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Does it really matter that McCain might want us to shut up and go away or that he might get upset with us? I don’t think so. There are far too many conservative voices out there for him to simply disregard us. He will only be able to silence us and ignore us, if we withdraw from active participation in the democratic process and choose to be silent. If we do that then we will deserve to be ignored.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM

You mean “conservative voices” like yours that are telling me to shut up, sit down and vote for McCain even if I don’t like him? Yeah, it’s troubling me just a tad.

It’s sort of funny that you should mention McCain attempting to “silence and ignore us” with a straight face (I’m assuming you weren’t having a laughing fit when you actually typed it) considering McCain-Feingold. Seems to me that if he DOES silence and ignore us, we didn’t withdraw from the democratic process, we were ejected.

I simply can’t agree with you on illegal immigration being more important than the war on terror. Losing the war on terror will be far more damaging to us and the rest of the world than having 20-30 million illegals taking out our garbage and picking our fruits and vegetables. Illegal immigration is a real problem, but it does not rise to the level of potential catastrophic consequences that losing the war on terror does.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM

Border security is a fundamental part of national security. If you don’t think so, take the dead bolt off your back door and add it to the one already (I assume) on your front door. And then cancel your home insurance.

You want catastrophe? Imagine this village in your backyard. Then imagine how many villages we would have after 12 to 30 million invaders get “legalized”, to make room for the NEXT 30 million, after they see what a great deal is to be had by crossing our border illegally. You will never stop the flood if you keep rewarding illegal behavior. Never. No matter how high and wide a fence you build. And we should build the fence!

BTW, here is the solution; working just fine in four states so far.

We have to take off our shoes to board airplanes. The threat of Dubai managing our ports caused a real firestorm. It is insane to think that we are secure by guarding two of the three doors to get into our country. Remember this?

For over two years, McCain has insisted on REWARDING foreign invaders (permanent residency after only a one business day to complete background and health checks on 12 to 30 million Z visa applicants) rather than secure our border to protect his own constituents. He has held hostage our national security to get his way on rewarding illegal behavior, thereby encouraging more illegal behavior in the future.

He said on Russert that he would sign the same bill. He has not learned his lesson. He still wants to sell out our country.

I trust Mitt to listen to his military advisors on WOT. I trust McCain to listen to Juan Hernandez on border security.

Your example illustrates exactly why we can’t become complacent even when Republicans are running things. Intense lobbying is still needed no matter who is in charge. Spending other peoples money is an addicting thing. Few can resist the urge to do this after they settle in for a while. We can make a difference, if we hammer our messages home. We seem to be getting things through to them on things like more accountability with earmarks. We simply need to keep at it and stay alert to rising problems. Consistent pressure usually wins out in the long run, if we are lobbying for things that connect with the dormant conservative values that exist in most Americans.

You need to work on your disaster prevention skills. We don’t need to let them happen.

Bikerken:

McCain is a hawk on the war on terror. The fact that he may allow more legal options for captured terrorist doesn’t change that. He will still make sure that most of them are killed on the battlefield. Although I don’t agree with his stance on granting these terrorists more legal rights, it is not a fatal flaw when it comes to fighting and winning the war on terror.

Your claim that we can win by losing is absurd. Show me where this has worked for us in the past.

NuclearPhysicist

Compare spending under Clinton to spending under Bush, compare the Republican in congress who blocked Clinton’s attempts at spending increases, but walked where Bush led.

We’re talking mostly the same Congress critters, but with a Republican pushing liberal actions, they’ll agree. With a Democrat pushing comparable actions, they’ll balk and fight.

If this doesn’t work as an “example”, explain why the same Republicans who blocked HillaryCare and Clinton’s attempted spending hikes were willing to push liberal legislation under Bush.

Based on what I’ve seen recently, your new conservative party will be pretty small and mostly irrelevant. Good luck with that. As a lifelong conservative, I’ll stay put and work for change within the party. I’ll take the bad with the good and work to make things better. I’ll work on my people skills and try to find out how we can convince more Americans to support the conservative values that lie dormant within them. I might make a difference. It’s unlikely that you will.

NuclearPhysicist on January 31, 2008 at 1:38 PM

That is my point… A vote for McCain IS a vote for what you fear. I simply believe (as do thousands of others) that it’s best if that “disastrous liberal leadership” is accompanied by a President with a “D” by her name in the history books as opposed to an “R”.

I think we’re done here. Time to move to a new thread.

No, McCain will not govern like a conservative. But, he will be a hawk in the war on terror. We will find more common ground with him than with the alternatives. But, we will have to fight like h*ll to keep liberal legislation from showing up on his desk. We stopped the immigration package under Bush. We will have the same ability to stop similar legislation under a President McCain.

If conservatives like you have no faith in our ability to stop the legislation before it gets to the President’s desk, then you have already thrown in the towel. So, why let the Democrats win? If illegal immigration is really such a lost cause under McCain then it is also a lost cause under the Democrats. Why not take what you can get with a President McCain and declare victory with a better chance of winning the war on terror?

I simply can’t agree with you on illegal immigration being more important than the war on terror. Losing the war on terror will be far more damaging to us and the rest of the world than having 20-30 million illegals taking out our garbage and picking our fruits and vegetables. Illegal immigration is a real problem, but it does not rise to the level of potential catastrophic consequences that losing the war on terror does.

kcd on January 31, 2008 at 1:42 PM

a huge enema to flush all the s*** rinos out once and for all . If that means we have to put up with 4 years of a dimi then so be it.

We won in 1980, because we had a charismatic candidate, not because conservatives stayed home in 1976. Staying home in 1976 brought us Carter and a nightmarish legacy that is still haunting us. We won in 1994 because the American people became tired of the Democrat approach to running the country and because we had charismatic Republican leaders that persuaded them to give the Republicans a chance (too bad that they blew it). Staying home in 1992 brought us 4 years of Clinton and a liberal foreign policy that has cost us dearly. Staying home in 1996 brought us another 4 years of Clinton filled with scandal and lax federal oversight. We won in 2000 because Gore was a bore and Bush was a good campaigner. The country would be far better off today, if we had showed up in 1976, 1992, and 1996 and actively moved the country away from disaster with our imperfect yet more responsible candidates. Many of the problems that we have today are with us because many of us stayed home rather than support our admittedly uninspiring candidates. I stand by the approach that I have outlined above. You are free to disagree and not vote for the Republican Presidential candidate. Just don’t expect me to agree to another 4-8 years of disastrous liberal leadership under the Democrats. I’ve been there and done that. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.

The idea that Scarborough has any credibility is foolishness.

The guy is a politcal mercenary

If too many conservatives continue to bicker and stay home in November, we will not get a repeat of ‘94. What we will get is more Democrats and surrender to the terrorists. If conservatives really care about the future direction of this country, they need to learn how to set aside their differences with the other factions of their party and work toward stopping the further demise of this nation. McCain will work with us in many areas. I can’t say the same for either Clinton or Obama. Inaction by conservatives will only bring certain defeat. We win by pro-actively electing our Party’s candidates and then vigorously holding them accountable to more conservative standards. Moving the country in a more conservative direction is a long struggle that will take consistent effort over many years or perhaps decades. It will never happen if we withdraw and let the other guys win.

Mark Mckinnon who is Mac’s ad guy

Right. And Yvette Lozano’s boss.

I like McKinnon, I worked with him on some estate tax reform stuff about a decade ago. But there’s hardly anyone I’d put up to the job of fighting the MSM tide once they rally ’round their candidate (who, let’s not kid ourselves, is not McCain).

What’s most impressive is how long, yet still incomplete, the list of grievances is and how effortlessly he calls it up from memory. A testament, surely, to how deeply McCain’s betrayals have seeped into the conservative consciousness. VDH is doing his best to rehabilitate Maverick for the sake of the war, but he’d be better off waiting until we’ve reconciled ourselves to our fate before trying this. At this stage he’s probably alienating more readers than he’s converting.

AllahPundit

I haven’t even watched the video; why bother? Allah’s first paragraph goes right to the HotAir Hall of Fame for its sheer perfection.

Joe Scarborough?! What the hell does he know about conservatism? This is apparently even worse than I thought, if that’s possible.

I am not advocating that we nominate/vote for McCain in the primaries. If possible, we should all work to get Romney the nomination. However, if this strategy fails, we need to implement Plan B as stated above.

Does it really matter that McCain might want us to shut up and go away or that he might get upset with us? I don’t think so. There are far too many conservative voices out there for him to simply disregard us. He will only be able to silence us and ignore us, if we withdraw from active participation in the democratic process and choose to be silent. If we do that then we will deserve to be ignored.