Anglican leader: It’s time for shari’a in Britain
posted at 9:46 am on February 7, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Not the bad-crazy hand-chopping shari’a, of course, just the good-crazy stuff governing family matters and finances. Parallel legal systems as a pathway to multicultural “social cohesion”: What could go wrong?
The Archbishop of Canterbury says the adoption of Islamic Sharia law in the UK seems “unavoidable”.
Dr Rowan Williams told Radio 4’s World at One that the UK has to “face up to the fact” that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.
Dr Williams argues that adopting some aspects of Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion…
He says Muslims should not have to choose between “the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty”.…
He stresses that “nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country the kind of inhumanity that’s sometimes been associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states; states; the extreme punishments, the attitudes to women as well”…
“We don’t either want a situation where, because there’s no way of legally monitoring what communities do… people do what they like in private in such a way that that becomes another way of intensifying oppression inside a community.”
In case that last paragraph is too oblique for you, he’s talking about cheery phenomena like this. What makes this sort of thing ominous isn’t that it’s coming from Williams, whose idiocy (useful and otherwise), is well documented. It’s that for every show of resistance to Islamist cretinism by the British government — the latest righteous example coming just today, and met with the obligatory whining by British Muslim groups apologizing for their hero’s barbarity — there’s a story like this, or this, swirling somewhere on the wires. I cop to dereliction of duty as a blogger: It’s so common and dispiriting that I don’t know what to say about it anymore.
Exit question: Which type of shari’a, the good-crazy or the bad-crazy, does this little arrangement fall under?
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Holy shit. Why can I imagine Obama saying very close to the same thing? Or perhaps quoting the “dedicated man of God” and just repeating it verbatim?
funky chicken on February 7, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Oh the books he would be churning out, if George Orwell were alive today.
America Alone - Mark Steyn should copyright it.
Leonidas Hoplite on February 7, 2008 at 9:50 AM
It’s not idiocy.
It’s cunning.
Once you get the society to accept religious law of another group then you start pumping up yours… because, it’s only right…
Skywise on February 7, 2008 at 9:51 AM
If the Archbishop is saying crap like this, England is hopeless and really, truly, done.
amkun on February 7, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Skywise, er, do some research on this guy. He’s a textbook case of mushy-headed suicidal multiculti group hug thinking.
funky chicken on February 7, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Since when do we care if someone “can relate” to our legal system? That’s insane! He needs to get a copy of Churchill’s works and read the all. Start with the Birth of Britain. Good grief.
And how does he think he’s going to get to pick and choose which parts of sharia law he likes? Ya know, the Muslims “can’t relate” to picking and choosing from Allah’s laws!
I feel your frustration, AP. When you post stories like this, I just don’t know what to say. It’s easier to go and rail about McShamnesty/Huckaberry/Mitt on the US election threads. What kind of world will my children have when they are grown?? That keeps me up at night.
TX Mom on February 7, 2008 at 9:57 AM
America Alone…unfrackin’ believable.
jwp1964 on February 7, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Oh he may be multi-cultural… but trust me.. he’s only thinking about his power base…
Skywise on February 7, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Damn. Sounds like he’s either ready to be a good Dhimmi and pay the Jizya, or we’ll read a Drudge headline sometime in the next month:
ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY BECOMES MUSLIM!
piraticalbob on February 7, 2008 at 10:01 AM
I’m going to use that next time I’m pulled over. Sorry man, just can’t relate.
ronsfi on February 7, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Jack the Ripper would have loved this guy.
fogw on February 7, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Say hello to your new Islamic overlords.
rightside on February 7, 2008 at 10:07 AM
I suppose this means that apple bottom jeans are not an option.
bloggless on February 7, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Why won’t the brain dead people who appointed this creep as Archbishop remove him but then didn’t I just answer my own question, they’re brain dead?
Ceroth on February 7, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I thank God I’m not Anglican, and don’t have to defend this sack of crap.
fourstringfuror on February 7, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Talk about a nation that has given in without a fight! Whatever happened to the famous “Stiff upper Lip”?
srhoades on February 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM
The post is mistitled. Sharia would not be “anarchy” in the UK. It would be order, and in some ways, better order than what they have now. Does Saudi Arabia coddle criminals the way the Brits do? Nah, they behead them.
Amazing that the Archbishop of Canterbury is calling for this, though.
Lehuster on February 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Read his comments in full. He is only advocating something on the scale of the orthodox jewish courts that already exist in Britain.
passingtramp on February 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Sounds to me like a damn good reason for them to stay in their own countries.
AZCoyote on February 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM
I don’t ever swear, but on this…all I can
saywrite is WTF?cat-scratch on February 7, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Hey, some people don’t ‘relate’ to our system here in the US, either.
We call them criminals.
Mr. Bingley on February 7, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Lehuster wrote:
The problem isn’t so much what Saudi Arabia does to criminals, the problem is WHAT they consider a crime.
bloggless on February 7, 2008 at 10:19 AM
This ought to get the ol’ Archbishop an invitation to George Bush’s final Eid-a-palooza dinner this year….
We’re heading down the same path. The Brits are just a few years ahead of us.
MrScribbler on February 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Lock and load, limeys. Lock and load.
Oh wait, you gave that one up a while ago.
Never mind.
MadisonConservative on February 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Wow…if this is happening the UK, all of Europe has a serious problem. And as for this line “He says Muslims should not have to choose between “the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty”.…I think I almost puked when I read that. If someone said that here, would that mean Muslims should have the option of choosing between the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and Shari’a Law? Scary stuff…
mattyj86 on February 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM
The military war against Al Qaeda is going well. But the second front at home sucks. The archbishop, Clinton and Obama all want to surrender while there’s still an enemy left to surrender to.
snaggletoothie on February 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM
I’m not sure why he doesn’t simply advocate the wholesale surrender to Islam.
I mean, it’s inevitable, right?
drjohn on February 7, 2008 at 10:27 AM
While England Slept…………….
………………it had its head chopped off with a hacksaw.
Shy Guy on February 7, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Can you imagine Hillary or Obama leading the free world in times like these?
May God have mercy.
flyfisher on February 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM
If a segment of your population is going underground with respect to the legal system, you ought to face that reality and see what you can do to bring them back where you can at least monitor them.
mycowardice on February 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM
As I noted the last time this moron opened his mouth (I think he announced something stupid like Christians don’t need to believe in Jesus’ resurrection, or something along those lines), this guy is a whacked out liberal, and I suspect it comes from his strong Catholicism that seems to guide him more than anything else. The Catholics here raged against me for mentioning that, because they didn’t look up this guy’s history.
RightWinged on February 7, 2008 at 10:33 AM
I go to Harry’s Place often to gauge the English pulse:
“Sack Rowan Williams, Disestablish the Church”
Chest_Rockwell on February 7, 2008 at 10:37 AM
He works for the Queen, correct? The last time I checked, she was the titular head of the Chirch of England. She should have him beheaded. How’s that for “shari’a”?
Gartrip on February 7, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Sorry, I meant “CHURCH” in the above post… (where’s my coffee?)
Gartrip on February 7, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Fred lost, Mitt seems finished, McCain seems to be the candidate. Accepting reality is hard and takes a little while.
There isn’t an England anymore. These stories telling us so ought to be believed. Best to get used to the idea. There is no W.European alliance with the US, unless and until the US becomes predominantly liberal socialists. And if that happens, then we too can ultimately surrender to the more powerful ideology of the Muslims.
JiangxiDad on February 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Isn’t one law for everyone and equal treatment under that law rather important?
Asher on February 7, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Gartrip beat me to it. The first Elizabeth, had her Archbishop recommended adopting Catholic canon, would have been dragged out of his church and had his neck severed as soon as the axe was sharpened. The current Elizabeth, however, is a member of a mooselimb loving, Israel hating, inbred German family.
MCPO Airdale on February 7, 2008 at 10:58 AM
The world is changing at breakneck speed and most of America is asleep. We’ve got fools crying about our health care system when they need to be asking themselves if our daughters and granddaughters will ever face a choice of putting on a burka or having their heads hacked off. So many Muslims have immigrated to Europe that in 25 years it will be largely unrecognizable as anything but a place on the map where Western Civilization used to exist.
America Alone indeed
flyfisher on February 7, 2008 at 10:59 AM
England is the birthplace of the best of Western political philosophy, as spelled out in our Declaration of Independence. It was a shame to see them turn away from that for socialism, and more so for Shari’a. I hope we can implement a pathway to citizenship for all Britons who would like to come here and escape the madness.
Nosferightu on February 7, 2008 at 11:07 AM
How much do they charge to pick lettuce?
flyfisher on February 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM
I grew up in England, and loved it as much as I did the land of my birth. But, thank God, I was born in the US.
doufree on February 7, 2008 at 11:17 AM
England is walking to the gallows, willingly.
Geronimo on February 7, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Where’s Cromwell when you need him?
The pace of change in Britain is breathtaking. If it continues like this something will snap.
The Queen is not long for this world. King Charles is likely to push just this sort of nonsense, giving the forces of dhimmitude huge vocal support. The Brits are running out of time. It’s later than they think.
Vote Sauron 08 on February 7, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Nationalism is a cure for this sort of thing, but when your country is internally divided by differing cultural loyalties and partisan politics I don’t see that having much hope. Since liberals are generally anti-nationalists (multiculturalists) I guess we’re in quite a bit of trouble from this sort of thing. When does it become safe to be openly against Islam, moderate or otherwise, especially to preserve the state? Manners will be the death of us.
blankminde on February 7, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Man. What a whack job.
tree hugging sister on February 7, 2008 at 11:23 AM
You know the great Winston Churchill is puking Scotch right about now.
Geronimo on February 7, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Asher,
In some cases we have laws that are not the same for different people. For example, we don’t treat minors the same. Or, judges might side more with a woman is some marital cases. Same with judges that might try to assist self represented litigants when the other side is well equipped. We also have different avenues to resolve some disputes (arbitration, etc.) So it’s a great principle, but in practice it is not possible to implement. If a segment of your community isn’t using your legal system to resolve disputes, it might be worth it to investigate the cause and what can be done to supervise that system.
For example, even if we allow for arbitration (forums to resolve disputes outside the official legal system), we still have rules to monitor it, etc.
mycowardice on February 7, 2008 at 11:25 AM
McCain ain’t gonna rush to surrender to the muslims.
funky chicken on February 7, 2008 at 11:26 AM
What a fine, upstanding Defender of the Faith he is! Rowan Williams? Rowan Atkinson could do a better job!
Frozen Tex on February 7, 2008 at 11:29 AM
I believe this is the same archbishop that basically doesn’t even believe in Christianity anymore.
gmbdds on February 7, 2008 at 11:29 AM
They won’t do it for less than 20 quid. But it doesn’t matter, because it will all be fried food after they get here.
Nosferightu on February 7, 2008 at 11:30 AM
What a fine, upstanding Defender of the Faith he is! Rowan Williams? Rowan Atkinson could do a better job!
Frozen Tex on February 7, 2008 at 11:29 AM
A good premise for Blackadder V.
Nosferightu on February 7, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Thank goodness we don’t have leaders in our country advocating that we ignore or change our laws and culture to accomodate an immigrant minority group that resists assimilation! Could you imagine? > sarcasmo apagar.
Dork B. on February 7, 2008 at 11:32 AM
The Church of England really needs a less idiotic leader.
Were they all blinded by the two letters and a period preceeding his name?
Dr. Pepper for Church of England. “At least he won’t commit heresy!”
BKennedy on February 7, 2008 at 11:36 AM
I have a folder where I save the best stories of Western civilization’s death by a thousand cuts. It takes about 45 seconds to scroll to the bottom. Seriously.
Canadian Infidel on February 7, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Can’t he be removed for heresy?
Spanglemaker on February 7, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Is there really moderate Islam? I have a sinking feeling they are moderateonly until their numbers are such that they can begin making demands.
Two years ago I got off the interstate near Rockford, Illinois, to fill up my tank. While I was standing at the pumps I watched a group of 8-10 young Muslim guys get out of some vans, spread blankets in the middle of the parking lot. They got on their knees and began bobbing for apples, or whatever they do. There was a large grass median, so it was obvious they had intentionally blocked the lone driveway, just daring other motorists to do something about it. I, being an insensitive rogue, cared little if it was tea-time in Mecca, so when I was through I pulled toward them and got on my horn. If a police car hadn’t arrived, I’m not sure how it would have turned out.
I’m with you, manners be damned.
flyfisher on February 7, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Didn’t he get made a Bishop or some such in the last episode of the first series? Then get murdered by accident?
Frozen Tex on February 7, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Let me see if I understand him… Muslims shouldn’t have to adhere to laws they don’t agree with, and should be allowed to adopt their own sharia. But not all sharia. Certainly not the sharia laws the government can’t tolerate. But having been granted the principle that minority groups can have their own laws, why shouldn’t Muslims press for the entire package under the propositon that there are government laws Muslims can’t tolerate?
NNtrancer on February 7, 2008 at 11:44 AM
How long till it is “Great Islamic Britain” or “The UIK”?
sko17 on February 7, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Yes, he was the Archbishop of Canterbury. His father appointed him to that position so he could take the Church’s land.
Nosferightu on February 7, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Would be a fantastic idea too, considering Atkinson in recent years has been one of the loudest voices protecting comedians who go after religion. Amazing how over here, most entertainers usually argue more about not offending those poor bomb-wearing sweethearts.
MadisonConservative on February 7, 2008 at 11:51 AM
IRGBNI - Islamic Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Frozen Tex on February 7, 2008 at 11:52 AM
The man has eaten one wafer too many…
TexasJew on February 7, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Are English churches state run like they are in continental Europe.
If so, gee, chalk one more up to the wonders of Socialism.
Pay attention American. Hillary and Obama are in lockstep with the Archbishop.
Because remember, it’s better to be liked than right in the world of Liberalism. It’s all about feeeeeeeeelings.
Montana on February 7, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I’m simply overwhelmed by how to express how disgusting Williams is. I’m an atheist, and not just any atheist but a fervent Nietzschean anti-Christian atheist, and I’m more willing to defend Christianity than the Archbishop of the Anglican Church. If you are going to bother to be the Archbishop of the Anglican Church, you should try to defend Christianity. It’s not your job to wave the white flag to Islam.
I have one suggestion to make to atheists. Make a list of what you think is good about Christianity, and, yes, there are good things. Compare what you find in that list to Islam and consider the political situation of the early 21st Century. Make some decisions about how you want the world to be and fight for it. I’d invite the crypto-atheist Archbishop of Canterbury to follow my plan, but I suspect his ideological blinders would prevent him from having a serious thought about the issues.
thuja on February 7, 2008 at 12:10 PM
“Dr. Rowan Williams told Radio 4’s World at One that the UK has to “face up to the fact” that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.”
Well, then I have a great idea: DEPORT THEM!!! They should be able to relate to that.
The ‘good Doctor’ needs a good Shrink.
Christine on February 7, 2008 at 12:21 PM
The Archidiot has something in common with with these cave people.
Bad facial hair and a deep rooted hatred for women.
Kini on February 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM
This is the perfect example of why Muslims do not belong in the West. Islam and Western society are completely incompatible.
End Muslim immigration.
2Brave2Bscared on February 7, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Dear England:
Despite your long love affair with liberty and freedom, your time has now ended. Like Rome and Greece, you will be remembered fondly, and history will be greatful for your contributions, but a crescent shaped moon is rising as your glorious sun sets your noble empire. For those citizens of Britain who love and value what you had, but have not the will nor the know-how to wage a losing battle to keep it, I say look to the west and join us in our own battle for freedom. Some of us are not foolish enough to believe that it can’t happen here as well, and we need your spirit in our own struggle for survival. So turn away from you dhimmi loving leaders and refuse to be a slave to Allah. Join those of us who still love freedom. Join the new Crusade!
Gartrip on February 7, 2008 at 12:54 PM
As a former Episcopalian, I’m a whole lot more former now.
silverfox on February 7, 2008 at 1:03 PM
That’s the second stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. By the same logic we should fly airliners into our remaining skyscrapers, or something.
“A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
Naif.
Akzed on February 7, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Thats great. We all learned as kids thr only way to stop a bully is to kick his teeth in. Being nice to a bully only causes them to be more aggressive and opressive.
Thanks for the memories Great Britian, sorry to see you go but that’s what happens when political correctness and beta males run your country.
Corey Wayne on February 7, 2008 at 1:26 PM
To be precise, he is 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lbs sack.
Akzed on February 7, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Conservative Brits need to emigrate to America and help counterbalance the Mexican invasion that McCain/Obama will invite.
NNtrancer on February 7, 2008 at 1:30 PM
The Archbishop’s support of the incremental use of Sharia law in Britain [knowing that the logical end will be the acceptance of Sharia law as the law under British jursiprudence - only proves what is already known, that Socialism eventually results in the elimination of the Judeo-Christian faith.
His support of Sharia is an indictment, not only of himself and his position in the Anglican church, but, also, of Socialism itself.
The battle in Britain will be between the ravages of Islam and Socialism.
And that battle will be waged in America - because of America’s headlong drive towards the Socialist Utopia and political correctness.
The point: America’s headlong journey towards the Socialist Utopia will lead to the reducing of the Judeo-Christian faith.
OhEssYouCowboys on February 7, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Should make for interesting TV! I wonder if they’ll have the stonings, beheadings, burning of Churches and Synagogues, mass slaughter of non-muslims, to name a few things, on international TV. To watch the end of a former friend, a former great nation, is heart rending. The thug/ killer evil muslim/islamists have ruined and destroyed everything they come in contact with. England will be no different. Great Britain, it surely was nice ‘noin ‘ya.
countywolf on February 7, 2008 at 2:03 PM
What “religious law” is there in Christianity that parallels Sharia? The guy is simply a dhimmi of the first order who sees that Europe is on a path toward Islamic domination and wants to curry favor with the enemy early.
labrat on February 7, 2008 at 2:07 PM
I never disliked Muslims until they started to push their asinine beliefs down our throats.
Just how do dog sh-t eaters get put in charge in Britain? Oh yeah, vote the socialists into power and the rest will come crawling out from under the rocks.
Note to self- Send that bast-rd two hams marinated in pig sh-t so he can have his friends over for dinner.
leanright on February 7, 2008 at 2:08 PM
The dude further up this thread who said Williams is only asking for what Orthodx Jews already have in Britain is wrong
Williams has spoken about this before, and he wants to essentially grant autonomy to any self-organized Islamic group who wants to hand out civil AND criminal punishments
He has implied that this ‘jurisdiction’ will in some cases extend to non-Muslims, which is bat-sh+t crazy and dangerous
If you crash your Lotus Europa into property owned by some mmosque, for example. THEY sue you in THEIR courts–and THEY charge you with a criminal offense……….
Janos Hunyadi on February 7, 2008 at 2:31 PM
The Archpussy of Canterbury needs to have his face slapped.
BL@KBIRD on February 7, 2008 at 2:31 PM
From the country that gave us the Magna Carta you now have some moron advocating the philosophy of a murderous 7th century pedofile. Goodbye, England, I knew you when. America Alone, indeed.
Zorg on February 7, 2008 at 2:36 PM
This is the Jewish Court that Williams referred to: http://www.theus.org.uk/the_united_synagogue/the_london_beth_din/about_us/
They rule over religious, family law and civil matters. Try to get up in arms across the board folks.
mofo on February 7, 2008 at 3:06 PM
God save the Queen? God save her subjects.
TroubledMonkey on February 7, 2008 at 3:48 PM
I sympathize with the anger, but that phrase crosses a line with me.
silverfox on February 7, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Seems the government have rejected the Archpussies suggestion and it is seen as a “rebuke”, a kind of metaphorical “slap in the face”.
BL@KBIRD on February 7, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Sharia is intellectual junk left over from the Middle Ages, a bad and horrible way to organize society as proven by the bad and horrible regimes which run themselves under Sharia. The central idea of Sharia that Muslim men have all the rights while women and non-Muslims have no rights they are bound to respect deserves our contempt. The Archbishop’s endorsement of a Sharia toehold in England is an assault on the civil rights guaranteed by the Anglophone democracies which has made them superior to the cruel Muslim tyrannies. The Archbishop’s surrender of democracy and his own religion to dark, bloody, and backward Islam is part of the reason why clergy no longer command respect.
Tantor on February 7, 2008 at 5:11 PM
This is Insane.
And we wonder why people think Christians are insane?
So either Christians are insane, or this Bishop is Christian in name only. In either case, this doesn’t help our case.
Lawrence on February 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM
I thought we called them politicians.
After all, a guy in a suit runs a Ponzi Scheme stealing money from young poor people and he is thrown in jail. Another guy runs a Ponzi Scheme stealing money from youndg poor people and he is praised as a statesman.
Tim Burton on February 7, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Beyond disturbing.
Righto. Bring out your prayer rugs.
Buttercup on February 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Lets seperate society into different classes and cultures and make people uneual under the law to create social cohesion.
What kind of bafoon thinks that actually will work?
Resolute on February 7, 2008 at 6:53 PM
Apartheid is back, but this time it’s progressive.
Beagle on February 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM
If he represented Catholicism he would still be a Catholic. He isn’t.
Never. But do it anyway.
Queen Elisabeth is the Defender of the Faith. But yeah I agree with you the man is pathetic.
I wouldn’t be so sure of that. All of these stories we keep hearing come out of England. The United Kingdom takes its cues from Westminster yes but that doesn’t mean that if Muslims took control of Parliament that everyone would bow down automatically. I think the Muslims could take England and probably Wales (mostly Methodists, in case anyone cares). Scotland? Possibly but I think no. Northern Ireland? No. Not a chance.
State-run churches predate socialism by centuries.
Sorry to see you go? What a rousing defense of Western civillisation. Churchillian in its pre-emptive defeatism.
I wouldn’t worry about it. He isn’t a Christian. He can say he is but that doesn’t make it so.
aengus on February 7, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Incidentally where is Tony737 to gloat and celebrate about this? The destruction of the Western world wouldn’t be complete without HA’s resident Muslim cheerleader laughing like a hyena.
aengus on February 7, 2008 at 7:23 PM
The Queen is Williams only superior in the hierarchy of the Church of England. She is the only one who can sack that defeatist twit.
chsw
chsw on February 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM
That scares the hell out of me.
America Alone was the most frightening book I have ever read, and sadly I think Mark Steyn will be shown to be right.
greekinfidel on February 7, 2008 at 11:26 PM
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