Video: “Dude” incident in Baltimore
posted at 6:20 pm on February 12, 2008 by Bryan
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A Baltimore city policeman is under investigation after this video surfaced. It captures an incident that took place at Baltimore’s Inner Harbor last summer. The Inner Harbor is where Baltimore meets the upper Chesapeake pretty much head on, and it’s both the city’s main tourist attraction and one of its heavier crime areas. Visible police patrols have cut down on the latter. The kids in the video were evidently skateboarding in an area where that’s prohibited, when the officer pulled up and told them to stop.
It appears that the officer told everyone to stop skateboarding and was in the process of leaving. However, one kid had his IPOD playing in his ears and probably didn’t hear him. After the kid is told again to stop skateboarding, he talks to the officer disrespectfully. The officer goes to confiscate his skateboard but the kid doesn’t comply, which leads to the officer forcefully collecting it from him. The kid obviously didn’t show any respect to the officer and deserved to get pushed around, while the officer obviously has some attitude (and probably authority complex) problems he needs to work out.
WBAL has a story about the suspension here.
Sterling Clifford, a spokesman for the Baltimore Police Department and the mayor’s office, says the incident involving Officer Salvatore Rivieri, a 17-year-old [sic] veteran, is the subject of an internal affairs investigation.
The video, apparently shot last summer, shows Rivieri putting the youth, 14-year-old Eric Bush, into a headlock and pushing him to the ground.
Rivieri told The Sun on Sunday that he did not know that the incident had been recorded or posted on the Internet. He acknowledged having encounters with skateboarders at the Inner Harbor, where skateboarding is banned, last summer, and told a reporter that he would watch the video on YouTube.
What do you think?
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Alright, Pablo. You’ve forced me to analyze this much more than it probably deserves! :)
Order #1 Stop skateboarding (kid claims he didn’t hear) You can believe him or not
Order #2 Don’t get defensive (basically an order to respect the officer and drop the attitude) Kid did not comply
Order #3 Stop talking (kid interrupted the officer while talking)
Order #4 Asked him where he was from (kid did not answer immediately)
Order #5 Office attempted to confiscate skateboard, kid physically resisted (a big no-no) Here I think the office could’ve verbally insisted the kid put the skateboard down and step back but instead the officer, maybe unfairly, decided to escalate the situation. However given the attitude and inability to comply with orders, the escalation might be defensible
A struggle ensues and I see the kid fall down, no headlock from what I saw.
Order #6 The office orders the kid to stay on the ground, the kid does not comply and starts to get up. You gotta give the officer benefit of the doubt here with a hand to hand situation, even given their differences in size the officer has the right to be forceful if a direct order is disobeyed that results in a physical struggle.
After that the officer scolds the kid who continues to be disrespectful. The adrenaline probably fueled cop too much, he could’ve been more professional, but I don’t see where he broke any law or rule. He just could’ve been more professional and not tarnished the image of authority, which I agree he did (but shouldn’t be fired for).
Enough?
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 9:13 PM
We realize that police read the posts here. Thanks for the link but let me put this in perspective for you.
I personally knew 3 linemen and 4 power plant workers who were killed in the line of duty. Many more who were injured to one degree or another. This spans over 30 years of course. Just ordinary guys doing their jobs when disaster struck. Just like Policemen only the linemen don’t seem to rate the extra respect that Policemen like the guy in the video seem to think is their due. Truth be told if a policeman talked to me like that I’d have no respect for him either and all he’d get from me would be malicious compliance.
You’ll also note that in SitRep’s 8:51 post that garbagemen rate number 5 on the list of most dangerous jobs.
Oldnuke on February 12, 2008 at 9:13 PM
See my comment above. Cops have the legal authority to act as doriangrey accurately described unless in so doing they transgress the law of the land themselves. As I said this is so obvious that it would be pointless to codify it in every legal document if were not for the insanity/stupidity of liberal thinking.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:14 PM
You might beat the RAP
but
You can’t beat the ride!
TheSitRep on February 12, 2008 at 9:19 PM
And that is a lawful order how?
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Individual liberty is a conservative value. If the law doesn’t allow the government the right to do it, the government has no right to do it, conservatively speaking.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Indeed.
HebrewToYou on February 12, 2008 at 9:22 PM
+1
I’d like to see something other then a random website.
Sums it up rather well.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 9:23 PM
I’m not a lawyer, and I don’t really like defending that guy either. I’ve said that I think he over-reacted a bit. Just trying to play DA a little.
It seems to me that he lawful order is to stop speaking when asked to shut up. Failure to comply with a simple “shut up” demonstrates that you are combative and I would expect a cop to react to that in a fair and proportionate way (subjective perhaps).
If not, then take that order off the list. You still have the others.
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 9:23 PM
I don’t disagree with your statement, but that’s not what doriangrey said. He didn’t really qualify like you did. I think most of us objected to what is on its face is a defense of overreaching government conduct. If you’re conservative, then you should understand why some people here would get a little uncomfortable with that.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 9:25 PM
There’s a little thing called the First Amendment that would like to disagree with you.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:26 PM
I had a Cop pull me over in a Grocery store parking lot once because I gave him “A Look” when I had to drive around him and another motorcycle cop. He ambushed me as I was getting out of my car and was really sh-tty asking what that “look” was all about.
So when I launched into my belief that he is not there to be in the way and hinder the free flow of traffic and that I paid his salary to protect and serve, he just stepped back and took a real good look at my car and said ” I’ll be keeping an eye out for you”
TheSitRep on February 12, 2008 at 9:26 PM
That’s not what “don’t get defensive” means, so how was he supposed to comply?
Buy Danish on February 12, 2008 at 9:27 PM
The cop might have handled this a little better, but those little ska punks spend hours trying to come up with ways to piss off cops. The ones who think getting arrested or beat up means they somehow ‘won’, anyway.
Skateboarding bans don’t exist to protect boarders. They exist to protect pedestrians. These assholes will plow right into somebody’s granny trudging along with a walker, then roll away like nothing happened. They’re as bad as kamikaze bike messengers. Tell them time and again to take it to an empty pool or vacant lot or something, and they start whining, “Skateboarding is not a crime!”
Know what? If you can declare something legal, so can I. So, from now on, beating the shit outta youse ain’t really a crime, either.
“I don’t have a father.”
I suppose he’s the second coming, then. Daughters can get by without fathers, although they tend to end up as strippers, but sons NEED fathers. Otherwise, they turn into dipshits like this kid.
When you hit bottom, stop digging. Even his friends were trying to shut him up. First rule of dealing with cops: Keep your goddamn mouth shut. Not that I always follow my own advice…
Plus, answering every single question with, “Dude, I didn’t do anything!” and interrupting the guy with the gun and badge is moronic and begging for a trip downtown.
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Nonsense. They exist to protect property. Skateboarders only hurt themselves and rails/benches they skate on. Don’t be ridiculous.
This cop acted a fool. The kid is no winner, but he shouldn’t have been assaulted.
HebrewToYou on February 12, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Pablo Honey,
Your equivalence between a police officer and a homosexual prison rapist is extreme and offensive. It is a police officer’s duty to sometimes subdue people. Your appeal to the offender’s age (he’s only 14 years old!) is nothing more than crass liberalism. Argue on a legal or philosophical (or strictly Christian) basis and I’ll try to respond to you with a counter-argument.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Did you tell him he’d be able to see what the hell he was doing better if he left it in his head? :-P
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Oh come now. I’m trying to be reasonable here. The 1A doesn’t apply to mouthing off to an officer when being given an order, and I suspect you know that. The kid was not holding a political rally or publishing a religious commentary, he was given an order to not interrupt the officer when he was speaking, and did not comply.
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Just because the kid wasn’t hospitalized doesn’t mean that he deserved a tune up for give a cop an “awe, ca’mon dude!”
I gave the last cop that wrote me a ticket an “awe, ca’mon dude”, but I’m lucky enough to live in a city with a professional police force. You know what their trick is to getting good officers? The screen them, train them well, and pay them well.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 9:35 PM
OK. I see you’re a deranged person, because I said no such thing.
Pardon me while I back away slowly. And I do mean back away, because….well, you know.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Great. Tell me what law does apply to that. And tell me where an officers power to dictate shut up orders to citizens comes from.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Actually I think we’re all still waiting for someone to cite a specific penal code, ANY penal code, or case law to that affect.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 9:37 PM
You haven’t yet proved that the government (in this instance represented by a distasteful cop) transgressed the law in any way. He had no “right” to act on non-liberal principles according to the prevailing liberal atmosphere, yet he didn’t break the law.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:39 PM
No. The First Amendment does not qualify our speech rights that way. And it certainly doesn’t allow the government the power to legally distinguish between what’s acceptable political speech and what’s unacceptable “mouthing off”.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Telling the kid not to call him “dude” was beyond his authority, actually. Not saying that he’s not allowed to tell the kid that, just that the kid didn’t have to comply with that order. Not a “non-liberal” principle so much as a constitutional one.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 9:42 PM
It troubles me that so many ostensibly smart people have absolutely no conception of the law, but have every nuance of brute government force so ingrained. Sam Adams must be spinning like a dervish.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:42 PM
OK, you try that next time you’re pulled over. Just start babbling away and not listening to the officer when he asks to see your license. Let us all know how that goes for you.
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Context matters. Clearly that child didn’t need to be subdued in so harsh a manner, whereas an older punk who was acting in a manner that could reasonably be construed as physically threatening the officer would demand a harsh response. No one could reasonably assume that more than 10 seconds into this encounter. This cop is petty tyrant, pure and simple.
phronesis on February 12, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Can you repeat that in English?
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:44 PM
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:39 PM
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Strawman. You’re required by law to produce your license when pulled over while driving. But you can say whatever you like while you’re doing it.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Yeah, me neither.
I did see, however, the cops hand around the kids throat throwing him down.
SouthernDem on February 12, 2008 at 9:47 PM
See, now you’re confusing speech and conduct. Of course I’d get in trouble for actively refusing to show a cop my license (presuming he had a good reason for doing so), since that’s conduct. But that’s not the same as calling a cop a “dude”, since doing that would be speech. See the difference here?
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 9:47 PM
quoted for truth.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Yes but my point was that in a moral, thinking society the qualification I made would be understood and unspoken. Liberalism has cauterized this discipline
Look the guy was an asshole, I think we’re all agreed on that, but until someone can prove to me that he exceeded his legal authority then I see see no threat to individual liberty.
It seems to me he was suspended for behaving in a non-liberal fashion. If I am correct (and I know little about American law – so please correct me if I’m wrong) liberalism presents a real here-and-now assault on individual liberty and freedom of conscience.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Yes we are. And we’ll wait forever, as such a law would be ridiculously unconstitutional.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Geez. Pecan Pie and some of his pals have been watching Judge Dredd way too often.
The only way a cop would have lawful authority to tell you to shut up is if what you’re doing is a criminal act – disturbing the peace, making threats of violence, that sort of thing. Other than that, I can say whatever I bloody well feel like. If my speech/conduct is not unlawful, the second that cop puts me in the chokehold and throws me on the ground, or slaps me around, or slaps the cuffs on me, he’s violated my civil rights under color of state authority. A good cop would recognize that, and act accordingly.
I generally appreciate law enforcement officers and what they do. I don’t comport myself rudely with law enforcement officers, and treat them with respect as they treat me with respect. However, I do not worship them or any other civil servant, nor am I willing to give people that are unfit to wear a badge – like this jerk in Baltimore – a pass just because he happens to be a cop.
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Pure drivel. You have absolutely no idea what the children in this video are like. Whether they are punks or just ordinary kids doing childish things. No one could have made a rational analysis of personality from what was in that video.
Complete load of crap. Every child needs both a father and a mother and a loving caring home. Some don’t have those luxuries. The “Strippers” comment is beneath contempt. What qualifies you to make the determination that this kid is anything other than a normal every day kid doing the things that they do much less a “Dipshit”.
Take your own advice here. The kid was scared, some big guy with a gun was yelling at him and being very intimidating. It’s pretty obvious that the kid had never been in that situation before and most probably is a decent sort. Further evidence of his non punkishness is his desire to call his mother and not his lawyer.
It wasn’t moronic just childish. The boy was just using the terms he’s familiar with. He has no experience. Similar to every other kid that age. If the cop had acted like a responsible adult instead of an overbearing bully this would never have hit youtube. It’s obvious that he (the cop) knew he was acting wrongly or he would not have cared if he was being recorded or not.
Get a clue. They’re on sale now at K-Mart.
Oldnuke on February 12, 2008 at 9:51 PM
No, he was suspended for assaulting a citizen that he didn’t have enough reason to arrest.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Really, I should know better by now than to get into these things. Nobody’s going to change their minds. The people who are convinced cops can do whatever they want, and that everything that comes out of their mouths is a lawful command, aren’t going to change that no matter what the videotape shows.
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 9:55 PM
The cop did the kid a favor. Probably kept him from doing this when ( if ) he grows up.
http://www.break.com/index/brick-hits-theif-in-face.html
Texyank on February 12, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Speaking of strawman. You’ve managed to turn this into a free speech debate, when nothing in that video has anything to do with a violation of, or an attempt to exercise free speech. It had to do with the conduct of both the cop and the kid. You asked me for case law showing that the the kid’s free speech rights were not being violated. But I say, free speech case law had nothing to do with it because the issue was the kids conduct.
I agree with aengus, where is the law that is broken on the cops side that deserves punishment other than not being nice?
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Don’t call me dude!
Freudian slips don’t come much better than this.
All joking aside I’m not just flinging the term “liberal” around like a curse word. I’ve explained why I thought some of the arguments expressed on this thread tied into a liberal thought process. You don’t agree? Fine, refute my arguments.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 9:57 PM
It has nothing to do with liberalism. It has to do with a cop behaving like a fascist over a very minor infraction.
Buy Danish on February 12, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Question: Does the video show the officer in question acting contrary to the legal principles he swore to uphold? If so, explain how. If you can it will change what comes out of my mouth (keyboard, technically). Like I said above a very good friend of mine was beat up by sadistic policemen.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Actually, dude, you did; and we’re still waiting for you to site some penal codes or case law proving your thesis.
Is that an order?
Read everything above you last post.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 10:02 PM
No, a desire for precision in statements of law is not “liberal cauterization”. Maybe I’m old school, but I think a man should say what he means and mean what he says. And if he makes a mistake in not doing so, then he should own up to it. I have enough respect for the commenters here to presume that they do this, and so I respond accordingly.
Two things that come to mind for excessive use of authority. First, ordering the kid not to call him “dude”. No legal authority to compel such a content-based restriction on speech, seems to me. Second, telling the kid to “shut up” when the kid tried to answer the cop’s accusation. He had a right to voice his protest, even if it’s later determined that he’s wrong on the substantive law (i.e. the skateboard ban).
So if the above is your definition of “liberalism” (and I’m not necessarily disagreeing there either), then that cop seems to me to be pretty “liberal” for trying to impair the kid’s speech liberty.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I understand the conservative argument against an oppressive government official, and I share the concern. I’m not defending this cop to the death, I said I thought he acted like a jerk, and that I thought he should be fired IF he physically threatened the kid, which is not on the tape. But I don’t understand the willful disregard for authority displayed in this discussion thread. Is it so hard to be quiet and listen to an order? I agree that we shouldn’t worship cops or follow an illegal order, but that wasn’t the situation here. Did the cop over-react? Probably. I’m still not convinced he doesn’t deserve another chance. What if he’s a good cop other than this clip?
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Another strawman. What is the law that the cop was enforcing? Hint: he’s suspended.
Pablo on February 12, 2008 at 10:05 PM
What the cop did was clearly illegal.
Cops are only permitted to use force to ensure compliance with lawful authority. The cop determined not to make an arrest or issue a citation. Confiscating the skateboard is illegal, since it was not evidence seized incident to an arrest, or subject to a warrant. Police are not allowed to seize property without due process.
Moreover, because there was no authority to take the skateboard, the force used to seize the skateboard was illegal. Illegal force used by the police is a violation of civil rights, and, if qualified immunity protections do not apply, subjects the officer to criminal charges such as assault or battery.
But why bother with this video? Go ahead and try to defend the police throwing a quadriplegic out of a wheelchair.
Sydney Carton on February 12, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Erm, when a cop orders you not to call him a “dude” because he thinks that’s disrespectful, that’s a classic case of a government official imposing a content-based restriction on speech. Unless that cop has a reason to believe that somehow the title “dude” presents some kind of national security or public safety risk or something along those lines, he didn’t have authority to compel the kid to stop calling him that.
Like I said, just because your facing down a cop doesn’t mean that you lose your right to free speech.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Of course the investigative process is weighing this now, but IMO? Two laws were broken–by the physical assault and verbal threats to a child. Not justified by the kid’s actions. Or speech either, if you care to include that.
inviolet on February 12, 2008 at 10:07 PM
This is what you’re looking for.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 10:08 PM
But see, for me the question is why do I have to, if I’m within my rights? The whole beauty of the Bill of Rights, in particular the First Amendment, is that we don’t have to have a good reason for doing things as long as they are within our rights enumerated the supreme law of the land.
Anyways, if he’s a “good cop”, then he needs to accept a just punishment and move on with his life. And besides, if the law isn’t his moral compass, then maybe he shouldn’t be enforcing it.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 10:13 PM
aengus:
The point is the absence of legal authority. A cop has no lawful authority to make me shut up or to be respectful. I will guarantee you that there is no enforceable statute on any state’s books that forbids talking over an officer or being less than reverent. That’s not a crime. A cop also has no right to sieze property without due process of law (asset forfeiture laws being a subject for another day). There’s no evidence that he impounded or gathered evidnce. He basically stole the kid’s skateboard. Possession of a skateboard isn’t a crime. There was also no (at least on the video) lawful reason for him to restrain the kid with the skateboard, or to seize his skateboard. The cop only has that authority as is ceded to him by law. Attempting to exercise authority that is NOT ceded to him by law itself is contrary to the legal principles that a law enforcement officer is sworn to uphold. They do not get to be laws unto themselves.
I hope that elucidates my point somewhat.
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 10:13 PM
He behaved boorishly, and overreacted emotionally, to a series of minor infractions. He’s a repellent man.
But to call this Fascist is too much. When General Franco’s men caught up with Lorca (a famous gay poet) they stuck a rifle up his anus, shot him and threw his corpse into an unmarked grave. That’s Fascist.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 10:14 PM
They exist to protect pedestrians.
I can’t tell if you’re screwing with me or not.
A while back, I had one of these broken rubbers slam into me, middle of the day in the business district. I’m a big guy, so he basically bounced off me, then kissed concrete. He looked up at me like he was about to mouth off, saw the look on my face, and decided to excercise the better part of valor. Guess he wasn’t as dumb as he looked.
If he had plowed into a five foot, ninety pound woman instead of a six foot, two fifty guy, would your concern be for him or her? You seem to think that never happens. I’ll admit, I’ve never seen it personally, but I’ve of it happening plenty of times. Sometimes they snatch purses while they’re at it, although that’s much rarer now than it used to be.
I’ve seen bike messengers plow into pedestrians plenty of times, been hit once or twice myself. What really sticks out is the time I saw one of the lunatics slam into the proverbial little old lady (with a cane, not a walker) in a cross walk. Prick just got back on his bike and rode away without a look back, leaving her lying in the middle of the street.
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Up until the “shot him” part I thought you were talking about a skit at the Folsom Street Fair.
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 10:15 PM
When the kid told the policemen that he did not have a father, I knew in that instant things were not going to go well. The kid’s lack of respect was typical of boys who grow up in fatherless households.
c3ichief on February 12, 2008 at 10:20 PM
You’re not impressing anyone.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Dude…
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 10:22 PM
You’re absolutely right. All the more reason for the legitimate authority figure to act, well, like a legitimate authority should: firm but not (for lack of a better word) psycho. As others on this thread have said or implied, calm authority, even unbending, gets a lot more respect from a kid than looks-like-insecurity screaming and assault. Kids have wonderfully accurate BS detectors.
inviolet on February 12, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Yes that does make it a bit clearer and I think I now get where you’re coming from. But if the kid’s statements are expressions of non-compliance do they constitute an attempt to obstruct the law? The issue isn’t that the kid called him “Dude” but that he repeatedly ignored the cop’s instructions.
Anyway I’m off to bed. Different time zones and all that. I’ll read replies in the morning. Goodnight.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 10:28 PM
ticticboom, those are called anecdotes. They alone do not form an argument.
I could give similar ones to the effect of knowing many skateboarders who only go riding at night in areas that are sporadically travelled. How does that prove anything?
The fact is that pedestrians aren’t the ones protected by anti-skateboarding law. It is the property — public and private — that is being protected. How often do you see No Biking or No Rollerblading signs? How about No Street Luge? It’s because of the damage done to property by aggressive skateboarding that these laws exist.
As Ron Burgandy might say, “It’s science.”
HebrewToYou on February 12, 2008 at 10:30 PM
I’m not interested in impressing anyone. I just think the word Fascist is grossly misused. It’s tossed around like a curse word against anyone who displays cruelty of any magnitude regardless of scale or context. Or its used as a shorthand to easily explain things that no one is bothered learning about like Islam (”Islamo-Fascism”).
Night.
aengus on February 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM
The cop might have handled this a little better, but those little ska punks spend hours trying to come up with ways to piss off cops. The ones who think getting arrested or beat up means they somehow ‘won’, anyway.
I know ska punks. These were ska punks. They’re not all total scum, the others at least had some common sense. But that kid was, through stupidity or malice, pissing off the cop. I suppose he has the right to piss off cops, I know people who make careers out of it, but don’t expect any sympathy from me.
I suppose he’s the second coming, then. Daughters can get by without fathers, although they tend to end up as strippers, but sons NEED fathers. Otherwise, they turn into dipshits like this kid.
Here’s an assignment: Go to a strip club, and poll the girls on how many had dads who helped raise them and stuck around until they were at least out of high school. Russian girls don’t count. And since when is a father a ‘luxury’? As to this kid, as far as I know, skating on a pedestrian walkway goes against both the law and common sense just about everywhere. Unless there’s a shortage of vacant lots in B-more I don’t know about, they were looking for trouble.
When you hit bottom, stop digging. Even his friends were trying to shut him up. First rule of dealing with cops: Keep your goddamn mouth shut. Not that I always follow my own advice…
At fourteen, I knew enough not to provoke cops. And even the real dirtbags I knew didn’t have lawyers on their speed dial. If you think this kid’s not a punk, you probably think Rodney King was just minding his own business when fascist cops assaulted him for NO REASON!
Plus, answering every single question with, “Dude, I didn’t do anything!” and interrupting the guy with the gun and badge is moronic and begging for a trip downtown.
I, and my friends, knew how to talk to cops at that age. The punk’s friends knew. As I said, they tried to get him to shut up, too. The cop overreacted, true, but I can’t blame him too much. And I know I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be on youtube, either, regardless of the circumstances. It’s easy to make anyone look bad with selective editing.
Why don’t you go get yourself a nice big cup of STFU?
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Being an esotericist doesn’t make you smart, it makes you vain.
liquidflorian on February 12, 2008 at 10:40 PM
I agree with that, but I don’t think that’s the only reason the cop reacted how he did
I won’t dispute this, but it may still get you placed in custody temporarily. It’s being uncooperative, and common sense tells me that would be a good idea.
Temporary confiscation during a confrontation would fall outside due process?
Ok, I agree the cop was out of line when he took the skateboard. I’m not sure it constitutes “assault” though.
I’m done with the free speech side of this argument. It’s dull. There’s no link to the first amendment in this video in my opinion. Besides, those taking the kids side are also mainly upset about what the cop had to say. Did he check his free speech rights in the locker room?
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Even if what the cop did wasn’t illegal – he still ought to be fired. He’s an employee of an organization and he represents that organization. If one of my employees got on a power trip and started shouting at my clients, I’d fire them. This cop may not be breaking the law, but by having a tantrum (an impression accentuated by his little shorts and cute little novelty car) in public, being petty and pushing around a kid for no good reason, he is tarnishing the public image of the police department.
rjjago on February 12, 2008 at 10:42 PM
Did the guy hurt the kid?
No.
The kid was acting like a punk, so the cop treated him like one.
What’s the problem?
Saltysam on February 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Okay, you’re serious. Seriously stupid, but serious. I’m sure when city councils pass these laws, they’re thinking about scraped paint, not broken bones.
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM
“The kid was scared,”
Only after he got caught breaking the law and boarding where he wasn’t allowed to. Too little too late. He should have been scared to board there in the first place. That’s the unspoken affects of laws isn’t it, to scare one from breaking them or pay the consequences. A little over reaction on the cop, but with the punk mouthed teens now adays, the community should thank him for helping the village train the village idiot.
rayvet on February 12, 2008 at 10:46 PM
“You got that camera on? If I see myself on” – dude, you DESERVE to be humiliated. And I’m talking about the cop. I was a brat when I was a teenager, and the cops never treated me like that…they were tough enough to get my attention but not so badly that I would resent it…I actually respected them for their toughness and ability to treat me like a human being, especially when I was not deserving of such treatment.
JustTruth101 on February 12, 2008 at 10:47 PM
Besides the fact they have a life threating job and put themselves at risk to serve your sorry ass?
Everyone should be treated with respect. That kid clearly doesn’t know the meaning of such, and I applaud the officer for smacking him around. And stop crying about civil liberties. He’s a kid, not an adult, and doesn’t deserved to be treated as such.
Chest_Rockwell on February 12, 2008 at 10:48 PM
The assault wasn’t taking the skateboard (though that was wrong too). The assault was taking the kid around the neck and tossing him to the ground.
Then peevishly shoving him down again while yelling (and swearing at him) instead of, for example, placing a hand or two on a shoulder and calmly but loudly saying I am ordering you to sit down. Notice that the kid (and yes, he was being disrespectful but he’s the KID) didn’t resist in the least, except to grab hold of his skateboard. Pretty good control I’d say, for a 14 year old who didn’t expect a big guy with a gun to get up in his face and grab him.
The cop was the aggressor in this situation, physically and verbally.
inviolet on February 12, 2008 at 10:54 PM
That’s the crux of the debate then because I think the cop did that in response to the kids failure to comply and handover the skateboard.
COP: Give me skateboard
KID: NO
Cop attempts to take skateboard
Kid struggles against cop
Cop subdues kid
He should have just let go of the skateboard. Perhaps if it was wrong to take the skateboard he could’ve claimed illegal seizure or whatever, but he shouldn’t resist the cop either. That will get a response.
That’s not what I saw. I saw him yell at the kid to stay down, the kid disobeyed and tried to stand up so the cop pushed him back down. Again…why can’t the kid just follow the order?!?
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Man, I’ve way overanalyzed this stupid video. Thanks for the debate though. Back to politics keeping Hillary out of the White House…
pecan pie on February 12, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Dude!
Insomniac on February 12, 2008 at 11:05 PM
ticticboom, address the argument. Calling me stupid is a bit juvenile.
Chest_Rockwell, children cannot have their civil liberties violated outside of their home or school. They are afforded the same protections we are. Police officers have no power to resort to violence unless threatened! That kid was no threat. Don’t be ridiculous.
HebrewToYou on February 12, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Hmm, calling it “dull” gives me the impression that you’re taking the speech issue a little too much for granted. Not a good thing in this day and age, as a certain Mr. Levant would tell you. As Americans, we should be wary of anything and everything that hints at an imposition on this fundamental right, especially when involves someone who can illegitimately use his power to do so.
Anyways yes, the cop does have speech rights while on duty. And he’s probably within his rights to tell the kid to shut up, though he can’t really force the kid to do so legally.
NorthernCross on February 12, 2008 at 11:06 PM
As I said those laws vary to some degree from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. However what does not vary is 18 USC Section 401, which is where the police derive their actual authority.
Police officers are officers of the court, bingo bango bongo, like it or not there it is there.
doriangrey on February 12, 2008 at 11:09 PM
I find it somewhat surprising that a lot of commenters in this thread seem to be more nervous about a young skateboarder kid with a bit of an attitude than they are about a full grown man with a huge chip on his shoulder and a position of authority that seems to make him believe that he has the right to do and say anything to anyone.
Yoosaion on February 12, 2008 at 11:14 PM
And the quick stalk up to the kid – a threatening move in itself, while yelling (how could the kid know what was coming?) and the grab of the skateboard was in response to the officer’s anger and lack of control at the disrespect shown by the kid.
Listen to everything the officer says again and imagine it being delivered in a calm tone of voice. That would have been an officer concerned for the kid, not himself. The yelling is the giveaway that this is revenge on the kid for the personal insult that the respect is perceived as.
All due respect but that’s not what I saw. I saw:
Kid says he didn’t hear cop’s order
Cop yells at kid
Kid replies disrespectfully
Cop gets angrier
Cop starts yelling at kid
Cop stalks quickly up to kid, grabs skateboard
Kid does not struggle, only holds on to skateboard
Cop with hands around neck, pushes kid to ground
Cop yells and swears
Kid makes no attempt to take back skateboard, no threatening moves, tries to get up
Cop pushes kid down again, swearing at him.
I don’t know about you, but if a cop suddenly started walking fast up to me while yelling, I’d be pretty freaked out. Kid was small. He didn’t run, never yelled, never even raised voice, never hit or struggled.
Yes, the kid should’ve followed the orders. And the police officer, I still maintain, belongs in jail for this little performance. Why the concern about the camera if he knew he was all right in what he was doing?
inviolet on February 12, 2008 at 11:15 PM
You can say that again.
inviolet on February 12, 2008 at 11:15 PM
I grew up, got married,had kids,loved cops.3 years ago there was an incident at my Neighbors house,I got beat up in front of my son,who was 14 at the time,guess what? ANOTHER cop hater
(and I’m one as well),We ride skateboards as well,and at 150$ a pop I won’t just give one up.All that aside,my son and I have great respect for the pigs,cos it might get you out of trouble,
Bob
Bobnormal on February 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM
I say the purpose of anti-skateboarding laws is to protect pedestrians from being injured by morons on wheels.
You say the purpose is to protect paint from being scraped off rails and benches. Or was it to prevent lawsuits? Filed by whom? People who were slammed into by skateboarders. Who you seem to think don’t exist. ‘Anectodes’ my ass.
You may not be wrong about everything. I don’t know you, and I don’t want to know you. About the cop overreacting, you may have a point.
But on the subject of skating bans and the reasons for them, you are an idiot. If saying that makes me juvenile, all I have to say is, “Duuude…”
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM
Oh Cali,(southern)we have the best skateparks on the PLANET!,we don’t get harrassed by the pigs for riding,and it appears many are located near copshops,HMMMMM………….?
Bob
Bobnormal on February 12, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Classic. I can’t wait to use this next time I hear some lib whine about how the cop who gave him a ticket is such a fascist.
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 11:28 PM
ticticboom,
It’s just crazy to suggest that a city might seek to ban the destruction of public property. Because that’s never happened before. Totally foreign concept! Skateboards are no more a threat to public safety than bikes, rollerblades, or street luges.
Yet somehow, for some odd reason, they tend to be banned much more regularly than those other “sports.” Funny, eh.
HebrewToYou on February 12, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Wow, after reading all these comments, I’m thinking this little punk got what he deserved. Then I watched the video and waited for the part where this kid acted like a punk…and waited…and waited. This officer was way out of line. I’m all for beating down Mr. “Don’t Tase Me Bro,” but all this kid did was mumble something under his breath. The cop seemed to be out looking for a fight.
bojack on February 12, 2008 at 11:41 PM
We’ve already been over the dangerous job part, you must have missed it. Garbage man comes in at number 5 most dangerous job Lineman at number 7 with cops not even making it to the top 10. OBTW how’s Dirk doing these days?
Oldnuke on February 12, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Well, I think it was a little disrespectful when the cop asked “You from the County or something?”
I work for a county, not in Maryland though. He needs to show more respect for counties.
As far as the kid goes, just take his skateboard and smack him up along side his head. The was cops did back in the day.
Kept me out of jail. I knew that if a cop kicked my ass and sent me home, my Dad would kick my ass for making the cop kick my ass. None of this “My little Johnny wouldn’t do that.” My parents knew that I would and probably had.
Close enough.
I’ve been to the Inner Harbor. Nice place. Didn’t notice any crime. My wife was naturalized at the Federal Courthouse there.
schmuck281 on February 12, 2008 at 11:43 PM
The difference between many cops and many thugs is a badge. If the officer wants to be taken seriously he should wear a uniform that doesn’t look like a clown outfit.
roux on February 12, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Put the self-righteous indignation down and back away, slowly.
Skateboarders tend to be idiotic little punks much more likey than the others to either not pay attention to what’s in front of them or not give a damn if they slam into someone. Add in the whole grinding thing (yes, having to repaint or repair every rail and bench in sight whenever they strike gets annoying) and it should be obvious that letting them roam free where ever they feel like is not a good idea.
In places where morons do tricks on rollerblades or bikes among pedestrians, bikes and blades get banned, too. Only takes a few to ruin it for the many. Keep it in the skate parks, stop whining like you’re being sent to the gulag, and the cops’ll leave you alone. Even the assholes.
And anyone who street luges without closing off the road first should be shot before they pollute the gene pool. Actually, never mind, they’ll take themselves out of it before anyone can catch up to them.
ticticboom on February 12, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Who among those mentioned above are you going to call in an emergency. Bottome line, when the **** hits the fan we ungrateful civilians call cops, firefighters, or soldiers. Whether you think their job is dangerous or not these guys would put their lives on the line for yours without hesitation.
bojack on February 13, 2008 at 12:01 AM
I honestly think the police force attracts (and ends up hiring) confrontational jerks. I agree the little punk was annoying, but this was totally uncalled for. I’m surprised he didn’t taze the kid.
packsoldier on February 13, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Classic bully. Only he comes with a badge.
He’s short, so the only people he can really bully is a 14 year old kid.
And not for nothing, I didn’t read all the comments so I don’t know if anyone else noticed or not, but that’s a pretty good quality video. If that cop didn’t know he was being recorded he’s a moron. That was no hidden camera.
Jaynie59 on February 13, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Relax, officer. It’s kids on skateboards, and although skateboarding is prohibited there, and with good reason since some of the skaters would blast through running into pedestrians, they aren’t breaking into cars or worse. You can’t let the kids be in charge, but you’re supposed to be the adult here. By acting that way, you’ll never get the respect that you demand for a police officer’s badge. I’ve worn one for 25 years now.
AmericanDad on February 13, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Actually, individual liberty is the basic tenant of Classical Liberalism; conservatives may like to believe they own it now, but you still need to get your facts straight on political theory.
Nonfactor on February 13, 2008 at 12:23 AM
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