Did the “religious right’s” mistakes make McCain inevitable? Update: Tammy Bruce audio added
posted at 11:03 am on February 18, 2008 by Bryan
USA Today’s Daniel Gilgoff and Captain Ed both think so, and they posit the “Mormon issue” as an underlying driver. I think they’re both oversimplifying. The “Mormon issue” played a role, but I don’t think it was the most important role in why most evangelicals never really warmed to Mitt. I also think that they overstate the influence of evangelical leaders like Dr. James Dobson. Those leaders are influential, but not as influential as they or outsiders think they are.
I’ll use myself as an example of why. I’m an evangelical and I only came around to supporting Romney as the best alternative to McCain late in the game, after the Florida primary. The “Mormon issue” had nothing to do with it, though. The flipflop issue and the Fred issue had everything to do with it. For most other evangelicals, the Huckaboom also played a decisive role. Anyone who disagrees isn’t to be trusted as an analyst. I keed.
First, the flipflop issue. This was huge for me. As candidates for the presidency go, on paper Romney stood out for his broad experience with the Olympics, as a businessman and as a governor. He was easily the most qualified for the job. But the Mitt Romney of 1994 and 2002 didn’t sound much like the Mitt Romney of 2006-2007. Romney explained his changes of heart here and there, but they all added up to not knowing what he really believes. If he doesn’t know what he believes, how is a voter supposed to know what he believes? And if I can’t figure out what he really believes, I’ll have a hard time voting for him. I eventually came around to supporting Romney once I became convinced that Mitt 2.0 is where he’ll stay. Most evangelicals probably never got that far, though. They had Huckabee as a “Christian leader” in the race, and on social issues Huck was with them, so they went with him. They never heard about his record on immigration or his weaknesses on national security.
I’ll get to the Huckaboom in a minute, but before that happened there was the Fred factor. Fred’s emergence as a possibility in the race in early 2007 gave conservatives a place to put our hopes. Fred said and wrote all the right things. Fred took attention and time away from three things: The McCain collapse, Romney’s attempts to convince conservatives that he is one of us, and examination of Huckabee’s conservative bona fides. Those of us who didn’t yet trust Romney, didn’t want McCain, were worried about Giuliani and discounted Huckabee looked to Fred as the one real conservative in the race who could unite the conservative movement. But Fred fizzled. His campaign never really got off the ground. He ended up wasting time and sucking up space that Romney could have used to cast himself as Fred with a deeper resume.
Then came the Huckaboom. Evangelicals didn’t yet trust Romney, didn’t like Giuliani (who also ended up wasting the time of security conservatives), and didn’t want McCain, and along comes the witty Southern preacher/governor. Huckabee became the vessel for most evangelical enthusiasm just by being there. He didn’t have a record of flipflopping on core social issues. He didn’t have a record like Giuliani’s of opposing the GOP platform or of serial marriage. He didn’t have McCain’s record of maverick irascibility and calling social con leaders “agents of intolerance.” As long as Huckabee’s record didn’t get scrutinized too closely on national security, border security and economics, he was a viable candidate. The problem for Huck was that his appeal never broke out beyond the evangelicals and was never likely to.
By the time the Huckaboom was over, Fred was done and McCain was on the rise, having rebuilt and retooled after his campaign had fallen apart. McCain’s rise coincided with the time some conservatives started to take their third or fourth look at the alternatives and some began to settle on Romney as the Not McCain.
That was my trajectory. The “Mormon issue” played no role in my thinking at all. Dobson et al played no role for me. I’m sure all of that played a role in the thinking of some evangelicals, but it wasn’t as decisive as either Gilgoff or Capt Ed think. Fundamentally, all of the candidates have brought serious problems to the table. The “religious right” certainly isn’t to blame for that.
There is one thing left hanging that I think is worth noting, and that’s that McCain isn’t the worst candidate we could be stuck with at this point. He’s probably the third worst in terms of dividing the party against itself, but he’s not the worst. Giuliani and Huckabee both would have been worse, for reasons unique to them. Giuliani has just as much of a record of going against the party as McCain, plus he has immense personal baggage. Huckabee would have divided the social cons sharply against the economic cons and showed himself to be a lightweight on national security. So no matter how bad we think things are right now, I’m at least taking some solace in the fact that it could’ve been worse.
McCain still needs to fire Juan Hernandez, though.
Update: I’ll be on the Tammy Bruce Show this afternoon to talk about this post. It should be fun.
Update: Here’s the audio from my guest appearance on Tammy’s show today. Am I an “icon” now? I just might be.










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The big difference between Reagan and the Maverick over amnesty, is Reagan was forced into it, and regretted it…the Mav pushed for it, and welcomes it to be pushed again.
Conservative Voice on February 18, 2008 at 10:36 PM
You know what’s amusing? If “chosen one” walked into a room where we were all sitting around talking, he/she/it wouldn’t open its mouth for fear of being ridiculed for the blowhard that it is. But here in an anonymous forum, it can bloviate and stink up HA with snide comments and illogic until HA is ruined…who has time to debate him/her/it? It has no logic, no civility, and does nothing but flame…hell, it even disagrees with commenters supporting his boy. In real life, we’d probably just beat his *ss until he STFU.
Thanks, chosen one, you are an inflamed, pus-filled, cancerous boil on the butt of HA.
JustTruth101 on February 18, 2008 at 10:37 PM
McCain, also has now said secure the border first now.
The people have spoken.
Chakra Hammer on February 18, 2008 at 10:54 PM
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Lol, right back at you, you dare call me a coward because I didn’t respond on your time schedule, yet it looks like you have left the building.
Next time before you call someone out, wait a few minutes, or is that too much of a compromise for you?
Conservative Voice on February 18, 2008 at 10:54 PM
Chakra
Ya, he also said he would sign the same amnesty bill if it came on his desk, I think I have a bridge to sell you if you think he learned his lesson.
Conservative Voice on February 18, 2008 at 10:55 PM
The Chosen One on the death of Mughniya…
He is merely one of thousands of Jihadi bombmakers.
in this epic struggle. Good riddance with perspective.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 17, 2008 at 2:50 PM
When I asked what he meant by that statement I was told I am a brick. My wife probably agreed with him.
So far his response to anyone’s viewpoint is a personal attack….
Just to name a few, Moron, A$$wipe, Illiterate, Whiney Quiter, Cowardly, Brick, Junior Varsity. And ALL of these personal attacks came after questions were posted back to him, or opinions were posted back to him, that contained NO attack, just disagreement.
Looking forward to the last straw.
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Thank you.
You mean propping the door open with Mexico?
Right. Wasn’t he against the Bush tax reform before he was for it?
I will tell my kids the truth: the soldiers on the ground fought the war. Or are you Mccainiacs so obsessed with him that you think is his responsible for winning the WOT? I have no problem giving him credit, but even Democrats get it right sometimes.
jeffNWV on February 18, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:00 PM
I’m with you on this. I’d like to know what it takes to get a troll banned. Chosen loves to throw rocks and then run. It’s inflating the threads and drowning out reasoned debate. It really is making me long for a McCain administration. If his State of The Union is anything like Chosen’s sputtering diatribes, we’ll see firsthand what the bully pulpit really is. John struck a chord with some of his minions. Thank goodness Chosen only represents the fundamentalist McCainite sect. Will you moderate McCainites please reign in your hacks?
Cold Steel on February 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Never fear. The writing is on the wall. He go by his own hand. There are about six well respected, and veteran, commenters here that he has yet to run afoul off. When he crosses one of that half dozen, or so, the lights will go off real quick. I’m just a light weight and hope to get a good view of the fireworks when they go off.
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:31 PM
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Moron, A$$wipe, Illiterate, Whiney Quiter, Cowardly, Brick, Junior Varsity
I never called you any of these, but I can confidantly call you a liar. I do think I may have called you Aumish, but I stand by that one. Perhaps inbred as well.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Conservative Voice on February 18, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Where ya at dude? I guess you didn’t have the grapefruits to respond to facts. I’m glad you decided to bury your head instead of badmouthing Reagan. That was cowardly, but smart.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Conservative Voice on February 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM
So much for liar.
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
No one has ever called THE CHOSEN ONE any names. LOL. If your trying to get me banned, I wish you all the luck. That means that my truth is starting to widdle away at your insecurity. Plus, my guy won. I will ultimately have the last laugh. Watch the “hacks” comment, you wouldn’t want to be considered a hypocrite. Would you?
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Nice try Limerick. Your selective quotations from a conversation with Dorian in which he insulted me numerous times will not work. I’m the new hot thing on this post. Maybe you would like a website where everyone agrees with you 100% and would like to stamp out a healthy debate. That’s not going to work. Bryan and friends recognize the difference between playful sparring and downright nastiness.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:42 PM
I don’t have to try to get you banned TCO. You’re doing fine all by your lonesome.
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:43 PM
The fact that you and Cold Steel and conspiring to silence me is satisfaction enough.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:45 PM
I have to think people are just being willfully dense. Considering that McCain will be the Republican nominee, here’s a question for you, should McCain not win in November, and either Hillary or Obama takes the White House:
What should we do when Gitmo terrorists end up in our civilian courts or we have a major terrorist event because terrorists couldn’t be questioned with vigorous techniques to gain knowledge beforehand, and in addition to that, we’ve lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Hillary and Obama are every bit as bad as McCain on all these domestic issues conservatives are worried about, and often much worse, and in addition to that Hillary is incompetent to lead the military while Obama has actually promised capitulation.
Every nightmare scenario conservatives envision about a McCain presidency will be realized just as surely under either a Hillary or Obama administration, and in addition to those nightmares either candidate will almost certainly realize the additional, even more horrible nightmare of losing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Maybe we need a more basic metaphor. Pick one:
A) Getting slapped and spit on
B) Getting slapped, spit on, and having your hand cut off.
If those are my only choices, I for one am relatively enthusiastic about A). It seems a number of conservatives either seem to think one’s no worse than the other, or, unbelievably, that B) is not only perfectly acceptable but somehow even preferable. I just can’t wrap my mind around it. It’s irrational in a way I’ve come to expect only from the leftist fringe.
Blacklake on February 18, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Ah, the conspiracy card. Very nice.
Name calling ✔
Repetitive statements ✔
Unintelligible arguments ✔
Illogical assertions ✔
Conspiracy theories ✔
All hallmarks of the “new hot thing on this post.” You’re well on your way to guest commenting on this site. Please remember us peons.
Cold Steel on February 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
I change my earlier assessment of chosen one. Chosen One is not an inflamed, pus-filled, cancerous boil on the butt of HA. It is a delusional inflamed, pus-filled, cancerous boil on the butt of HA.
Chosen one, you waste so much freaking space with your juvenile diatribes. Have you ever considered thinking before typing? What you call “playful sparring” is really more appropriate on yahoo chat where the teeny-boppers try to “out insult” one another with who can tell the most degrading “yo momma” jokes.
We are adults here, and you are wasting our time because your posts show up along with everyone else’s, we can’t “block” them the way we could block you in chat.
JustTruth101 on February 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Passion, reason, justification. Good post.
Limerick on February 18, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Loosen up fellas/ladies. Shouldn’t there be a certain “entertainment value” to these threads. You folks worship the ground Coulter walks on. How about I’m the Coulter of this house, except with common sense.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:56 PM
Cold Steel on February 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
What are those empty boxy thingies next to your unjust allegation?
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 18, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Blacklake on February 18, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Brother it’s the leftist fringe that loves drowning out debate. Many McCainites are adopting that routine. It’s divisive and unnecessary. Compromise and team building are wonderful in-house. When we’re chumming with the other side and throwing body blows at the home team, that is a different story. Conservatives did not start this mess. Conservatives are not fanning the flames. Telling people to shut up and vote guarantees defeat. Please illustrate to me how that helps McCain? How does hiding behind our military involvement in Iraq help McCain’s presidential bid? Fear is a temporary fix. It will not solely drive the polls in November. McCain must do more.
Cold Steel on February 18, 2008 at 11:58 PM
I change my earlier assessment of chosen one. Chosen One is not an inflamed, pus-filled, cancerous boil on the butt of HA. It is a delusional inflamed, pus-filled, cancerous boil on the butt of HA.
JustTruth101 on February 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Please watch the name calling, Limerick and Cold Steel are here with their virgin ears.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Chosen, I will apologize for calling you a pus-filled boil if will stick more on topic. If you’re trying to be the Coulter of HA, I can appreciate that levity is needed, sometimes it gets too serious in here, so how about this: Save the insults for the other side, attack the enemy, not your fellow conservatives.
Maybe we can’t hear what you are saying because the way you present your ideas are couched in so many insults and inflammatory statements. I would like to hear what you have to say, as long as you don’t repeat it 20 times, and if you respond to what others post to you.
JustTruth101 on February 19, 2008 at 12:06 AM
JustTruth101 on February 19, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Thanks for the olive branch. I don’t mind that you called me puss filled whatever. What we think of ourselves is what’s important, not what Limerick, Cold Steel, or even me for that matter. They are only words MY FRIEND.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 12:12 AM
See, now that’s funny that you don’t care that someone called you puss filled. I don’t know why I find that amusing, but I do….thanks for the laugh and goodnight.
JustTruth101 on February 19, 2008 at 12:18 AM
I am still not going to reward McAmensty for winning by default. I will not vote for him. He does not ahre my core beliefs. I dont care if he loses, it wont be becuase of my vote, it will be because he lost, plain pure and simple. if he wanted to win, he needed to appeal to more people in his own party. Liberal repulicans like McCain, take the rest of us for granted. they expect us to fall in line. Even the local talk radio hosts are now telling us to hold out noses and fall in line. Guess what, I am staying true to my ideals and my principle, McCain be damned.
paulsur on February 19, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Ya know TCO, you aren’t gonna get everyone to pat Johnny Mac on the back. Look at Blacklake and me. We disagreed today on McCain being the have-to candidate. But ya know…when we hit heads, he took a second to ask me to qualify my position without taking my head off. We still disagree. To Blacklake the bottom line is the WOT. To Limerick the bottom line includes the border. But what Blacklake argues, in his posts, make me think. They don’t make me get my dukes up.
I’ve already said I’ll hold my nose and vote for McCain. That is conditional, however, on his running mate. An open borders running mate will mean I do stay home, and I haven’t done that since I started voting.
Limerick on February 19, 2008 at 12:22 AM
I personally don’t want The Chosen One banned, as he provides straw man arguments. His resorting to calling me Moron, Coward, etc is a reflection of him, not me.
Now enough of making this thread about The Chosen One, it feeds his already narcissistic ego.
Conservative Voice on February 19, 2008 at 12:25 AM
paulsur on February 19, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Come now. That’s not the team spirit we’re gonna need to stick it to Obamamessiah or Billary. Get on that Straight Talk Express. You’ll feel better. When he starts talking about carpet bombing tehran or damascus, you’ll get that squishy feeling like your first date.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 12:27 AM
Limerick
I wouldn’t stay home. It will be read wrong. Make your message loud and clear, and vote. A stay home vote will just be read as apathy, and you don’t strike me as the apathy type.
Conservative Voice on February 19, 2008 at 12:27 AM
That is conditional, however, on his running mate.
Limerick on February 19, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Uh oh. Hate to tell you, but Lindsey Graham will either be VP or SOS. Those two are like brothers. My peeps in the senate chamber say they are joined at the hip and you can see it when they are together in public. I like Lindsey Graham, unfortunately the same reason yall hate El Mavo will apply to Graham.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Personally I hope McCain picks Arlen Spector, as he will lose to Obama, and it will take two RINOs out of the Senate.
Conservative Voice on February 19, 2008 at 12:33 AM
I’ve just checked my crystal ball. It will be McCain/Romney…I think.
bojack on February 19, 2008 at 12:38 AM
bojack on February 19, 2008 at 12:38 AM
As much as Mav wants to unite the base, his love for his country trumps that. He knows Romelee doesn’t have that presidential fiber. He knows he’s no spring chicken and that the vp HAS to be ready to assume the role if needed. I may be wrong about Lindsey Graham, but it will definately not be a phony like Romney. Jim Demint after the Berkely/Marines fiasco aint lookin to bad.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 12:42 AM
I believe if you want to take the trouble to track quotes back, the issue wasn’t about making a choice between McCain and the Dem nominee, but rather the comment that McCain’s position on open borders should be taken with a grain of salt(ignored) because he is somehow responsible for victory in Iraq. I’m not about to go into an Obama swoon over McCain because he is the lesser of two evils, and if one of his groupies won’t quit spamming about him, he’s gonna get called on it. BTW, what ARE we going to do when McCain’s position on waterboarding creates an intelligence failure and innocent American casualties? Remind ourselves it would be worse if it were Obama? That should fix it right up.
a capella on February 19, 2008 at 1:16 AM
We’re stuck with McCain due to the MSM taking advantage of the extraordinary number of sheep they have at their beck and call these days; sheep don’t think, they just suckle at the glass teat.
The MSM was determined to nuke Fred and Mitt, and they saw Huckster as the perfect dupe to carry their water for McCain (and against Mitt) once Fred was out. There was never any substance to the Giuliani candidacy whatsoever.
The ignorance of the average American voter is breathtaking.
electric-rascal on February 19, 2008 at 1:23 AM
Funny, that’s precisely how I’d describe your typical post.
Widdling away, a truly effective tactic.
Deety on February 19, 2008 at 1:49 AM
TCO:
1 word for ya: “spellcheck”..
That’s, spell-freakin’-check – OK?
_
Cheney/Rove ’08, Just to piss you off!
heh
least1 on February 19, 2008 at 1:51 AM
To everyone who called Mitt a flip-flopper: I’m going to have a very enjoyable time the next few months watching you try to justify McCain’s inevitable “adjustments” on immigration, taxes, global warming, etc., etc., etc…
WasatchMan on February 19, 2008 at 5:53 AM
So, who are you to tell ME what to do? I will vote for McCain when he:
1. Fires and distances himself from Juan Hernandez
2. States that he is against the Mirida Initiative,
3. Will not support the current “back-door” new amnesty plan in Congress
4. Says that he will pardon Ramos and Campeon.
5. Puts a REAL conservative on the ticket.
Until then, I will NOT vote for him… and YOU cannot make me.
stenwin77 on February 19, 2008 at 7:41 AM
We would have won it 4 years ago if Jorge Bush hadn’t screwed things up so badly. He was too busy trying to pass amnesty.
stenwin77 on February 19, 2008 at 7:44 AM
In your dreams. Why don’t you just be a Democrat? Or are you?
stenwin77 on February 19, 2008 at 7:46 AM
Leave THE CHOSEN ONE alone. He has done more harm to the McCain campaign, single-hendedly, than anyone could have been paid to do.
Excellent job of pushing the base towards voting for a 3rd party candidate.
stenwin77 on February 19, 2008 at 7:59 AM
TCO::
Oh, come on
_
I don’t have peeps/a crew/a posse – nor do I pretend to have one (hint, wink,nudge) – but if I did, I’m sure they’d say you’re a pretentious, never-knowing-when-to-give-it-up, boor.
Other than that, I’m sure you’re a nice person.
heh
least1 on February 19, 2008 at 10:13 AM
What happened to the party of personal responsibility? Why are so many conservatives putting the blame on someone else other than those who failed to win the nomination?
Romney tried, and he failed.
Fred tried (or didn’t try) and failed.
If McCain even fit 6 out of 10 he’d get my vote. Either way, I’m not staying home. I’ll likely not vote for him, but that doesn’t mean I won’t vote.
You make a good point that few seem to be talking about here. Why is it that a state as red as Texas has no bearing anymore on who we elect as our nominee? How did did it happen that independents were allowed to decide this for us?
Why?
No one believes him.
Then he will not be our next president. It’s really that simple.
Esthier on February 19, 2008 at 10:15 AM
No love in here this morning. At least my cup of coffee still likes me.
THE CHOSEN ONE on February 19, 2008 at 10:20 AM
He failed mostly because evangelicals flocked to a clown with no conservative credentials and no serious program. Whether they did this because of anti-Mormonism or because they wanted a fellow evangelical as the nominee doesn’t matter: they did it, they split the vote, and McCain is the nominee.
So by all means, Esthier, let’s be grownup and responsible. Don’t like McCain? Voted for Huckabee? You’ve got no one to blame but yourself. Enjoy the harvest.
student on February 19, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Sometimes they fail because they screw up…sometimes they fail because voters aren’t smart enough to support the right guy.
bojack on February 19, 2008 at 3:56 PM
It won’t fix anything, but given what we have to choose from, that would be the most rational alternative. I’ve lived my entire life without once being presented with what I’d consider an ideal political candidate. I take what I can get, and do my best to avoid that which will cause the most damage.
Blacklake on February 19, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Well put. A lot of people think that sitting at home pouting with their arms crossed because they can’t get the candidate that they want makes them tough. Just gotta play the hand you’re delt.
bojack on February 19, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Stop making sense.
myamphibian on February 19, 2008 at 7:37 PM
The conservative talk show host and their failure to get behind Romney until a week before the primary that helped him decide to get out – is part of the reason we now have McCain. They again are going to demonize him until they help the democrats. He is better than any democrat even with his nonconservative positions. Get a grip- he is the best of the choices we have. We have a nation of sheep following Obama, no differeent than the Germans following Hitler. I am angry at the republicans for their wasteful spending and their compromise on important issues-but they are not socialist. How can so many people be so uninformed- wake up!
nnaus on February 20, 2008 at 5:34 PM
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