Video: Bill Clinton gets red-faced at pro-lifers
posted at 1:05 pm on February 18, 2008 by Bryan
Another day, another headline for Bill Clinton that overshadows whatever Hillary Clinton is up to today. This one has Bill Clinton lashing out from the stage at pro-lifers at Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH while Hillary continues to look tired in Texas. Ohio is one of the two must-win states for Hillary, so Bill is there campaigning on her behalf. The pro-lifers in the crowd held up signs and heckled, so Bill accused them of wanting to jail women and doctors. Presumably, then, since Clinton was pro-life himself until the late 1980s, he wanted to jail women and abortion doctors too? Tell the truth, Bill.
Perhaps Bill also ought to tell the truth about why he vetoed the ban on partial birth abortion, twice, despite the fact it that it enjoyed majority support: Because his party depends on Planned Parenthood, NOW, NARAL et al for support, and if they oppose a policy, the Democrats as a party fall in line. Tell the truth, Bill, for the first time in your life.
There was a time when Clinton’s temper may have persuaded voters that he was passionate about issues, but I think that time has long passed. Now he just appears to be losing his cool in the face of heckling while he takes the spotlight off his co-candidate (and reminds voters that a vote for her is a vote for him, for good and ill depending on what you think of him).










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He mentions hot air twice. Subliminal grudge surfacing?
Les in NC on February 18, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Sorry to jump in but the deval/Obama backlash has started
on CNN
William Amos on February 18, 2008 at 1:14 PM
I don’t know, Bryan…that crowd of Dembots sure still seems to like him.
flipflop on February 18, 2008 at 1:16 PM
When they try to seat FL and MI plus steal the supers, they’ll break the party in half. Couldn’t happen to nicer folks.
Les in NC on February 18, 2008 at 1:20 PM
He doesn’t feel the pain of the unborn.
JammieWearingFool on February 18, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Somebody’s gonna cause Bill to pop an artery before this election is over.
Dusty on February 18, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I think he subconsciously wants Hillary to lose. He can’t stand to be upstaged and she would certainly do that before she dumps him.
flytier on February 18, 2008 at 1:25 PM
He’s just losing it because he had to lockup the Clenis for the campaign.
ronsfi on February 18, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Hey, let Bubba Billy keep digging a hole with that big fat mouth of his. Not only does Shillary lose about 6 percentage points every time Bubba Billy’s tongue starts wagging, but every single time he blows a gasket, it is opening more eyes, a lot of them Democrats, and having people finally, at long last, see what kind of blowhard bully he really is.
Now try to imagine him sitting quietly in the White House as “First Gentlemen.”, while he lets Shillary be Commanderess in Chief.
Yeah, I have a hard time imagining it as well.
Because he won’t be sitting quiet once he is back in The White House.
And it won’t be Shillary solely calling the shots either.
pilamaye on February 18, 2008 at 1:26 PM
It’s kinda inevitable at a rally, but it doesn’t seem to translate well over the airwaves.
geckomon on February 18, 2008 at 1:26 PM
I’m glad my parents were pro-life when they had me. That’s all I have to say.
fourstringfuror on February 18, 2008 at 1:26 PM
What’s he doing there in the first place?
bnelson44 on February 18, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Isn’t he the dude who must have said “it’s for the children” about seventy kazillion times during his own campaigns and subsequent presidential terms?
Oh, I get it. He’s only looking out for them after they have exited the womb.
fogw on February 18, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Kind of weird he refers to them as ‘mothers’…
askheaves on February 18, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Meh, we don’t have a problem with him getting red-faced at Truthers.
spmat on February 18, 2008 at 1:30 PM
So yeah to me that’s like Code Pink jumping in on a Army rally. They served up softballs for Billy Jeff to pander to his audience… yay?
Dash on February 18, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Boy, she sure knows how to control him.
No more scandals from Billy Jeff?
jukin on February 18, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Hot Air!
Ropera on February 18, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Now Bryan, that’s twice you asked BJ to “tell the truth”. You’re kidding, right?
labrat on February 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM
The upside of all this is the more often this happens, the greater the chance of us seeing him clutch his chest and give us a Fred Sanford “Wheezy, I’m comin’ home!” moment.
Alden Pyle on February 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM
I don’t see Pro-Life supporters being equated to Truthers and Code Pinkers. From a far away, non-scrutinizing, blurry perception any group can look and sound similar. The pro-life, anti abortion premise is the difference.
geckomon on February 18, 2008 at 1:38 PM
naw, I think he was just referring to the foaming at the mouth type pro-lifers who crash rallies and such.
crr6 on February 18, 2008 at 1:38 PM
I think it’s great that he (and the Seahag) are being shown for what they are now, rather than them being able to slither into the White House again.
He was like this throughout the ’90′s, but either the media covered for him then, or there was no dissenting opinion allowed.
Neither of them had much practice before this at handling opposing opinions. Their appearances were choreographed and scripted with sycophants in the audience, or the opposition was destroyed with the help of a willing drive-by media.
91Veteran on February 18, 2008 at 1:41 PM
I’m pro-life and I want to jail women and “doctors” (if by “doctors” you mean ruthless mercenaries).
Darth Executor on February 18, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Videos like this are why Clinton cannot win in the general. Show that to any social conservative and s/he’d pledge to never vote for her.
AbaddonsReign on February 18, 2008 at 1:43 PM
I must enlighten you guys with some info. I was talking to a die hard Bill clinton fan the other day, who cannot wait to vote for Hillary. Actually, what she said was, “I’m voting for Bill!” People like that will NEVER see Bill clinton for the scum he really is. Their eyes will never be opened. They have no reasoning power. Case in point: I ask this same person, “Does it not bother you that Bill cheated on his wife with Monica Lewenski? What about all of the accusations of sexual assault that Bill was accused of?” Does this not give you pause? She responded: “Oh, every president since George Washington has had affairs, they all do it”. She completely ommited the whole question, especially the sexual assault alligations, not to mention that it was perfectly o.k. with her that he had no respect for his wife. Give it up folks, liberalism is a sickness of the mind that gets worse as time goes by.
kcd on February 18, 2008 at 1:47 PM
I have found from my experiance that males who are very pro choice either strongly identify with females… not that there is anything wrong with that. Or else they see abortion as something they really, really need or needed at one point in order to help them out of a bad situation where they did not want to take personal responsibility.
The whole what she does with her body is none of my business arguement, I have not seen that so much.
AndrewsDad on February 18, 2008 at 1:47 PM
What did he expect at Steubenville? It’s practically a wholly owned subsidiary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Flar on February 18, 2008 at 1:53 PM
I’m not gonna comment on the evils of abortion. What is facinating though is watching a politician like BJ take on someone that he disagrees with. The body movement and hand gestures – classic politics. I just saw a newsreel of Theodore Roosevelt giving stump speeches. Its still interesting to watch these people become so animated. Now watch McCain or Hillary, boring. I dislike everything BJ stands for, but he is one hell of a politician.
Andy in Agoura Hills on February 18, 2008 at 1:56 PM
If Bubba does become *gulp* First Gent, I for one will feel sorry for the secret service agents assigned to his security… I doubt Hillary will warn the agents that she plans to become a widow.
Swinehound on February 18, 2008 at 2:02 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on why I keep getting “Sorry, this video is no longer available” each time I click a Youtube video here at HotAir?
Rod on February 18, 2008 at 2:05 PM
original story from:
http://www.lifenews.com/state2908.html
“Clinton claimed his police (Curious F.Slip!)and those that Hillary Clinton supports are doing more to reduce abortions even though both have steadfastly opposed bills to limit abortions, such as a ban on partial-birth abortions not spending taxpayer money on abortions.”
& this:
“Clinton relied on the old argument that pr-life advocates want to put women in prison, even though abortion bans have never targeted women because they are a second victim in the abortion process.“
.
& LIBERALISM as a MIND-SICKNESS:
http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/02082007.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494
lobosan5 on February 18, 2008 at 2:06 PM
As in Deviled Ham?
ReubenJCogburn on February 18, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Well, he did mention “Hot Air”!
JetBoy on February 18, 2008 at 2:11 PM
True on so many levels.
labrat on February 18, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Here, I thought My Governor “Magic Ball” Deval Patrick was plagiarizing Obama all this time.
“Together we can” – Patrick’s Campaign slogan.
“Change we can believe in” – Obama’s Campaign slogan.
kiakjones on February 18, 2008 at 2:15 PM
or how about this from the same article:
“Later, Clinton said Hillary should become the Democratic nominee because she will stand up to pro-life advocates.”……..
thereby standing up to all of the unborn….
‘crush the miserable clusters of cells!’ she screamed
‘what right do they have to their LIVES!’
& BillyBob nodded in fearful agreement.
lobosan5 on February 18, 2008 at 2:19 PM
Well, he did mention “Hot Air”!
“May those words leave a bitter taste in his mouth each time he says them!” He-he-he-he!
kcd on February 18, 2008 at 2:20 PM
“Tell the truth, tell the truth…”
Indeed.
Sefton on February 18, 2008 at 2:32 PM
“Depends on the definition of what “truth” is”…
kcd on February 18, 2008 at 2:36 PM
The upside of all this is the more often this happens, the greater the chance of us seeing him clutch his chest and give us a Fred Sanford “Wheezy, I’m comin’ home!” moment.
Alden Pyle on February 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Fred’s wife was Elizabeth. George Jefferson’s was Wheezy.
74impala on February 18, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Now that is a good point.
OneGyT on February 18, 2008 at 2:59 PM
It’s pretty easy to win an argument when you are the only one with a microphone.
Captain America on February 18, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Crankyman returns! :)
ThePrez on February 18, 2008 at 3:00 PM
I do have to give Bill Clinton credit: he handles protesters better than any other president. I don’t see the use of standing there with a dopey grin and just trying to continue with your speech like all the others have done over the years. Agree with him or not, I think it’s a better MO.
Jim-Rose on February 18, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Put mothers and doctors in jail?
Demagogue much?
Mallard T. Drake on February 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Actually, I believe the original
South Dakota abortion ban legislation allowed no exceptions, even for rape or incest.
a capella on February 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM
If it were illegal, how would you handle the abortions that were performed? A fine?
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Well said.
labrat on February 18, 2008 at 3:39 PM
If Billy-Boy thinks abortion is a good thing, why did he and the nutcracker try so hard to reduce them? You really can’t have it both ways.
And does he really say “I am against abortion”??????
bloggless on February 18, 2008 at 3:51 PM
I don’t mean to be obtuse (although it’s something I’m very good at), but I don’t see anything wrong with Bill Clinton’s comments that pro-lifers want to put women and abortionists in jail. That’s what pro-lifers believe, right? You can’t spend all day talking about how there should be all sorts of legal restrictions placed on abortions, and then turn around and say you don’t want to jail women or abortionists who violate those restrictions.
Frankly, I’d get red-faced too if I was heckled by a couple of yahoos with too much free time who want to punish a woman for making a difficult personal choice.
Why is it that so many conservatives think it’s appropriate to force women to have children they may not be prepared for? I thought conservatives were supposed to believe in individual rights…
Enrique on February 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM
As for Hill-Billy and their daughter telling the truth:
It all boils down to a simple Biblical principle. According to I John 2:4 “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” “him” is referring to Jesus Christ. Hill-Billy and their daughter have all professed they know God but yet they do not obey his commandments nor do they repent of their disobedience. Their disobedience is the “in your face” type that dares anyone to rebuke them or even bring it to their attention. They lie. They cheat. They steal. The bear false witness. They are busybodies. He is an adulterer (as in Lewinsky and all of the others). They make promises and break them. They are truce breakers. They do all of this with such reckless abandon and with such alarming consistency that people have simply accepted them as people without any morals or integrity. They no longer expect anything else from them.
What we as a nation are seeing and hearing is the true Hill-Billy & Kid. Luke 6:45 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”
Larry L. Sharp on February 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM
I thought conservatives were supposed to believe in individual rights…
EnochCain on February 18, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Oh and another thing these butchers aren’t honest with women when they are making that “difficult personal choice”. I have an ex who had an abortion and she is haunted by it till this day…she now works at a counseling working with other women who were lied to by PP.
EnochCain on February 18, 2008 at 4:03 PM
You gotta love Steubenville simply for the fact that Dean Martin came from there.
DoctorDentons on February 18, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I’m becoming more and more pro-life over the years. Seeing sonograms of babies and hearing about cases of fetuses surviving after only 22 weeks. That’s compelling.
When I see stuff like that video though I think “kooks”. It’s just not helpful to their cause to go and shout at Billy Jeff or anyone else.
Dash on February 18, 2008 at 4:10 PM
To tell the truth. Jail is better than being SUCKED out, CHOPPED into bits, and THROWN discarded in a dumpster. DEAD!!!
ChrisIansNana on February 18, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Yes, What about the rights of the unborn
child????? Enrique????????? PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THEY ARE IN THIS SITUATION???????
ChrisIansNana on February 18, 2008 at 4:17 PM
wow Billy boy seems a little testy .
Mojack420 on February 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM
WOW, he’s really losing it!
Do you think the possibility that the coronation being less and less likely is getting to him???
rightwingpastor on February 18, 2008 at 4:25 PM
I wonder how much character Bill would show if he were in the audience holding up a sign unable to answer back to a narcissist with a microphone?
Speakup on February 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Baby killer.
Question: How come NY state has one of the highest, if not the highest, ratios of abortions to women in this nation?
Seems to me that Clindumb should know that.
madmonkphotog on February 18, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Our experience is different. Our daughter was abducted and raped at knifepoint when she was 18. Part of the hospital followup protocol was a choice for prophylactic treatment. She has never been sorry, nor have we. She didn’t deserve more trauma. My biggest problem with the prolife position is when no exceptions are allowed, and it always seems to eventually come down to that.
a capella on February 18, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Last one to see Billy Jeff this testy was Monica..
Wade on February 18, 2008 at 4:51 PM
I’m reminded of what I liked about the Clintons. It’s not much, but it’s something.
thuja on February 18, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Bill Clinton Smacks Rude Obama Supporter In the Face?
TheBigOldDog on February 18, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Glad to see a bit of reason and accountability around here, Enrique and thuja. Enrique is totally right when he points out the hypocrisy in the pro-lifers being against abortion but for personal freedom. As long as you choose as the pro-life people want you to, you can have as much freedom as you can take. I don’t like BJ, but he makes a good point re: criminalization of abortion.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on February 18, 2008 at 5:23 PM
I am sorry for what happened to your daughter and I would probably even agree with there being exceptions in cases such as hers.
EnochCain on February 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM
How stupid is William Jefferson Clinton to speak at the premier Catholic university in the nation?
Did he think Fransiscan meant they support the policies of France?
Don’t walk into the lion’s den Bill, you’re long past the days where you could come out of one alive.
BKennedy on February 18, 2008 at 5:26 PM
He graduated from perhaps the premiere Catholic university.
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I think Dems who see this clip will like it. I think they’ll see it as Bill being passionate again, not as him “losing it.” Sorry, but this is the kind of thing they eat up. It’s effective rhetoric for potential Hillary voters.
aero on February 18, 2008 at 5:36 PM
You can have as much freedom as you want as long as you don’t commit armed robbery.
You can have as much freedom as you want as long as you don’t sell illegal drugs.
You can have as much freedom as you want as long as you don’t commit rape.
You can have as much freedom as you want as long as you don’t commit murder.
For people who are pro life abortion is murder of an innocent person. You may disagree, and that’s your right but you have to understand their perspective. It’s no different when Plantation owners called slaves property and abolitionists said, “no, they are human beings.”
TheBigOldDog on February 18, 2008 at 5:50 PM
You can have as much freedom as you want as long as you don’t read illegal books. In some circumstances the laws are not on the side of freedom.
Your other examples address a case where rights are in conflict (including abortion). In the case of drugs the government is telling people what to do with their body & mind. Might be good public policy but it isn’t freedom.
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Enrique said:
“Why is it that so many conservatives think it’s appropriate to force women to have children they may not be prepared for? I thought conservatives were supposed to believe in individual rights…”
That’s true. But individual rights are predicated upon individual responsibility, and the former are impossible without the latter (file that under: Eroding freedoms for all due to the irresponsibility and lawlessness of a relative few). Also, conservatives generally assume not just life but personhood begins at conception, as you are already probably aware; I think BigOldDog was making this point. So if you keep this in mind, the conservative position is consistent with itself. It is the liberal position (“we” determine if/when the unborn become a person) is lunacy.
splink on February 18, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Being conservative is more about an approach to government and tradition than it is a checklist of positions. I wouldn’t disagree that many conservatives oppose abortion–a substantial majority of “social” conservatives do, while perhaps not a majority of “economic” conservatives favor outlawing abortion.
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Who cares what economic “conservatives” think. These are the same people that tell us to forget our values. The major reason you are conservative is because you want to keep more of your money. Nothing wrong with that, great idea. But don’t tell me I’m a one issue voter because I believe abortion is wrong. As far as I’m concerned millions of innocent babies being killed is pretty damn important. I’m with you, keeping more of my money is important, but don’t belittle pro lifers for what they believe.
kongzilla on February 18, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Heh. Yeah, BJ is suffering from SOS (Semen Overload Syndrome).
labrat on February 18, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Regan cared, and they were an important part of his coalition. Before that, free market conservatism was important to William F. Buckley. My point above was in response to the assertion that life beginning at conception is fundamental to conservative thinking.
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 7:47 PM
If you think drugs only affect the user then I submit to you, you don’t know a single addict or spent a second of your life in the inner city.
TheBigOldDog on February 18, 2008 at 9:22 PM
The Clintonistas probably expected a protest of some type as Steubenville is most decidedly a Catholic stronghold. They most likely saw it as a perfect chance for BJ to indulge himself in a self-righteous finger-wag and throw some red meat to the base.
As to all the discussion about jailing women, I just wonder how we handled it when abortions were actually illegal prior to Roe v. Wade. Abortions have only been legally and socially permissible for a short time in the history of the US. Were there significant numbers of women jailed?
inmypajamas on February 18, 2008 at 9:24 PM
BTW, for any Ohio residents reading this…the guy clapping in the background while Clinton attacks Ohioans…is Ohio Governor Ted Strickland.
Hammertime on February 18, 2008 at 9:31 PM
To William Jefferson Clinton:
1) You are correct. Abortion should be illegal
2) Once abortion is illegal, abortionists who DO continue to perform abortions should be prosecuted, tried, and sentenced, but not just to jail. Time in jail for first degree murder varies from state to state. The sentence for first degree murder, which abortion would be if-when illegal – intentional, premeditated murder of innocent, defenseless human beings, are either life imprisonment or death. I agree with those sentences 100%, but I prefer the death penalty for abortionists once abortion is illegal, rather than life imprisonment.
Why do I prefer the death penalty for abortionists rather than life imprisonment once abortion is illegal? Because as long as they live, the stand a chance of being released from prison. If they are released they will most likely continue to commit the slaughter or human beings via abortion. They are already serial killers, hence it is not as if they commit one or two and that’s it. They commit hundreds to thousands of abortions.
In order to protect babies inside the womb, and society as a whole, from the bane which is abortion – the wanton killing of innocent, defenseless human beings, it is necessary to remove from society any and all those who would perpetrate such a barbaric practice.
Also, the women who hire the abortionist should also be tried, sentenced, and prosecuted. Before sentence should be handed down, such concerns as mens rea, and scienter must be decided.
3) William the thug-liar-woman abusers-rapist-civil rights violator-perjuror Jefferson Clinton is probably correct in his claim that there would be little to no political-legal support for illegalizing abortion and prosecuting abortionists and women who hire abortionists as assassins-hit men to slaughter their own babies, although all legal and political influence SHOULD agree to illegalizing and prosecute abortionists and the women who hire them as killers of their offspring.
Politicians, etc., tend to be weak willed and will favor their own personal, selfish concerns, and the baby inside the womb of a woman is “out of site; out of mind” and is not afforded or considered seriously deserving of the same rights as a person like themselves. Furthermore, with a skewed, distorted sense of value, euthanasia, “personhood,” abortion, HESCR (Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research), Cloning, etc., are all issues which many self absorbed individuals think favors THEM. They don’t want to admit, and live by, criteria that would see them siding with respect for living human beings, even those inside the womb, when they can benefit from exploiting them and making life more “convenient” for themselves.
4) And this could actually be listed as Number 1: A living human being is killed via abortion, not some nonliving, non-human piece of tissue, or item that just “happens” to be inside mother’s womb. That alone should be something our entire society respects and protects, but our society has distorted ideas and practices which contribute to ignorance and abuses perpetrated on our weak, our small, our handicapped, our injured, our elderly, which results in millions of abortions, euthanasia, exploitation in experiments in the lab, and so on.
5) William Jefferson Clinton has proven himself to be devoid of values, ethics, and concern for respect for human life, hence, although people listen to him, it says more about their own lack of ethics, respect for living human beings, mores, etc., than it says about Clinton’s authenticity as an advocate for abortion of innocent human beings.
William2006 on February 18, 2008 at 10:29 PM
That is a flat out distortion of the facts!!!!!
Pro-life advocates do not force women to have babies, nor do pro-lifers/life choicers force women to have sex and become pregnant.
Pro-life advocates, or, more accurately “Life Choicers” or “Advocates for the end of butchering of innocent human babies as human embryos and human fetuses from being ripped and cut to pieces, or killed by other means by abortionists” don’t force women to have babies. Women willingly engage in sexual relations, which results in pregnancy. Men and women who procreate should protect and care for their baby, not kill her. They are responsible for the new human being’s life, and killing baby by abortion is not taking responsibility for their child, but it is the avoidance of responsibility, as well as lack of respect for the child’s life and rights and liberties.
You said “I thought conservatives were supposed to believe in individual rights… ”
Not all abortion opponents consider themselves “conservative.” Nevertheless, opposition to abortion IS the CLEAR, DEFINITIVE respect for individual rights.
In abortion, the killing of innocent human beings, a human being, the baby inside the womb, is killed. Both the mother and baby are living human beings. Mother, and society, should respect the life of the baby, not just her own life.
William2006 on February 18, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Wrong on both counts. I’ve spent most of the last 20 years in Manhattan. Also, a few years ago I had a long-time friend, from high school, die from years of daily drug abuse. Over two decades friends and family intervened. He was in and out of rehab, but in the end he was pretty candid about what he was doing with his life and where it would lead.
He made choices. Those choices killed him. Steve Fossett made choices that were going to catch up and kill him. The decisions everyone makes affect their family and loved ones, but they, not the government, are the best to exercise that judgment.
dedalus on February 18, 2008 at 11:22 PM
We know where Bill is at on abortion. I wonder what the messiah of hope offers to the unborn. Hope? A future? Change?
Answer: Death.
Mojave Mark on February 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Personally, I wish I could say the same thing as fourstringfuror said, but knowing the facts, I don’t believe I can.
I was born several years before, according to NARAL, abortion was “safe and legal”.
My father forced my mother to marry her, and (literally) threatened to kill anyone who intervened. She was 18, and he was 45. No one in her family knew her plight because he shadowed her every move, and they feared him.
As for birth control? He convinced her that if they had sex while standing up, she wouldn’t get pregnant. So you could say that I was the sperm that swam uphill.
Having become pregnant, she was tied to him more than ever, not having a way to support herself and a child on her own.
Can I honestly say that, if abortion were legal, she would have chose to abort me? No, but she would have had every incentive to want to do it, were it a choice she could have made.
So yes, this background and context colors my thinking. I have a daughter who is now 12. If she were raped, while I wouldn’t force her to keep the baby, I would get down on my knees and beg for her to give the innocent child in her womb a chance to live, and give a childless couple who want a baby a chance to have a family of their own.
Once a child is conceived, I believe wholeheartedly that regardless of the circumstances of the conception, the child is innocent and has a right to live. It deserves a chance.
For those who want to get wrapped up in “choices”, well, a woman chooses to recognize that she is fertile and if she has sex, she can conceive a new life inside her body. If she chooses to ignore that possibility, she has still made a “choice”.
And if she chooses to snuff out that innocent life growing inside of her body for whatever reason, she will one day have to stand before her Creator and deal with the consequences of that choice, and what comes of it.
Finally, I have to wonder: since 1973, how many people have been snuffed out of existence from sheer avoidance of inconvenience, who, had they been allowed to live, might have been the next Tesla, Einstein, Salk, Watson or Crick, Carver, Anthony, Armstrong, or Patton? How many gifted people have been sacrificed on the alter of convenience, whose lives could have made ours better, had they been afforded the chance to live?
Wanderlust on February 19, 2008 at 2:58 AM
BJ the pedophile wants to tell me about right and wrong?
Stop the murderous abortions and there will be no one to arrest.
40+ million murderous abortions since 1973, and the pedophile’s bloodlust is still not sated.
leanright on February 19, 2008 at 5:20 AM
Yes, but why stop there? I’ve got plenty of sperm which are innocent and have a right to live! Don’t they deserve a chance? So if I go rape someone, well, that’s ok, I’m just giving my unborn children a chance to live!
c6gunner on February 19, 2008 at 6:45 AM
Call me when you find a sperm that develops into a human child on its own and bursts through your testicles.
As to your rape comment, that’s the kind of low-brow vileness that I expect from abortion supporters. It isn’t a big jump from destroying defenseless human lives for cash and a sense of power to wanting to inflict damage on those currently around you.
Pro-choicers: “Science? What is Science? Why should we worry about Science when we’re making so much f*^%ing money ignoring it?”
BKennedy on February 19, 2008 at 7:33 AM
“c6gunner,”
Is that comment supposed to be funny?
Are you equating sperm with a living human organism, which is the human being, the human person, the human embryo and human fetus, which is living and developing inside his or her mother’s womb?
Sperm are not living human organisms. They are human, and they are human sex cells, but they are not an individual human organism.
If you take a sperm cell and place it inside a woman’s uterus, the sperm will deteriorate and be ejected from the womb. They won’t grow into another living human being and not continue to adulthood.
Also, the new human being inside the womb, the embryo – the stage (embryonic stages) which extends from conception-fertilization till the end of the eighth week, Post fertilization (PF), is a blend of the genetic material of the mother and fathers sperm and oocyte after the sperm has penetrated the zona pellucida of the woman’s oocyte and fertilization has taken place.
Human body cells, or Somatic Cells, are diploid cells, normally contain 46 chromosomes, as well as produce only human proteins, human enzymes, etc., (exceptions exists, such as 47 in cases of Downs Syndrome, and 45 in cases such as Turners Syndrome). The sperm, after undergoing gametogenesis, will contain 22 _ X or Y, a total of 23 Chromosomes, which means they are haploid cells, containing 1/2 the total number of chromosomes of the normal human being (46).
The woman’s oocyte, which have existed inside the female fetus as early as 1/2 way through her development inside the womb, at which point there are millions of oocyte, has also been undergoing gametogenesis, via oogenesis, which continues for decades, into adulthood. The oocytes, reduced to a few hundred thousand by the time a woman is able to reproduce, undergoes different stages of meiosis.
At the point that the sperm penetrates the zona pellucida, the protective “jacket” so to speak, on the outside of the oocyte, meiosis 2 is completed and the female’s sex gamete, her oocyte, like the sperm cell, is now a haploid cell as well. That means, the oocyte contains 23 chromosomes, 22 + X (X is the chromosome which produces a female baby, provided the male’s sperm delivers another X chromosome (undamaged). If the male delivers an intact, not damaged Y chromosome, the baby will be a boy).
Of we place the oocyte into the womb, or uterus, by itself, as the sperm, the oocyte will deteriorate and be ejected from the woman’s uterus and not develop into an adult human being.
Under the circumstances of sexual reproduction, which requires sexual intercourse and the fertilization of the female’s oocyte in the woman’s fallopian tube by the males sperm – compared to asexual reproduction, which does not require the sperm and ooctye, or sexual intercourse, as in monozygotic twinning, triplets, etc., in vivo, and artificial asexual reproduction, ex vivo (outside the womb), reproduction takes place, and a new human being’s life begins. From that point onward, this new human being, first referred to, clinically, as a human embryo, contains all the genetic information, material, and instructions and programing she or he requires, to develop into adulthood. No other incident or event is required for him or her to complete her journey throughout the continuum of overlapping developmental changes that take place witting the womb, and which do not end at birth, but which continue into adulthood.
The 23 (22 + X or Y) chromosomes of the male, and the 23 (22 + X) chromosome of the female unite, their genetic material fuses, and the new human being, now comprised of all 46 chromosomes, replete with DNA, RNA, human proteins, human enzymes, instructions, the works, now forms the new human being.
The sperm and the oocyte are not the same as the new human embryo, or the human fetus – the fetal stage extending from the ninth week, PF, till term/birth.
One, the human embryo and fetus, are living human organisms, fully members of the human race, while sperm and oocyte are human, but not living human organisms, not living human beings, not an embryo, not a fetus, not an infant, but human sex cells, or sex gametes, part of a human being.
An organism is a living thing which grows and develops, reacts and responds to stimuli, reproduces its own kind, and dies. The sperm does not do these things; the human being, the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, child, adult, etc., do these things, and hence, there is a clear, discernible difference between sperm, oocyte, and a living human organism, a living human being.
Bottom line, sperm is not a living person, whereas a human embryo, a human fetus, and human infant, etc., are living human persons, living human beings.
Regarding your rape statement, that is crude, rude, and despicable!
If you rape someone, then you should be arrested, tried, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and, if and when found guilty, you should be sentenced with the most severe sentence the law provides!
In case you are going to bring it up, the baby should NOT be aborted. It was YOU who did the crime, not the baby. The baby should not be punished for your violence and abuse You aggressed against the woman, the mother, not the baby. If baby is killed by an abortionist, she becomes the second victim and the mother has extended your violent act upon an innocent victim, compounding your crime of violence and violation and abuse, upon an innocent.
William2006 on February 19, 2008 at 7:46 AM
Where are you from that forces conception?
Wade on February 19, 2008 at 9:07 AM
That is an excellent question, “Wade!”
“Forces conception?”
Who does that, and where?
William2006 on February 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Are you saying that a human being is created at conception or at the formation of an embryo? Since a zygote may split into twins before forming embryos, is it possible to say that a fertilized egg, within a day of conception, is a unique human being? Wouldn’t that be arguing that twins are the same person?
dedalus on February 19, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Bizzare. I’ve never understood religious fanatics, and I don’t expect I ever will. Whether you want to force women to cover themselves in a veil and marry against their consent, or “only” force them to incubate a foetus which they do not want, it’s all about the same thing: ideological indoctrination, and control over others. You’re more than welcome to hold whatever religious beliefs you want, but if you try to force them on me or on people I care about….well, you better hope that you’re better armed than me.
c6gunner on February 19, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Not really, we just need enough votes. . . . and that time is approaching.
Anyway, I have to say that watching that video and hearing the cheers of the crowd make me ashamed to be an Ohioan, but I’m sure they’re all Northern Ohioans and not Southern, or even Southeastern Ohioans like myself, who actually have some moral fortitude and don’t cave in to the socialist, child murdering left.
Vaporman87 on February 19, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Just need enough votes? Brother, what do you think the second amendment is for? It exists exactly to protect the people from fools on a crusade who want to take away the rights of others by misusing the power of the state. I certainly wouldn’t let you take away my freedom of speech without a fight, so why should I let you take any of my, or anyone else’s, other rights? You can vote all you like, but, even in the unlikely event that you manage to overturn Roe vs Wade, don’t expect your victims to just smile and accept it. Just like you could vote to re-institute slavery, but you’d have a hell of a time trying to implement it.
By the way, I think Clinton’s an idiot most of the time, but in the last few weeks he decimated the “9/11 Truth” morons, AND he’s delivered a logical critique of these rabbit anti-choice protesters. So he’s certainly grown on me. I still think he’s a dishonest ass, and have nothing but animosity for his troll of a wife, but he’s certainly sounding a lot more logical these days than some of you are.
c6gunner on February 19, 2008 at 4:25 PM
1) Are you saying that a human being is created at conception or at the formation of an embryo? – “dedalus”
There are two main forms of human reproduction: sexual reproduction, which involves sexual intercourse between a man and a woman and the fertilization of the woman’s oocyte by the man’s sperm, resulting in a new, genetically unique human being, and asexual reproduction, which occurs naturally occasionally in human beings in which, during cell division in the early stage of embryonic development, some cell or cells might separate from the rest, and, if they are still capable at that time, may become another human embryo, or more. This results in monozygotic twinning, triplets, etc. This results in identical twins (triplets, etc.)
Occasionally more than one oocyte might have been released into the fallopian tube and each might be fertilized by a sperm. This second oocyte could also be fertilized, causing fraternal twins, rather than identical twins, triplets, etc., as occurs with asexual, monozygotic twinning.
With modern reproductive technologies reproduction also takes place outside the womb, or ex-vivo. These are artificial reproduction methods which occur outside of the womb. These often occur in IVF processes and therapies and include blastomere separation, blastocyst splitting – resulting in twinning, and cloning techniques, such as Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (SCNT) and Germ Line Cell Nuclear Transfer (GLCNT), etc.
In your question you ask if the human being is created at conception or at the formation of the embryo.
In Human Embryology, in sexual reproduction, the embryonic stages begins at conception-fertilization and continues till the end of the eighth week, Post Fertilization. That means that fertilization begins the embryonic stage and that marks the beginning of the new human being’s life. The single celled human embryonic zygote is the human embryo, the new human being. She or he does not become an human embryo at some time later, and she does not become a human being later, for she is a human embryo and a human being from the beginning. In other words, there is not a “precursor” or “pre-embryo” stage, no pre-embryo. There is the new human being who begins his or her life as a human embryonic zygote and continues to grow and develop in overlapping stages throughout the continuum of his or her life, with development which does not end at birth, but continues into adulthood, provided nothing and no one interferes with his or her life, provided no one kills him or her.
To reiterate, in asexual reproduction, in vivo, “twinning”, inside the mother’s body, during cell division some cells may separate from the rest of the embryo, and if they still have the potential, they could become another human embryo, the first embryo is a separate human being from the second. In other words, they are both separate human beings, they are not the same person.
William2006 on February 19, 2008 at 5:42 PM
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