illinois.
eanax on February 24, 2008 at 9:53 AM
When I was 18 (in 1979), I spent a summer in Long Beach. Working in a health food store, I saw the most extreme granola people (flakes, fruits, & nuts).
I’ll never go back!
jgapinoy on February 24, 2008 at 9:55 AM
That’s the nice thing about blogs as I see it. One doesn’t need an “expert”. All one needs is eyes and ears. Blogs….the great levelers.
jeanie on February 24, 2008 at 9:56 AM
California is what happens when you have a discontent (for whatever various reasons) majority. The spirit of America brought here by the original settlers have been lost on the left coast.
To quote an old chinese proverb “the grass is exactly as green as it needs to be right below your own feet”
myamphibian on February 24, 2008 at 10:26 AM
And that’s why everyone else moves there, basically…
eanax on February 24, 2008 at 10:29 AM
I’m a second generation born and bred Southern Californian.
I am over 50 and have seen us go from a Red to a Blue state.
there are 2 basic reasons:
1.”Lib Nuts” moving here from other states.
2. The Republican party out here has pathetic leadership and the National Republican party has written us off. They even ran a Dem for Governor … and he won.
Pray for us …
Chimp 6 on February 24, 2008 at 10:40 AM
Dudes…seriously…when you get away from certain coastal cities here in California the majority of Californians are extremely sane conservative people.
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Exactly. Look where all of the immigrants are from. It’s not just Latinos from Mexico and Central America. California has such an enormous amount of immigrants from all over the globe. And, as an aside, it’s amazing how many Canadians you find living there…
eanax on February 24, 2008 at 10:50 AM
What is wrong with California? Easy… the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Go Giants!
AndrewsDad on February 24, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Not true at all! As a native Californian (who’s in Jersey now, but only until I can get a good job to go back home), I have to say that SoCal rocks. Lotsa open space, mild weather all year, and lots more conservatives than people realize, especially in Orange County where I’m from. Now up north, well, those folks are just on another planet. You’ve got Berkley, ‘Frisco, and Santa Cruz county all within 100 miles of each other. Of course, it doesn’t help matters that the state’s center (Sacramento) is in the north too, which means even deep red Orange and San Diego Counties have to follow marching orders from wacky northerners.
Incidentally, that’s why I’m in favor of Electoral College proportional distribution system in CA rather than the winner take all system that we have now. If I were still in CA, my vote for President wouldn’t matter much. (Probably doesn’t here in Jersey either, but I don’t consider this place home.)
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 11:06 AM
I think this is more or less true. Not sure what it is about the ocean that moves people leftward, but you can definitely feel a pull.
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 11:09 AM
Hard to imagine it’s the majority any longer. Elections show otherwise, your legislature and gov. show otherwise.
btw, lived in CA before, both N.& S, and just a few miles from where u are.Much of my family lives there. Was my idea of paradise. Now don’t visit anymore and have given up idea of retiring there.
JiangxiDad on February 24, 2008 at 11:10 AM
California isn’t winner take all anymore… we changed it last year… thank god…
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 11:14 AM
I didn’t know that. I guess I’ve been outta the loop since I moved. Good for y’all.
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Funny thing is that in CA a good number of Latino immigrants, legal or illegal, are evangelicals and are instinctively social conservative. Problem is that most Latinos there come from Mexico, which as a country is probably as nationalistic as we are, which makes them harder to integrate. Of course, there are a lot of exceptions to this.
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Yup, maybe we can finally straighten out the democrats gerrymandering of the state.
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Take it easy battery chucker. The Dodgers are what’s right with CA, especially SOCAL. Think Blue.
Cold Steel on February 24, 2008 at 11:30 AM
its a big ass state
blatantblue on February 24, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Just have to comment! Native SoCal girl (original valley girl actually—born in Encino, totally!), now living in, wait for it, West Virginia!!! Would never, ever, ever raise my kids out there—I see what it’s like for my two nieces and no, thank you. Here in WV, we may not have the wonderful variety of people, restaurants, beaches, but heck, my kids take art, music, strings and band in PUBLIC schools with dedicated art, music and PE teachers. What I am giving up in restaurants, etc, I can get from a 8-10 hour drive (nothing for a native Californian!) East or West to major metropolitan areas. Then I get to leave the associated crowds, noise and crime and return to WV where I can leave the door unlocked, most of the time. Yeah, I miss CA and all the options I had there as a young-ish girl, but I do have my priorities.
Up thread comments about what’s happened, I must agree. The fall of aerospace has hit alot of areas hard, and changed the population. Cost of living alone is crazy, and who would pay $500,000 for a tract home in Lancaster CA to drive an hour and a half one way every day to work? That is crazy, and may just be “What’s wrong with California”. Southern, anyway.
dish on February 24, 2008 at 11:33 AM
meh, I cant understand why anyone would live in a tract home to start with, the drive on the other hand… My drive is a mere 45 minutes and for another 10 bucks an hour I’d drive an hour and a half no problem.
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 11:37 AM
I live in Phoenix. Our biggest problem here is illegals. The second biggest is California immigrants. They leave CA because it is so screwed up. What do they do when they get here?? Try to make AZ the same as CA. They seem to forget why they left CA. Please save us from CA immigrants.
pueblo1032 on February 24, 2008 at 11:38 AM
I live in SoCal, would somebody please save us from the California imbeciles first…Not that I don’t appreciate the imbecile leaving California, but sorry that they are now infesting your fine state…
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Tract homes are all there are now, no one is willing to use the land for anything else, besides stores. Spec building is how my parents found their home, on a cozy 3/4 acre. Friends are pushing them to subdivide and build a couple more homes on the land. So far, they’re resisting, and I’m glad. But they’ve seen the desert around them disappear under the cookie cutter tract homes springing up all over. Sad.
I don’t know if the majority of jobs in LA pay an extra $10/hr. The cost of living increase for that area was minimal when I was looking (a-way back in the mid ’80’s), no where near paying for the hassle of leaving home every morning at 4-5:00 am and getting home 12 hours later…
dish on February 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I refer to California as “The Planet of California” simply because it’s so far out there.
eclark1849 on February 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM
SaltySam is right. The Sierra Nevadas are something to behold. I have lived in N. CA my whole life. It is beautiful. I wish they would split the state from S.F. South. We up here from Sacramento North are considerably more conservative. The America haters and Liberal loons live along the coastline all the way North and down to the South.
We are not all living in the mindset of the land of “fruits and nuts”. It does sure seem that way though.
Hey, we have all the fantastic wineries!!!!!!! Whoo hoo!!!!! And believe me they are not all in Napa. Amador and El Dorado Counties have the best Zinfadels and Barbaras EVER!!!! Also Lodi, Pasa Robles and the Alexander Valley have wines that are superb!!!!!!!
FYI…San Diego is very conservative.
Winebabe on February 24, 2008 at 11:54 AM
No, it just depends on what part of the state you are in. Once you get away form the metro area’s tract homes are few and far between. I live right on that boundary here in San Diego county, there is on sizable track development here, San Diego Country Estates, once you get east of that more than a mile there aren’t anymore.
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Heh heh heh I live in a place that is giving your wineries terrible nightmares…Ramona California, here in San Diego County is rapidly gaining a reputation as having the finest soil and growing conditions short of the south of France in the entire world… Our wines are blowing wine makers around the worlds minds… I suppose it’s really a damn shame I don’t care for wine…
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Reading all these comments about CA makes me yearn for a return. I can’t fathom how people here in NJ can tolerate all this cold weather.
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Thats right, you’re in SD County—we also lived in El Centro (spincter of CA) and drove on 8 to San Diego as often as possible. We also used to take day drives up to your area just to get out of the heat. The mountains may save you from tract homes for a while, but if the area maintains it’s growth, I’ll bet in a generation the metro areas will expand out your way. Heck, the Antelope Valley used to be like that—now, within the last 35 years, the metro area is expanding both east and west—all the way to the foothills in the west, and towards Victorville in the East.
dish on February 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Sorry, above message was to doriangrey
dish on February 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
NorthernCross on February 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM
I’m one of the few that LOVE the cold. After 30 years of “latenight and early morning low clouds, with plenty of sunshine”, I welcome the change of seasons. Just enough cold to make you want warm, and enough heat to make you miss winter. Perfect!
dish on February 24, 2008 at 12:07 PM
TOP FIVE PROBLEWMS WITH CALIFORNIA
1) THE LIBERAL ECHO CHAMBER
2) ILLEGALS
3) HIPPIES RUNNING THE SCHOOL SYSTEM
4) ECO NUTS
5) BERKLEY
I live in the Bay area and have to put up with these ingrates on a daily basis.There condecending attitude towards the rest of the country makes me want to scream. If it was not for the surf in the california i would of left a long time ago. The one good thing is Californians are going to save the world from Global warming, one ridiculous law at a time.
koypop on February 24, 2008 at 12:15 PM
koypop on February 24, 2008 at 12:15 PM
…assuming global warming is man-made, that is :)
dish on February 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM
I lived in a small town in central Colorado in the mid 90s,and it was creepy,everybody waving to you and saying hi.I really like the anonymity of SoCal,heck the only reason I stand out is Because I’m white,which is what happened to this beautiful place ILLEGALS!!!
And it never rains
Bob
Bobnormal on February 24, 2008 at 12:33 PM
BTW I’m a native Cali Boy,
Bob
Bobnormal on February 24, 2008 at 12:36 PM
San Diego’s population is currently declining. The housing industry here has pretty much up and died. The only people moving here seem to want to live very close to the ocean. 40 miles appears to be farther than they are willing to live from it. And last year we passed a measure that pretty much bans any and all subdivisions in the east county.
doriangrey on February 24, 2008 at 12:45 PM
First went to language school in Monterey, CA in the Army, and loved that area, and then lived north of San Francisco for a year, traveling up and down the whole state several times, spending time in LA on work, and love California, but had to move back East (home) for family reasons (illnesses) and haven’t made it back West, yet.
Sonoma, up in the hills, is sublime.
Big Sur, surreal.
Mt. Tamalpais, serene.
Skiing, sailing, surfing, skin diving, sipping Sauvignon.
What more could you ask for?
Plus, Oxnard is a damned funny name.
profitsbeard on February 24, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Actually that kinda-sorta applies to SoCal as well, in a Soccer-Mom-driving-a-giant-SUV-through-it-all-avoiding-the-potholes kinda way. The third-world invasion of illegals is in full swing, while the white families continue to conduct business-as-usual, cell-phone in hand. Kids think brown is the new black, Hollywood keeps pornifying everything in sight, and it’s no biggie seeing a $400G Bentley next to a truckload of illegal laborers at a stopight.
Just don’t take a wrong turn into a a bad ‘hood after dark. Not a good idea.
infidel4life on February 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM
…assuming global warming is man-made, that is :)
dish on February 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM
According to them” all debate is over”. I was not even sure when the debate happened. These nut cases have drunk so much global warming cool aid. It would be a hate crime to question their religion. You would be branded as intolerant and have to pay an additional carbon tax. They not only assume it was caused by man. They have been able to figure out which men. It turns out the men who caused it are all republicans and conservatives. So the solution to this problem is for the State to commit economic suicide so we can pay for their sins. This may sound like flawed logic, but if you live in Berzerkly it makes complete sense
koypop on February 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Cashill is a home town favorite, and occasionally can be heard filling in for Chris Stigall on the radidio. Interesting guy.
The biggest problem I’ve experienced when visiting mexifornia is the chainlink & barbed wire! dividers on the highway so the ultra-rich, inbred liberals aren’t inconvenienced by tragic collisions with border hopping illegal immigrants whilst driving to their ultra-rich, inbred, gated communities to write six digit checks to ‘pelosi-ize’ the nation and encourage more border hopping illegal immigrants.
Perhaps this is where silky ponied obamanators, et al, get this notion of ‘two americas’. You get more of what you pay for….
locomotivebreath1901 on February 24, 2008 at 1:12 PM
I’m a newly minted Californian. I moved out here from Jersey just last year. California has nothing on Jersey in terms of lunacy except for size. CA looms over the nation because of it’s buying power and the size of it’s congressional delegation/electoral votes. The only saving grace for me is I live in the most Republican county in the state, Kern County. Out here in the High Desert, you can get a permit to carry a handgun. You can go weeks without seeing more than a glimpse of law enforcement.
My only regret is the Nevada border wasn’t placed 60 miles further west, so I could avoid CAs income tax.
PeteRR on February 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM
right, that’s why it’s the 7th largest economy in the world and 17% of US GDP
oh please, “zonies” overun San Diego in the summer
main dif between Arizona and Socal? Pacific Ocean
Windansea is one of the coolest beaches and surfspots anywhere, lived there for 15 years, don’t expect to get mahy waves there if your are not a local, especially if you are a zonie kook riding a sponge :)
I wouldn’t call SDCE a tract, most of the houses there are custom designed, my parents retired there. Nice golf course, riding stables, and tennis club.
Me..I bailed out 5 years ago and live near Puerto Vallarta Mexico. rediculously low property and income taxes, lower cost of living in general, excellent fishing, comely senoritas and cold margaritas.
windansea on February 24, 2008 at 2:10 PM
I live in San Diego right close to the beach, I must know a half dozen guys down here who are over 40 and don’t own a long pair of pants or a car. They cruise the beach bars and hold onto a schmuck job and that’s their whole life. The problem with housing is that they don’t build the kind of housing people need. They keep building these McMansions that are hugely expensive and more house than anyone really needs and there isn’t a market for them as much as smaller dwellings.
Totally agree about the wineries. There are some really nice ones around Ramona and Julian nowdays. Local wines are very good.
I recently read a study about the changing population in San Diego county, the best estimates are that in 2005, about 19000 people moved out. They were mostly white middle class workers who could not compete with mexican labor anymore. About 15000 moved in. They were mostly mexican immigrants. It isn’t making things better. I see BC, (Mexican) license plates everywhere now and they are killing people on the road en masse. The other morning, I woke up to the news on the radio that three pedestrians were killed in one hour on San Diego streets. I have seen morons trying to fix a broken axle in the fast lane of the freeway in full speed traffic. I have seen 15 matteresses duct taped to the back of a mini pickup with a donut spare tire, swaying down the freeway at 75 mph. Oh, and my favorite, in Beverly Hills one time, I saw a fairly new gold mercedes,..dragging a muffler.
Bikerken on February 24, 2008 at 2:18 PM
What’s wrong with California? At the root, there’s a HUGH lack of Christians, even with all the Rick Warrens and Crystal Cathedrals. Period.
bluestater on February 24, 2008 at 2:23 PM
I consider California my home state, its where I grew up and went to College. The problem with California is two fold, besides what was mentioned by see-dubya. The first is California is really three states forced into one…South, Central, and North, ( four if you want to make the bay area a Rhode Island ). The second is the conservatives and Republicans are not organized. They have the winning argument, but they are waiting for people like Arnold to carry the water. In many cases the conservative tribes have so much in-fighting that the socialist party ( the democrats ) divide and conquer. But really, I think if California is broken up into four states, many things would take care of itself.
Conservative Voice on February 24, 2008 at 2:24 PM
With all due respect, Arnold is a classic RINO. He’s all talk, and most of that talk is meant not to antagonize the majority of liberals in the state.
eclark1849 on February 24, 2008 at 2:40 PM
At the beginning of Arnold’s political career, many conservatives looked to him as the next Reagan. But thanks for proving my point on the tribal war among us, versus getting organized to where it doesn’t matter who is in office.
Conservative Voice on February 24, 2008 at 2:52 PM
This posting is lenghty, but having come of age in the Bay Area (the East Bay, the less trendy and often more seedy side of the Bay Area) I can attest first hand to the pervasiveness of the “entitled liberal aristocracy” having had to deal with it into my 30’s before fleeing the state my father referred to as the “land of fruits and nuts” in 1993.
Don’t get me wrong, there are many things I love about California, it’s one of the most beautiful states in the union with lots to offer in the way of fun and activities, but the rest you can have, especially its politics and entitlement attitude.
While I have not lived in California since moving to Arizona is 1993 I work for a chemical company as their corporate Environmental, Health and Safety (EHS) manager with its corporate office in Oakland so I still visit the Bay Area often. I can tell you first hand in my position for the last 9 years I have experienced numerous examples of the engrained sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with some employees in the state of California.
Case in point, when dealing with hazardous chemicals as we do it’s important to ensure you follow established safe work practices and are using the appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE) after all they don’t call them “hazardous” for lack of a better description, some chemicals are very hazardous and can be life threatening.
I have actually had employees complain to Human Resources that they were offended or had their “feelings” hurt because I had the audacity to do my job, because I reprimanded them after witnessing them not utilizing the appropriate PPE while handling hazardous chemicals, for insisting they use the PPE the company has trained them to use and provided to them. The truly amazing thing is these same employees would be the first to call an attorney and sue the company out of business if they were injured on the job, yet they complain to HR when I call them on not utilizing the appropriate PPE to protect their own health and safety?
The company I work for has several locations in the western United States, however it’s only in our two California locations that I run into this level of entitlement. I always stress to our employees that safety is a two-way street, the employer has the responsibility to provide a safe work environment free from known hazards to its employees, therefore the company does all it can to manage (minimize or eliminate) known hazards through the development of a sound EHS program, but equally and no less important is the employees responsibilities for EHS, and that is for the employee to work safely within the environment provided, e.g., they are responsible for following established safe work practices and utilizing the appropriate PPE.
Yet it is obvious in my experiences (particularly with employees based at our California locations) that these employees want all the rights (entitlements) but refuse to live up to the responsibilities that go with these rights, and most of us (with the exception of many on the left) know with rights come responsibilities, but not in California, they want their cake and eat it too!
There was one employee in particular at our Oakland facility that was a true piece of work; this person optimized the California “entitlement attitude.” In fact IMHO he was the poster-boy for such an attitude.
I’ll try to sum up and hit the highlights of this particular employee:
1) He lied on his employment application, when applying for a truck driving position (a position that requires a Commercial Drivers License and a Hazardous materials endorsement for transporting hazardous materials) he said he was never convicted of a DUI, yet when his driving record was pulled he previously had a suspended license for DUI and had just recently had his driving privilege reinstated. Had he just been honest on the application it would have indicated his honesty, this should have been a big red flag to HR, but it was ignored.
He was hired despite having lied on his application (I must note here I was not employed with the company when this person was hired, had I been he would never would of been hired in the first place).
2) I started with the company in 1999 and during this time the person in question had the following incidents:
- Got into a physical altercation with a driver while delivering goods at a customer’s facility; the customer called to inform us he was no longer allowed on the premises.
- Approximately 3 months after the above altercation he had another one at a different customer’s facility and again was banned from their facility.
- He was delivering chemicals to another customer and grew impatient having to wait for a loading dock to become available and unloaded his containers of hazardous chemicals in their parking next to a drain. Once again the driver was banned from their facility as well.
- He had been given verbal warnings, write ups, and suspensions by me several times and was not given a penny of the annual safety bonus we award to our safe employees, to which he pulled out the race card and in no uncertain terms implied I was racist because he did not receive a safety bonus and had been given three days suspension without pay.
I should also note here that area managers and supervisors maintain a log to note when employees do positive as well as negative things in regard to EHS, I am based in our Arizona facility and my notes on this individual filled at least 10 pages in my book despite the fact I was present at the Oakland facility only once every three months. I must also note that I had requested this individual be terminated numerous times but was rebuffed by the facility VP/GM.
The final nail in this guys coffin was when I received a notification from California DMV (we are required by the State of California to monitor CDL driving records) that this employee had been cited for another DUI and could only drive for work purposes until his DUI case had gone through the court system. He was questioned about this when I informed corporate and came up with a bunch of BS, ensuring HR it was all a misunderstanding and that the case would go his way.
He was asked to keep us appraised of the situation and any additional changes in his driving status, which of course he never did, in fact it wasn’t until I received another notification from the DMV that his case had gone through the court system and his drivers license had been suspended (including for work related driving) that we realized he had been driving on a suspended license for two weeks because he never informed us (as we had requested) that he was convicted of the DUI.
He was finally fired, but here’s where the insult to injury really comes in, this person (again the epitome of the entitlement attitude) actually had the stones to go to the California Employment Board to request a hearing as he claimed he was unfairly fired. Of course we had ample documentation detailing his many issues from the time he was hired until his ultimate firing, so much so that even the ultra-liberal California Board of Employment could see his firing was anything but unfair.
It is no wonder California is losing so many businesses and along with it its tax base to pay for all of its entitlement programs. Businesses continue to leave the state in droves due to the costs of all the entitlements the liberal California government bestows on its growing nanny-state citizens. Yet despite the fact the state is collapsing under the enormous weight of all its entitlement programs the liberal California government continues on its course to ultimate economic collapse because (IMHO) their egos will not allow them to admit their liberal socialist dogma doesn’t work and will ultimately fail.
Unfortunately many Californian’s are moving to Arizona and I can already see the political tide changing, if it keeps going this way I may again have to flee to another state!
Liberty or Death on February 24, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Bikerken,
Oh, there’s a market for big houses still, believe me. Besides, most local building codes here in the Golden State prohibit small homes like you’re talking about. My own town in the High Desert has a 1,800 s/f minimum and intends to increase it to 2,000 s/f. Supposedly, it is to keep out the “riff-raff”, but they don’t seem to notice all the Section 8 people in 2,500 s/f tract houses…
In addition, “economies of scale” come into play: it is much more expensive per square foot to build a small two-bedroom house vs a 4,000 or 5,000 s/f 5-bedroom, 4-bath “McMansion”, and a much smaller profit margin, as well.
Spiny Norman on February 24, 2008 at 3:39 PM
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