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I think the fact that these mass shootings don’t happen at gun shows or in police stations is telling. All of the recent mall shootings I am aware of were in no weapons allowed malls, although all of those have since quietly removed their voluntarily posted no weapons signs. The AP recently posted a list of school shootings in the last 10 years in which the three instances where armed citizens stopped the shooter they merely noted as citizens “tackled” or “stopped” the shooter. Citizens use firearms between 1.5 and 2.7 million times in any given year to stop crimes and discharge their firearms in only about 20% of the cases. They only kill the bad guy about 1% of the time, not because they are bad shots (they have a higher hit ratio than the police) but because they show great restraint and only shoot to end the threat and then stop and call the authorities to clean up the mess. College students, teachers, administrators and school visitors need to retain their right to self defense within the schools.

erode or do away with our 2nd Amendment rights;

Already eroded. You need to obtain a permit to carry concealed. Did not need to in the past.

Regarding the ‘do away’; you can’t even give up an inalienable right.

In most states, getting a concealed carry permit is a relatively arduous process

What about infringed do law makers not understand?

I’m not really keen on the idea of anyone under the age of 18 having a weapon,

Two things

1) my 11 year old son has his own .410 shotgun and a .22 rifle. His sister gets hers this year. Also, my father carried a .22 rifle to school in fourth grade (in the snow and uphill both ways)

2) It’s not a weapon, it’s a tool.

I think the deterrent value comes into play in different categories of crime — robbery, rape, assaults and such.

Research Aurora and Brodie and find the wild west wasn’t so wild. Bad guys faced with the potential of sudden death are pretty tame.

They do this, I’ll get a concealed permit. Presently, I have a number of rifles and shotguns, but I’ll buy a pistol if I can carry it to work.

You can take it along now if you leave it in the car. Remove the magazine and place it in the glove box. Better to have it close than not around. Personally, I might lean toward ignoring a policy or law if it can help keep me and my family alive.

Class A, license to carry concealed, high capacity, for any lawful purpose. I’ve had it, and my model 1911, since the day I was legally eligible. Quite a feat here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

You my friend, deserve a medal for achieving this in Massachussets.

Maybe we will reclaim our right to defend ourselves after all.

We have it. Need to exercise it. Too many rely on the police to do it for them.

“Gun free zones” are really self defense free zones

One of the reasons (lesser) we home school our kids. They receive their education in a protected zone.

No one has ever broken into one of those beautiful homes…I wonder why?

right2bright on February 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Because they dont want a shot gun up their arse, thats why! : )

Whenever one of these things has happened it has been in a “gun free” zone almost exclusively. Even mental cases seem to have figured out that the best place to do their thing is to go where no one can shoot back. Passing this legislation would be a great step in the right direction.

Make it an ongoing process. Then all we need is some unbiased reporting when it starts working : )

America1st on February 19, 2008 at 12:21 PM

Buy a lottery ticket. :)

Just don’t be loading up the hollow point rounds people. They actually talk about that in the class – use plain jane munitions when carrying, so you don’t get branded as a zealot/freak looking to shoot someone when you actually have to. The socialist/liberal jurors here in Pima County would love to have you do some time in Florence, AZ for protecting yourself.

I’m kind of surprised you’re telling people to carry FMJs in a school environment. The FMJ handgun round is about the worst possible thing – it’s less likely to stop the assailant and more likely to overpenetrate the target and strike an innocent, or pass through walls and strike an innocent, than just about anything else.

And if a DA wants to scare people because you used MagSafes and they’s SCARY, your local PD should be able to refer you to an expert witness who will put that DA’s ass in a sling in about 30 seconds flat.

I literally cannot understand how you could expect people who oppose self-defense would suddenly support it based on ammunition type.

To sum up, you WILL be criticized on your ammo choice. If you choose FMJs, it will be HARDER to defend yourself in court because you chose the less effective and more dangerous choice.

I don’t mean to be too personally critical of you, Skinner, I just think this is REALLY bad advice.

Opponents say police officers urgently responding to a school shooting might have difficulty distinguishing innocent permit-holders from the gunman.

My friend’s rather snarky response:

Lame. Although, I suppose it’s true. Without the permit holders, the shooter will be easily identified as the one not lying dead on the floor.

I’m all for allowing it…it’s better than me either 1) illegally carrying or 2) plotting my escape route in every classroom I enter…

That being said, I would even be supportive of a more stringent process for CCW in what are currently “Gun Free Zones.”

Make it an ongoing process. Then all we need is some unbiased reporting when it starts working : )

It was no big deal. I had a motorcycle and the church was on the way home. I could hunt till 10:30, and be in Sunday school by 11:00. Because I was on a motorcycle, I had to bring my shotgun to class so it wouldn’t get stolen. I left all the doves or ducks at my bike, though. That would have been too disrupting.

It should be clear now that declaring schools “gun free zones” does not make them gun free zones. It makes them killing fields if a mad gunman enters them and opens fire. BMW made a similar point last week concerning the slaughter at the Kirkwood…..

(via Hot Air) The Arizona Legislature is giving consideration to a proposal that would allow licensed concealed carry permit holders to bring their guns to K-12 schools, community colleges and universities.
I think the prospect of K-12 is a little shoc…

The classrooms where I’ve taught (and teach) on the LSU campus would not be safe in the event of an attack by a crazy shooter. Last semester, my lecture classroom doors opened to the hall (i.e., couldn’t be blocked to keep them from opening), locked only from the outside (with a key that I don’t have), cannot be tied together to prevent opening (handled on only one), and the doors have windows in them. Interior classroom so no way to escape through windows.

My lab classroom has bars on the windows so if the doors were blocked, we’d be fish in a barrel.

I support concealed carry on campus, although I probably wouldn’t choose to do so.

Ding. Ding! DING!! We have a winner. And these ‘gun free zones’ are precisely why and where these gun murdering manics like to mass murder these fish in a barrel defenseless victims.

It is not that you have to have someone packing, to stop the shootings, it is the possibility that someone may return fire that will discourage these mass shootings.

Actually, it’s both.

There are crazy people who don’t care that they’ll go out in a blaze of glory. The only way to deal with them is to grant their wish as quickly as possible, minimizing the number of innocent lives they can take in the process.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are people who think they’ll be able to commit mass murder and get away with it. Doing away with Victim Disarmament Zones will definitely discourage them.

Most are a mix of the two. To the extent they can be deterred, they will. But either way, the damage they can cause will be minimized by allowing CCW permit holders to do what they’ve demonstrated they’re able to do.

I think concealed carry at schools is worth considering.

Can I ask what other parts of the CONSTITUTION you consider worth considering? Are you also in favor of maybe limiting illegal searches and giving students due process?

“Gun free zones” are really self defense free zones. It is not that you have to have someone packing, to stop the shootings, it is the possibility that someone may return fire that will discourage these mass shootings.

Just don’t be loading up the hollow point rounds people. They actually talk about that in the class – use plain jane munitions when carrying, so you don’t get branded as a zealot/freak looking to shoot someone when you actually have to. The socialist/liberal jurors here in Pima County would love to have you do some time in Florence, AZ for protecting yourself.

This is the first legislation in a long time I’m proud of in this state (excluding Prop 200 – but we know everyone has fought that tooth-and-nail to actually having to enforce the will of the people, but I digress).

A defining feature of these people — whether the Columbine killers, or the Virginia Tech guy, or the NIU guy — is that they are severely mentally disturbed and they commit their atrocities knowing full well they won’t survive. I think the NIU and VA Tech guys killed themselves. The Columbine killers I think were “suicide by cop” cases.

True, but if a staff member had a gun they could have taken those boys down before they killed so many, and that’s the point.

I work in a high school, and the possiblity of something similar is a daily reality for me. We have an SRO on campus at all times, but it takes a couple of minutes to get from the office to my classroom out in the hinterlands. You can kill a lot of people in a couple of minutes.

Here’s the procedure…..the instructor is to go out into the hallway (where the shooter might be) to lock the door to the classroom from the outside. The instructor is then to close the door and move the students away from the door all the while attempting to be as silent as possible. I told my students that if I’m shot to move my dead a$$ away from the door and lock themselves in. Great plan, eh?