Obama: U.S. troops in Afghanistan forced to arm themselves with stolen Taliban weapons; Update: Blackfive comments; Update: More comments; Update: Pure nonsense?
posted at 11:30 pm on February 21, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Ace is skeptical, milblogger Charlie Foxtrot is skeptical, I’m skeptical but resolutely agnostic, partly due to my ignorance of all things military and partly because I’ve heard enough complaints about underequipped troops in Iraq not to scoff at claims like this. Even so — scavenging for weapons from jihadi cavemen? He says a captain told him this personally so it’s conveniently impossible to check, but if it’s true it surely can’t be the only time it’s happened so word must have gotten around. Any milbloggers willing and able to confirm or deny? Are our guys actually duct-taping Kalashnikovs together as a matter of routine practice, or is this probably a case of a unit being caught underarmed in battle somehow and making do with whatever they could find on the fly?
Update: Matt Burden at Blackfive e-mails to say:
Sounds out of touch and likely a guy from IVAW or VoteVets told him that. HOWEVER, SF will carry AK’s because it’s easier to scrounge ammo and it’s a better weapon. One of our authors, Deebow, was on the Paki border, fought the Taliban daily, and had to scrounge mortars from a nearby SF unit. So, it’s not impossible, but it’s unlikely.
And Army Captains don’t command platoons (some Marines do, but not Soldiers)…
Update: Blackfive e-mails again to say this comment at Flopping Aces is “dead on.”
Update: Stuart Koehl at the Standard says it’s boatloads of crap:
Well, captains command companies, not rifle platoons. A rifle platoon is normally commanded by a 2nd lieutenant, sometimes (if short handed) by a senior sergeant. So for starters, Obama betrays a woeful ignorance of military organization and the chain of command. Then he remarks that the platoon was under-strength because 15 of its men had been “sent to Iraq.” Sorry, the Army doesn’t work that way. Platoons are organic units, consisting of three rifle squads, a heavy weapons squad, and a headquarters section. You can’t break it up. It is the smallest building block in the infantry that can conduct fire-and-movement tactics…
The idea that our guys were scrounging weapons and ammo because they were short is ludicrous. How much ammo you carry is done on a “per man” basis in the infantry–each solder carries a “basic load,” which is backed up by reserve supplies at company, battalion, and above. It is possible to run out of ammunition, temporarily, in the midst of an intense firefight…
To the best of my knowledge, no U.S. forces in either Afghanistan or Iraq ever ran out of ammunition for more than a few hours at most. When you consider that we were operating in Afghanistan at the tenuous end of a 8,000 mile supply line, that’s pretty impressive.
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Yeah, the point isn’t which weapon they prefer, the point is whether jihadi cavemen are better equipped than our own guys. I’m guessing no, but tell me if I’m wrong.
Allahpundit on February 22, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Its just not that unusual especially on long range missions to pickup any available weapon and extra ammo to stretch out issue munitions or just because.
Pick it up use it for a while break it and throw it away.
Speakup on February 22, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Does he always do those mid-sentence pauses when he’s making crap up?
29Victor on February 22, 2008 at 1:05 AM
how I wish Fred was the nominee!!!
Ropera on February 22, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Maybe Beauchamp told him that. I think I remember seeing he was an Obama supporter.
doubleplusundead on February 22, 2008 at 1:07 AM
And yes I’m joking about Beauchamp…though that would be funny.
doubleplusundead on February 22, 2008 at 1:09 AM
You are NOT alone.
ihasurnominashun on February 22, 2008 at 1:09 AM
I’ve seen reports of this before. But the reports I saw were anecdotal and certainly didn’t say that soldiers were picking up AK-47s because they didn’t have a military-issued weapon. I just read that some of them prefer the AK to an M4 or an M16A2 (de gustibus non est disputandum, eh?). I call B.S. because he’s turning an anecdotal story about weapon preferences into a systemic issue of soldiers being under-equipped.
Mark Jaquith on February 22, 2008 at 1:10 AM
I just take it as yet another sign our troops our badasses.
Attention terrorist assholes:
If an American soldier runs out of ammo for his gun, then he has no problem stealing your gun, and killing you with it.
Have a nice day.
e-pirate on February 22, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Im guessing Obama ran into a taliban Squad and assumed they were americans and took their word for it.
Yes yes Obama Hussien I be an American Captin in charge of very veyr many troops but they took so many of my freinds to Iraq to teach the dirty… Iraqi dogs that we dont have enough men here.
So please Mr Osama please tell the Americans that we need more weapons to fight the evil Imperial war in Afganistan
Allah.. Ackk…. USA USA USA !!!!
William Amos on February 22, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Even if that were true, all it says to me is our boys and girls are resourceful. Sounds to me like they would be saving tax-payer money. In fact I think that should be a rule- Don’t use our ammo if you can use theirs. Good for them.
Bladerunner1701 on February 22, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Did he plagiarize this anecdote from John Kerry? I could swear Kerry said some typically asinine claim in ‘04.
Topsecretk9 on February 22, 2008 at 1:18 AM
An Army Captain once told me that anti-war politicians stink bad and their mothers dress them funny. Go ask him. What’s his name? Oops, gotta go…
Doug on February 22, 2008 at 1:19 AM
I could swear Kerry said some typically asinine claim in ‘04.
I meant…I could swear Kerry said some typically asinine “captain told him this personally”TYPE claim in ‘04.
Topsecretk9 on February 22, 2008 at 1:19 AM
There are upwards of 52 million AK’s in the world. Some more then 100 million.
Compared to the circulation of our weapons, it is highly probable that our troops would, when the need arose, be able to find and use jihadi weaponry (no matter the fact that you may think they live in caves).
Further, it’s not that Jihadis are better equipped then our Military, rather they have a more plentiful supply of average to better then average weaponry. Where as we have a limited supply of the best (arguably, of course).
PresidenToor on February 22, 2008 at 1:23 AM
*Some say
PresidenToor on February 22, 2008 at 1:23 AM
Yeah, Doug.
I don’t get why ANTI War troops get so much credence and play vs. so many troops who believe in their mission …ir Obama’s “Army Captain” gets play then all the other “Army Captains” should get it too.
McCain camp? Get some “Army Captain’s” stories please
Topsecretk9 on February 22, 2008 at 1:23 AM
Chakra, not sure if you are using this to support Obama. The .50 cal was probably mounted on his vehicle and he picked up an AK only after he ran out of ammo for his weapon according to what I read.
I have spent the last year training soldiers going to Iraq and Afghanistan. They have all been issued weapons (M16A2, M4, M203, 9 mm pistol, or SAW) depending on their job and the weapon associated with it.
I spent 04-05 in Iraq. I had an M16A2 and normally crossed the boarder with a minimum of 7 30 round mags (normally we went with 14). No one in my company ever had to “dig” for a weapon or ammo. Our convoys also had .50 cals and SAWs with plenty of ammo.
Claimsratt on February 22, 2008 at 1:30 AM
B. Hussein Obama is not qualifed to indentify an U. S. Army Captain let alone speak to one. Why would any American want an anti war near communist as Commander in Chief. I guess this validates the picture of Che in the supporters office. He wants to talk to Raul Castro as soon as possible. Probably to get notes on what to do with those who oppose him politically. Only an idiot would support this fakur.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on February 22, 2008 at 1:34 AM
I’m going to attempt to answer this, but I’m the wrong guy, not being a military man. I have friends that are and I like to ask a lot of questions. This particular subject came up a few times.
(Please correct me where and if I’m wrong)
The field situation would probably dictate which weapon is best at the time. In essence, the AK is a reliable, low maintenance firearm. And it’s cartridge is a killer. It’s more of a close range weapon relative to the M16.
I believe the M16 shoots a .223 (is that right?) which is an excellent round for long shots, and is more apt to maim. This was by design, from what I was told, because in more standard battles with uniformed infantry, the object was to tie up the enemy with the wounded, whereas the killed are not tended to like the wounded are.
Okay, go ahead and rip me apart now….
Saltysam on February 22, 2008 at 1:36 AM
I am almost but not ready to call BS.
Would the Army really break up a platoon and send 24 people to Afghanistan and 15 to Iraq?
The Air Force did send some of us TDY while the rest of the squadron stayed home (say 9 jets/support to Iceland for 30 days) or maybe 6 jets/support to Red Flag for a week or so.
But break up a platoon for a long-term deployment? I doubt it.
Why would they do that?
More on point….
In basic, as part of M-16 weapons training, we were taught that if the base was over-run destroy or sabotage all of the weapons we could before we evaded capture (aka bend a barrel etc) so they do not fall into enemy’s hands for this exact reason.
If I was in a fight and out of ammo, I may pick up an AK, however I would never pick one up as my primary weapon just because I found it and like it better.
Also I suspect the Ammo supply for a US Army M-16 is easier to get then some AK ammo.
That said I couldn’t speak for the Army.
F15Mech on February 22, 2008 at 1:39 AM
In Afghanistan, don’t we have a lot of small, autonomous special forces groups that are out on their own for long periods of time, blending with the locals and making due? Maybe they pick up some stuff on occasion. I doubt even that, though.
DaveS on February 22, 2008 at 1:40 AM
Well, Obama scavenges other words from other people’s speeches to use as his own…
Montana on February 22, 2008 at 1:44 AM
The campaign staff will straighten all of this crap out with clarifications as soon they can. The Messiah did not look to confident when he was choosing his words very carefully and looking like a deer in headlights. That is just what we need a commander/deer in chief/headlights!
d1carter on February 22, 2008 at 1:47 AM
He’s full of shit. Even when talking about platoon organization – that’s just not the way it works. There’s no way in hell any unit is going to tear apart a platoon and send part of it to Afghanistan and part of it to Iraq. The whole spiel from start to finish is utter nonsense.
c6gunner on February 22, 2008 at 1:50 AM
Bingo that is what first got my BS meter running.
F15Mech on February 22, 2008 at 1:53 AM
No, Kerry said, “Our troops raped, tortured in the fashion of Jengis Kahn….”
Tim Burton on February 22, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Jedi mind trick.
soundingboard on February 22, 2008 at 2:07 AM
More CNN questioner plants
Topsecretk9 on February 22, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Really, really?
2Tru2Tru on February 22, 2008 at 2:14 AM
An Army captain commands a (significantly larger) Company, not a rifle platoon.
aquaviva on February 22, 2008 at 2:29 AM
Rock music thru their loudspeakers.
F15Mech on February 22, 2008 at 2:30 AM
Yeah, and I saw God listening to Black Sabbath @ 78 RPM in reverse :)
Kini on February 22, 2008 at 2:37 AM
Also, our troops are forced to have to steal sheep from poor farmers and duct tape them to their bodies for protection because they don’t have any body armor due to John McCain.
A Colonel told that to me, his code name was Agent Orange, yeah, Agent Orange.
benrand on February 22, 2008 at 2:42 AM
I just wrote about this on my site. My husband is a MSG (Master Sergeant) in the U.S. Army. He served a year in Operation Iraqi Freedom and is just coming home this weekend from Baghdad after working with the MNF-I staff on creating policy for Religious Leader Engagement in the war.
But I digress.
I was furious when I heard Obama spread this blatant lie about the state of the troops and their equipment, because it’s a political statement about the President and a misrepresentation of reality. I e-mailed hubby a transcript of Obama’s comments and he wrote me back this:
Even non-miitary know Obama’s statements are absurd.
Amy Proctor on February 22, 2008 at 2:45 AM
This is pure BullShit and you can take it to the bank. Any morons that believe this kind of trash that our troops is unequipped needs to learn some critical thinking skills.
jdun on February 22, 2008 at 2:48 AM
Are you sure it wasn’t Colonel Mustard? @¿@
Kini on February 22, 2008 at 2:50 AM
I’ve heard of PMC’s carrying some AK mags with them, or some actually using a Arsenal RK104’s but preferring M4/AR15s.
All I’ve heard of from friends and fellow airsofters that have gone and returned are dudes buying HK416s or the piston driven DPMSs with their own dough. Only complaint I’ve heard about equipment shortages were some beat up, worn out M16A2s that were well past their prime.
I call major bullsh!t.
liquidflorian on February 22, 2008 at 2:54 AM
Not much more to be said-Thanks Amy.
labrat on February 22, 2008 at 2:54 AM
To you, your husband and your family. Thank You!
Kini on February 22, 2008 at 3:00 AM
HK416 is a piece of shit. Heavier and inaccurate compare to the standard AR. The only people that loves HK are the game kiddies and HK fanboys.
Let me give you the fact. Only two AR15(M16) manufacture are use by the US military, Colt and FN. That’s it. No HK no DPMS no Bushmaster. Just Colt and FN.
jdun on February 22, 2008 at 3:02 AM
Amy, what Kini said. Great blog BTW.
F15Mech on February 22, 2008 at 3:07 AM
Without his precious teleprompter, he’s like Bush with a tan.
Chuck Schick on February 22, 2008 at 3:11 AM
I fired the M-16 A2 in the 90s and even in perfect conditions it jammed … a lot. In the desert it probably jams like crazy. All the AR family of weapons are made delicate and tempermental, a little dirt near the bolt and your done. Also if you take the safety off pull back the bolt and slap the butt hard enough the damn thing will go off.
AKs are popular because they are simple, rugged and reliable. That’s why bangers prefer them to cheaper SKS for example, rugers, and especially the overpriced ARs. Also the .223 round doesn’t hit like an AK which I once heard was similar in ballistic capability to the 30-30. Just my two cents.
Rob Taylor on February 22, 2008 at 3:12 AM
Ditto
Kini on February 22, 2008 at 3:22 AM
The consensus is that he’s FOS. His staff seems more competent than averagee. But, since they lack a fully developed concept of truth, they’ll probably have that usual Democrat arrogance. They’ll think their brains will give them an easy win against the redneck morons. And if the NYT etc. keep at it more conservatives will more quickly be resigned to McCain. BHO’s willingness to lie about the troops will drive middle America away from him. He’ probably only an 8 to 5 favorite at the moment.
snaggletoothie on February 22, 2008 at 3:30 AM
Was anyone else as appalled as I was? I think the standard with Dems should be if it sounds too bad to be true it probably is…
We need to find out what soldier is spreading this stuff and make an honest man of him. Sounds like a Jesse MacBeth to me.
Amy Proctor on February 22, 2008 at 3:52 AM
I doubt you will find him in the US Army. Hell I will be surprised if you find him in the entire DOD.
F15Mech on February 22, 2008 at 5:05 AM
I can’t believe that anyone is taking seriously Hussein’s lies. See, that’s what we’re going to get all the time from this Muslim. He is an empty suit, America hater, full of crap.
Indy Conservative on February 22, 2008 at 5:26 AM
HK MP5-N MP5SD
The Navy thinks that its just fine.
I’d like to have a PSG1A1, a little to expensive though. :(
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 5:29 AM
Our guys aren’t dumb. The AK and the M-16 sound different. To liberals that means nothing, how would they know? You often see Special forces armed with AKs. The enemy will key in on the sound of the M-16 as they see the sound of the AK as friendly. So you can confuse the enemy by changing the weapon. Some of the video footage shown on TV will illustrate this. The fact that our soldiers would have AKs means nothing.
It’s also likely true that when you deploy with troops from another country, you may choose to use the weapon of the other country(Afghanistan) because they have their own ammo and supply, whereas resupply may be impossible from US sources. Remember the Afghanis are our friends and they for the most part use Aks.
The command structure and deployment crap sounds like whole cloth Obama made up lies. But the media won’t report, they are off busily fabricated their favorite sex stories about Republicans.
By and large, I call BS and lies.
tarpon on February 22, 2008 at 5:35 AM
.30-06 Springfield ;) 7.62×63mm
Even more powerful than the 7.62×54R
7.62×54R
I still, like the standard .308 Winchester.. or 7.62×51mm NATO
Chakra Hammer on February 22, 2008 at 5:49 AM
Mav’s gonna clean his clock in this area…but will the robots listen.
LtE126 on February 22, 2008 at 6:03 AM
Oh you can tell the first B.O./McPain debate is going to be absolutely memorable. Not along the lines of the Reagan/Carter “There you go again!” debate, but still memorable in its own right.
pilamaye on February 22, 2008 at 6:09 AM
the HK had less than half of the stoppages of the M4 in the last shootoff. The XM-8 and the SCAR both beat the HK and they ALL beat the pants off the M4. There is no excuse for wasting all those BILLIONS of dollars to develop the XM-8 and then not fielding it… esp when it had 1/4 (200ish) the stoppages of the M4 (880) in the latest “dust endurance” test. It just shows me the bureaucracy is endless…
I have gone to OIF twice, this story sound like BS or more likely “taken out of context”… NOT surprising for someone with no experience in anything military (and probably a deep liberal loathing of the military).
BadBrad on February 22, 2008 at 6:52 AM
So he heard this from an Army Captain? When? Is he aware that he is a member of the US Senate and this should have been dealt with when he “heard” about it? What has he done about it or did he feel that it would be best to hold onto that info until a debate?
Pam on February 22, 2008 at 6:59 AM
If our troops are ever under supplied it has to do with the dangerous games in which the Democrats use them, and this very serious war that the Democrats also try to use in order to weaken troop support while getting themselves votes. This clown wouldn’t know one end of a rifle from another, and an AK47 from an M16. The closest he’s been to anything military are the terrorist training camps in Indonesia.
Hening on February 22, 2008 at 7:00 AM
Stephen Spruiell had this comment from David Axelrod :
AXELROD: That was a discussion that a captain in the military had with our staff, and he asked that that be passed along to Senator Obama.
So it wan’t Obama that the person spoke to? He decided to speak with the staff about something this important?
Pam on February 22, 2008 at 7:09 AM
Axelrod’s from Chicago…he’s used to covering up for moronic politicians. He’s gonna have his hands full with this one.
LtE126 on February 22, 2008 at 7:16 AM
How did Ms. South Carolina get up on that stage?
Alden Pyle on February 22, 2008 at 7:31 AM
Like those “buffers” that Daley is so fond of? :)
Pam on February 22, 2008 at 7:32 AM
Uhhh, Army doesn’t have enough money??? Doesn’t CONGRESS pass the budget???
These people need and rely on an ignorant public! An informed and educated people is their greatest fear!
JellyToast on February 22, 2008 at 7:40 AM
This guy isn’t really going to end up in the White House … is he ???
I swear to God, as I was watching that I was honestly missing … John Kerry.
On the plus side, is there anybody left who still thinks John McCain is just as bad as this putz?
Professor Blather on February 22, 2008 at 8:03 AM
It’s not even that they wouldn’t…the Army CAN’T split up a platoon for deployment to different theatres. While we in the Air Force have the capability to deploy individuals where they’re needed, the Army doesn’t have a mechanism for deploying less than company-sized units to a theatre…and everyone in that company who can deploy, deploys to the same place.
Back in 2003 I had to coordinate In-Lieu-Of deployments of ANG personnel for Army convy duties for this very reason.
James on February 22, 2008 at 8:04 AM
Good military opinion/debunking of this claim
scottm on February 22, 2008 at 8:08 AM
This Liberal comment about how the Military is under supplied,or short of weapons is typical!
The truth to really know is how Liberal democrats allowed
United States Military,under Commander-in-Chief Bill Clinton
to under supply,low ammunition,denied armour support at black Hawk Down,the famous Miltary lefts “Meals on Wheels”
to support the UN Mandate to secure the food that Samolis war lords were stealing!
So,before Obama says Liberals could do better than Republicans on the Military,under Liberals the Military
had casualtys for distributing food,or protection of!
So,Obama should know that under Republicans,the Military
has had Gulf 1,Gulf2,and the liberation of Irag,and that is
3 wars,and before I forget Afhganistan,make that 4!
And thats under a Republican administration!
canopfor on February 22, 2008 at 8:08 AM
Boy, without the teleprompters, this guy is a terrible speaker. Guess it won’t really matter because Johnny boy isn’t anywhere near eloquent.
stenwin77 on February 22, 2008 at 8:31 AM
If there is anybody left, they are not paying attention to the threat of an Obama White House.
Look for the speed limit to be lowered to 50 MPH nationwide to ease “global warming”.
carbon_footprint on February 22, 2008 at 8:33 AM
So did you call him? Did the Major have any comments?
Mr Tips on February 22, 2008 at 8:36 AM
Alright . . . anybody that believes this moron go directly to the nearest mental health clinic.
Good God we’re in deep trouble.
rplat on February 22, 2008 at 8:37 AM
Hey Pam, ever see this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ashM23pslk
Obama’s Godfather. This is what we’ll get if we stay home on Nov. 4
“Buffers, yeah…the family has alotta of buffers”
LtE126 on February 22, 2008 at 8:42 AM
My husband, an Infantry NCO, served in Afghanistan in Paktika Province (on the Pakistan border) in 2004-2005.
His response to this?
“What a bunch of ^%#^%$# BS”.
To those of you who want to stay home in November – you want to leave our troops in the hands of idiots like this while they fight a war??????
Our troops don’t give up without a fight, yet that’s exactly what you are planning on doing.
Tink on February 22, 2008 at 8:49 AM
He’s right on the money.
bnelson44 on February 22, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Sounds like Obama got dragged into a 40-year old debate on military weapons that he has absolutely no clue about. Some people feel very strongly about the inadequacy of the NATO 5.56 mm round. There are some people out there that think we should still be carrying M14s. Just to make a quick point on why we use the weapons we do, I’ll cut a quote from above.
Think about the size of a 5.56 30-round magazine versus a 7.62 30-round bananna mag. Think of the difference in weight between the two. Now multiply it by 14. Is there really that much of an advantage in adding that ammout of bulk and weight to soldiers already overloaded with body armor?
BohicaTwentyTwo on February 22, 2008 at 8:56 AM
He starts out saying that “YO” a platoon went to AFG with less men than normal. OK? Then that “as a consequence” they don’t have enough ammo, etc? How does that make any sense?
Then he states that they began to capture Taliban weapons “because” they were easier to get. I think the dead Taliban who reluctantly turned them over might disagree.
While the AK-47 is the ubiquitous weapon for bad guys, it is not the only weapon in the theater. Many others use NATO ammmo.
So is it illogical to salvage the ammo?
Agrippa2k on February 22, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Next up, Sen Obama demonstrates his talent of mixing plagerism with slanders of the military:
“That captain gave me a hat. I have that hat to this day.”
scatbug on February 22, 2008 at 9:01 AM
Every man is issued his own rifle, every man who is pistol qualified can (at least when I was in) buy his own pistol, if one is not issued, and keep it in the armory while Stateside and have it transported into theater with him.
The idea that Marines or soldiers are weaponless and scrounging rifles from the taliban is insane. I spent a year in Afghanistan and most of the AK’s and other weapons we found or were “turned in” were junk. Then there is the fact that the the AK uses a 7.62 Nato round and the M-16/M-4 use 5.56. Unless you’re an M60 machine gunner, you’re not going to have easy and unlimited access to 7.62 Nato rounds.
Barry is either lying or being lied to by his “Army Captain”.
srhoades on February 22, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Oh puhleese. Inevitably there’ll be incidents of this, but they’ll be rare. Otherwise, the condition would be widely known and Barry-O wouldn’t be the one breaking the news to us just in time for his campaign.
petefrt on February 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Bravo Tink . . . some of these people want to give up even before the fight.
rplat on February 22, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Wait! There’s more!
Press release from the Obama campaign:
“My fellow Americans. We have longed dreamed of a day when the military would need to hold a bake sale to buy its weapons. That day is now upon us, and we all must pitch in to help arm our needy troops. Obama ‘08 offices will be accepting baked items through Sunday with a nation-wide sale to be held next week. (Out of sensitivity to food allergies, please refrain from using nuts.)”
scatbug on February 22, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Oh and by the way, the company I was working for was under equiped. You know where we (the contractors) ended up getting most of our equipment? From the military. DOD cares more about its people than DOS does its.
srhoades on February 22, 2008 at 9:20 AM
The politics of change! I’ll change some weird story about soldiers picking up a loaded weapon from their dead enemy into a lie about the President not committing enough resources to equip our military correctly.
Jaibones on February 22, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Hey Mr. Obama do you even know what end of the tube the round comes out
thmcbb on February 22, 2008 at 9:51 AM
While we are looking for the soldier who told that story, see if someone can find the stats on increased hate crimes on Hispanics.
Sue on February 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Obama has completely missed the point.
…
The point is, 40 years of the M16 are enough. It’s time to equip our troops with a modern and efficient primary weapon. We don’t want a computer. We don’t want a gadget that has wires coming out of it. We want a modern weapon that is compact like the AK, shoots straight like the M16, delivers killing power like the AK, is tough yet very light even with lots of ammo, and doesn’t jam like the AK. The problem has never been the science, engineering, or the manufacturing. The problem has been the Defense Department trying to “transform” the military by building space-age weapons that talk to computer networks, instead of building 21st century weapons that do one thing and do it right: “shoot good.” If we could solve this one problem our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq would be winning faster and by bigger margins.
indythinker on February 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Indeed. Did this “captain” faint while talking to Barack O’Jesus?
During WWII on at least one occasion German spies in US uniforms were shot after referring to a “platoon” of US cavalry. It seems that since all US cavalry units were referred to as troops, not as squads or platoons, and US soldiers knew better than to call them platoons or squads, the jig was up and the German spies were dispatched to Valhala.
Akzed on February 22, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Yeah. Probably that.
As to the question, are terrorist fighters better equipped than US soldiers? Yes, and No.
Yes, if we just compare AK47 vs. M16. It would be foolish not to take advantage of the additional resources and ‘firepower’ one finds lying on the battlefield.
No, if we compare typical heavier weapons capabilities such as automatic weapons, mortars, etc. We also have better body armor, communications, and mobility.
Lawrence on February 22, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Here ya go; from headlines(wink)
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-barricade22feb22,0,2198361.story
a capella on February 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Not to be facetious, but anyone who plays shooter video games understands this strategy – when you kill an enemy, you take the leftover ammo. The Blackfive commenter really drives home the point – if you just killed a bunch of Taliban and have their leftover ammo sitting right in front of you, why are you going to wait to be resupplied? The Taliban ammo is right there.
There may be other indicators that Afghanistan troops are undersupplied, but it seems like this point about being forced to resort to using Taliban ammo isn’t the best way to make that case.
Let’s hope this doesn’t become an Obama campaign meme.
Enrique on February 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Correspondence with Bill Roggio. I get the impression from reading his site that he knows what he’s talking about regarding The Long War. Quoted with permission:
Bill,
Please see this link http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/21/obama-us-troops-in-afghanistan-forced-to-arm-themselves-with-stolen-taliban-weapons/ – have you heard that our troops in Afg. are routinely scavenging Taliban weapons due to lack of supplies? Barack O’Jesus said they are.
Thanks,
John,
That is just insane. I have neither seen nor heard of anything like this….
Best,
Bill
Akzed on February 22, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Obama has taken a small kernel, such as our guys using AKs for tactical reasons on occasion, and flipped it into a failure to provide them adequate resources. Sly and inaccurate, but good enough for a soundbyte. I hope McCain takes advantage of this golden opportunity to contrast the differences in ability to lead the military. This should not be allowed to disappear into the black memeory hole.
a capella on February 22, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Well, John Kerry has endorsed him.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on February 22, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Dude, Bush has made some mistakes, but please don’t put him on the level of a 0.33 term Senator who has never served anyone higher than himself.
Bush has a mixed track record on conservative issues. He sucks on Amnesty and almost put a crony in the courts, but otherwise Roberts and Alito have been solid, and Bush is the only man in the nation who had enough Malkins to tell the Democrats to go screw when the going got tough.
George W. Busg is infinitely better than Barack Obama in every way that matters.
BKennedy on February 22, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I have much more experience with the AK style rifles (AKM, AK47, AK74, Kalashnikov Sporter). My brother was in Viet Nam for two tours, and he gets very upset when you even mention an M16. So, I have less experience with them.
But, one thing is for sure, the AK is utterly dependable. I have one that I have fired thousands of rounds through and NEVER had a single jam. The few times I have fired AR15’s, I have had a number of jams.
The AR is more accurate for sure, but dependability trumps accuracy. My brother remembers having to get out his cleaning rod in the middle of a firefight because the extractor ripped through the brass, and the cleaning rod was the only way to get the empty out.
On my 20″ barrel AK, I can hit cans at 100 yards pretty consistantly. Also the feel of the AK’s action is kind of springy when fired, so it is a good recoil that lets you get back on target quick. They are great for pig hunting in 7.62 X 39. If a group of pigs comes out, only the first shot is standing still. The rest are wild running shots, and the AK is the ticket.
saiga on February 22, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Here ya go; from headlines(wink)
I need to read up on gangs. Avenues? Cypress Park? I had to google. Hmmm…I understand the wink now.
Sue on February 22, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Bottom line: UNFIT to be commander in chief.
JustTruth101 on February 22, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I know we hear an unending stream of complaints from our son about his army-issue weapon. He’s had the chance to fire both AKs and kalishnikovs and likes them better.
Chances are, the observations of most of the people here – that our troops will pick up what they can, use it, break it and throw it away. Humiliate your enemy by using their weapons against them.
Mommynator on February 22, 2008 at 10:27 AM
IMPROVISE
tomas on February 22, 2008 at 10:31 AM
I have fired lots of types of guns over the past 40 years, and the AK is by far the most fun. I would buy 1000 round cases of Russian ammo for $89.00 at the gun shows, then spend all afternoon at the National Forest banging away. The AK would get so hot That I would have to put it down in the shade and let it cool off before I would go again.
More fun than a barrel of Monkeys.
saiga on February 22, 2008 at 10:34 AM
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