Conservative illuminati meet to decide: Is Mitt the chosen one?

posted at 5:39 pm on February 11, 2008 by Allahpundit

To make it extra dismal, the meeting was held immediately after he dropped out at CPAC, bested by a guy who’s having trouble beating Mike Huckabee.

From the ashes of failure, a phoenix of new failure is born!

Some 50 stalwarts of the political right privately met with Mitt Romney minutes after he dropped out of the Republican nominating race to discuss the former Massachusetts governor becoming the face of conservatism, as Ronald Reagan became en route to his 1980 election win…

“The purpose of the meeting was for him to announce his willingness to fight shoulder to shoulder with true conservatives from here on out,” said political strategist Paul Erickson, who worked for Mr. Romney”s campaign. “He did just that.”…

“If someone had suggested a year ago and a half ago that we would be welcoming Mitt Romney as a potential leader of the conservative movement, no one would have believed it,” Mr. Keene said to open the meeting. “But over the last year and a half, he has convinced us he is one of us and walks with us.”…

“The movement needs someone of Ronald Reagan’s stature and Romney could fill that role,” [Jay] Sekulow told The Washington Times yesterday.

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before? We’ve got Sanford, Jindal, Pawlenty, and who knows who else looking at elected office in 2010 (Steele?). If science catches a few breaks, we may even have Zombie Gipper! Exit question: How about before naming Mitt the next Reagan, we let him prove first that he’s the next George H.W. Bush?


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They have to do something with the time they’re spending not supporting McCain.

dedalus on February 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Already running for 2012. Like this primary season wasn’t long enough.

- The Cat

MirCat on February 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before?

Worse, it’s pretty pathetic that we’re essentially handing the Dems this election and assuming McCain won’t be an incumbent in 2012.

RightWinged on February 11, 2008 at 5:45 PM

I see nothing wrong with Mitt Romney as he is well spoken and poised. I believe his ‘changes’ on issues are genuine.

Even if it doesn’t put him as the candidate, it would pay to have someone who is confident and well spoken to be the new ‘face’.

Just my $.02

Utah Boy on February 11, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Yep, there are plenty of choices to go to before we go to Romney, he’s trying to get in good terms with conservatives, but he’s not there yet. We should look to guys like Jindal for 2012.

doubleplusundead on February 11, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Great … while the conservative illuminati meet and discuss the future, the evil illuminati is in the process of destroying what’s left of the free world.

darwin on February 11, 2008 at 5:46 PM

The Huckabee 2012 campaign is already underway. Mitt may as well get an early start, too.

RightOFLeft on February 11, 2008 at 5:47 PM

We need more than just a conservative. We need a business leader and Mitt fits the bill. Enough of the beltway boys club, why is preparing Mitt a bad thing?

cannonball on February 11, 2008 at 5:51 PM

This is why VP choice is critical.

davidk on February 11, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Can I be part of Conservative Bohemian Grove instead? I think they would have toga parties and dance around an owl or something more fun than hangin’ with Romney at the Omni.

Not that I’m at all anti-Romney. I think he can bring himself around nicely by 2012.

see-dubya on February 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM

Cool. “true conservatives” are willing to have a phony as their poster child for the foreseeable future.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 5:53 PM

Most of the people at that meeting will probably die before 2012.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 5:54 PM

If Mitt’s committed to the work it will take during the next four years, then I’m behind him 100%.

RushBaby on February 11, 2008 at 5:54 PM

Two points.

One: the face of conservatism for the next 4 years will not be a governor. That doesn’t even necessitate another campaign. Newt held that role for a while.

Two: Your presumption is ‘more of the same’. Change is the one constant and success comes from those who can see and adapt from their loses to create success.

Spirit of 1776 on February 11, 2008 at 5:55 PM

Why the hell does anyone care about 2012 right now? They could dig up Ronnie hizself, sprinkle him with stem cells, and defib him…….and it won’t change 08. My party is headless, armless, and legless and wishing upon a star ain’t gonna change it. All this 2012 talk is just denial from all the cows in the party who suddenly realized they are going to the slaughter pen and not the milking barn.

Limerick on February 11, 2008 at 5:56 PM

I think Bobby Jindal and/or Michael Steele in particular is better suited to lead the movement. Why not let a lead emerge naturally? Why rush?

Zorro on February 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM

I’m glad he quit. Shows he doesn’t have the balls to lead, the way he quit. So Huckster and McCainiac are mean. You think they compare with Putin, Chavez or AhnevermetajobIdidright?

As my Shakespeare prof says – Looooooooooser!

HIllary’s got bigger balls than him!

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 5:59 PM

We need more than just a conservative. We need a business leader and Mitt fits the bill. Enough of the beltway boys club, why is preparing Mitt a bad thing?

cannonball on February 11, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Sure, but why put all your eggs in one basket? Conservative =\= beltway boys.

doubleplusundead on February 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM

The Huckabee 2012 campaign is already underway. Mitt may as well get an early start, too.

RightOFLeft on February 11, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Huckabee will be re-elected in 2012.

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM

To the “Anti-Hucksters”:
Keep your words soft and sweet. You’ll have to eat them later.

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM

LOL….Huck re-elected? When you wish upon a star……..

Limerick on February 11, 2008 at 6:02 PM

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before?

Come on Allah. This was not a two man race and Huck’s alliance with McCain had a lot to do with it, as did people investing too much hope in Fred Thompson. Fred really was a useless candidate and screwed things up far more than he helped the conservative cause. Why not toss a little snark his way? He ended up being nothing but a distraction and a spoiler.

Buy Danish on February 11, 2008 at 6:05 PM

I’m not sure about Mitt, but I like to see something proactive happening. We’ve had 7 years to find a conservative figurehead we could promote to early frontrunner status (well make that 15 years or more) and the conservative movement has just sat back waiting for one to emerge. That has not and did not happen. It’s time to go out and find one, because they are not coming out of the woodwork, unfortunately. But I don’t think we should casually throw that status around. I haven’t gotten over my doubts and concerns about Romney, but I’m warming to him on how he’s handled himself lately. I agree with Bryan’s “What’s Next for Romney” post. He needs to earn it. And he CAN do that. But we shouldn’t hand it to him.

pecan pie on February 11, 2008 at 6:05 PM

ron paul 2012

offroadaz on February 11, 2008 at 6:05 PM

bested by a guy who’s having trouble beating Mike Huckabee.

There’s a reason that Huckabee became much harder to beat right after Mitt dropped out, you know.

It’s pretty obvious too.

Never underestimate the sheer, unadulterated, profound ecstasy of jamming a thumb in the eye of backstabber McFeingold. My only regret is that I can’t do it THRICE.

Misha I on February 11, 2008 at 6:08 PM

To the “Anti-Hucksters”:
Keep your words soft and sweet. You’ll have to eat them later.

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Amen, brother. Praise the Lord. Hallelujah!

Uh, one question: Does that mean I have to buy a burka for my daughter or what? I get the religious-fascist groups confused…

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Huckabee will be re-elected in 2012.

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM

Of what, the Confederacy?

RightOFLeft on February 11, 2008 at 6:11 PM

ron paul 2012

offroadaz on February 11, 2008 at 6:05 PM

R.I.P.

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before?

If Flipper works very hard for conservative causes over the next four years, and shows he can take on liberal Democrats like John McCain, he will get my support.

His refusal to engage McCain from the right in the campaign spoke volumes about his credibility as a conservative.

Valiant on February 11, 2008 at 6:19 PM

I like Mitt. When Fred! left the race, he was an acceptable second choice.

But I want someone who has an established history of conservatism that doesn’t require a spreadsheet (i.e. conservative rankings) to explain why they are conservative.

I know why I believe Fred! is a conservative.
I know why I believed Newt was a conservative back in 1994.
I know why Reagan defined conservatism.

I don’t have to read between the lines with any of those people. I KNOW why they are conservative. And that is the type of candidate I want in 2012, since we sure as hell don’t have one in 2008.

Conservative 2012! Can one please step up to the plate? Please????

SimplyKimberly on February 11, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Can we get a freaking eloquent conservative to give the speech at the convention for christ sakes? He needs no experience at all. All he needs is the ability to put words together to sound pretty, and then HE can be our nomine in 2012

muyoso on February 11, 2008 at 6:22 PM

To the “Anti-Hucksters”:
Keep your words soft and sweet. You’ll have to eat them later.

ITookTheRedPill on February 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Absolute nonsense. Huckabee is a conniving gibot who puts Mexico’s interests above America’s. How’s that for soft and sweet.

RushBaby on February 11, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Forget 2012 for now, Mitt for Chairman of the RNC. Let him do what he does best.

Pal2Pal on February 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Absolute nonsense. Huckabee is a conniving gibot who puts Mexico’s interests above America’s. How’s that for soft and sweet.

RushBaby on February 11, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Very Well Said

SimplyKimberly on February 11, 2008 at 6:26 PM

Conservative 2012! Can one please step up to the plate? Please????

SimplyKimberly on February 11, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Maybe one of our gracious hosts…

mikeyboss on February 11, 2008 at 6:28 PM

This is something I saw coming. The Newt has been uttering / babbling for years and chickened out this time and ran from congress when they turn the heat on him.

So, I say Newt is cojoneless. Or at least shiveriled.

Ronald Reagan has passed on.

Huckabee is goofyier than all hedoublel and will be a flash in the pan.

My liberal grandson is more conservative than Jaun.

Jeb Bush is less conservative than his bro’.

Mitt talks the part, acts the part and is obviously learning the part.

Mitt-2012

Onager on February 11, 2008 at 6:28 PM

CONSERVATISM IS DEAD. If romeny wants to be the poster child for a movement that no longer has legs, it’s his funeral.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Forget 2012 for now, Mitt for Chairman of the RNC. Let him do what he does best.

Pal2Pal on February 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM

O.M.G. Brilliant!

Who do I need to call about that?

Utah Boy on February 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Forget 2012 for now, Mitt for Chairman of the RNC. Let him do what he does best.

Pal2Pal on February 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM

I think he’s overqualified for that post.

NTWR on February 11, 2008 at 6:35 PM

Forget 2012 for now, Mitt for Chairman of the RNC. Let him do what he does best.

Pal2Pal on February 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM

He’d never do it. Means he couldn’t run. It would be unseemly. Don’t think he’s willing to make the sacrifice.

But, how about Santorum? Does he have the skill to run the RNC?

Republicans have a pathetic field because they believe it unseemly to get their hands dirty in political fighting. People need leaders, not connivers.

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 6:37 PM

From the ashes of failure, a phoenix of new failure is born!

Nice. Not quite what I expected.

a year ago and a half ago

Heh.

OneGyT on February 11, 2008 at 6:38 PM

Exit question: How about before naming Mitt the next Reagan, we let him prove first that he’s the next George H.W. Bush?

Huh?! Please God NOOOOOOoooooooooooooo! We’re not likely to survive another Bush.

Gregor on February 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM

But, how about Santorum? Does he have the skill to run the RNC?

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 6:37 PM

Good suggestion.

Buy Danish on February 11, 2008 at 6:41 PM

I love Jindal. No doubting his conservative bona fides. Plus, he’s young, accomplished, without scandal, very charismatic, AND a minority. I hope he does good things in LA that set him up for national success down the road. Someone better be grooming him for bigger and better things.

RW Wacko on February 11, 2008 at 6:53 PM

For historical perspective, imagine what the Dems were saying just moments after Obama gave his ‘big speech’ that garnered him such acclaim at the last Dem Convention. Did ‘they’ pull him aside and say ‘will you drink the Kool-Aid, Mr. Obama?’ Meanwhile, back at Billary Headquarters, the countdown to 2008 had probably already started.

Sure, anything can happen in the next 4 years. But by starting to build a smart foundation now, the country will be ready for someone like Mitt in 2012. How do any of you know that ‘they’ haven’t already approached Steele or Jintal in private?

Off-topic: it is telling that the Democrats, given their vast field of potential candidates, have selected a white woman and a black man as their front-runners. I do hope that the delegate counts remain neck & neck so that we can sit and watch the cannibalization of their party unfold.

Biffstir on February 11, 2008 at 6:56 PM

Jindal, apologies

Biffstir on February 11, 2008 at 7:01 PM

Are these true conservative leaders planning on running Mitt vs prez maverick?

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 7:13 PM

Cool. “true conservatives” are willing to have a phony as their poster child for the foreseeable future.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 5:53 PM

Just about.

And even if Romney was authentic and even if he actually was conservative and even if he actually had any core principles whatsoever – in other words, if you ignore all of the factual reality and replace it with the wistful illusions of the unthinking dreamers – you’d still have to be just about drowning in the Kool-Aid to compare Romney to Reagan.

Even if everything the poor deluded smitten with Mittens crowd pretends was actually true – it would still be painfully laughable to mention his name alongside Reagan’s.

Anyone actually old enough to remember Reagan should probably either be offended or doubled over with laughter. Or both.

Romney the new Reagan? That’s adorable.

Professor Blather on February 11, 2008 at 7:17 PM

For historical perspective, imagine what the Dems were saying just moments after Obama gave his ‘big speech’ that garnered him such acclaim at the last Dem Convention. Did ‘they’ pull him aside and say ‘will you drink the Kool-Aid, Mr. Obama?’
Biffstir on February 11, 2008 at 6:56 PM

Everyone who wants to be prez has to drink the Kool-Aid. Even Mitt is a CFR guy.

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 7:19 PM

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before?

Are the RINOs so powerful in 2008 that we have to settle for the moonbat droppings put forth by the Rudy/McCain extremists? Our best shot is ceding this year to the anti-Christian left and work at fielding a legitimate Republican in 2012 without the shrill intolerant RINOs.

highhopes on February 11, 2008 at 7:20 PM

The GOP should embrance Mitt Romney’s intellect and competence. We could do a whole lot worse than a guy with dual degrees from Harvard and success in his genetics.

therightwinger on February 11, 2008 at 7:21 PM

I think David Keene of the conservative union should apologize to Maverick. If he wants to have secret meetings with Mitt, that’s fine. Just don’t invite Mav to speak to his irrelevant constituency.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 7:22 PM

Fred should start now. That way he can campaign at his leisure.

Troy Rasmussen on February 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

campaign at his leisure.

Troy Rasmussen on February 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM

Heh. Good one.

IrishEi on February 11, 2008 at 7:52 PM

These vary same people were busting on him a few months ago. They are spending their time giving the election to Obama or Clinton. If one of them win and they give us a liberal judge or two some will blame the whole thing on them.

KBird on February 11, 2008 at 7:58 PM

None of these guys should run again. None of them were up to snuff this time, and they still won’t be next time. We need to start fresh next time. As the Obamanation says, “CHANGE!” (It’s what’s for dinner.)

Jindal, Palin, Sanford, Pawlenty, Barbour, Cornyn, DeMint, Santorum, Steele, Watts, Hensarling, Pence, etc, etc, etc. Let’s vet them and recruit them now. Why be passive? Why wait for someone to rise to the top naturally when we can be proactive? The party elite are always going to choose unacceptable compromise candidates or guys whose “turn” it is. We need some grassroots mojo for 2012!

Need I remind everyone that our next candidates need to be queued up and ready to run as early as 2010? Sounds like Mitt and maybe Huck are already running for 2012. We can’t wait to recruit a real conservative and great campaigner until 2011, or it will be too late.

Yes, we need to be talking about 2012 already. No, Mitt’s not The One.

aero on February 11, 2008 at 7:59 PM

Are we assuming this country will be around in 2012?

saved on February 11, 2008 at 8:35 PM

Even Mitt is a CFR guy.

mksmithwriter on February 11, 2008 at 7:19 PM

I am SO tired of hearing that when it’s not true.

Mitt isn’t a CFR member (whereas McCain is). Yes I know Weld supports him but Weld also claims to be a supply side groupie, so he probably supports Mitt for that reason. Romney blocked illegals from getting tuition and licences in MA and had Dr. Kobach as an adviser, in stark contrast to Hernandez, for example.

Mitt hasn’t shown that he’s beholden to the CFR AT ALL, and his actions back that up.

I think Mitt taking the mantle and spreading the word is spot on. The reason the party has moved left is because we don’t have an articulate leader who can get the message out and make it relevant to people. Mitt could do that and as a bonus, confirm his bona fides with conservatives who have reservations.

Jindal, who is great, has a state to run. I do worry a little that if he ran in 2012 straight away, he’d be decried as inexperienced. But then I thought that people would think Obama had no experience and here we are, two years into his Senate career and he leads the Dem delegate totals. Unbelievable.

CONSERVATISM IS DEAD.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Hmm… I guess I missed the election where you were appointed GOD, Chosen One. You are an example of the problem; liberals in the GOP have lured other libs into the party, who now want it to be… a liberal party.

We’ve already got one of those.

linlithgow on February 11, 2008 at 8:38 PM

Mitt can’t win the Evangelicals in the South. Like it or not, he just can’t. The conservative illuminati is out of their collective mind if they think Republicans can win without those voters. It’s like trying to win without veterans or business owners. They need to find someone else that hasn’t been roundly rejected by a third of the party. You don’t have to give them the idiot they love (Mike “Huey Long” Huckabee), but you won’t convince them to vote for a Mormon.

Conservatives should be willing to confront reality as it is, not as they wish it were.

The Apologist on February 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

Dear God!! Not Pawlenty. Not a mass transit, stadium subsidizing, smoking ban, global warming freak governor. This RINO won’t even give Minnesota a tax cut.

hinduconservative on February 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM

Pawlenty

I used to like him before he drank the gore kool aid. He’s another talk conservative/govern liberal dude.

peacenprosperity on February 11, 2008 at 9:13 PM

Are we assuming this country will be around in 2012?

barry wins the suicide bombing will begin in short order and he will look around for someone to apologize to. You people in New York better buy flak jackets and helmets.

peacenprosperity on February 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Is our bench so thin for 2012 that conservatives have to coalesce now around someone who flamed out literally minutes before?

Dude, Romney stood ZERO chance of winning the nomination and you, I, and everyone in that room knew it. Mitt cut his losses so he could focus on something like this. Why should he continue a fruitless slapfight with Huck and McCain when pulling out essentially removes Huckabee from the race and removes his delegates for VP leverage in a single sweeping blow?

Romney may not have won the nomination, but he certainly outplayed Huck and put himself in a better position than McCain insofar as conservatives AND the GOP are concerned.

BKennedy on February 11, 2008 at 9:17 PM

Mitt cut his losses so he could focus on something like this.

he needs to make speaches, write op eds and be very visual and very specific about his positions. The next two years will be a mess no matter who is president and we can only hope it will lead to a big conservative win in 2010. He can campaign for conservative legislaters and put a team in congress ready for him in 2012.

peacenprosperity on February 11, 2008 at 9:21 PM

Mitt Romney/Tony Snow 2012

peacenprosperity on February 11, 2008 at 9:24 PM

He is the one for 2012 because people realized too late that he was the one for 2008. He now has 4 years to keep his name out there anyway he wants and he can do a lot of things. If you can name a candidate with the resume, the intellect, and the energy that Romney has, then I will support him instead. But there isn’t one. Its not even close. Plus, Jindal or Steele or whoever could benefit greatly from being Mitt’s VP. What’s the rush for those guys?

Greenhorn on February 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM

Mitt is the one because he provokes this kind of rage in schmucks like these.

WasatchMan on February 11, 2008 at 10:09 PM

McAmnesty cost himself this election. Perhaps Romney will do better later. I don’t know how it happened, but more than one state’s GOP leader was supporting Juan. Best guess is the Good Old Politicians aka. the Republican Establishment had this all planned out years ago. However it was done, the MSM’s Mavrick push conservatives hard enough to cause us to look for greener pastures.

Conservatives should be willing to confront reality as it is, not as they wish it were.

The Apologist on February 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

Play your tune anyway you wish. Try scare tactics [Hillary]. Talk about calming down. Tell me to get in line. It just won’t work because I Refuse To Submit!

DannoJyd on February 12, 2008 at 12:02 AM

The fact is Romney is the most intelligent guy running and makes Michael Steele look like an intellectual feather weight. Once you actually research Romney and not the propaganda that was spread about him this campaign you will find a true leader for 2012. The odds of him overcoming the name recognition of Rudy and McCain, the Anti-Mormon bias via Huckabee supporters which included massive lies about Romney’s clearly anti-gay marriage position and all the other lies about his other social positions was a very big challenge this election. You then add in open primaries where dem and independents were able to take him out early with the overwhelming support of the MSM and the lack of unity with the GOP and you get one of AP’s favorites = McCain. It is blatantly obvious AP was intentially sandbagging Romney and continues to do so, intially hoping Rudy would somehow convert all the social cons but your fall back McCain is now in the lead and you are still delusional as to the conservative animosity towards him.

I am seriously getting tired of AP’s anti-Romney propaganda as I continued to research everything you brought up on him and found nothing outside his PUBLIC change in abortion politics (he has always been personally against abortion), the rest being word context issues which you rabidly exploited to further sandbag him. March with MLK? Right I would take Romney’s dad walking out on the GOP convention over civil rights issues over any out of context BS you would bring up about him.

Romney is the most intelligent GOP candidate, the best on the economy, the best with REAL family values that he lives everyday, a man who does not drink or smoke and the best overall on all the issues. The guy is a walking role model of what the GOP wishes it was unlike that moron McCain.

Fall in line my ass, for what? Amnesty? Carbon Taxes? Possible Vetoes against future tax cuts or closing Gitmo? Oh that’s right he is not Hillary. Go sell your BS to someone who cares. Try doing some damn research in the future instead of sandbagging the ones you don’t like.

Yes it was blatantly obvious. At least talk radio finally got it and you still don’t.

Poptech on February 12, 2008 at 1:05 AM

I’m still holding out for a true conservative to surface for 2012

HotAirExpert on February 12, 2008 at 1:57 AM

CONSERVATISM IS DEAD.

THE CHOSEN ONE on February 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Yeh, yeh, it’s that kind of thinking that gets you McRINO for a candidate.
Tell me CHEEZY ONE, do you spend much time thinking before you open your mouth?

leanright on February 12, 2008 at 7:36 AM

We get it Allah — you hate Romney. If conservative blogs and talk radio had actually gotten behind him when it mattered (not 10 minutes before Super Tuesday) he might be the nominee. So instead of having one that actually courts conservative values, we’re stuck with one that has to “repair” his relationship with conservatives. Thanks.

Spitfire9 on February 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM

Has there ever been a successful write-in win in our history?

“The RIGHT MAN: WRITE IN ROMNEY” campaign!

The Republican machine stinks–it almost seems as if the nomination was promised to McCain long ago and there determined to cram it through.

nyrofan on February 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM