Escalation: Warner sends letter to Obama asking for more information on Taliban ammo story
posted at 6:57 pm on February 22, 2008 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | regular view
The Standard’s got a copy, in which Warner promises to ask Gen. Casey and the secretary of the Army about it at next week’s Armed Services Committee hearing. Obama was right — he really is bringing Republicans and Democrats together:
What I need from you are the essential facts of when — the dates — the unit was deployed, to which brigade combat team, or other unit it was assigned, the name and current location of the captain, or other military personnel who shared the alleged facts with you, so that committee staff can debrief them.
Either this gets blown out of the water as nonsense or it gets the attention equipment shortfalls deserve. Good news either way. Thanks, Messiah!
Update: If this is a political ploy designed to benefit McCain, it’s exceedingly foolish. Obama can surely round up some stories of Afghan vets being underequipped even if his own source won’t go on the record. It’s an easy way to shore up his credibility as being pro-troop even if he isn’t pro-war.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
Stupid Obama is trying to use minutia to undermine the war and you dont counter attack by arguing minutia.
Thats why Obama is beating Hillary. He paints with a broad brush and when you break in down into details you lost the audience and they only remember the original premise.
You fight Ideas with Ideas not back and forth quibbles.
If Obama says “Our troops are not well equipted” Say “Well we are beating the Taliban.” IF he says America cant win thewar in Afganistan you say “America isn the only nation fighting to keep Afganistan free.
He fights a war of Big Ideas and wants you to fight him on petty facts.
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 7:05 PM
In short, a majority of our electorate has too short an attention to span to process facts and policies.
amerpundit on February 22, 2008 at 7:07 PM
CNN also spoke to the source, who again confirmed the facts and stated that he was pissed then and is still bitter bout it today.
BTW, Obama’s arument is NOT the Bush is underfunding the military, but that he diverted resources from the important Afghan war on the Taliban to the made-up Iraqi war on… whatever that war was originally on.
mofo on February 22, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Playing political games with troup funding has been the focus of this most “ethical congress”. Even if this is true, he and his ilk are to blame.
Les in NC on February 22, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Also, as far as dates, this occurred at the very beginning of the Iraqi invasion.
mofo on February 22, 2008 at 7:09 PM
I hope, for that Captain’s sake, that he didn’t embellish whatever he told Obama. The Army is a surprisingly small community.
BadgerHawk on February 22, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Now that’s one of the finest posts I’ve seen in a while.
Their side is masterful at the sucker punch, and our side is masterful at falling for it.
petefrt on February 22, 2008 at 7:11 PM
Obama must stay ethereal. This getting all specific will bite him. Stick to plagiarizing and platitudes. Don’t try your hand at military policy.
Cold Steel on February 22, 2008 at 7:11 PM
Good point. It’s a win-win. But it’s still annoying to hear a guy who would slash our military budget talk about how much he cares for the military.
BadgerHawk on February 22, 2008 at 7:12 PM
True but its more that Americans dont want fact checkers but leaders in political places. If you sound like an accountant you most likely wont get elected. Charisma does count for some things. But so does talking Ideas rather than details.
Id suggest a strong offense on Obama tro force him into a corner. Hes best when he drifts on by with his “Im a change person with Hope” campaign but then what you need to do is paint an unflatering picture of him that he either has to defend or makes him clairify his postion. If you knock him off his game plan you can beat him.
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 7:14 PM
Hmmm yes, you could be right. I think I agree with you from a political strategy standpoint but perhaps I’m not being cynical enough but Warner could just be sincerly concerned that the troops don’t have what they need. Perhaps he’s just trying to do the right thing despite the political consequences. Afterall, if someone told you a story about the troops being ill equiped and you were in a postion of power to do something about it, wouldn’t you? I think I would be doing exactly what Warner is doing here. Politics would come second. I agree with Allah’s take that the troops either get the stuff they need or Obama is exposed as being a liar. Either way its a good thing. If the troops really don’t have what they need that would infuriate me beyond belief. Shame on our inability or unwillingness to supply them with what they need. Hopefully the story Obama told isn’t accurate.
Zetterson on February 22, 2008 at 7:16 PM
BadgerHawk on February 22, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Badger:
But Obama does like armed men…. they just have to be the type that organize peasants and other down-trodden types. Militias and uprisings are great when you’re bringing the MAN down….not so good when you’re trying to stabilize hot spots or engender democracies. Che, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Arafat….. acceptable leftist military icons (just check fashion, music, art, literature for proof.)
Cold Steel on February 22, 2008 at 7:17 PM
William Amos on February 22, 2008
So if you want to talk ideas, the idea that Obama was pushing is that the Iraq war was a distraction from the really important war against terror in Afghanistan.
And that it was such a big distraction that it under-supplied our troops in Afghanistan.
The captain’s story was a vehicle for highlighting those two points.
mofo on February 22, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Thank God for smart people! I’d be lost without some direction (and Allah would ban me). Not snarking here. Us HS grads need someone to keep our feet on the ground.
Ok, done with the puckering, I’m ready to nod and wink again.
Limerick on February 22, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Heh. Right, it’s like breaking wind in a public place, then complaining about the smell.
petefrt on February 22, 2008 at 7:21 PM
I’m still giggling that he said “Tollybahn”.
I think it’s perfectly okay to call him out on this. If it’s true it should be rectified. If it’s false Obama won’t be so sanctified.
SouthernGent on February 22, 2008 at 7:21 PM
I’m pretty sure that our forces do use enemy weapons..not out of any shortage of supplies…I’m purty sure AK’s use .308 ammo…Like an M-14…You might get some special forces using AK’s…(like they did 40 years ago in Viet Nam)…Some one got a picture…well…you don’t really need a picture these days…some reporter saw a U.S. soldier with an AK…
Let the SNOWBALL of horseS$$t begin…
Just sayin’
BigWyo on February 22, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Kind of unusual that the Senators and Congressmen and women who have made visits to Afghanistan were completely unaware of such goings on, yet an inexperienced first half term far left Senator who happens to be running against a former war hero has information that up until now remained a secret. That is that we just believe we have the best equipped and trained military in the world. In actuality, our GI’s are forced to scrounge Taliban equipment. I think that requires the temporary suspension of reality, to coin a term.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on February 22, 2008 at 7:23 PM
True he is trying to drawl that distinction but to do that he has to argue that the war in Afganistan is being lost as well else the position that Iraq causes problems in Afganistan doesnt fly.
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 7:24 PM
I’m with you, Limerick.
William Amos you’ve nailed it to the wall with the your two posts above.
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 7:25 PM
Sure is, and they don’t like when they get stiffed by a CinC who has an agenda (and that’s ALL of them).
TOPV on February 22, 2008 at 7:25 PM
Obama is arguing for defeat. WIll simply have to say “when were we defeated ? How has this supposed problem caused the war to fail ?
We dont need to defend the war as much as we need to have obama defend losing.
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 7:26 PM
We are talking about the man who was stupid enough to join McCain in the Gang of 14 (and is one of my state Senators) and be husband number…oh hell, who knows what number he was to Elizabeth Taylor. A RINO blowing smoke as usual, to make another RINO look good (if that is possible).
TOPV on February 22, 2008 at 7:27 PM
The last AK-47 I saw fired 7.62mm rounds. They were available in Vietnam and I’m sure they are in Afganistan. Unless there was some critical shortage of U.S. weapons for American soldiers, I fail to see what the big deal is here.
rplat on February 22, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Willaim Amos #1
Willaim Amos #2
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 7:29 PM
I give up.
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Sorry….AK47s do use the 7.62 rounds…Soviet jacket.
Our weapons use the 7.62 rounds….NATO jacket.
Not compatible.
Limerick on February 22, 2008 at 7:31 PM
The problem Obama has is that in front of Obamacans he promises to be out of Iraq by 2009. Yet when he was asked about that directly he gavea a more nuanced “We have to consider the situation on the ground” type answer. He needs to be questioned directly.
Also his vote against amending Title IV to make English the national language should be interesting. He’ll whine about rhetoric, and bad tones, targeting Hispanics, etc., instead of answering the question. Forced into yes or no answers Obama will wither. If McCain lets him ooze away from yes or no questions it will be to his detriment.
Theworldisnotenough on February 22, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Yup, I agree with the political strategy points you have made in this thread. I think you are right on the money.
Zetterson on February 22, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Not sure that I agree. It would seem that if it’s proven he’s twisted the fact’s anything he offers up after that is suspect.
Rod on February 22, 2008 at 7:34 PM
I’m dizzy from all the spin … so I only know one thing for sure: if the Messiah manages to derail his unstoppable campaign because of this little bit of stupidity, I am going to be very, very amused.
Professor Blather on February 22, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Would you? Would you fire a weapon you don’t the how it has been maintained? Would you fire a weapon that hasn’t been zeroed to your vision? Would you make a habit of picking up and trusting your health and well being to an unfamiliar weapon? In a crunch, maybe. In a life or death, maybe. As a rule? I don’t think so.
This ‘Captain’ may well have faced just such a situation. Is it indicitive of the status of our forces? I call BS.
Limerick on February 22, 2008 at 7:38 PM
Yes, liberals like to pronounce foreign words in a foreign dialect, even if incorrect. They believe it shows a supposed affinity and appreciation for the subject, and a certain cosmopolitanism– although it merely shows, as usual, a contempt for one’s own language. It seems to trace back to the MSM stories on Noriega in NEE-KAH-RRAH-GWA, passed through many places such as NEE-JHAIR, and on to the TAH-LI-BAHN.
Iran is no longer Eye-Ran, but EE-RAHN.
I find it all enlightening; English being passe as you know.
JiangxiDad on February 22, 2008 at 7:39 PM
One thing you have to know, since it seems like that Muslim -by fooling people- has a chance to invade the White House:
Hussein is an America-hater.
For the first time in America’s history, we might get a president who actually HATES America and wishes her demise.
Learn to live with it.
This country is doomed by its own people: the idiot voters.
Indy Conservative on February 22, 2008 at 7:39 PM
This reminds me of the time Kerry said he would “triple” the size of Special Forces if elected…which you simply can’t do (especially in the time frame Kerry talked about). You have to try out for SP, you have to be a certain rank before you try out, and the vetting process is brutal…
I hate when politicians prey on civilians’ lack of knowledge about the military.
I don’t think this will backfire on Republicans–if it’s handled correctly. Obama looked like a fool when he said.
watchmen on February 22, 2008 at 7:40 PM
typo: SF
watchmen on February 22, 2008 at 7:41 PM
William, you’ve brilliantly summed up what McCain’s strategy should be for the upcoming debates. Hope you’re either advising his team or that they are reading this blog.
Well said.
Rod on February 22, 2008 at 7:41 PM
I also hope he has a paper trail showing he followed proper procedures in trying to alert superiors of the problem. I imagine there is a lot of CYA about to transpire at higher levels, and he better be able to show he contacted Obama after all else failed.
a capella on February 22, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Sooner or later, this will become the only thing worth focusing on.
JiangxiDad on February 22, 2008 at 7:42 PM
I agree. This is a bad move by Warner. I say, let the troops make fun of the story like they did to Kerry and leave it go at that.
bnelson44 on February 22, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Good grief! A tad hysterical, aren’t you?
a capella on February 22, 2008 at 7:44 PM
I thought Warner was just a useless tool. Is he Mac’s friend?
JiangxiDad on February 22, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Ummm we mostly use 5.56×45mm NATO(Similar to the .223 Remington)
Not the 7.62×39mm
Our variant, is the 7.62×51mm NATO
(Similar to the .308 Winchester)
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Machine gun round Chakra. Not Rifle. The AK47 requires a Warsaw/Soviet jacket (unless a knock off made here in the States). The M60 (and I forget the new version), use the 7.62 NATO jacketed round.
Limerick on February 22, 2008 at 7:47 PM
I still like the .30-06 Springfield
Though, I do believe that the .308 is more accurate.
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Just curious, but wasn’t Giuliani your guy?
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Unfortunately, Obama’s IQ > McCain’s IQ. Obama is playing chess. McCain is rearranging the deck chairs. McCain needs to turn it around.
indythinker on February 22, 2008 at 7:59 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg
From left to right:
.50 BMG, 300 Win Mag, .308 Winchester, 7.62 Soviet, 5.56 NATO, .22LR
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Yes, why?
I love guns.. I’m also an archer. >:}
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:05 PM
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:05 PM
I love guns too, but haven’t the knowledge that you have. I’m learning all the time though.
I just think it’s unusual that such a gun lover would be such a strong supporter of Giuliani. I’m not a Rudy hater, so don’t get me wrong.
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM
I wish. Every time I try to join a Campaing and offer them my services and my advice I get told to go out and post fliers or man telephones by some 20 something who is a knowit all and refuses to even take my advice. Really frustrating that after 15 years and multiple campaigns I still only get offers to do basic volunteer work by campaigns.
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Warner is still alive? Could have fooled me
We need a special gallery in Congress for all the mummies. Throw Levin in too if you can prop him up. Wow, and where is Byrd? Wikpedia says Byrd is still alive. Howver, Byrd has the record for naming the largest number of places after himself. Since this is usually done after the name holder has died, it is possible that even Byrd is not certain he is alive
Get them all together to investigate the weapons problem.
Again
entagor on February 22, 2008 at 8:14 PM
I get it from my father, he’s something of a “genius”, with firearms..
I grew up with it, my dad was kind of the “nice guys” Gunsmith.
He would repair, friends and families rifles, antiques etc, just for fun as a hobby, he loves it.
He also, did that in the Navy as well as some other things.
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:17 PM
Love to chat, but it is my wife’s birthday and our wedding anniversary. She just called and said she is headed for the barn. I know how to follow orders.
Keep the faith, or at least run the numbers again.
Limerick on February 22, 2008 at 8:20 PM
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:17 PM
That’s awesome. I’m a little envious actually. When ever I get around people that know a LOT about guns, I try to learn as much as I can.
Were you at least a tiny bit apprehensive about Giuliani though? Just a teeny weeny bit?
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 8:22 PM
ALLAHP –
THE ALLEGED EVENTS TOOK PLACE IN 2003-4.
IS THIS 2004, AND IS OBAMA RUNNING AGAINST DUBYA!?!?!
IN A WAY, IT SEEMS HIS THINKS IT’S 1972 AND HE IS RUNNING AGAINST NIXON…
reliapundit on February 22, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Have you forgotten the months long logistics build up in Saudi Arabia prior to the push to remove Saddam from Kuwait? Have you forgotten the months long supply build up prior to the commencement of hostilities in Iraq?
Have you forgotten how the democrats were complaining that we had ’subcontracted’ the fight in Afghanistan to local militias; that we had not sent in enough forces, and were using local fighters? Where was the months long supply chain build up for that fight?
Did you notice just how shocked the democrats were that we were successful despite not having half a million men, and the supporting supply chain in the area?
One of the characteristics of a Special Forces operation, like that in Afghanistan is reliance on local supply. Yet the Taliban folded up like a cheap tent in a windstorm as soon as the bombs started falling on their heads.
So hearing that a platoon leader used captured weapons is a criticism? When you should be praising the resourceful tactics of a successful operation.
You always discover, at the commencement of hostilities, that your logistics chain doesn’t reach the battlefield.
What is despicable here is not what happened on the field of battle, but that a politician is twisting those events for his own political profit.
Those men in Afghanistan did heroic deeds, in every sense of the word, and should be praised, not exploited by a self serving fake messiah.
It is completely understandable that a lieutenant would be unhappy that he was ordered to produce a miracle, without all the supplies he wanted, yet that same lieutenant produced that miracle as ordered.
Yet Obama and the anti war left want you to think it was a screw up, and you are going to believe him?
rockhauler on February 22, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Nope, not at all..
I understand what Rudy did and WHY he did it..
ANY fair minded person could look at it and see what he did.
He wasn’t looking to do that at the federal level, Rudy is a Federalist, so am I for the most part.
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:44 PM
One size does not fit all, but Rudy did save lots of lives in NY City before 9/11
By Reducing Crime and by lowering the Abortion rates faster than the national level, and increasing Adoptions, also getting people off of welfare and turning welfare centers into employment agencies.
Saving Life = Pro-Life IMHO
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:54 PM
There’s one Captain who will never get promoted again. My money says he never wrote a single report on this issue to his chain of command.
joewm315 on February 22, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Ever notice that it is always an officer or junior enlisted that is the source and never a senior NCO? It seems to be a constant problem with disgruntled officers that get passed over for promotion (especially 0-6 and above). Where are the Platoon Sargeant, Squad Leaders and Team Leaders??
Claimsratt on February 22, 2008 at 8:55 PM
I can see why Warner is miffed but, as a matter of political strategy, I’m not sure that additional investigation is really necessary. Obama, speaking to his usual uncritical audience, stupidly suggested that our troops in Afghanistan are facing a Bastogne-like situation.
Democrats (and their MSM supporters) have a habit of confusing the real military and the real WOT with something they once saw in a war movie. That’s the real story here.
Infidoll on February 22, 2008 at 9:03 PM
It might have been wise for Senator Warner to run his questions to Obama through Rush Limbaugh’s Bo Snerdley, the Official Obama Criticizer.
It’s members only so I can’t give a link, just an excerpt:
The setup:
Bo’s challenge to Obama:
Buy Danish on February 22, 2008 at 9:04 PM
He wasn’t looking to do that at the federal level, Rudy is a Federalist, so am I for the most part.
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 8:44 PM
I was pretty close to buying off on that. He stated his case, and I’ll admit it…I believed him.
He just had a little too much history that made his federalism a hard sell. Too bad, really. My gut tells me, he would have stuck to federalist principles.
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 9:10 PM
A stretch, but at least you’re keeping it humble. I’ve no idea, but it’s possible that Scalia makes a strong impression on Rudy, and that Rudy would look for judges like that.
*Total feel good speculation warning*
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Revision:
…would have looked…
Sorry.
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 9:22 PM
You float a story like this… Can of Worms doesn’t cover it adequately.
The joint Cheifs will question that captain. Then they will review the unit’s log books, message traffic, e-mail, and after action reports. The unit’s CO and staff will be called in, as well.
I’m willing to bet that the Captain will admit that it was false, ir distorted.
And Obama? Intentionally Deceptive. This may be the end of his political career.
Mazztek on February 22, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Allahpundit, “Afghan vets being underequipped”
Veterans have been discharged from the service, retired from military service rather than actively serving in the war zone, unless as “vet” mercenaries.
maverick muse on February 22, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Allah, sometimes it appears your perception of the US is right in line with that of the democrat party.
peacenprosperity on February 22, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Please just call him a liar. When conservatives try to play the polite game we get our heads handed to us.
peacenprosperity on February 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Do you think Obama will look good in is new Comander-In-Chief uniform?
Travis1 on February 22, 2008 at 11:01 PM
peacenprosperity You see, a lie implies that he did something and got caught. Timmy eats cookies before dinner. Mom asks, “Did you have a snack?” Timmy then says, “Nooo.” Meanwhile, Mom sees the crumbs on his shirt and chocolate smear in his mouth.
Obama took that situation, from 5 years ago, provided a bare crumb of a fact, if it was a fact at all, and made it look like Bush took troops and ammo away from our troops and sent them to combat anyway. The situation he referred to was very different.
Today, you have to have your head firmly up your ass to not know anything about the military. And, as a SENATOR, he has or had access to reports from the military to have at least a hazy knowlege of the situation in Afghanistan. And ESPECIALLY if you are running for president, I’d hope you bome up. Now, maybe I’m giving him too much credit. But I would really like to think that he would have some military knowlege, especially when running for president while we are at WAR.
So, when I say “intentionally deceptive”, He knew about the situation, and presented something that would draw you to a total opposite conclusion, so he could bash Bush.
And if I’m polite, it’s because I would like to think I ma far above the Chi Hil Dish libz and dimocraps.
Mazztek on February 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Anyone believe this kind of shit is a fucking moron. I have never ever heard of any US troops that have taken an enemy weapon because of storage of equipment. They might have taken enemy weapons to use for horse play but not because the US military logistic were bad or we lack the money to equip our troops.
We have so much ammo in storage that there is an endless supply of surplus ammo that is given to US civilians for sale so they can, you know make more.
jdun on February 22, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Well, I haven’t heard any sensible suggestions for dealing with this guy.
We’re already saddled with a candidate whose advisors advise him that he shouldn’t be criticizing Obama if he’s the nominee.
If we’re going to be too squeamish to call an idiot an idiot just because he’s OBAMA (genuflect here), then we deserve to lose.
seanrobins on February 22, 2008 at 11:33 PM
It’s always been there:
1. Fair tax
2. Cut taxes
3. Cut Spending
4. Reduce size of government
5. Less Regulation
6. Stop illegal immigration
7. Strong military
8. Never surrender
9. Originalist judges
10.God, Country, Family
If this can’t win against that empty suit, then I’ll just die trying. ‘CAUSE I AIN’T CHANGIN’!
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Whatever you say Janksy Dad
mofo on February 23, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Yea, I still think that Rudy would have been the Best but..
Everyone has an opinion. :)
Go Rudy!
Go Fred!
Go Mitt!
Go McCain!
————–
Mike Huckabee still waiting for the endorsement so that I can add your name to the list.
Chakra Hammer on February 23, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Why did this guy pick Obamma’s people to go to. Maybe he went to others and was rejected.
Maybe he is Black and, like the Africans, feels that Obamma will cure his ills.
davod on February 23, 2008 at 4:00 AM
Bush blew it, they should just keep their mouths shut. By next week it will be more of the same – the GOP looking ridiculous. We just dealt with the whole Grover Norquist immigration open borders debaucle that Michelle made us aware of, we dealt with McCain’s co chair Renzi being indicted. God knows what else has happened over the last year it’s too much to list.
I mean what will it take for people on this side of the aisle to just stop. Stop drawing attention to the mistakes of the Bush admin. The Republican party is dying before our eyes due to the insubordination of those in charge yet people have to continue to challenge and beat a dead horse on most of these issues. John Warner needs to let it go, because it will lead to nothing good for the GOP and only make matters worse come November, like the whole scenerio isn’t as bad as possible already.
Yes, you are right, it doesn’t lead to anything positive for Republicans, period.
Jeez. Standing on principle is one thing, but when the principle has a trap door you kind of know you just might fall thru, just cap it, let it go.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 4:11 AM
Not at the expense of the Party, that’s ridiculous. Stubborness during times like these will get us no where fast.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 4:15 AM
Yes the facts, used by Sen. Obama, are part of war. If you are killing or beating the enemy and you come accros a cache of enemy weapons, save your own for the big fights.
Using their weapons against them is a great psychological weapon. It equates to letting the enemy help you commit suicide.
MSGTAS on February 23, 2008 at 8:21 AM
Not at the expense of the Party, that’s ridiculous. Stubborness during times like these will get us no where fast.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 4:15 AM
Okay, April, for the good of the Party:
1. Fair tax2. Cut taxes
3. Cut Spending
4. Reduce size of government
5. Less Regulation
6. Stop illegal immigration
7. Strong military
8. Never surrender
9. Originalist judges
10.God, Country, Family
Stubborn?
Okay, change me (for the good of the Party):
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 9:48 AM
This all goes back to military spending, the reaso we were so successful in Desert Storm was Reagans build up of the military. Under Clinton we saw a sharp reduction in Military spending. Bush has been playing catch up while at an an extended war in both Iraq and Afghanistan. If Obama gets in office and follows the Democratic playbook, our military will not recover.
Sven on February 23, 2008 at 10:32 AM
1. Unfair tax
2. Increase taxes
3. Increase Spending
4. Increase size of government
5. More Regulation
6. Ignore illegal immigration
7. Weak military
8. Always surrender
9. Internationalist judges
10.No God, No Country, No Family
…is what Obama is offering you.
More of the same from the Dem-o-crats,
change the speed from slow to fast!
April, you go ahead and try to be more of an Obama than Obama. That’s a sure recipe for losing. Americans smell a fake. They’ve got too much experience dealing with very sophisticated propaganda.
You don’t go to a fight preparing to dance on broken glass. You force your opponent to FIGHT YOUR FIGHT. That’s how you win.
The problem with the Party, is that it is scared of its own shadow, which makes it scared of everything else around it, like paper tiger candidates.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Change?
1. Direct deposit your paycheck at the US Treasury;
apply for a stipend to change your misery.
McCain: “This is the America we need to change.”
2. Change?
McCain: “Like take any change left in the pockets of our fellow citizens?”
Obama: We must give it back to help those in need.
McCain: “Who are we to think we’re so mighty to take it from them in the first place? This is the America we need to change.”
3. Change?
Change the 2nd ammendment.
McCain: “No, my friends, the rights of the people to protect themselves from harm and oppression?
This is not the America we want to change.”
This is too easy.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Yeah right – they’re far from scared, they are brazen. Read here, here and here. I could include so many more heres, but I would run out of space to write. And I could also include the links to where people ran to their defense immediately before taking time to breathe.
This constant fool hardy behavior will never win election.
Unfortunately that isn’t what is happening across America, we can only wish they are smelling a fake. They are stupid and have no expereience with dealing with any kind of propaganda, they believe it all!!
And when the GOP and what’s left of it jumps in lockstep behind the powers that be on our side, like Warner etc. or Norquist, (although he isn’t really a government official) we look like we have no experience and believe it all!!
That’s my point. You can accuse me of being more of an Obama than Obama, but those words are meaningless and will get you no where and will never guarantee the GOP continuation in the White House and in Congress.
The GOP loosing crediblity like this makes me so gd mad, I am so sick of the insubordination. And it all could have been prevented, it all didn’t have to happen, it all doesn’t have to continue to happen.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Are we just shouting past each other?
Let’s start over, and it’s probably me because I realize I’m no shining light of intellect.
Help me out:
1 Your “here, here, and here…” references exemplify everything that I’m talking about. Or am I missing something?
IMHO, these aren’t examples of conservative principles in all it’s brazen glory. When I read these pages, I could only describe these leftward leaning compulsions of the “new GOP” one way: Chickenshit.
I couldn’t have made better examples of the GOP being afraid of its own shadow had I written those stories myself.
And, please, as far as accusing you of being more of an Obama than Obama, let me apologize. I meant to illustrate a point and shouldn’t have labeled you personally. My intent, clumsily displayed, was to discuss campaign strategy.
Also, I asked a specific question, (in a round about way)to show me how I need to change. I scratched all my principles in hopes that you would fill in #s 1-10 and give me some idea of what you’re talking about. Granted, my post went on to make other points, but help a guy out here.
So far, all your suggesting is, “the sky is falling”. How about a little “I think I can”, and specifically, a little more “and this is how”?
If you’ll allow, consider this:
The American people are not stupid. Yes, there are stupid people in America, but if you concentrate on that you’ll drive yourself crazy.
What they are is…busy. This is why it’s important to communicate to them in ways that they can digest quickly. The American people are only as stupid as the person trying to communicate to them, or don’t waste their time.
This is an extremely important distinction.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Oh, come on. Do you or Sen. Obama really think we’re sending our troops over without rifles and ammo?
Obama should be laughed at over this comment; instead we’re entertaining the possibility.
eforhan on February 23, 2008 at 5:37 PM
No one is laughing, they are nit picking and discussing and foaming at the mouth all while drawing attention to the story.
Allah is right –
Because somehow somewhere there will be Afghan vets who will come forward next week, mark my word, and the GOP will look like the gang that couldn’t shoot straight, yet again.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 5:46 PM
I agree it’s not something that should be blindly run into.
eforhan on February 23, 2008 at 6:23 PM
My tears, they do not stop.
LimeyGeek on February 23, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Are we shouting past each other?
Let’s start over. It’s probably me, cause I realize I’m no shining light of intellect.
Your “here, here, and here…” references exemplify exactly what I’m talking about.
IMHO, these stories are not examples of unyielding conservative principles in all their brazen glory. I see them as a classic display of the chicken-hearted attempts of the GOP to portray themselves as sympathizers with the Left.
I could not have given a better example of the GOP being scared of their own shadow had I written the stories myself.
Also, as far as accusing you as being more of an Obama than Obama, please let me apologize. I clumsily labeled you personally, when I meant to illustrate a point about campaign strategy. In my haste, I let emotion rule.
I did ask a question (in a round about way) that you did not answer. Granted, I went on to make further points, but help a guy out, huh? I scratched all my principles, and hoped you would fill in #s 1-10 to get a better idea of what your talking about.
All I’m getting from you is “the sky is falling”. How about a little “I think I can”, but more specifically, a little more “and here is how”.
And if you’ll allow, consider this:
The American people are not stupid. Yes, there are stupid people in America, but if you focus on that you’ll drive yourself crazy.
What they are is…busy. They need critical information that they can digest quickly, or don’t waste their time. The American people are as stupid as the quality of the message communicated to them.
This is an extremely important distinction.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 6:39 PM
T
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 6:56 PM
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Are we shouting past each other?
Let’s start over. It’s probably me, cause I realize I’m no shining light of intellect.
Your “here, here, and here…” references exemplify exactly what I’m talking about.
IMHO, these stories are not examples of unyielding conservative principles in all their brazen glory. I see them as a classic display of the chicken-hearted attempts of the GOP to portray themselves as sympathizers with the Left.
I could not have given a better example of the GOP being scared of their own shadow had I written the stories myself.
Also, as far as accusing you as being more of an Obama than Obama, please let me apologize. I clumsily labeled you personally, when I meant to illustrate a point about campaign strategy.
I did ask a question (in a round about way) that you did not answer. Granted, I went on to make further points, but help a guy out, huh? I scratched all my principles, and hoped you would fill in #s 1-10 to get a better idea of what your talking about.
All I’m getting from you is “the sky is falling”. How about a little “I think I can”, but more specifically, a little more “and here is how”.
And if you’ll allow, consider this:
The American people are not stupid. Yes, there are stupid people in America, but if you focus on that you’ll drive yourself crazy.
What they are is…busy. They need critical information that they can digest quickly, or don’t waste their time. The American people are as stupid as the quality of the message communicated to them.
This is an extremely important distinction.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 6:58 PM
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Are we shouting past each other?
Let’s start over. It’s probably me, cause I realize I’m no shining light of intellect.
Your linked references exemplify exactly what I’m talking about.
IMHO, these stories are not examples of unyielding conservative principles in all their brazen glory. I see them as a classic display of the chicken-hearted attempts of the GOP to portray themselves as sympathizers with the Left.
I could not have given a better example of the GOP being scared of their own shadow had I written the stories myself.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 7:03 PM
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Also, as far as accusing you as being more of an Obama than Obama, please let me apologize. I clumsily labeled you personally, when I meant to illustrate a point about campaign strategy.
I did ask a question (in a round about way) that you did not answer. Granted, I went on to make further points, but help a guy out, huh? I scratched all my principles, and hoped you would fill in #s 1-10 to get a better idea of what your talking about.
All I’m getting from you is “the sky is falling”. How about a little “I think I can”, but more specifically, a little more “and here is how”.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 7:04 PM
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
And if you’ll allow, consider this:
The American people are not stupid. Yes, there are stupid people in America, but if you focus on that you’ll drive yourself crazy.
What they are is…busy. They need critical information that they can digest quickly, or don’t waste their time. The American people are as stupid as the quality of the message communicated to them.
This is an extremely important distinction.
Saltysam on February 23, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Sigh, I am sorry, I didn’t mean to shout at you, I am just sick of how America yet again is hoodwinked – meaning Obama, and after reading Michelle’s piece on Grover and then the article about McCain’s co-chair – I just lost it.
Maybe I am driving my self crazy but I am very upset with all that has happened to the GOP over the last 2 years with all the inappropriate behavior on the Republican side when they promised not to fall into that very trap, then the whole immigration mess with Bush.
It’s all too much, I am very upset. Sorry to show my anger, but I am afraid this whole Messiah says story will blow up in our faces by next week.
And we have another upsetting and discouraging dissappointment under our belts and in the eyes of America we look stupid and like we cannot lead.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 7:42 PM
And in addition I am not so estatic about McCain like I was about Bush back in 200 and 2004.
The whole thing has been weird, my mother keeps telling me to take a break from all of it, maybe she’s right. In the beginning my parents were supporting Rudy, they know him and love him, I was not. So that was somewhat weird, in the past, in the 80s and 2000 and 2004 we were always on the same page – up until this point with 2008.
I started out liking Huckabee and then I didn’t as people here on this blog opened my eyes about certain things, then I switched to Fred and that never really happened.
This campaign season is weird and I am feeling it. Being very co-dependent with my parents and family – their choices and indifferences haven’t helped either.
Like I said, we were always on the same page – my siblings included. This time the family is all over the place and I guess that’s weird for me too.
AprilOrit on February 23, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »