Romney wins CPAC straw poll
posted at 7:55 pm on February 9, 2008 by Michelle
Nope. John McCain is not yet The Uniter:
Former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney narrowly beat John McCain, 35 to 34 percent, in a straw poll of conservative political activists gathered Saturday in Washington — a vote that is viewed as a barometer of support from that major GOP voting bloc.
The announcement of Romney’s win was greeted by cheers from the crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference. McCain is the frontrunner for the Republican nomination.
Roughly three-quarters of the votes in the three-day CPAC 2008 straw poll were cast before Mitt Romney dropped out of the presidential race, and one-quarter after his withdrawal.
In votes cast before Romney left the race, he beat McCain 44 to 27 percent. Among votes gathered after Romney’s withdrawal, McCain led Romney 37 to 32 percent.
Mike Huckabee received 12 percent of the vote in the straw poll overall, and Ron Paul received 10 percent. Those results were virtually unchanged among just those votes taken after Romney’s withdrawal.
Thirty-one percent said that if John McCain were the GOP presidential nominee, they would either vote for someone else, or not vote at all.










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No, Not because ‘my guy didn’t win’. My disdain and distrust for McCain predates by more than 25 years my knowledge even of the existence of ‘my guy’.
Vapid people like you be seem to believe that the rest of us make our decisions in a vacuum; that we react only by emotions. We don’t.
We make our decisions based on facts; on history. We have an actual strategy. Now, maybe our strategy is wrong and your strategy, despite its naivety and lack of understanding of history is right.
Unfortunately, only the future has the true, long-term answers, and your calling us spiteful, hateful, vindicative, arrogant, suicidal, idiotic etc. is not going to strengthen your position any more than me calling you vapid and ignorant is going to strengthen mine.
It has become trite, but I liken your position to “feeding the crocodile so that he will eat you last”. Lately usually applied to appeasers of Islam: In this case, You are Feeding the RINO crocodile hoping that he will protect you from the islamic crocodile, while willfully ignoring the fact that the RINOdile doesn’t like you much more than the Islamodile, and that there is an infestation of plague carrying fleas marching up your leg.
LegendHasIt on February 9, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Thank goodness someone has sense here. I’ve been cheering for Keyes in the primaries, but that certainly doesn’t negate my support for Mac as the elected GOP nominee. The whiners and moaners brought us Carter and WJC, and are perhaps more responsible for the damage in this nation than any other, being the ones who should have known better.
TOPV is a sly Democrat troll. ‘Taking Obama to the Presidential Vote’.
Pax americana on February 9, 2008 at 11:58 PM
In Louisiana, early exit polls show nearly half of the state’s Republican voters consider themselves “very conservative,” and more than half of those went for Huckabee with McCain picking up less than a third. And among born-again or evangelical Christians, Huckabee bested McCain by a 57-33 percent margin.
But the 26 percent of voters who said they were “somewhat conservative” were evenly split between the two, at 44 percent each. McCain polled better among voters with a negative view of the Bush administration.
unseen on February 9, 2008 at 11:59 PM
In his speach today at CPAC, Huck covered practically everything you are talking about. If you haven’t watched it yet, please do so.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 12:00 AM
In 2006, (if I recall correctly), Chuck Hagel and Linsey Graham scored higher with the ACU, (American Conservative Union), than McCain did.
FloatingRock on February 10, 2008 at 12:07 AM
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 12:00 AM
If Huck stays in until NC primary he has my vote. i would rather take anyone than Shamnasty McCain.
I understand what the elites of the party did. McCain did not win this election and he does not have the support of 60% of the party.
I am tired of Washington. And if it takes a Huck or and OBH to shake it up. It is BETTER than the status quo that is slowwing bleeding this nation that I love into bankruptcy both finanical and moral.
unseen on February 10, 2008 at 12:07 AM
You all do understand that Huck has a chance of going 3-0 tonight right?
unseen on February 10, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Have you read any of Hagel’s stupid foreign policy statements over the past 4 years? He’s a maroon.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Nah, I live here. Lincoln and Omaha have some little university driven hot spots, and we do have Ernie Chambers, but other than that, it’s stodgy, dumpy, rural consevative. The whole state knows Hagel was a mistake and he’s hated here worse than Bob Kerry. Interestingly, Ben Nelson is very well liked, as is Mike Johanns, whose ticket to being Sec of Ag for dubya, was shutting down stings on illegal meat packing employees.
So, we bitch about illegals in the meatpacking plants, but support the governor who kept ICE from sending them home as a career move. Tell me again why this one man/one vote concept is a good thing?
a capella on February 10, 2008 at 12:08 AM
I don’t need to go read the lyrics or read the Constitution. I learned them both well, ~50 years ago.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Roe vs Wade overturned and a decent “Right to Life Amendment. But that is only one of a hundred major, critical policies facing us, and it is one of the least that directly affects me.
Unfortunately The Huckster’s actual history proves that his desires are at odds with mine on most of the rest of them, regardless of what he says now.
Heck, McCain is pretty decent on the same strengths that Huckabee is, and is better on a couple of other things.
Nonetheless the things that I know and the things that I merely believe (without actual proof) of both of them rule them out for my support to run the country.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 12:09 AM
unseen, the elites of the party backed Romney. That’s what the CPAC polls show you, and the Limbaugh, Coulter, Ingraham, National Review magazine, etc. etc. etc endorsements plainly demonstrate.
I liked Rudy and Fred and Duncan Hunter. The elites didn’t and chose to send their money to help the Romney campaign. Romney just doesn’t do well with folks in the South, and it isn’t just because of his religion. He did poorly in California too, and I don’t sense much in the way of religious bigotry out in the land of fruits and nuts (yeah, a general anti-Christian of any flavor bigotry among the leftists, but McCain’s an Episcopalian and Huck’s a Baptist, so all 3 were Christians). So you can’t say it was a religious bigotry issue that cost Romney the CA votes, IMHO.
The GOP elite chose to back a candidate that the rest of the country just couldn’t get behind, so we are left with a mess and a half.
That said, either McCain or Huck is so much better for the nation than Obama or Hillary would be, that my vote goes to whichever one wins the nomination. I think Huckabee or McCain will piss me off as POTUS probably half of the time, but that’s a whole lot better than 100% of the time, which is what I would expect from the Obamassiah and his fawning liberal congress.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Some lame Republican Apologist for McCain on CNN is stumbling all over himself because there is no way to spin that fact that people won’t come out for McCain. The reporter is asking “how much more does McCain have to grovel”…
LOL. This is classic. Next, maybe McCain can give us al a hearty “F-$%&*()0″
ROFL
Grovel away McCain. Maybe then others will see your pandering and double speak for what it is.
TOPV on February 10, 2008 at 12:15 AM
And who votes in caucuses? People who care about the issues and follow these races. Not nimwit independents who only go to get their silly little “I Voted” sticker.
malan89 on February 10, 2008 at 12:17 AM
**nitwit**
malan89 on February 10, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Hey TOPV,
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/QuoteQuiz/index.php
A fun quiz for you.
p0s3r on February 10, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Well, I typed a long reponse to you, and I guess the machine ate it. I live in NE. Hagel is hated worse than Barry Switzer, and would have never won re-election. Ben Nelson is well liked and respected as is Mike Johanns. Bob Kerry used to be, but his transition towards moonbattery has cooled support for him. Lincoln and Omaha both have some university driven hotspots, and we do have Ernie Chambers in the state unicameral for entertainment value. I suspect the Obama support today all came from the cities. Low rural turnout, I would guess.
a capella on February 10, 2008 at 12:21 AM
I trust him more than I trust any of the other recent conservative converts to border security. I certainly trust him more than the Democrats who haven’t even bothered to pretend they care about border security. And every conservative is a recent convert on this issue, it’s not just McCain. Republicans took the same free-trade stance on illegal immigration that they did on outsourcing labor until about a year ago, when Americans finally woke up and realized it isn’t just an issue for the border states.
How passionate were you about border security before the McCain-Kennedy bill? I’ve lived in Arizona my whole life. There neighborhoods I grew up in and around where I can’t go anymore, because I’d be a foreigner in my country, because I don’t speak the language (not muy bueno, anyway), and where I’m not welcome even if I did. Where have the conservatives like you been as the city I love has been in danger of turning from an American city with Mexican heritage to a Mexican City with American vestiges?
I don’t recall a single conservative standing up for those of us that have actually lived with the illegal immigration problem when we were called racists and nativists for pointing it out. Forget the fence, by the way, the fence is stupid. Our border is a lot bigger than anyone talking about a fence thinks it is (and ladders are pretty cheap in Mexico).
-Enforce employer sanctions laws that make foreign workers compete at the same minimum wage as American workers expect for low-skilled jobs.
-Put the criminals in Amercan prisons, and deport them after their sentence.
-Put a tax on international wire transfers.
-If someone from Mexico knows English and wants to live in America, god bless ‘em. Make it easier for them to live here legally, and transparently.
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM
LegendHasit, when Barry Hussein sends our troops over to Sudan, or to Kenya to help out his anti-American buddies, I hope your ideological purity is a comfort to you. It certainly won’t be to the wives and children of those troops though.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:23 AM
Wish it was a little higher, but probably high enough for McShamnesty to really start kissing some conservative ass before he kisses his career goodbye! This is going to be a watershed year in Republican politics. Did I mention go Huck! Embarass McShamnesty some more. Sweet!!!!!!
jwp1964 on February 10, 2008 at 12:25 AM
dang, I failed the quiz. Or should I be happy?
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Try a new argument. Your attempted guilt trips regarding the troops is disgusting. Trying to smear people as troop haters because they don’t agree with your chosen one is ridiculous.
jwp1964 on February 10, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Huckabee just projected winner in Louisiana.
I’m not surprised, are you?
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Bless you funky. I feel for you. These fools have no comprehension of what they will be responsible for.
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 12:33 AM
The idiots on both sides (Dem and Republican) are too numerous. The only way to cure idiocy is to have an idiot elected and then for him (or her) to damage the country. It’s sad, but people can only learn through their own experience. It looks like it will be B Hussein, and he is the worst choice. B Hussein will create hell on earth in the United States of America. After that either B Hussein will become a dictator or idiots won’t be elected for a long time. Similar with McCain. I want to see the worst possible buyers’ remorse, and that’s the way to not selecting RINOs.
Igor R. on February 10, 2008 at 12:34 AM
So I should vote for McCain who opposed the only serious tax relief I have received in years (no I am not rich), who wants to increase my energy costs and further cripple the economy (cap and trade) and who wants to just give away our country to whoever decides to walk in? But hey if McCain wins we will stay in Iraq for 10-15 more years so we can get all that oil that we are not getting now as opposed to pulling out and not getting all the oil we are not getting now. I mean I don’t want the contractors there to stop making so much money because that would be unAmerican and against the troops. I mean seriously if a Democratic candidate gets elected they are going to stop shipping the troops ammunition and they are all going to die. I mean if we pull out there is no way that our navy could stop them from rowing across the ocean. Seriously even if they made it there would be no way for them to just walk across our borders… Ooops maybe not.
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Poptech, I smell a troll, but if you’re not…vote for Huckabee.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Protect the unborn! Elect Obama!
Yeah, makes sense to me.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:38 AM
McCain needs to lose in a landslide of historic proportions. That’s the only way to end Big Government Republicanism, Compassionate Conservatism, and similar crap.
Igor R. on February 10, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Huckabee is a nasty liberal who is willing to pander unlike McCain. Judge him only by his deeds as Governor. He is no conservative.
Igor R. on February 10, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Funky Chicken, when McCain institutes a 50 cent a gallon (additional) tax on a gallon of gas, destroys the few remaining American Production facilities with his CO2 caps and gives amnesty to 20 million illegal aliens and 100 million of their closest family and friends and the Republican Party gets the blame for it, I hope your willingness to “feed the RINOdile” will be a comfort to you.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 12:42 AM
Friends should not have been bolded above.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 12:47 AM
I think I found TOPV
February 9, 2008
Bitter Enders
How are the attendees of CPAC handling the ascension of John McCain to the nomination? For the most part, I’d say fairly well. McCain hasn’t generated wild enthusiasm from conservative activists, but the general sense is that he’s earned an opportunity to partner with conservatives. I chatted briefly with McCain volunteers at their booth, and they say they’ve signed up over 200 new volunteers. That would be a significant number for any candidate at a conference with this kind of diversity.
However, not everyone wants to put the divisions behind them. When I got to Blogger Row this morning, the desks had been papered by Patriot PAC. They have launched a new website, OpenGOPConvention, to urge voters to deny McCain the outright nomination. Headlined “CONTAIN MCCAIN!”, they want Republicans to wait for a “real Ronald Reagan conservative” — as if no one thought of the idea before. They also left copies of a Washington Times column by Terry Michael calling McCain “the John Kerry of ’08″.
Frankly, that’s absurd, and the messenger is even more so. Terry Michaels used to be the press secretary for the DNC. Somewhat ironically, the first flyer warns of a media conspiracy to promote McCain, while Michaels now works for Washington Center for Politics and Journalism, the very nexus of which Patriot PAC warns. Now we have a Democratic press flack warning Republicans not to nominate John McCain — because he’s not Republican enough?
We have had the longest and most open primary in our history. During that period, we talked endlessly about Ronald Reagan, begging for credible presidential candidates who could fill his shoes or at least shine them. If we didn’t get anyone who could pass muster over the last year, what makes anyone think we could produce one now? And who would it be, anyway?
John McCain isn’t a perfect candidate; far from it. He’s the one who has attracted the most votes from the Republican coalition, though, and the various coalition factions have failed to produce anyone better. Being a bitter ender will take the party to a bitter end. It’s time to start working within the McCain team to increase our influence, rather than engage in fantasies about magic candidates and marginalizing the movement.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/016923.php
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Heh. 100 million? For comparison, even though Mexicans only account for 57% of illegal immigrants, Mexico’s population is 108 million. I think your estimate is a little high, that’s all.
Let’s stick with 20 million. Even McCain-Kennedy didn’t grant all 20 million of them amnesty. “Amnesty” is kind of a strange way of putting it, too, considering illegal immigration is already virtually legal under current law. Of what, exactly, are they being forgiven?
The carbon cap proposal is also, to put it politely, highly speculative. I can tell you with complete confidence that no congressperson with any desire to ever be elected again would pass the tax and cap you’re imagining.
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 1:03 AM
McCain is openly laughing at Conservatives with his “fix the borders first” comments that have not changed. His whole speech was “this is where we agree, these are some of the thing we disagree on, I’m one of you”. This was a logically flawed lie.
Igor R. on February 10, 2008 at 1:04 AM
In your dreams buddy. No safe employment for illegals = self-deportation. Amnesty=death of America. It’s an existential struggle, take it seriously.
Igor R. on February 10, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Well, I’m not going to get into a pissing match here over whose knowledge and understanding of history is greater, but suffice it to say that I am confident that I have a fairly comprehensive understanding of American political history.
Losing is losing. When Republicans lose the White House, conservatives lose. The idea that putting a socialist leaning party in power, a party that has already told you that it will enfranchise millions of voters that will vote Democratic for generations to come, will somehow lead to the return of Reagan conservatism is just dangerously naive, in my opinion.
And the idea that voters like me who want to work from within the most conservative party to change it and pull it further right are somehow appeasing liberals because we want our party to stay in power, even with a less than perfect candidate, is vapid and ignorant is , well…..vapid and ignorant.
But, of course, you didn’t call me that.
Priscilla on February 10, 2008 at 1:06 AM
I judge him by what he has been doing for the last year or so and what he is doing now. I judge him by who he is choosing as advisors now. I judge him by the type of judges he has committed to nominate (Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, and Alito).
Likewise, I judge McCain by what he has been doing since 2004 and is doing now. He led the Gang of 14. He called Alito “too conservative”. He led the amnesty bill. He picked Juan to be an advisor. McCain is no conservative. Huck will have my vote in my state’s upcoming primary.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 1:07 AM
All I have to say is Bwa HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Could be a clean sweep for Huck and a loss in the straw poll. Big Day for Mc the Uniter. LMAO!!!!!!
jwp1964 on February 10, 2008 at 1:09 AM
RightOfLeft, it’s 100M over a decade. The McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill also gave the non-resident families of the 20M illegals citizenship.
2020. The year America becomes some Latin American 3rd world shit hole.
p0s3r on February 10, 2008 at 1:09 AM
This is funny.
AIEEEEE he’s been captured by the Federalist Society! Better send a rescue squadron, STAT.
Lots of political hysteria about McCain this week.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM
Right… I should vote for Huckabee because I really think all of this is a really good idea:
- Huckabee immediately upon taking office signed a sales tax hike in 1996
- Huckabee raised taxes on cigarettes, cigars and tobacco in 1997
- Huckabee raised taxes on cigarette and tobacco permits in 1997
- Huckabee raised the sales tax again in 1999
- Huckabee raised taxes on gasoline in 1999
- Huckabee raised taxes on diesel in 1999
- Huckabee supported an internet sales tax in 2001
- Huckabee levied an excise tax on all retail sales of beer in 2001
- Huckabee created a bed-tax on private nursing home patients in 2001
- Huckabee increased the cost of driver’s licenses in 2001
- Huckabee publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002
- Huckabee proposed another sales take hike in 2002
- Huckabee raised the sales tax again in 2003
- Huckabee imposed an income tax surcharge on individuals and corporations in 2003
- Huckabee raised taxes on cigarettes and tobacco in 2003
- Huckabee opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003
- Huckabee allowed a 17% sales tax increase to become law in 2004
- Huckabee increased taxes in the state by more than Bill Clinton did
- Huckabee increased state spending 65.3% from 1996 to 2004
- Huckabee increased the number of state government workers 20% during his tenure
- Overall, Huckabee’s substantial tax hikes far surpassed his modest tax cuts, with the average tax burden increasing by a whopping 47% over his tenure.
But hey if I am a southerner who doesn’t know how to research anything and believes in a Theocracy vote for the Huckster! The bible comes before common sense.
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 1:10 AM
I don’t think you need worry too much on that count. Or exercise yourself at all to see it come to pass, for that matter.
Moderates don’t donate.
Moderates don’t phone-bank.
Moderates don’t go door to door.
Moderates don’t sway those in their social networks with their tepid preference.
Pretty much all moderates do is sit in the corner sucking their thumbs wishing that the grown-ups would stop using their “angry voices”.
Moderates are the segment of the electorate that the candidates fight for. They never fight for a candidate.
Deety on February 10, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Huckabee for Senate Chaplain!
profitsbeard on February 10, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Priscilla. Your history must not be quite as good as you think. The last big amnesty bill was called McCain-Kennedy. As in John McCain. Guess what that would’ve done? It would’ve enfranchised millions of voters that will vote Democratic for generations to come.
p0s3r on February 10, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Your figures are laughable unless Mexico disappears overnight, but never mind, you still don’t get it. Obama is going to give them amnesty anyhow. Citizenship. Who do you think they are going to be cheering on next time round and where is their loyalty going to lie? Clue: it won’t be the GOP, and they ain’t going to be voting for secure borders anytime soon either. Will be interesting to see what languages the 2020 elections are in. Did you know that Obama opposes english being the US official language?
Better to cut your losses and sort out this mess with a GOP POTUS. There’s still time to put some decent reins on McCain.
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 1:14 AM
powerlineblog.com
I enjoy listening to Ann Coulter, partly because I usually agree with 80 to 90 percent of what she says and partly because of the guilty pleasure I get from much of the other 10 to 20 percent. However, watching the replay of her speech explaining to the Young America’s Foundation why Hillary Clinton is preferable to John McCain, I found that those percentages were reversed. Moreover, though I did take guilty pleasure from her attacks on McCain, it became increasingly difficult fully to enjoy the spectacle of Coulter attempting to persuade college-age conservatives that a McCain defeat at the hands of Clinton would be just fine.
Fortunately, judging by the questions, at least some of the college-age conservatives were skeptical. Indeed, Coulter seemed to be backing off by the end of the Q and A session — even to the point of allowing for the possibility of being persuaded to prefer McCain — as it became increasingly evident that her position is untenable.
For example, in response to a question about Iraq, Coulter responded that McCain wants to close Gitmo and end waterboarding. But Clinton wants to close Gitmo, end waterboarding and, more likely than not, get out of Iraq without having won. McCain wants to close Gitmo, end waterboarding, and win in Iraq. How is that even a close call for Coulter?
Similarly, when asked about judges Coulter reminded the audience that McCain was part of the Gang of 14, and added that there was no assurance McCain would appoint judges like John Roberts (whose nomination Coulter was no fan of at the time) and Samuel Alito. But McCain voted in favor of Roberts and Alito, and (though I disagree with the Gang of 14) supported restricting filibusters of Bush nominees to exceptional cases. Clinton voted against Roberts and Alito, and thought there should be no restrictions on filibusters of their nominations and the nominations of like-minded appellate court judges. Again, this seems like a no-brainer for conservatives.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 1:16 AM
The GOP still loses by not voting McCain. If his policy (i) is right the illegals won’t be there for the Dems to enfranchise when they get the chance, and (ii) if it is wrong then at least the loyalty of these new voters is towards the GOP rather than the Dems for generations.
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM
There have been so many comments like this one for the past month.
Sure, Huckabee is a populist. What politician doesn’t pander? Good gracious. That what politicians do. It’s who they are. This pander pasting is continually stated in these threads as if it’s something all together new that’s just been recently foisted on the American public.
Huckabee is solid pro-life, marriage and family. Always has been. I’ll take that given there is no perfect candidate.
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM
And Huckabee will now work to abolish the IRS and institute a Fair Tax.
Impossible? Let me remind you that this country functioned very well for a long period of time without an IRS and without a progressive (!) Income Tax. It will function better without them.
What’s McCain’s record? Voting against the Bush Tax cuts. Would you have me believe that he is the better choice. Yeah, right. I can trust John McCain…NOT!
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM
Thats understandable.
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 1:21 AM
McCain Kennedy sucked balls. No doubt about it. McCain still sucks on illegal immigration. No doubt about that either.
But on at least 8 issues that I could tick off the top of my head, he’s much, much better than Hillary or Obama. Votes have consequences. And enabling the election of Hillary or Obama would have terrible consequences.
If McCain chooses some douche like LIndsay Grahamnesty, I will be really, really pissed off. On the amnesty issue, but also because he will have shown that he actually doesn’t give a damn about winning the election, and will thus be complicit in hiring Obama or Hillary as my husband’s Commander in Chief.
I hope he will not be an idiot and incredible asshole and do something like that. I hope he picks Sanford of South Carolina or another strong conservative. We’ll know soon enough…..we would know sooner if Huckabee would get out of the race and allow us to move forward toward November.
funky chicken on February 10, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Right sell out to the illegals so businesses can make money at the expense of American Jobs. I have never thought I would see people trying to sell this country out like this for votes. So the the GOP should sell out first? What the hell is going on? Have you people gone insane? Or do you really believe it is impossible to deport people? Please stop trying to convince anyone who is against amnesty to vote for McCain because amnesty would be good for the GOP. That is madness.
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 1:23 AM
You economic illiterates are being led around on this fair tax insanity. Do you not comprehend that the middle class will be hurt the worst by it? Why do you think none of the economic candidates were endorsing it (Romney and Rudy) answer because Huckabee supporters = the idiots of the GOP.
Fair Tax, Flawed Tax (Wall Street Journal)
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 1:27 AM
Think of it as a plus for his candidacy.
John McCain: “No telling what crazy &*$# he’ll pull next!”
I hear some people really dig novelty.
Deety on February 10, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Every action I take in life has a consequence
So should I vote for the candidate that represents my values…or take one for the team?
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 1:30 AM
It isn’t. I decided some time ago this was all about ego. Coulter makes her living from screaming about liberals, ergo for her it is much better to have a real liberal in the White House.
Note that Huckabee and Gingrich support McCain’s position not Coulter’s.
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 1:30 AM
Oh, I take it seriously. I question the seriousness of the folks fantasizing about a fence securing a 2000 mile border, or telling us very gravely about how 100 million illegal immigrants will be here by 2020. These phantom conservatives that have materialized in the last year to save us from the illegal immigration problem that never existed for them until they realized it might be worth a few votes. At least McCain offered a solution, stood behind it, and was rejected. What did the true conservatives do?
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 1:30 AM
Without secure borders and the rule of law you have no country, only a dirty doormat for scofflaws and thieves.
McCain may be tough on fighting the war “over there”, but want to lose it at home.
He needs to reverse course or the GOP hits a demographic iceberg of its own wishing, as it dreams of cheap labor and grateful illegals.
The illegals will be wooed by the pandering Dems if they get to stay, and the cheap labor won’t buy back your soul if you undermine the country to the point of Balkanized chaos.
No border, no nation.
Hear that Johnny Mac?
profitsbeard on February 10, 2008 at 1:33 AM
This is another of Huckabee’s populist positions. Any talk of abolishing the IRS brings immediate reaction of “ooh, great!!” But is won’t happen.
And Poptech, throwing out “idiot” doesn’t help dialogue with people in this forum.
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 1:34 AM
p0s3r, that was not my point. I am well aware of the abomination that McCain-Kennedy was – and bad as it was, whatever we’ll get under the Dems will be worse. They don’t even pay lip service to the enforcement first concept,and they state categorically that illegals will become citizens asap.
So, why would I choose to vote for them, either by pulling the lever or refusing to support their opposition? Why hand them the reins for the forseeable future?
Because my guy didn’t win? I should choose them because I’m pissed at John McCain for winning? I should ignore the endorsements of conservative thinkers and historians like Victor Hansen, Charles Krauthammer, John Bolton and abandon the only party in which conservatives have a base of power….all because my guy didn’t win?
All this talk of standing on core principles is invalidated when your “principles” enable the victory of socialism. Like I said, losing is losing…..you may see a McCain defeat as your “moral victory”, but it’s really just a victory for the leftist candidate, whether it be BHO or HRC.
It’s hard for me to believe that some people can’t see that.
Priscilla on February 10, 2008 at 1:37 AM
The Dems likely won’t have a nominee until their convention, so there is no harm done in waiting until our convention for our nominee. Make the best choice now.
Huck will be a great president. History won’t hold Bush 41 in very good light, but history will hold Reagan, Bush 43, and Huckabee in very good light. All three different, but all three very important two-term Republican presidents who each furthered different aspects of the conservative cause.
Don’t believe me? That’s OK. Few people believed me two days ago when I first predicted a Huckabee/Thompson win over Obama/Edwards in November. With each primary/caucus that Huckabee wins, people will believe more.
Also watch the fundraising numbers for Huckabee vs. McCain…it will mirror what has been happening with Obama vs. Clinton.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 1:37 AM
Abolishing the IRS is a nice fantasy but implementing a system that is worse because those supporting it are economic illiterates is where the idiot label came from. I am sorry but you cannot get it through to these economic illiterates that they would be paying MORE with the unFair Tax. They all read Neal Bortz book and now are experts on this idiotic idea.
Unspinning the FairTax (FactCheck.org)
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 1:38 AM
The conservatives and liberal people actually united and blocked that completely insane bill.
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 1:39 AM
Don’t you think that the fair tax fantasy is just that–fantasy? That won’t take shape in any form? I look at it as Bush’s social security plan.
And didn’t Forbes try this about eight years ago? He–and it–went no where.
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 1:43 AM
Rejected that horrible piece of crap that McCain co-sponsored.
p0s3r on February 10, 2008 at 1:45 AM
Skidd, IIRC Forbes’ was a flat tax, not the Fair Tax.
p0s3r on February 10, 2008 at 1:46 AM
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 1:39 AM
No, most of the liberals were here. And to the their mind, it was this issue won them the 2006 congressionals. We are fools if we think Hussein and Hillary are not going to pander to their ‘base’, as you are expecting McCain to pander to ours.
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 1:48 AM
That’s right. Thanks.
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Forbes tried the Flat Tax for income which was a good idea, everyone pays 15% instead of the insane 25%+ for anyone making over 31,000 a year. The Fair Tax is a very different and much more dangerous animal that would institute a national sales tax of 30-50% on EVERYTHING from items to services and I mean EVERYTHING but hey you don’t have any income tax now, you just cannot afford to buy anything and these economic illiterates are going crazy to try and push it as a good idea.
Poptech on February 10, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Huck’s stated position on Taxes/Economy.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 1:51 AM
Thanks for nothing. McCain-Kennedy was ineffective; no better, no worse. McCain-Kennedy wouldn’t have resulted in open borders – the borders already are open, and have been for decades. It wasn’t amnesty. An illegal alien is as unlikely to be deported now as he would’ve been after McCain-Kennedy. If you’re going to criticize McCain on immigration, at least go after the other 99% of the conservative movement that continues do precisely squat to solve the problem.
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 1:54 AM
You know Poptech, there IS a danger to foolish ideas, though. It seems the more foolish they are, the longer they stick around to hurt us later. I just can’t believe how socialized medicine is making so much traction. Didn’t we kill it 14 years ago?
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 1:55 AM
Forgive me for pointing this out, but you learned them both so well that when I quoted the Declaration of Independence you thought it was the Constitution?
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Abolish the IRS?!
You don’t say…
Yeah, there would be no need for a bloated and wasteful bureaucracy to determine and distribute all of those “prebates” that would be needed to prevent this from being a crushingly regressive tax.
Deety on February 10, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Yeah, Deety, how did this country ever function without the IRS?
/sarc
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:01 AM
Last I checked the McCain amnesty bill occurred in 2007 (June 28th) so the 2006 elections has nothing to do with what happened in 2007.
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 2:03 AM
WOO! You can Google. I’m impressed! (Unfortunately, you can’t think strategically.) OK, I’ll admit I possibly exaggerated a bit.
SO; only an extra 60 million when the current 12 million (by government figures, rather than the 20+ million by more realistic figures) get their amnesty and get to bring in their families too.
It will only be 80 million new ‘hyphenated’ Americans instead of 120 million. Whew, that’s a relief No problem at all.
You say Mexico is only 57% of the problem. When you add in the other 43% of nationalities that are sneaking into America illegally….. Do you think that they won’t want to bring in their families when the Mexicans do?
You think because President McCain signed the legislation that they will start helping us elect real conservatives in 2020 out of gratitude to President McCain; The Grantor of Amnesty and Citizenship?
……………..
You people that think you can “put reins on McCain” don’t know the man at all. You would have better success ‘putting the reins’ on Hillary; She at least governs by focus group and polls. McCain doesn’t care one iota what any of us think when he isn’t pandering for votes.
…………………
Ah, screw it. No point in arguing anymore. None of us will convince the others, and only history will prove who was right. Fortunately I’ll probably be dead and will leave no children to live through the world that the choice of ‘the lesser of two evils will bring.
I don’t feel sorry for the people who make that choice, but I do feel sorry for their kids. Because, as it works out, we are screwed no matter who we elect in 2008…. I’d just rather that the GOP not get the blame for causing huge damages to the Nation by instituting policies that are essentially Liberal /leftist ideals.
I’m through wasting my time on this thread. I’m not going to reply anymore unless someone says something so idiotic that I can’t ignore it.
Good luck to all of you McCain Supporters… Enthusiastic or ‘holding your nose’. This is another of those situations where I hope you are right and I am wrong.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 2:04 AM
Huckabee took two states today, right?
I think I know what your name means….
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 2:05 AM
ITookTheRedPill is a reference to the movie The Matrix as well as a blue state/red state analogy.
I was born and raised in a Democrat blue-state family. At 18 I left home and went to a well-known (and fairly liberal) university in a red-state. At 23, I took the red pill, left the Matrix, and have been a Republican ever since.
What did you think it means?
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:12 AM
OOPS, I just made myself a liar after saying I wasn’t going to reply to this thread anymore.
You got me there. Very stupid error…. What even makes it even more stupid, is that when I was starting that reply I was thinking that you said that it was the Constitution and I was going to say, “no, it was the Declaration”, so I went back and re-read your post, yet I still got it wrong.
If I made THAT double mistake AND made myself a liar by making this post at all it invalidates everything I ever believed and makes me an idiot.
Guess that means I’ll have to vote for Huckabee AND McCain.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 2:17 AM
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 2:03 AM
The process started back in 2005 from what I recall. You didn’t have a problem with S. 1033 and S. 2611?
Pax americana on February 10, 2008 at 2:17 AM
I was wrong. I was aware of the Matrix connection, but from reading your comments, I know that you’re a born-again Christian. (I am too).
So I thought that you were referring to your born-again nature.
red pill = Christ’s blood.
Good story though!
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 2:19 AM
Thats easily done, and if you search my posts you will find that I already did that.
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 2:22 AM
No, that would be Huckabee and Thompson, not Huckabee and McCain.
Huckabee/Thompson defeats Obama/Edwards in November. Remember? :-)
And no, I don’t think you are an idiot or a liar. I know you know the difference between the documents. I was just poking fun, which is why I started with “Forgive me for pointing this out”.
No harm, no foul.
Vote Huckabee. You’ll be glad you did. Vote McCain (or stay home) and you will regret it for the rest of your life.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:24 AM
I never thought of it that way, but it works. My political conversion was a direct result of my spiritual conversion. Which is why the Democrats can stand born-again Christians. It threatens them. Another example: they can’t stand that “Jane Roe” of Roe v. Wade has been born again and has sought to overturn that case.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:32 AM
I love this “shamnesty” furor. There’s nothing stopping illegal immigrants from coming here now. Nothing. There’s nothing we can do at this point that is going encourage more illegal immigration. Reagan’s immigration bill already gave illegal immigrants the green light, we can’t make it any greener. Another amnesty won’t affect the rate of immigration – it’s already at its maximum! So McCain gets excoriated for backing a worthless bill, while the rest of congress gets lionized for keeping our borders open as wide as ever.
Whatever, though, we can both agree that 20 million is too many. We can at least try to figure out who’s been living here all these years. Better yet, we can enforce existing minimum wage laws and enact employer sanction laws to cut off the real source of illegal immigration – businesses looking for cheap labor. The best part about this is, we can do all this at state level. No need to bother the president or the congress.
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 2:35 AM
Actually that means nothing in the big scheme of things.
The “process” started back in 1986 when Reagan first granted amnesty.
F15Mech on February 10, 2008 at 2:35 AM
G’night.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:37 AM
Ah Heck, I’m making myself a liar AGAIN….
There was supposed to be a smiley after that last post of mine; I did kind of feel that you were just poking fun; And I was too, but I think the HotAir interface stripped my smiley.
But as far as voting Huckabee (or McCain)… Sorry, I just can’t do it.
If I regret it for the rest of my life, at least I can take comfort that I won’t regret it all that long.
“Peace; Out” as the ‘rappers’ say
LegendHasIt, the self made liar.
LegendHasIt on February 10, 2008 at 2:38 AM
I never thought of it that way, but it works. My political conversion was a direct result of my spiritual conversion. Which is why the Democrats can stand born-again Christians. It threatens them.
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Absolutely. The spiritual warfare in America is raging in every conceivable area. Satan needs us out of the way to crush Israel. (The non Christians reading my post are marking me as a nut right about now..)
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 2:41 AM
Fair enough, I’ll take your word for it. Sorry if I’m coming off a little too strident. I live in a border state, so I’m passionate about the immigration issue. We probably agree on that more than we disagree. I also think John McCain is a good man, and I believe he’s serious about learning from the McCain-Kennedy fiasco. That, we probably don’t agree on so much, but that’s fine.
RightOFLeft on February 10, 2008 at 2:48 AM
I said G’night before, but I actually went to get a link about “Jane Roe” Norma McCorvey.
I realize you understood my meaning, but just to clarify for others I need to correct one thing:
In regards to spiritual warfare, those without spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear won’t “get it” until they do.
But even an atheist or agnostic should recognize that:
1) Numerous archeological excavations validate Biblical scripture
2) The Bible is the only book on Earth containing prophesies that have always come true exactly as prophesied.
3) Biblical prophesies about the future in the Middle East are coming true on a fairly frequent basis…You think Iran’s (Persia’s) desire to annihilate Israel is coincidence?
ITookTheRedPill on February 10, 2008 at 3:01 AM
No. It’s all been foretold by God in His Book–The Holy Bible.
Skidd on February 10, 2008 at 3:25 AM
It is sad to see so many longtime HotAir contributors drop out. The friendly discussion has tanked
I miss the sincere banter which has been replaced by
sophistrychildish sophistrySpin: it’s time to start working within the McCain team:
spin: they are destroying the world
spin: the idea that the McCain can be trusted not to enfranchise millions of voters after running a shell game to have his buddies run concurrently to collect votes for him
No need.
spin: Romney is destroying the world
spin: there is a cabal of elite in the GOP(as opposed to the RNC) that is destroying the world
spin: there are elites in the GOP (as opposed to the RNC)
Spin: conservative thinkers and historians approve of McCain
Obviously
George Soros, well known conservative historian and thinker is funding McCain’s think tank foundation
The original crowd at HotAir are now discovered to be insane destroyers of the world order for not going with the program. I am shaking in my boots that Fred Barnes might come and hammer me with Charles Krauthammer
Hot Air does not have a program, although it does have an inspiration in MM who has fought battles against posers for years
Just because you do not hear the now silent voices of Hot Air does not mean they have acquiesced. It means they do not spend effort on gnats
I suggest Kos or Huffington for a more level playing field
entagor on February 10, 2008 at 4:26 AM
Caucusy/Primary Thingies
KS
HUCK- 59.58% — REP. TURNOUT 19,516
MAC- 23.50% — DEM. TURNOUT* 36,723
NOTA- 16.92% — (Dems voted on 02/05/08)
WA
MAC- 26.22% — REP. TURNOUT 12,351
HUCK- 24.37% — DEM. TURNOUT 31,984
NOTA- 49.41%
LA
HUCK- 43.43% — REP. TURNOUT 155,858
MAC- 41.75% — DEM. TURNOUT 378,106
NOTA- 14.82%
McCain may have supported the surge but will there be a surge to support McCain?
Deety on February 10, 2008 at 5:56 AM
So there IS a secret society of elite hotair posters! I knew it! I wonder what the message boards were like before all us wanna be’s and posers showed up.
“I say old chap, that robot humps like an Irishman!”
tlynch001 on February 10, 2008 at 6:47 AM
Arguments put forward by LegendHasIt and entagor are lost on the Dumbed Down Moderates. There are new posters here who agree with you guys, and can differentiate between core principles of conservatism vs. Republicanism, and will go forward trying to live those principles even after the inevitable (based on primary voting numbers) victory by the Democrats. Enabling John McCain’s Establishment (that’s right) party just slows the process but does not prevent it.
davecatbone on February 10, 2008 at 6:54 AM
That statement is so wrong on so many levels it’s laughable. You believe that conservative media personalities do the bidding of the RNC? Well, maybe Hewitt — but Ann Coulter? Thanks for the laugh. What the CPAC poll shows is that there are quite a few “party before principle” pseudo-conservatives who back McCain, rather than the opposite.
The “elites” of the party begin with the top man: the sitting President, who has stated that he couldn’t back Romney because of his anti-amnesty stance, but that he could back McCain. The RNC controls the purse strings, and the RNC, under Bush’s leadership, has tacked left. They no longer believe that conservative principles can win elections, and in 2004 and 2006 primaries, they repeatedly backed RINO’s over conservatives for Senate and Congressional seats, to the disgust of grass roots conservative organizers. Instead of realizing that the alienation of conservatives with big spending, government growth and “compassionate conservatism” of soft socialism resulted in the abysmal showing in 2006, they decided to tack further left: and the result is McCain, who plans to win by replacing the right with support from “moderates” and Democrats who support the war and delight in McCain’s “sticking it to the right,” including his threats to silence political discussion on both the internet and talk radio.
McCain has nothing but contempt for conservatives, and his attitude is an accurate reflection of the RNC, no matter how they, and McCain backers like yourself, might try to sugarcoat it.
Nichevo on February 10, 2008 at 7:01 AM
Substantive. Thoughtful. Funny. High signal to noise ratio. Less reactionary.
Hey, you asked!
/Übercommenter Emeritus
Pablo on February 10, 2008 at 7:34 AM
“Huckabee supporters = the idiots of the GOP. -Poptech
Check your piercings, Pop. We Huckabee supporters, unlike you Thompson/Mitt/McCAin idiots, don’t have the scars created in our noses by being led around like cattle by the likes of blind pundits such as Michelle, Allah,Rush, and Ann.
Pride an lack of humility in the face of truth such as yours (and your media triumvirate gurus), Poptech, is dooming the GOP.
You may be feeling smug, but in fact…you are a large part of the GOP’s problem, pal. So are your blogging heros.
Al-Ozarka on February 10, 2008 at 8:27 AM
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